March 23, 2022

Midweek Mention... Mulholland Drive

Midweek Mention... Mulholland Drive
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MULHOLLAND DRIVE is director David Lynch's 2001 surrealist Hollywood noir masterpiece. Made as a pilot for a tv show that never happened, is it more than a series of barely connected parts with extra bits of weirdness thrown in for weirds sake? Multiple think pieces and online theories would vehemently disagree with that assessment but even if that disconnected peculiarity is all there is, that's still a lot to enjoy. Funny and violent and creepy but without conventional story-telling, this is potentially the ultimate version of the emperors new clothes with scenes involving seemingly random identity switching, stories that are setup and never completed or expanded upon, or that don’t tie in to other scenes in noticeable ways, random song and dance routines, baffling, unexpected and unexplainable plot twists and a reading of the movie that basically says at multiple points “it was all a dream”. What connects the amnesiac Rita who is struggling to work out why she was almost killed, why she has a bag of money and a mysterious blue key with a secret conspiracy by shadowy forces to recast a Hollywood movie, a bungling hitman and a monstrous figure behind Winkie's diner? You decide. No literally you do, David Lynch isn't saying.


Mulholland Drive


This is part three of three of our David Lynch retrospective. Yeah, I'm gonna call it that. We watched mole Holland drive, which I was very excited for. Pete to watch, but he could make it, but how he very gallantly stepped in. And shots fired early doors in the WhatsApp group.

Was a bit the head scratcher for you. right. right. Outta the gate

Howie: right out the gate. I was, I was immediately thinking, am I stupid? And I was worried that it was just gonna to completely pass me by. So we'll go into the review of it, but I was thrown on sky store, it said 20th year reissue. I thought, well, it must be a pretty D and I read a little, little bit of a read.

I didn't wanna go into the plot. I didn't wanna spoil it. And it said iconic film, top lists. I went. Cool. Let's just, let's just see. I've never heard of it. And there was a trailer which didn't really spoil anything.

Reegs: Have you seen any David Lynch movies before we did blue velvet? You weren't

Howie: No, I wasn't. No.

Reegs: you seen that?

Howie: No, I don't think I have.. So. I, I was aware that once he said Lynch, there's gonna be some surreal stuff.

And also I linked it to twin peaks, which I've never seen.

Sidey: It's definitely linked to twin peaks.

Howie: Yes. And I, I don't from the limited clips that I've seen of twin peaks, I was aware of that. Very strange midget.

Sidey: Yeah. Who's not a Midge in this.

Howie: Yeah. You're gonna have to really help me through this because. I think a lot of it was lost on me because it's, I, I suspect once you explain it to me, I'll get it better.

Reegs: Let, let

Sidey: we'll get into it. But I don't think

  1. It's a surrealist it's described as a surrealist Neo.


Okay. And the narrative of the plot is kind of all over the place in the sense that nothing's wrapped up in a nice, neat bow for you. It's definitely there for your interpretation or. Whatever theories you want to come up with and that, and we'll talk about later, but There are about a billion theories about what exactly is going on with this film. It's gonna be sort of difficult to walk through the entire plot step by step, but I think we should definitely talk about some key moments that happen. but Certainly how it starts, because there's, there's various things even just short, little quick clips of things that happen in the movie that are.

Almost thrown away, but are probably incredibly significant. Okay. Okay. So it starts off the very opening gambit


Dancing is a kind, is a jitter bug competition,

I believe. And it is Naomi Watts's character.


Reegs: Mm Betty,

Sidey: Betty slash



Howie: Okay. Yeah. See, go on.

Sidey: I think what's happened is she has won this competition and you see her and I think it's her folks.

She's smiling and celebrate. Do you actually see her get presented with a trophy? I can't quite remember, but she certainly seems to have won this competition. and that propels her onto wanting a life of.

stardom and she's gonna pursue a career in acting. So the next,

Reegs: well we get, then we get a few scenes of a red blanket and some

Sidey: yes. And I think this is one of these things

Reegs: it's like being with Howie.

Sidey: I think this is one of these things that you could just see as some throwaway nonsense. But I think that one is potentially very significant

Reegs: mm-hmm

Sidey: after that is where we go to. The other lady who becomes known as Rita


In a car in a, in a limousine,

She's a sole passenger of this limousine and is going long mile Holland drive. And the passenger turns around there's some money in a bag.

Reegs: Yeah.

Sidey: And the passenger turns around with a gun. And we're also, it's interspersed with some noise of a, a sort of like a drag race of street race going on some really fucking loud, annoying kids.

And then you get head on collision. So the car that R is in,

Howie: which is parked up,

Reegs: it's very unexpected

Sidey: it.

  1. And it's

Reegs: It's not telegraphed at all.

Sidey: smash shits head on into one of the cars with all the kids in it. And it's kind of presented, not in a. Usual Hollywood kind of crash There's not like a million flips of the car going down a bang Orth like that.

It just is a, like a, pretty,

Reegs: it's not even typical Lynch and dreamlike stuff.

It's kind of just presented very matter of factly. This is a thing that happened.

Sidey: Yeah. She survives. No one else survives the crash and she sort of crawls away, obviously disorientated and bat and bruised, but nothing.

other than that physically apparently wrong with her. So she, I guess you flees the scene and ends up,

Reegs: well, she's back at an apartment.

Isn't she just sneaks

Sidey: into she just sees an apartment, become vacant. She sees a lady leave and she goes in and just sort of goes to sleep on the floor.

Yeah. And and things start to get weird, Diane.


sorry, is at the airport. She's on her way to LA. And she's obviously been sat with these an elderly couple who have sort of chap around her, on her journey. And it's all very, admirable, very nice. And they say, you know, wish you all the bear. She said, I always lovely to speak to meet you and blah, blah.

And then the two old people get in the cab and just have this fucking weird grin on

their face.

And the old lady pats the man on the knee and you're thinking, what the fuck is there? So what's going

Howie: weird, the weird effect of the face is smiling reminded me of black, old sun


Sidey: Yeah. It Is like

Reegs: He he did it a few times. He did it in inland empire. I posted a tweet from that today in the,

Howie: So what's the, is there a reason for that? Is it just to show that people are fake? See, this is where my wife and I were talking. Joe's like, this is like showing you that. Hollywood is full of fake people who are just grinning in ain for the sake of it.

Is that what it's supposed to be?

Sidey: If I, I think a lot of this stuff is if that's what you take out of it. then that's, That's what it is. He will never say he will never sit down and I've watched interviews with him where people just say, oh, what's this. And he just says, the film is the film. And

Howie: Is it a, is that a copout to say that though?

Sidey: I

don't think so. Because when a director has as much success as he's had, or has as many films out as he has. , you should know what you are, what you are likely to expect, that, you know, it wouldn't surprise me when I watch Mahol and drive, having been a fan of twin peak.

And other top of that, that the film is like this

Reegs: Yeah,

Sidey: he's, he's known

Reegs: you forgive him. Right? I was thinking about this and this film, you forgive him for like setting up all these really cool things that really never pay off or just, or if they do pay off, pay off in really bizarre and, and unconnected, you know, he's not interested in storytelling and you forgive him that because he's David Lynch in a way that you wouldn't other directors for, for the same crimes, I think.

Yeah. He's a sort of litmus test for pretension. This one. It's an interesting.

Sidey: so you probably in that, in that sense, you'll probably know whether you're gonna like this film


into it, If, because if you don't like that sort of thing, it's exactly what you're gonna get it. So


Howie: think I

Sidey: to be aware of that going into it, but it, it like what, what you are saying there. if that's the meaning. No, one's, he's not gonna go and say no, you're wrong. He's gonna say great. You took something from it That is your meaning, and that's absolutely right for you.

Howie: So he looking at it like a piece of art.

Exactly. Yeah. So I think where the struggle comes in for someone like me, who's a conve. This sounds very patronizing, a conventional film viewer. I, I need a structure to it. I need line clear lines of where somethings potentially going and the, but, but I don't have a problem with a slightly open ended ending.

Yeah. Where you can interpret. Yeah. But this

Reegs: just open

Howie: No, this is the whole thing is it seems like it, it jumps a lot.


of the nature of the story, because there's, it's almost like a pulp. See, again, I relate to a, a, a modernish film that I can relate to time jumps, like pulp fiction, where you've got stop, start, stop, start, stop, start.

And again, that's my interpretation of how it goes through. I just struck good with that. with that level of understanding. Absolutely. Yeah. The fact that you take from every part of it, what you want, for some reason, the part that I really did think, oh, this is actually ramping up is actually going quite well.

Is when she went to the audition and, and when, and she did that scene with this, the actor, I thought, oh, this is slightly more conventional a film, and I can see, maybe she's all screwed up. And she understands actually how Hollywood works, but it then went. Again, mental. So that's where my problems with it go, especially when she walked


Reegs: Yeah. It's a great scene

Sidey: You have the elderly couple going away in the car, smiling as if they've just done something or something.

And to me, it was just like, put me on edge as say

something something's

not right.


Reegs: It's the idea of shadowy, unexplained forces, manipulating events, you know? And that comes through the whole movie.

Howie: Oh, of course. Especially the casting.

Reegs: Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Howie: we go there, all lots of,

Reegs: so anyway, Betty, Betty ends up back at the apartment. I can't remember how she meets.

Sidey: She, she meets the um


Yeah. Who, who shows her the apartment? Kind of let's just get on with it. And Betty meets


Reegs: She's calling herself Rita after the poster of Rita Hayworth,

Sidey: she's in the

Reegs: then then, then we go to it's unconnected, but we go to a diner wing keys.


And there's a guy it's I forgot to get his name. Did you get his, the actor's name?

He's really recognizable. He's telling another guy about a dream he had it's more a nightmare.

Howie: Oh yes. Yeah.

Reegs: He's saying it's the second time I've had this dream. They're both the same. You are in the diner with me.

You're standing over there. I'm scared in the dream. You are scared as well. And he says in the dream, he, he. Talks about a man at the back of the D and he can see his face through the

Sidey: He's making it all happen.

Reegs: Yeah. He says he looks terrified. He says, I hope I can never see that face outside of the dream.

So anyway, it's fucking spooky and weird.

Sidey: What's what I like about this scene is it's two people having a conversation. And traditionally, I guess you would just have a camera in a fixed point, probably behind someone's shoulder, looking at the other one and vice versa come the other way. So you would just have a fixed, you know, view of, but here the camera is fluid.

It's, it's almost handheld. It's kind of floating around makes the scene very uneasy. You, you kind of

Reegs: it's intimate, isn't it. You, part of the

Sidey: conversation Other ways you might have the Dutch angle, Dutch rather law to make things look slightly uneasy here. The camera's moving around, which you normally wouldn't get in a conversation like that.

And it,


just puts everything slightly ill at ease.

Reegs: and then you get, and it continues because there's a load of different styles going on on here because when they go outside to investigate cuz the guy goes and stands where he does in the dream, the

Sidey: he goes, to pay doesn't. He, he goes to pay the bill

Reegs: to pay and he's

Sidey: he's like shit that's That was where you were in the dream.

Reegs: And then when they go outside, you get these point of view shots. First at the top of the stairs, then at the Bo like on the middle of the stairs, then shots looking back at them, they're coming down and the tension is ramping up. They're going towards the corner, the dumpster there's graffiti on the wall.

It says WWF lo and just as he gets to the corner, this creature, a woman matted hair, and very like sot all over her face comes out. You see her for maybe

Sidey: the score's been building.

It's ratcheted,

right up,

Reegs: right up. It's pounding and, and and he looks at her and then he just goes unconscious, like backwards.


Sidey: I assumed he died.

Reegs: Yeah.

Howie: assume that's

Reegs: he goes to the floor and she disappears. You, you don't, I mean, she's on screen for a second.

Sidey: one Second. Tops. Yeah.

Howie: Now this. Entire era, this entire

Reegs: it's a great scene. You dunno what the fuck is going on, but it's brilliant

Howie: was completely ruined for a bizarre aesthetic reason.

Now this is a proper first world problem. I rented it in HD, cuz that was the only option my I've got this super du Perelli that zoos up everything mm-hmm and it turns it into, it tries to make, could scaled up to eight K or something DF. It made it look like. a film student with a camcorder it's so high end TVs now.

When they

Sidey: the up

Reegs: Galing

Howie: upscaling, it made that look like some film student had got a Sony old school, Sony camcorder, and it was like, it kind of blurred a little and it looked like a home video.

and I was like, watching it go, it just looks really crap. And, but all the tension and the fact that the, the, and I, I didn't really have context for why he was doing this.

No, why he was saying

Reegs: course you didn't. No.

Howie: and again, and it did freak at the end with that bloody Chrome. She just went, eh, I just popped out and then fucked off again. And he, I

Reegs: it's more his reaction.

Howie: I assumed he died, but it was just, that's just a weird aesthetic that I'd never really noticed before he does it with old TV shows on like bizarrely.

I watched the, a team the other day and it makes it look really, really crap and amateur, even though you got, oh, it's they've Zed up to HD. Yeah, it looks crap. So it's unintentional. One of that, what I was gonna say was. I can't remember now, because again, the film was so confusing. Did we ever see those two ever again in the rest

Sidey: saw, You see the, the guy who died,

Reegs: you see Theron again,

Sidey: You see,

Howie: you see Theron

Sidey: You see him in the diner again, and you see her at the end. Okay. Then now we're introduced to the film director.

Reegs: Well before that though, don't we get, there's like a sequence of picking up phones and saying things into phones, putting down phones

Howie: It's the math, it's the dwarf. Dude, isn't it. Who's not a

Reegs: yeah. There's like phones

Sidey: Yeah. There's some, there's something about the,

the studio system, I assume this was you just see the back of some big fat guy's head and he's on the phone and it's the dwarf guy from, I think he's called the

man from the other place in trim peaks, but he's not a dwarf here.

He's like in ACOM as normal.

He he sat in a chair and he seems to have. Long legs and whatever. It's very, but it's, it's so jarring when you know him from something else. And then you see, you're presented with him, like completely different. And he barely asked the word in the film, but he's weirdly intimidating because he's obviously in charge.

Howie: He he's like in a soundproofed room or

Sidey: where the guy just,

Howie: yeah,

Sidey: loves

these like single rim things where people and the color red always appears as well.

So there's something going on with the studio system and they're in control of something. And then we meet the film director and he's being told

Reegs: Adam, he looks suspiciously like Steven Soderberg

Sidey: He does actually. Yeah. Yeah,

Howie: he's just in he's

Reegs: Adam. K Kesher it's

Howie: Louis through's cousin, Justin

Reegs: through. Yeah.

Sidey: He's it seems like he's been summoned to a meeting about a casting issue and he is told two guys walk in and they they're obviously super intimidating. And one of the guys says.

I've found this amazing coffee for you.

Howie: Oh Yeah.

Sidey: thing that goes on about the coffee and that the guy that has the coffee that's Angelo battlement

Who does the score. He, he spits, it. he, he whispers about napkin. And then when he tastes the espresso, he

just sort of spits, but he spits it just lets it pour out his mouth,

Reegs: out of his mouth.

Howie: all over his face and

Sidey: it's disgusting. And then they just bring out one of those sort of classic headshot, Hollywood headshots of a, of an actress.

And they say, this is the girl. And the film director, dude's just like, what the fuck is this? Like, no, it's not,

know I'm in control of this picture. That's not the fucking girl. And they're like,

is the girl.

this is the girl. And you kind of think don't mess with these guys. They seem


Reegs: it's so weird. It's it's unexplained what their motivation is or what their plan is. It's just this shadowy, like,

Howie: I assume they were mafia,

Sidey: but yeah, they're supposed to be gangsters. Yeah, definitely. So the news goes back to the man from the other place. Who's now not the man for other place. And he just utters like one word I think. And He, he, the film director smashes up someone's


The, the, the driver. is sat in the car and he smashes up with his golf club that He carries around with him

Reegs: When he gets back, he goes back to his house.


Howie: And Billy Ray Cyrus, his

Reegs: wife in bed with the pool. Boy, Jean who's played by the most incredible Malled GOE, Billy Ray Iris. And he says he says to him, just forget you saw it. It's better. That way. the first thing he says to him. He grabs her and get some pink paint

Sidey: from the damage

Reegs: he?

And he's just, would that permanently damage it, he pause it all

Sidey: it seems a bit of a trivial thing to do. I Probably would've just,

Howie: I

thought his shirt looked quite cool after it was cold in pink paint.

Sidey: He probably pay a lot of money for

Reegs: virtually the only character in this that is like relatable in any way. Like acts like a real human being because when he later has to go and talk to the cowboy, is that next that's kind of next

Sidey: me. Yeah. to

Howie: Yeah. What the fuck? This

Reegs: guy in the cowboy hat who in a deserted corral.

Howie: and it's got the, the light comes on and all this shit and

Reegs: Yeah.

Sidey: Do you know the actor, the actor's name who played the cowboy?

Reegs: I looked it up today, but I've already forgotten

Sidey: Monty Montgomery.

That's Monty, Monty that's.

Reegs: and he's the one again? He's like, you know, you've got a higher Camilla.

I think they, they say this time Camilla. And if you do what you're told, you'll see me one more time. And if you don't do, you'll see me two more times. And the, and the director is kind of like, he got that right. Combination of being kind of scared, but also like what the fuck is going on.

Sidey: because it is a guy in full cowboy gear,

Reegs: Yeah. But he's quite menacing. Yeah. Even though he looks a bit of a Dick

Sidey: he's

it's like, I'm gonna, you're gonna die. Like,

I'm gonna kill

you. I've obviously been hit. I'm. been brought out here to intimidate you.

Reegs: Yeah.

Sidey: And so he does reluctantly. He says, yes, this is the girl thingy some sort I dunno what it was. There's a scene going on. And he, he reluctantly agrees

to take her on.

Reegs: Yeah.

Yeah Then we get the hit men, right. This like the blonde guy is so weird.

Sidey: into a comedy.

Reegs: Yeah. Just turns into comedy. There's like a hit man. He's laughing away with he's talking about the guy with long hair who features in this week's movie as well, by the way, love and mercy.

So but he, they're talking about a funny story about a car accident and then the blonde guy suddenly looks interested at the desk and he's like, or he says that, I think he says, that's, Ed's famous black book. And the other guy says, it's the history of the world in phone numbers.

Sidey: okay.

Reegs: And then the blonde guy pulls out a gun, shoots him, and then he's trying to make it look like he shot himself and he's cleaning the gun, putting it in his hand and he shoots through the wall and

Sidey: He just,

Reegs: just hear this woman go. Ah, ah, like, so he goes into the office next door

Sidey: something bit me, real bad.

Reegs: bit me, something bit me.

They have this, like, she, she fights for her life when they have a, a, a good SCR and he trips over the, the cables, doesn't he? And he ends up having to like drag her back. And then he sees a janitor. As he's dragging her back,

Sidey: me. He's like

Reegs: to kill them all.

Sidey: and

Reegs: just mental. And then he, then the vacuum clean is going and he's like, I dunno what he was thinking he was gonna do.

He shoots it. And then the fire alarm goes off. He looks really pissed off. So he escapes down the fire escape. Again, just like tonally jarring to what you've just

Sidey: Yeah. Yeah.

Reegs: You know, it is really funny. It's yeah, it's kind of, all of these scenes are like, they're all like in search of their own movies.

That's what I feel about watching a David Lynch thing.

Sidey: Well,

I dunno if you wanna mention this now, but this wasn't a movie.

Reegs: Yeah, exactly. And, and I think it really shows,

Sidey: I think, I think it might be true to say that the straight story was the last film he made that was made set out to be a movie.

This was a pilot for a TV series It was supposed to be

a sort of follow on from trim peaks. Rita's character was gonna be Audrey horn from trim peaks. That'll get Pete interested. So it. So when it, if you, if it sounds like it feels a bit like there's different episodes, that there's

probably a lot of truth to that.

Yeah, yeah,

Reegs: yeah, absolutely.

Howie: I think it's now the casting moment that I said the awkward,

Reegs: it's a great scene

Howie: and, and yeah, it is a great scene.

Reegs: We'd already seen her practicing the speech and she'd done it in a very different way, a much more playful and jovial type way. And when she goes in with her this is co-star. Yeah. Is it re it's not it's like a really established actor, but he's kind of sleazy.

Sidey: He's a perf yeah. He's in

Howie: It's really? Yeah. He's Pern and awful,

Reegs: But she changes the context of what she you'd already seen her do. This. It's a great scene because this is the one that I always think when people say Lynch, doesn't get performances out of it, that his actors, well, this is the scene where he really does.

Howie: She, she turns the tables on him by being. Almost the alpha in this love scene and he's

Sidey: of fem fatal.

Howie: yeah. And he's completely wrapped up in her, in this audition and all of them are just, all of the casting crew are just like jaw drop. What is going on here, but it's it is painful and it eludes to the fact of what actually goes on at casting agencies.

Sidey: Yeah.


Reegs: And what is that Howie?

What videos have you seen?

Howie: I dunno, there's a lot of taxis that take them there.

Sidey: All the, while this is going on, they, they. trying, because Rita has lost her memory. She has no recollection of why she's got to where she is and what happened.

And she's sort of starting to piece it together and they're trying to. Work together in a sort of detective way


to figure out exactly what happened that night with the, with the car accident. And they

end up,

Reegs: well, she's got a blue key in her purse as well. Hasn't she? So it's you Don, they don't know what that is for or.

Sidey: Neither do we . But Anyway. Is it now when they go to the, the nightclub?

Reegs: Well, they, they, they have a little lesbian love off before they go to the club.

Sidey: Yeah. There there's some

Howie: which I thought was, despite all it's pretty pretensive is GRAT and not necessary. I didn't think it well, it isn't, it isn't obviously

Sidey: very necessary.

Reegs: It's fairly, it's not gr is it graphic? It's pretty male gazey. I would say the lesbian, like love affair. It's kind of like soft core pornography kind of almost in a way, but you know,

Howie: I don't think, again, it fit, it just put the whole film, being crazy all over. It didn't fit in with everything. It seemed like it

Sidey: well, I would disagree that

Howie: okay.

Reegs: Well it does. Is it gonna fit in better with what happens next? Because they go to a theater called club Sencio.

Howie: this was the mental bit Sal.

Reegs: So a guy comes on stage and he starts saying, there's no band. Is he saying it in different? He's saying it in different languages. French, I think Spanish, maybe. I'm not sure he's saying there's no band, it's a tape recording. If you, if you want to, you can hear a clarinet and then a clarinet plays. Uh And then a guy comes out in a white suit and he's playing the trumpet and then it reveals that he's not playing the trumpet that vocals keep carrying on.

Sidey: very milli van.


Reegs: he keeps saying everything is recorded. There is no band. Life itself is like this. There is no orchestra, everything is an illusion. And then he summons thunder inside. Of course. Yeah. And Betty starts shaking in her chair and then he disappears in blue smoke, looking all demonic. And then a guy comes out with an incredible mustache and a red suit

Sidey: Mm-hmm

Reegs: and he introduces Rebecca Del Rio

Sidey: Yeah.

Reegs: and she sings this beautiful, beautiful live song, except she doesn't because she passes out towards the end of it.

And then Betty discovers a blue box in her purse.

Sidey: Yeah.

Howie: This is that that whole scene was lost on me.

Yeah. exactly.

Reegs: Of course it was. Well, I mean, that is, I've just described what happened. There's no context for any of that. They just go to this club, although all the whole life is a, your dream and an illusion.

You know, if you haven't had it hammered through the subtext of what's already going on that he's literally telling you it. Oh well now this is such a cool scene because

well, this, they go back to the apartment with the box

Sidey: and the key. Yeah.


Reegs: this is a really cool scene. They go back to Rita's apartment and She's now got the blue box that was in her purse. It's like the cube out of hell razor. I can't remember what they call it. It's like just a perfect blue box. Yeah. And she and Rita, they go back to Rita's apartment. They go in Betty places, the blue box on the bed, and the camera moves past Betty to Rita as she gets a hat box out of the closet.

And then it's just a really quick shot, but it follows back as places, the hat box on the bed. But. Betty's gone. And then a second later reader notices and looks around. It's like we, Betty has just completely disappeared in the time that it took the camera to look at the hat box and come back. And she kind of calls for her, looks around the apartment.

I don't know wherever then. So she's now got the blue box and the blue key and she takes the blue key and she's sort unfolds. It unlocks, it takes the key out.


the box it's black inside and we zoom directly into the box. Then the box falls to the floor and the apartment is empty.

Sidey: Yeah,

There we go. What'd you make of that

Reegs: house?

Howie: I have no idea. What was, I, I dunno what to make of it. And this is why I felt like I was thick or something. I

Reegs: Don't feel like you're thick. It's not don't

Howie: I was going

Reegs: enjoy it, man. It's weird.

Howie: but I struggled to, yeah.

Reegs: maybe you're not engaged with it. And I can totally understand that. I just enjoyed the sort of absurdity of it.

It's not traditional filmmaking

Howie: And I think that's probably my problem. I couldn't cope with the absurdity of it.

Cause I thought it was people trying to be, I thought it was. Contrived and people trying to be clever and look how clever we are. And

Reegs: I think that's okay to think that,

Howie: and, and I'm not discrediting because there were parts that I bizarrely really enjoyed.

Reegs: Mm-hmm exactly.

Howie: But there were bits. I was just like, I don't understand.

I don't understand. I wish I could, but I don't get it. I'm being really thick and Josephine, my wife was watching it and she, she was saying exactly what you guys are saying. She was like, you just have to interpret it the way you think it might be a. And then she would say, but I think it's probably this, that or the other.

And I'd go. I don't, I dunno,

Reegs: I barely interpret it at all. To be honest, I just watch it and enjoy the freaky weirdness of what I'm watching literally happening in that moment. You know, I read all the interpretations and I think great. Good for you.

You know, for me, I don't know. I don't have, it doesn't have any big symbolism for me. It's just weird. And I like you

Sidey: the film comes back. After the opening of the box and Betty is now Diane.

Reegs: Yeah.

Sidey: And Rita is now Camilla.

So she's Camilla from the headshot before

albeit looks different because the original Camilla is


from home and away.


who was in triangle.

Yeah. So the identities have now completely changed. Yeah. When do we get the bit of the, the corpse on the bed?

Howie: They

Sidey: is that now?

Howie: Yes, I think it is

Sidey: They go to see someone, and she says,

Howie: we've

Sidey: we swap apartments, Fucking weird. So they go in and the, is it, the police are after Camilla


she screams that the sound is, is changed and.

When they see this, this Corps's obviously been in the bed for a long time. And Camilla screams, but you don't hear her. Yeah. di I don't remember everyone's name Diane is trying to keep her quiet because they're they're sort of on the run.

Reegs: Yes. Because of the car crash at the beginning. Yeah. Right.

Sidey: They go to a party.

Howie: yeah, they go, they go to she

Reegs: now who get identity switched as well. Isn't there because one of the hit men is also somebody at the diner later when they go to Winkey. Oh, anyway,

Howie: there we go. She goes to pay the Hitman to kill


other reader. And then there's. And then she goes to a party. The reason she wants to kill her is because they went to a party together. She's in love with her and she introduces her to her director, boyfriend, and they just play it out in front of her and basically tease her. they sort of SNO and love each other. And

Sidey: yeah. So Camilla is in a relationship with


who is the film director and he is casting her. So she is. a, She is actually a successful actress and Diane is in love with her and is also

incredibly jealous of her success because she is actually a struggling actress in this reality, that we are being presented with now, so things have changed a lot.

And so then we go to the diner where she hands over money I. and the headshot. And this is the girl.

Reegs: Yeah.

Sidey: That those words we've heard quite a lot. She doesn't actually say I want her killed. She doesn't, we're not explicitly that it's I left open ended.

but you assume.


She wants her to be to

get killed. Yeah. She's

having, she's paying for a hit. Yeah. For it committed to be off. Yeah. Although it doesn't explicitly say that,

Reegs: And that's when he tells her that you'll, you'll find a blue key when the job is

Sidey: done. Yeah.

Reegs: Well, this is when Diane now she then

Howie: I reckon we should give a prize to anyone listening to this who knows what the fuck is going on in this

Reegs: right now. So

Howie: it's so hard

Reegs: she goes back home and she's just staring at the blue key on the coffee table. This is what I've got from my notes next. Right?

The creature from the diner is playing with the clue box in the dark. There's dark smoke billowing around her. She's lit red, the creature, the creature puts the blue box in a brown paper bag and drops it on the floor. At which point we zoom into it. There's an old fashioned like ring pool can for, for, for context, you can see the size two old people from the beginning.

Run out. In sped up motion and they're cackling and laughing. And then she's a alone at home on the sofa. There's ominous music playing. She's like really strung out, staring at an ordinary key, like just a hail yeah. Yale key or whatever. It's like some memory of the.

The blue key and the tiny old people then crawl under her door while someone knocks really loudly, then the old people rush her and now they're regularized and they're screaming at her and she runs to the bedroom and then she shoots herself.


Sidey: so, so she is the corpse

Reegs: yeah.

Sidey: That they saw in the apartment. Yeah.


Reegs: And then you see the horrible creature again, loads of smoke and shit, a swelling, stirring score, great shots of LA and Naomi Watts and the other character who was reader. It is now Camilla. And then we go back to the theater.

Sidey: Laura Harring. Her name is

cause I've Never

come across anything since or before.

Reegs: yeah, no. And then we go back to the theater and then the lady with blue hair says Valencia,

Sidey: the end.


So it, we sort of stumbled our way through there because it is fucking


real minefield to try and piece it together.


Reegs: there is a sort of tradition.

There is a, an explanation isn't there side, which I'm pretty sure you are gonna have over there.

Sidey: I do have it

Reegs: pieces the film together in a way that makes sense in a traditional narrative way. But

Sidey: so the jitterbugs thing is real. She had one. And this is just one interpretation, but it's the most popular slash widely accepted.

The jitter by competition was real. She won a jitter by competition and decided that she wanted to pursue a career in show business. Then you see some blankets in a pillow that she is asleep from then until the door knocks. everything that happens is a dream and I, her as a struggling. Failed actress. Who's in love with another woman who has her killed.

That's the reality and everything that happened in between. There is a dream, but if you go onto mul, , there's a whole section of theories on it, and there are millions and millions of theories. I'll just give you some of the the headers of them. Bribery, different form of revenge, Betty and Rita light and Darkside of Diane. Diane dream twice. Diane was murdered the abortion theory to drug trips, Diane projecting herself, as Rita schizophrenia, battle super, super ego and IID. The old couple represent Adam and Camilla replay of Diane's sexual abuse. That's just one section called dream reality then there's all dream or all real or metaphysical explanation. There are,


Howie: can go on.

Sidey: there. I

Reegs: I don't think it really warrants that kind of

Sidey: no, but it's the sort of film that people will obsess over that sort of stuff. People who like David Cher, people


Want find some meaning in there


Reegs: he gets a real cult around him and they love to do this sort of thing.

Sidey: thing. Yeah. I really



but Like

you read more just because it's.

It is bit, I think when I think of the film, in terms of that section of it being a dream, to me, it seems a little bit more traditional then, because the stuff after it does seem a bit more apart from the, like mid old people and stuff of it just being a kind of sad sort of jealousy and


story, you know, gone wrong does make a little bit more sense, but you can just interpret this a million different ways and I like that sort of stuff about


Reegs: It's got a good sense of humor about it, despite it being really weird, you know, not just the Hitman scene, there's other scenes that are quite funny. Yeah,

Sidey: I still found

Reegs: it's

Sidey: the dynasty where they see the, the homeless person for the first time. I still find that fucking terrifying

Reegs: It is it's unique.

And I think if somebody were to sit here and they said, they thought it was utterly bullshit and it was emperor's new clothes stuff. It, I would find it really hard to argue with

them Yeah. Particularly,

even though I get a kick out of it and there's good filmmaking on display and it's just, you know, it's just not conventional at all.

Sidey: It's the 14th film that was nominated for the best director, but no other categories.

Reegs: Mm. Yeah. Well, there's not really. Apart from Naomi Watts

Sidey: Yeah.

People were upset that she didn't have a nomination. though. It was originally, I mentioned it before, but it was originally written in the early 1990s as a spinoff of trim peaks, character act of Betty in the movie was written for trim peaks, supporting character, Audrey horn, who would've been the central figure of the house spinoff.

Howie: If someone was to like at the end of each review, normally say, so how did you find it?

Sidey: like

Howie: My answer would be, I couldn't tell you,

Reegs: well, the original, the original criteria we did for the podcast, it was SI's idea. And in a way we should go back to it, cuz I think it's really pure. It was are you, were you not

Sidey: entertained?

Howie: Yeah.

Reegs: And, and that is a good question because it doesn't you, then you don't have to justify it's were you entertained or not?

Howie: And my answer would be, I couldn't tell you and how fucked is that? It's not, no, I dunno. It's not, I wasn't, it's not, I was, I just couldn't tell you.

I've never seen anything like it ever.

Reegs: Yeah.

Howie: as I was going through it, I thought, as you just said, this is the PRI new clothes. This is full of pretentious, cus this is the sort of shit film students watch and tell me I'm Awan for not liking and preferring the Avengers or captain in Marvel.

And then I liked it in the middle and I really got into it. And then I was like, what the fuck? What? And I just got bamboozled, but wasn't sure what I, I can't adequately. Put together my thoughts on it. So there must be something it's, it's a piece of art.

Sidey: Well, counterpoints, the film was chosen by Le du in France as the best picture of the decade in the Norths.

The film was voted the best film of the 21st century by the BBC culture poll in 2016. You know, there's people out there who. Really, Really, do like it,

Howie: they've not seen captain Marvel have

Sidey: the license plate on the limo at the end of the movie, two G a T 1 23 is Larry David's license plate in Curber enthusiasm.

Nice. Yeah. So

Reegs: So they're setting the same universe.

Sidey: Yes. That's what he must be. He bought that second hand, I guess. Yeah.

And because it was originally. Shot for TV. or Some of it was originally TV when it was sent out to cinemas for projectionist David Lynch had a, a letterer for each projectionist saying,

Reegs: oh, well, there I there's a, I saw a load of great stuff about ratios because he likes to shoot in 2 33, 1, I think it is.

And then, but he, because it was for TV, it had to be 1 77, 1,

Sidey: It was 1 78, 1 Yeah. Or 16, nine.

And so they had, he was asking the projectionist to manually, correct.

  1. and Show

it lower down in the projection.


And he signed it off your friend David Lynch. So yeah, there's all kinds of

Reegs: there's so much aspect ratio.

If you like aspect


a lot to

Howie: that.

Sidey: It'd be great if, our listeners could let us know what they thought and let us know.

There any theories that that

you may

Reegs: or if you think it's shit, let us know if you think it's shit as well.

Sidey: Yeah, probably get a few of those

Reegs: Mm.

Howie: Pete, watch it.

Reegs: Yeah.

Sidey: Pete likes Jim, Pete that say he might like this.