Notoriously troubled production WATERWORLD (1995) wasn't the Box Office flop it was portrayed to be upon release by a critical establishment gleefully surfing a wave of anti-Costner feeling but it's also not the misunderstood gem that revisionists positioned it as a few years later when the movie was reevaluated free from the shackles of it's initial reception.
Kevin Costner is The Mariner, a mutant who roams the seas of a drowned Earth and becomes the protector of Enola (Tina Marjorino), a young girl whose tramp stamp may hold the secret to finding dry land. Denis Hopper's maniacal "The Deacon" leads the villanous Smokers from the wreck of the Exxon Valdez and is a decent foil to Costner's stock stoically dull persona though not everyone agrees with that assessment, with Hopper winning the Worst Supporting Actor award at the 1995 Razzies and the film itself being nominated for Worst Picture, Actor and Director which seems a smidge unfair, especially when you consider Michael Bay's BAD BOYS was released the same year.
The stunts are all impressive and the set pieces are big and well designed albeit a bit bombastic for my personal taste but the movie is long and rambling and lacks world building, with a curiously small feel despite how impressive the sets are. Costner doesn’t quite have the charisma to carry off the man with no name but with gills vibe and the acquatic mutation itself barely features in the story in any meaningful way, either plot related or thematically, so they seem a weird digression without further explanation. A mixed bag which doesn’t withstand the inevitable comparisons to the superior MAD MAX franchise, but the glorious 4K UHD version currently showing on Amazon Prime makes this worth revisiting as an odd curio, and we’re all unanimously in favour of this being rebooted.
Sidey: There was
Dan's nominations, but I do recall it being
a little bit.
of a team
Dan: Well it was for,
Sidey: but this was your own, this was your own one.
Dan: was all my own work, but yeah, you can take glory in the, in the later pod. But the mid-week was Waterworld and you know, it was one of those films. Massive budget. Massive hype
Sidey: It's famous for the
Dan: is famous, is famous pay was, I mean, it was big overseas.
Sidey: had actually never seen this. so this was my first
Pete: Is that true?
Sidey: is my
first Waterworld. Yeah,
Pete: Never seen it.
Sidey: Because it just had loads of stuff about it being crap and like being a flop. So I thought, well, I'll just Dodge.
Pete: I, when I hear something is. Oh, it's flopped, but it was meant to be kind of like big and epic. I'll probably still go and actually give it a try,
Reegs: especially back in these days to spend $200 million on a sort of weird mad max,
Sidey: mad max on water. Yeah.
Reegs: is, was quite bizarre notion really?
Dan: Mad max, and it, it doesn't stop there. It, I mean, it goes Mary Poppins, but I mean, let's let's talk about it and go through it. So if anybody, like Saudi has never seen this before imagine 200 years in the future when the polar ice caps have
Pete: more than
Reegs: it's more than that, but
Sidey: 2500, we are in the year,
Dan: But on another kind of, you know, couple of thousand um it there's loads. Um
Sidey: Ice caps have gone.
I don't think it'll take that long Will it.
Dan: I think science has probably sped that up a bit
Pete: Now, next Friday. Now
Dan: well that's
Reegs: So the whole surface of the earth is, is covered in water. Hence Waterworld. Cause it's a world of water. Yeah. we get introduced to the marijuana dome.
We drinking his own piss, which is when you establish a character moment for someone, I think drinking your own Pierce is a really bold choice, but it works really well in the story here where he's, he shows him being resourceful and then he waters the lemon tree or whatever it, lime tree something. And it's something that stops him getting rickets.
Dan: does it mean it was Kevin Colson had been his like mid forties for 30 years.
He just seems to have
Sidey: Well, We can go into that.
in this one,
but yes. So we see the first sort of mechanical contraption and there's lots of that in this film. And I really liked that
design all that. It was really cool. Yeah. It was sort of steam?
Reegs: Well, he's on this tri Moran and it's, it's got decks below, but it's, it's big and fast.
Dan: well even previous to that, what you do is it kind of opens up the film you've got there, the planet avenue, and it's slowly.
Going from green to blue and white blue and everything to blow. And looking back on it now, I know it doesn't go that way, but looking back at now, you just think what a great idea and what a great kind of environmental film this could have been in, go down and do any of that. It just. Played with the themes a little bit.
And, you know, we could have been talking about fucking a Waterworld world, had it, why it didn't, it was so many things that they've, they've kind of guessed into the future, but they just decided not to bother with much past the first half of the film. Anyway. It kind of stops any, any thinking about the future in, in an environmental
Sidey: just a straight out action kind of chase thing.
Dan: And, and you've got the Marriner then who's this Solo drifter if you like gypsies and
Reegs: the man with no name, but with gills.
Dan: he's. Trading with various people that he sees over this over the ocean.
There might be another loan guy that he's he trades with. And there's also these kinds
Reegs: when he recognizes the guy's boat, he recognizes the guy's boat, but not the pilot
Dan: why? Cause he's died. He's dived down to go and do what every does under the water there. And while he's gone, somebody's boarded his boat, Nick to his lemons. And then when he's come back and seen the boat, Oh, no, I've not been a board. Good as gold look we're off. And just in the distance, we have these kinds of pirates and they're called smokers, but they're the people that are fucking everyone up on the open seas and they're taking, yeah, they're taking whatever is in theirs and on the hurt arise.
And then they're coming and this new guy who's just stolen lemons.
prepared to fuck over the marina, get away. And,
Sidey: he shows him Disney. He's like,
Dan: yeah, I've got the lemon, Joe, just as he's getting away with marijuana, it is lawless. I mean, it is back in those days when the world is all blue and there's no real
Sidey: we find out later, but There is a code
Yeah, that they're supposed to live by, on the on these waters.
Dan: You should always
Sidey: But anyway, he's not having that this guy is Nick and his stuff. So he Springs into action. And when you see how fucking cool his trimaran is, cause he like, it's all automated to an extent
right? The cell goes up and it turns out to be fucking Yeah.
Reegs: And he can move around it pretty good as well. Cut.
He swings all around it. He goes from the top to the bottom. You can tell how good I am with the ship
Dan: Yeah. Yeah. That's really good. He went up and down and
Dan: Yeah. Yeah.
And, and so he ends up and it just gives us a flavor of how cool this guy is that he, and
Sidey: well, he,
Dan: command that he's
Sidey: totals the other guy's boat Doesn't he? He takes the same.
Dan: leaves him for the pirates to, to take.
And he, I think he even managed you to, does he hook something up as well? That was once his, did he get the
Sidey: he's got a boy or
something. cause he was diving down to find something. He's got something on a little inflatable, which he.
hooks up And he just, it shows his boat is it's pretty quick. He fucks
Reegs: that's how he retrieves the dirt.
Sidey: Yeah. So he, he fucks off really quick and you hear the other guy I think, just gets shot off screen. He
Reegs: they speak Hindi to each other.
Did you notice that? That's
Dan: didn't no, right. Oh, well
Reegs: that was interesting. That that was a common
that had survived of the CS.
Dan: And then we go to one of these little atolls where, which is basically. Yeah, a loader ships and dwellings
Pete: on water.
Reegs: like the it's mad max fury road or the, the apocalyptic city from Thunderdome or whatever, but on water, it looks excellent.
Dan: It really does. And, and you start to understand The, the value of things that we take every day now, like paper and soil, a huge CA it's like gold and diamonds in this new world. And and he's able to get his hands on this and they can't believe how much he's gotten everything of, of soil and dirt.
And they've even got a guy who chased it and says, wow, it's, it's the real Primo shit. You know?
Reegs: But they've got nothing. Anyway, the shops are empty.
Dan: There's nothing.
Reegs: no resources.
Dan: Any fish
Reegs: We see as he's like wandering round the atoll. We see some people being kind of thrown into what looks like a pool of shit.
It's like a comp a compost, like a a big sludge pool of
Sidey: what was it some kind of like execution thing where they just,
Dan: just execution. I think it's where they put their dead because there was one woman who just kind of died and she right at the beginning, there were. Putting her remains in there. They were maybe wasting fire or the resource.
They just go into this and maybe our body gets turned into something that helps them live a little bit of soup. It looked
Reegs: And then um and
and then he's propositioned for sex.
Dan: I've seen a fair bit of yellow turd suit today.
Reegs: He's propositioned for sex then by a very young
Sidey: yeah. Andre go. They basically, yeah. So obviously
Sidey: pool, The gene pool is very shy. Oh miss atoll. So they're like, oh, here's some fresh meat. Let's get them to impregnate Our 12 year old daughter
for the good of the greater good.
Dan: And when she, when he declines that they understand that no kind of man would turn down any kind of woman off the bean alone in the sea for that long. And and they are, and what happens REIT?
Reegs: We'll point,
the next point.
Reegs: well, we, I don't think have we got there yet because we've we've cause we've got
Dan: in my ears.
Reegs: he hasn't met
Sidey: Janine triple horn,
Reegs: Jeanne Tripplehorn I want to say
Pete: G G.
Reegs: Jean Jean, triple G. I've always
Dan: did she give you the triple horn? You three
Sidey: Yeah. And the misses as well, even the Mrs. commented, that she was hot.
Reegs: an attractive lady.
Dan: She, she is. For anybody that don't, did, you know, Jack Black was also in this
Sidey: Well, not until I did my research.
Dan: it. Yeah. But there you go. He would have been easy to miss.
Reegs: So anyway, there's a subplot that emerges, that becomes tied into the, is fate where a shady looking guy called Nord is talking about, he's asking around the atoll for a girl with a tattoo on her back. And we see, and supposedly he's saying that the tattoo has the location of dry land.
And we see a girl with Gian, Jean Janine, triple horn.
Reegs: is in Ola. And anyway, the marina goes to buy it and he buys everything in the shop, including the shelves and a
Dan: Well that the shelves are all they have with that tomato plant is interested in how the name Helen survives the next two and a half thousand years.
Isn't it. But how many.
Dan: 500 years.
Reegs: a true story though. Dad is
Dan: I don't know. I mean, you say that
Reegs: And so he's on the way back to the ship and that's when they say, oh, like, because he doesn't want to show it to a 12 year old, he must be a smoker spy, and they find out he's got
They cage him and hoist him up above the. dirt Thing
just trap then. And then all hell breaks, loose.
Pete: the smokers arrive.
Dan: And the smokers are led by an Oscar winning turn from Dennis Hopper. And when I say Oscar winning, I mean, Not
Pete: Oscar the grouch from Sesame street.
Dan: Um He really is. He really is rigs. He really is.
Pete: we're going if we're going early on performances,
Dan: well, just, just this
Pete: horrible to watch Dennis
Dan: sticks out.
Like, I mean, it's, it's right down there. His other kind of witty shit veterans that he occasionally does.
Pete: So, right. So I I've watched, I've watched this at my mother's house this morning.
And at one point she just walked past and said, what's this? I said Waterworld. And she said, oh, I recognize like, oh, who's that is that Dennis Hopper? And then she went, oh, he's hamming it up a bit.
So she picked it in like,
Sidey: does that.
Reegs: that he did. That's what he
Reegs: It's like, it's like going, oh God, Nick cage was overacting
Pete: Yeah. But Dennis Hopper, isn't just known for like ridiculous ludicrous, mega acting. hang on. Easy rider and stuff like that. That's not
Sidey: You didn't, you never,
Reegs: easy. Right.
Sidey: you never watched blue velvet.
Dan: Yeah. If overact in there as well, but I mean, in, in this he's it's almost like.
It was going quite well. The film up until he got into it, I felt it was, it was quite interesting. There was enough going on
Sidey: certainly when you see the Atol, when you first saw it, I was like, wait, you can see where the fucking money
went on this. You know what I mean? It is incredible because it's all
practical practically done and
all that sort of stuff.
Then you get the convoy of it is like a straight, line. I was straight away thinking like fury road, you know, this combo, but it's boats and jet skis and whatever. heading towards it. And it pans up to the leader on the fucking thrown sort of thing. And it's Dennis Hopper just like chewing up
us writing whether you like his boys or not, you know, it's larger than life.
Let's just say that.
Pete: we'll see. He's called the deacon.
Reegs: the deacon,
Sidey: Yeah. and they're, they're just like, hell bent for destruction and like rape and pillage. Basically,
Dan: Well he's promised them to the promise land of land and they're hopefully gonna, yeah, that's what it's called.
Sidey: Promise land.
Dan: and so he's in charge. This huge kind of boat.
It's like a cargo freight boat full of the pirates and it's where they operate from. It's where all the
Reegs: well, that's the Exxon Valdez. Dan, it's the cause it's him. That was at one point the biggest oil spillage,
Sidey: bigger than that
Reegs: 10.8 million barrels, of course, dwarfed. And now by the deep water horizon, one was like 220 million barrels of oil or whatever.
But yeah, so they, even, their patron Saint is captain Hazelwood, who was the actual disgraced Pilot captain, captain
Sidey: the plane station.
Pete: I did. I did wonder I didn't, I should've looked up who, oh, who's that guy. It must be someone and that's how it is. Yeah. We, we also, it becomes apparent why they called the smokers. Cause they do a lot of smoking,
Reegs: They smoke cigarettes
Pete: deacons got a load of ciggies,
Sidey: Yeah, And he just
launches them out So he's walking around
Pete: left, right. And
Sidey: kind of like a
Robin hood kind of thing, or just dishing, you know, keeping all the the minutes back.
Reegs: No, I think and if you liked it, feel
Dan: from the poor to give to.
Sidey: No one,
Reegs: it. If you like to see children smoking, which I think we're all the fan of this BV had it like a lot of like 12
Pete: I'd like to add that it's not a fetish or just enjoy watching kids smoke.
Dan: and animals.
Reegs: does clear it.
Pete: It's not weird.
Sidey: So yeah, they have some sort of desire for some staff and it basically.
the film kind of descended
Reegs: Well, there's like three or four. Absolutely brilliant set pieces. If you like that sort of thing. Well, are they absolutely brilliant? There's some big set pieces. There's one where they were Jack Black's flying round and the idiot triple Horner's fired a harpoon it, when she wasn't supposed to, and it goes around and they pull that's a good scene.
And then they managed to get rid of Enola for a little while the girl just so they had just long enough that they can have. The marina and no, they do. They not
Sidey: no first of all, she offers herself up. That's where the body double way CRS. and then later on they do actually have sex. It's like the shape of water.
She fucks a fish.
Dan: right. Yeah. That's right towards the end.
Reegs: You know, that's not her real ass.
Sidey: Yes. But she had done nudity before
post but didn't want it Didn't want to do it.
Yeah. She kind of gets a
bit rapey that, scene. But she didn't, for some reason, fancier, maybe it was cold
Sidey: so, but she screamed the nude doubles to make sure that the ass looked
Pete: did her justice,
Dan: How she wanted her ass to look. Well the little kid
Reegs: if we were doing that, like get me the three hairiest
Pete: Yeah, it was good to say Jersey zoo.
Dan: th there you get the little girl who's, who's got this tattoo of the map to, to land on her back is, is whatever. Trying to chase after Helen is trying to protect her. It's not a mother, but it's a friend she's kind of fallen in with. There's also this mad kind of professor guy who, who manages to escape as the smokers are
Reegs: that was Michael Gita
from the Fisher king,
Pete: the Fisher king and green mile
Sidey: When did he get like helium or whatever it was to,
do his whole Ablin
Reegs: What is it? Because his accent is kind of half Louisiana, half Irish.
Pete: I didn't even pick up until like the final scenes that he had. Like a forest sounded like a foreign accent.
It seems to change throughout.
Reegs: It was very strange.
Dan: was really keeping score on he's in his accents.
It felt like in the, in the film. And at some point later on in the film, you just know he's going to turn up because he's forced to leave the island. His is blue and goes off early without the girl, without the marina, without Helen who are forced to do a amazing escape to get out the atoll. At one point they harpoon a boat with a Tommy gun on that's just firing into the atoll when he swings it around, until it starts pointing in the direction of Dennis Hopper,
Reegs: that's all red.
And it looks like they're like blowing up the set, practically done it. So they built this stuff and then they're doing it because you know, there's not CGI really have much, no in this. So when they're destroying stuff, they really are.
Dan: So as they get away, this for me then starts to mark. Why? I, I I've seen the film, I've met all the characters, then there's a few kind of really crazy Bates.
There's they're getting hungry and hungry or, you know, the bit I'm talking about when he puts himself down as like the bait. Yeah. And there's
Reegs: I know a car battery to a harpoon or something and he's.
Dan: And, and, and just kind of drops off the end of the boat and dangles himself as the boats going forward. And this huge kind of sea monster thing comes
Sidey: I think it was a sea girl,
Dan: a seagull and he kills the goal and they eat it.
Dan: just like so bad. Why didn't he just dive down, grab a normal fish and come back up.
Pete: I got an issue with this bit in the eye, but bearing in mind the size of the monster he catches, the eyeball is like no bigger than a human eye.
I'm not having that, that
Sidey: Which would lead
you to believe that it would
live Around the surface of the ocean.
Because things like in the Marriott trip, they would have great big and emphasize The I to had ratio would
Pete: Exactly. Right. So I'm, I'm calling bullshit. I don't think that was a real creature.
Reegs: I don't know. I, I think when you get that deep P don't need eyes anymore, you need other things.
Sidey: but those salamanders that have evolved in caves
too, that don't
Dan: Well, it looks kind of looked like a big salamander.
Pete: this was near the surface and it was massive, but its eyes were tiny.
Dan: I don't believe that actually would have tasted any good anyway, but there you go. He, he he's done
Pete: monkfish it did. It was a very meaty.
Dan: Yeah, he's he's done that. I actually, I was kind of enjoying it. I mean, where are you at at this point in the film?
Because it was action.
Sidey: off a little bit
to me at
Dan: It was tailing off by the
Sidey: I mean, the, the big fight they asshole
Was the high point of the film
and everything after it is like a,
Pete: would you say 45 minutes to an hour into the film now?
Dan: even longer it's some of the points I've mentioned. But it's a long goal. Film is, is two and a half hours.
Sidey: what you said at the start
it potentially could have had some more messages or
it could have done
this, or it could done that with it, They just Fucked all that off. And it just, it's just like a, kind of a weak kind
of chase because water-based stuff is pretty boring anyway. Quite a lot of it.
You're just watching people, sail you're like sailing is Wang. to watch. Like
Sidey: was some bits of it that did look good. And when it was all like mechanical and the set was like tangible stuff, it was great. And I do like the odd view of the sea. but
Reegs: for me, the thing was the world felt really small. Yeah, that was the pretty, it was like just the smokers, this at all.
And like, there was no sense that there was anything else going on, other communities, how they were adapting to it. And it could have done with more oddities, like the big fish thing and some other, you know, just to flesh out, otherwise it was just like big bombastic set piece after
Pete: seems to have this, like, you know, it's, it's a strong start. We're all agreed. Right. And it's giving you this kind of like this concept and idea and delivered.
Pretty well, and then obviously they would have had, this is how it's going to end, and this is where it's going to end. And.
And then the stuff in between just seemed to be almost like, oh, and then we'll have to flesh this out a bit.
So we'll encounter another guy. There's like the guy that they do some trading with, and then they have a fire And
Dan: was like, it was like, somebody looked at their watch and say, oh, we got 15 minutes left and we bet wrap this up. You know,
Pete: like they thought, right. We're going all in here where we're going to make the most expensive film.
Got cilantro. This can't be a 90 minute film, so we need to drag this out and they did. And it, the film suffered badly as a
Dan: Well, at one point we go underwater in on the Waterworld Waterworld, and he shows Helen what has become of the world and where he gets soil. Because him turning up with soil was the biggest thing that's ever happened to this at all. Anywhere else, they couldn't believe it. They're, they're convinced that he knows where dry land is and that he's going to lead the way.
He doesn't really deny. But he calls him a fall a few times and says, well, I, okay, well, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Of course you kind of know where it's heading.
But then the smokers managed to find them. They get the gal they're going off. They take, they take her, she's got the, and they leave the Maranon and Helen for dead.
Reegs: Well, that's when they have sufficient time alone to have sex,
Reegs: you can fail the plot. Just go, right. Well,
Dan: the balloon
Reegs: two over here so they can,
Pete: that was it. It was like, what I think is worth talking about is when they go down, she goes down in his bell to the, like the bottom and you see I've read, it was like den was a Denver, like Denver, Colorado, whatever. That's what it's meant to be. So it's a city and you see a CIT, a whole city underwater, like skyscrapers, everything submerged by.
It looks shit, but the, the, the idea of
Reegs: idea though. Maybe it looks a
Pete: it did look shit. And I was trying to think back, cause obviously the, all the practical stuff they've obviously spent a shit ton of money on it, but when they're will CGI in this, it looked wonky like the big facial at Wang and the, the diving scene around the city, literally really shit.
Sidey: We're still in the nineties. So that stuff just doesn't, age. Well,
Pete: if, if there was anything to sort of
Reegs: but the ideas though, the ideas are strong. I just needed to see
Pete: that good. That bit should have been like fucking, really light. Yeah.
Dan: thought there was going to be a little pocket of air down there that they might have been
Sidey: Like the Phantom menace when they go and see the
Pete: oh yeah, the gun guns. Yeah.
Reegs: So anyway, he goes, and basically now that they've been separated he Rambo's, the fucking Exxon Valdez takes out everybody. They, he hopper just goes our dry lands over that way. So the populace just fucks off downstairs to row the Exxon Valdez off to like mindlessly. And you're just like, yeah, that's a decent analogy for politics.
Yeah. And Yeah, they Costner threatens to blow them all up. And deacon is like, oh, that's bullshit. You're never going to do that. And then he does,
Pete: Cause the girl says he D he never Bluffs.
Reegs: Oh, he he doesn't have a name cause death doesn't know his name or something is there's there's like a great, just how bad as is he speech?
Dan: Yeah. And the issues, I mean, there's a little comic moment. She's kind of wind in the baddies up saying, you know, go get her at one point, they're saying, look, do we actually need to go couldn't we just take their tattoo and put it up like a, you know, stretch it. We could just rip the skin off and stretch it and, and put it over.
So Th there was, there was a few little bits that kind of kept you interested in hoping as much as anything else, something else was going to happen. The balloon arrives. Of course, it's gonna be the mad professor. He picks up the girl,
I'm just laughing at B L w O N
Dan: Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. All right.
And they get saved and, and catch up the the smokers. They saved the girl and an a Sigala arrives.
Reegs: Oh, well, hang on. Hopper ends up he's on the rope up to,
Pete: the balloon,
Reegs: up to the balloon and he Gets kicked off doesn't he buy the marina and then he's involved in a three-way jet ski collision that they're not able to pull out of while Costner, bungee jumps out.
But this is what really bothered me. Like they made him a mutant and his mute mutation is that he's got guilt.
Right. Nobody else is a mutant as far as I saw in the Right. So, okay. And then he's got gills, but yeah. Play into the movie in any meaningful way.
Dan: what one scene,
Reegs: It's just the thing. Yeah. He's
Dan: one scene he's, he's kind of kissing Helen to
Sidey: and you can see his girls flapping around.
Dan: and, and they don't
Pete: drowns two guys by just I'm on the water whilst he's breathing on the
Reegs: I just thought it might be a bit more meaningful. I dunno.
Sidey: Is there another community.
Reegs: Yeah. It's so many like good ideas that just never went anywhere
Pete: exactly That
Dan: we do find land.
Sidey: Yeah. So where would that be?
Pete: it's Mount Everest. It is Mount Everest, which, which I looked at cause I was getting really bored by then.
So I looked at how long it would take to hot air balloon from Denver to Mount Everest.
Sidey: Google maps,
Pete: I didn't Google maps. I looked at it like average flight of a hot air balloon in terms of speed, which is five miles an hour. And it's just shy of 8,000 miles. So it would have taken 66 days. to, to, yes I have.
Yeah. It's I dunno, because I drank a lot of champagne. Well, so I was up there and got, got a bit, Larry tried rocking it and stuff.
It was, it was, it was a big basket. There was like 12 people in the basket was like the size of this room. Yeah. You just,
Sidey: yeah. the crash. You're
Pete: kind of what you do.
Sidey: I've never,
I'd never like, thought about How
Dan: does this just kind of tip you
Sidey: You just
fucking stuck it.
into the ground.
And then you've got lions for
Pete: w w w there weren't any injuries.
Dan: You were too drunk to know.
Reegs: Don't think I want to do that
But I also thought, okay, well, we know, we know now because a of 14 peaks about the 14.
Dan: highest mountains.
Reegs: So if that much of Everest was out and above the water, that there was enough for her. Sort of functioning community that you could put on that there would be other islands. So go ahead and make a Waterworld sequel and
Pete: I don't know, like the distance between, would you be able to see the other peaks from
Sidey: the sea
levels have risen
Dan: average, you can see a climb, three of him in 24 hours, didn't
Pete: That's amazing.
Dan: He and he was all in his forties.
Pete: I'm warming to him now.
Sidey: the C C level had written 7,600 meters, Daniel Good at maths. How many.
of the peaks Would
probably would be still
Dan: Oh 14 there over 8,000. Aren't
Sidey: There you go.
Reegs: And how many years ago was this?
Dan: And it was what, 6,000. We say
anyway, the first cut is the deepest, but it was
over three hours
Costner's original. So maybe there were some more things to explore but they said, no,
hell no, And so he managed to edit it down.
Two hours 15.
Dan: I think that's where this film has suffered probably in the edit. And it does feel like it's, there's been parts of
Sidey: there wasn't a strong enough story of what we saw on the screen
for two hours,
Pete: this, this wasn't like, is it once upon a time in America where it, like, they, they put out like two hours worth of stuff and everyone hated it. And then they put out the full four hour version and it made a load of fucking sense.
If this was four hours long, I would have committed suicide.
Dan: would you have drowned yourself that would have been
Pete: Yeah. That would have, yeah, there'd been an ironic suicide,
Sidey: but there was
Reegs: there was friction on set. Did
Sidey: Yes. And it's a bit of a weird one because
Costner had worked. Yes. They had worked together on prince of thieves and four and out then. Yeah. And so when, he was
Reegs: and he'd also helped coach Costner through dances with wolves as well, which was costing his Oscar winner.
Sidey: So before they started on this,
who, I guess from the studio basically locked the two of them in a hotel room together till they figured that shit.
out, But then they just had another
catastrophic falling out.
Reegs: You see the quote that he said? He said it's in the future cost center should only appear in pictures. He directs himself that way. He can always be working with his favorite actor and his favorite director.
pretty low. There was a fan
edit of the movie
was an extended
TV, version. Which added an extra 40 minutes of footage back in, but they censored out some other stuff. So some nerd went and got the extra 40 minutes that they'd put in and edited that back into the original version. And that became the elite edit.
I think they called it. And that then later got adopted by the studio when they released like a special Blu-ray edition. That was the official like director Scott, But it's just
Dan: happened a couple of times. Isn't it? Where you've got.
Sidey: Sorry, it's called the Ulysses cuts. Not the only one I talking about the Ulysses car
Reegs: Joel, Joel Sweden came in to do
Sidey: some raping and
Reegs: doctoring on
Sidey: yeah, he does that quite a lot today.
Sidey: so effectively, this was to my mind when it, when everyone mentions what I think of it as being like a massive, flop. So what do you think about the numbers The budget.
was it 175 mil.
Pete: I, I seem to remember when we did the films that lost money top five, that this wasn't in there.
So I don't, I think it broke even, or maybe even made a
Dan: has had a bit of a cult, you know, or it was one of those films that just because of the hype people, other than society did go and see it.
To today, I don't whether DVD and streaming rights and things like that has managed to claw back. Some of that 175 mil, I reckon it's still lost though.
Sidey: well so budget 175 mil box off it took 264 mil, but I've got more detailed money
Reegs: Well, I went to see it at the cinema, so I was one of those people who paid money to see
Sidey: The film.
235 to produce and to market And so gross 264 million worldwide, which approximately 55% goes back to the studio.
That's 145 mill. So they're out of pocket. The remainder of that 264 goes to the theater. Cinema's as that 2013, the film had actually turned a profit of 8 million from video sales and television licensing. So there you go. Not a flop. at
Reegs: Yeah. And they made toys and
Sidey: a famous for,
for theme park rides.
because it's still rides at theme parks, but based on Waterworld to this day
Sidey: Kevin Costner put 22 million of his own dosh to make this that's that's bold,
Reegs: I read, I really hope this is true. I read that he had the digital effects team replaces
Sidey: Yeah But that's what I was when you said, it was always, always look for, if I was, I work maybe. Cause there's a bit of like,
you know, digital
Pete: but it is his hair. Right. I don't think this is worth mentioning because we talked about like mad max and stuff. And like, obviously he's a strong hair going from Mellon in madman.
But his hair's rubbish in this, and I know
Pete: quite a lot, but it's really like thin and wispy. And you
Sidey: Cause I actually said
Pete: guy. If this is a Kurt Russell or a male or whatever, he'd have a flowing Maine.
Sidey: getting near Kurt's here. But I actually said, I didn't know about the digital touching up of his hairline, but when there was one bit where he's just like crouched out on the boat and it has a word and I said, fuck it. He's not got many haircuts
left, that's like,
they've, post-production just hairline.
Pete: I also noticed that everyone seems to be quite, there's a lot of fake tan in this, but obviously no one had time to go. Yeah, there's no one had time to go to the beach. Like Dennis Hopper was bright orange and this,
Dan: Yeah. I think that's just the, the sun kind of affects in the sea, in the
Reegs: and they spent hours and hours and hours because they had to get the whole fucking thing out far enough that they could do a 270 degree shot of the atoll and open water so that you couldn't see your stuff. So it just took them hours over a day. And there was like hurricanes and all sorts
Sidey: Yeah. They used all the
available steel in the
Hawaiian islands to build the,
Reegs: all about.
Sidey: So you need stilts. I know. Can't, can't have it.
Dan: can just imagine like the setting up the production for
Sidey: then they were having to fly in from California
had to extend the airport
to accommodate the planes, to
carry the fucking stairs there.
Pete: It wasn't worth it.
Dan: Now Kevin's 22 million. He might, there must be better things to spend my
Pete: when on
I mean, it just, it sounds ridiculous.
So everybody's lost the plot there with that sort of thing happening, but it, it's an interesting failure. I think.
It's not, it's a little bit more than a mad max clone rip off because the idea could
Sidey: yeah, I was excited to watch it. And for the first like 30, 40 minutes, I was really enjoying, it and it just started to tail off.
after that. I just, I, It was a shame,
Reegs: reboot it. I say,
Pete: I thought exactly that there's, there's a lot of things that, that don't need to be touched ever again.
And, and many of them have, this was too, I think it was it too ambitious. I think it had the, like the, the makings of something that could have been really fucking cool. Right.
'cause obviously it's, it's like, you know, it's got a lot of like compares and stuff in other compares peers, whatever. In, in other like, you know, in other settings, let's say that have stood up and have stayed the test of time as well.
Whereas this fucking hasn't, I'd seen it once, I think before and then bits and pieces of it. And I remember thinking, I remember feeling a bit, sorry. By the time I'd gone to watch it. I thought I've heard, it's been panned. I heard it was an absolute fucking like Turkey lights in terms of the money spent versus the, like the final kind of like outcome.
And I think I tried to like it more than it deserved back then. And till now I would have said, oh no, it's all right. It's not too bad. It's it's, it's, you know, it's, it's not as terrible as people say this, this V this viewing was fucking painful.
Sidey: We should reboot it. Is that what you're
Pete: Yeah, absolutely. I think we could do, we've got we've got some stage.
exactly. We're surrounded by
Reegs: and everybody here is probably got stronger hair game
Pete: a hundred percent Yeah. Nothing wrong with our hairlines here.
Dan: Well, there is no Oscar not and I don't think there was anything fishy going on there. That was just the way it needed to be. Did it get a Razzie cause we're going to be talking about Razzies
Sidey: segues very nicely into the Friday show because I think Dennis Hopper, I think he can cost and I think my God not today,
Dan: A numb or are they gonna have to tune into our shooter?
Pete: yeah. Come on. There's a million fish buttons that you could have
Dan: I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah.
Sidey: This is time and a place
Dan: do or don't do it.