July 8, 2022

Tove & The Moomins

Tove & The Moomins

One of the best things about podcasting apart from the fun of the actual recording, the really cool people we’ve been able to meet as a result of doing this, the chance we’ve had to indulge our passions, the unity and commitment it takes from 5 different people to spaff this nonsense out into the ether each week and the dedication to refinement of a craft even one as insignificant as this is the fact that you can in some small way reduce your self-worth to a number if you like, the number of downloads that you’ve had. And though it’s not important, it is a little bit important so here’s hoping that this week’s super niche Moomin based content will have us shooting up the charts. We start things off this week by discussing the Top 5 Creatures and there were plenty to choose from.
TOVE (2020) is a biography of painter, writer, illustrator and The Moomins creator Tove Jansson, set in three different time periods of the Finnish artists life. Born into a family of artists in Helsinki, her mother was an illustrator and her father, Viktor, a renowned sculptor so it was perhaps inevitable that she would find herself drawn into the family passion though Viktor's cruel dismissiveness of her Moomins drawings fuels her fear of failure. When she meets wealthy socialite and director Vivica Bandler it sparks a love affair spanning several years as her creative endeavours and love life become intertwined. This is probably not a stop everything, you must watch this now type recommendation from us but as the true story of the sexual liberation of a free-spirited woman who threw off the shackles of her domineering father to become an international sensation whilst also exploring the subtle heartbreak of being in love with a partner who doesn't feel precisely the same way, there is plenty to enjoy. Strong performances from Alma Pöysti, Shanti Roney and Krista Kosonen anchor this well-made, thoughtful and at times very beautiful movie.
Knowing that THE MOOMINS was written against the backdrop of the author's exploration of her sexual and romantic identity while defying her openly chauvinistic father makes it all the harder for me to talk about the sheer freaky what-the-fudginess of the episode we watched, "The Moomin Valley in Spring". The first episode of the 1990 cartoon series sees the gentle watercolour vista of Moominvalley (one word I'm reliably informed despite what it says in the title of the episode right there above) as the scene of a horrifying Twilight Zone style existential nightmare where Moomin is transformed into something like the Sumatran rat monkey from Peter Jackson's BRAINDEAD. Also, the cast of characters reads like a list of urban dictionary entries: I smashed her right in the Snufkin, last week Bruce tugged my Snork Maiden on a pedalo and I've never been able to walk the same way again, do you fancy a Mymble's daughter?  etc.

We love to hear from our listeners! By which I mean we tolerate it. Try us on twitter @dads_film, on Facebook Bad Dads Film Review or on our website baddadsfilm.com.
Until next time, we remain...
Bad Dads



Reegs: Welcome to bad. Dad's film review the podcast equivalent of a hot sweaty night. You know, the ones where the air taste as if it's been strained through a pair of toddler, sweaty underpins, and you lie sleepless thrashing around like you're a dying horse this week. It's bad dad. Dan's big moment.

As he came up with this week's nominations featuring the top five creatures, the very first finish movie, I think we've ever reviewed the biographical drama Tove about Momins creator, Tove, Jansen, and finishing up with a look at her work on the small screen with the first episode moonman valley. We also have a midweek mention that is not the film legend that Dan watched.

It's actually the film, a Cinderella story that we're doing. With Charlie Bingham from a mountain conversations podcast. So listening to that, that was her suggestion. And then to make things worse, we in actually inflicted ourselves on her and being as we haven't recorded that yet. And there's a ton of technical things that could go wrong in between now and then.

Yeah. It's

Sidey: this is a risky risky intro

Reegs: the intro. Yeah. I'm your cohost res the man sitting to my right is Sidy. What did you watch this week? Sidy?

Sidey: I discovered a YouTube channel about art. So I watched thing explaining like really famous pictures. I dunno. Anything other than like the Mona Lisa and stuff.

So they do go into stuff like that. So I watch quite a bit of that, cuz they're only like 10, 15 minute episodes, then I watch the boys. And other than that, it's just homework.

Reegs: How you feeling about the boys?

Sidey: Think it's not that great this season.

Reegs: Oh really? I just love it all.


Sidey: I do love it but I recognize it's the like childish infant in me that just enjoys the swearing, the violence, but storywise is it actually that good?

Reegs: Mm. All right. Okay. Not feeling it,

Sidey: I'm feeling it like six outta 10.

Reegs: Yeah. Okay. Dan?

All right

Dan: yeah. I watched legend legends because I got confused as occasionally happens when we nominate films.

Reegs: When you say occasionally week. Yeah. Every weeks

Dan: Yeah. , we've also got Lucifer going on in my house. I dunno if you've ever caught up

Sidey: I'm aware of it

Dan: Yeah. So it's it was TV, just put it on like late at night and it's easy to watch, you know, just see episode after episode. It's

Reegs: I was gonna say there's a lot of episodes it's got ran for quite a long time.

Dan: It's like six seasons. It is already kind of, I think I'd watch about five or six episodes already. But it's already kind of. The novelty is wearing off. Yeah. But for five or six episodes, it's the case is the, the devil got cast down to hell. But he's come to earth for a vacation.

So he's just this really kind of suave guy who's going around. All the women love him and he loves to get people into trouble and find out their darkest desires. He ends up working with the cops. It's a little, like, I dunno if you've ever seen the blacklist or yeah. So it's a lot. Yeah. It's along those kind of lines where they're just solving crimes and each episode seems to resolve itself

Sidey: Oh the reset

Dan: go on, but there's a little thread going through within their relationship.

So that was so, so pretty good. Other than that, just, just homework this week for

Reegs: Yeah. And things that you thought were homework. Yeah. Extra credit,

Dan: extra credits.

Reegs: Yeah

Sidey: What about you E uh

Reegs: Stranger things I've

Sidey: finished I haven't gone there yet.

Reegs: Okay. Well, I won't ruin it. It just, it it's long. Yeah. The ending goes on it's Lord of the ring style ending going on for a long, long time.

But yeah I did enjoy that. Yeah.

Dan: I've, I've still only seen season one and that was a while back and I'd probably have to

Sidey: On it So

Dan: Yeah.

Reegs: We have a top five to finish up from last week. It was horses

Sidey: we do

Reegs: had a lot of content that was nominated that we talked about actually on the pod last week.

Sidey: did And then we had another, which was from Mel, which was the changing color kind of

Reegs: wait, horse,

Sidey: multi multicolor. Horse

Dan: horse,

Sidey: horse. Yeah.

Which is quite good in, I suppose it was nominated during pride month,

Dan: nice.

Sidey: which is quite

Reegs: yeah, that is a rainbow. Yeah. Sort of rainbow flag. Horse. Yeah. From wizard of O so yeah. That's good. Yeah. Well, let's help that one.

Sidey: I dunno why I got so confused then that's just looking at something. Got distracted. Anyhow. Yeah. I'm

back on board

Dan: have we heard from any other. Listeners, Twitter,

esque, people that get in touch with us cuz didn't we reach out to,

Sidey: Yeah. Cause can we reach out? Well, we hear from people all the time really, but we, we're probably a little bit down on posting ourselves last week.

Cause it was a bit of a hectic one. So

Reegs: oh, well Johnny was upset. Johnny Utah was upset. He felt that I ridiculed his beloved rock set.

Dan: Oh right. Rockette decent band. Yeah. You like them? Yeah.

Reegs: Yeah. A couple of decent tunes or

Sidey: Oh you're gonna, in trouble.


Reegs: Moving swiftly on. Why don't we go with this week's top five. Dan. You're a disgusting creature.

Dan: Yeah. Well, you know, mythical creatures, I've

Sidey: kind of gone from wait mythical.

Dan: Well, you know,

Sidey: made up, I thought it


just fictional. Yeah.

Reegs: You put Slimer from Ghostbusters.

Dan: he's mythical. Isn't he?

Sidey: shes. Okay, good. Cause I, I thought that most of my list just evaporated, but no, we're good. We're back on.

Dan: no

Reegs: creatures basically.

Sidey: I've just got made

up ones.

So I've

Dan: slim, slim is an a mythical beast.

Sidey: Not sure that he was in the, which which,

mythology Greek or Roman.

Dan: Well, just like culture mythology,

Reegs: Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sidey: So yeah, like Slimer, I've tried to, I think, just go for ones that are made up in movies. So don't come from

right. You know, books like you or whatever. Well, I don't know. you can, it's not you to argue the tos.

That's just how I, played it with my list

Reegs: Well, why don't you start us off Dan, with an example that will unconfuse.

Dan: Gizmo from gremlins. Yeah. He's, that's, that's a classic kind of creature they just made up to. And he's this fluffy little beautiful creature until obviously he's, he's a MOG wife.

He's, he's a MOG wife. Thank you. Cuz you are a bit of an expert on this actually. Aren't you it's

Reegs: I, well, that is a well known thing. I think Moy and then obviously the rules done, which will be

Dan: water. Is it after dark?

Sidey: No after midnight but then it's

paradoxal Cause it's always fast after you it's he? Past midnight? Yeah,

Dan: always.

Yeah. It

always seems. When was the, is it daylight six?

Reegs: Well, they play around with that in gremlins too. Cuz he's like, oh, what if he's on a, a plane and he eats and he goes over the international Dateline sort of so,

Dan: that's true. Yeah.

Reegs: They're aware it's a stupid rule. There's a series coming out. I think an animated series secrets of the mow. I think I want to call it really?

Dan: Okay.

Sidey: Interesting. We reviewed both those movies on the pod. Yeah. FYI.

Dan: Well, yes. So it gets to mentioned now and again from us, but gizmo would be one of those Made up creatures. What you got res

Reegs: well, I kind of wanted to talk about some of the people behind the creatures is that acceptable? Well, the people who bring the creatures to life like legendary people like Phil Tippet, we've talked about him before he did the original star wars trilogy. So brought to life a number of Beasties and creatures in that the rankor is obvious.

One to think about. He also did Jurassic park. I dunno if that qualifies Parran did Howard, the duck, which had the dark overlord thing. So he was sort of king of that stop motion thing. And then he, you know, he worked in the seventies and eighties with stop motion and then moved into digital in the nineties with stuff like Starship troopers, which also had some good

Sidey: it's great

Reegs: creature content in it, the brain bugs.

And it was a real great you know, a lot of people didn't realize it was a satire, which seems unbelievable now looking back on it. So yeah, Phil Tippert was, was a guy who, who really brought that stuff to life, the creatures to life. He's got a project called mad God, which he's been developing since 1990.

And he's finally bought to the screen this year, which is all kind of crazy animation and creature effects and all sorts of stuff. So

Dan: Cool. Well, you, you got Ray Harry House is, is the kind of

Reegs: some people call him the master of fantasy.

Dan: Yeah. He's kind of the godfather of this, you know, any, any self-respect in myth creatures needed to have absolutely. Yeah. Harry House

Reegs: right. Because I, for whatever reason, I just didn't have the enough time to do all of the research I wanted to do for this topic, which is, this is a subject

Dan: question.

You do that every, each week on, on my, on my choices. Don't

Reegs: no, just each week. It's never enough time, but Ray, Harry House, he had either the stop motion type things, or quite often it was stuff like a scorpion, but blown up to like really big, massive SC and the guy's green screening

Dan: Well he, he did that actually with the that hundred foot kind of metal statue in Jason in the Argonauts where he, he kind of Hercules borrows a piece of treasure from the hoard of the gods.

And he inadvertently activates this kind of guardian and the immense Titan. Yeah, yeah. Tallis and and then that's kind of, you know, him. Sliding his, his feet and crushing everybody and, and swinging his sword and everything. And he bridges kind of the, the two cliffs doesn't he? And the boat's gotta go in between him.

Yeah, Harry House at his best. I mean, when I was a kid watching that, it was just, yeah, it was real life, you know, it was, you kind of just about knew it wasn't true because of the way they moved, but

Reegs: no, it was more like, cuz I had the books of it like all the legends and all that stuff. And it was like the way the stories were told that it was sort of long ago, you were almost young enough to think, oh, it kind of did happen.

And there were really big scorpions and shit roaming, the earth and people fighting organs. And what have you


Dan: skeletons with swords and shields? What you got side?

Sidey: Well I'm gonna go with, I'm just reading it now.

Dan: You've lost

Sidey: you know, I am partial bit of star Trek, so we're, I'm gonna nominate

Armas from star Trek. Next generation. The episode is called skin of eval. Right?

Dan: eval. Right? Okay.

Sidey: So as you're

aware with star Trek, they'll occasionally the awaiting will beam down to some other planet and it's gone from original series of pretty shoddy


like quickly


to get the mask or whatever to next gen where you get pretty shoddy, but now CGI CGI, or still some, a lot of practical


Dan: been a bit bigger and braver,

Sidey: So this

episode is in my opinion, well known for killing a cast member.

Reegs: Oh the security officer.

Sidey: Tasha ya Yeah.

Reegs: was it a black goo

Sidey: it's a tar pit looking thing, which kind of metamorphise into a sort of humanoid shape and it communicates and it just kills her ruthlessly just kills her and, you know, normally they'll get the tricorder out and do like a magic heel thing or, you know, the

reset burn will get pressed.

And it does a lot in actually there's a lot of reset barns, but this one is like, she's fucking dead. So it's quite surprising. And it's

Reegs: I remember watching that and being really shock. I'm not even a Trek Lord, but I did watch it. And because

Sidey: she did a red shoes diary where she got her boobs out and it was not appropriate for Trek

cast members And so they fucking go rid of her. Yeah.

Reegs: It wasn't a sort of game of throne style. Anyone can go

Sidey: like

broken the terms of contractors owned by

going on a soft core porno thingy so away with you.

Dan: Okay. Family show.

Sidey: Yeah, exactly.

Dan: Well, whether it's fighting a or, or Danny Glover or whatever predator. I mean, he's, he's the man, isn't he, he's not, actually, he's a Supreme hunter. He's a monster with intelligence and, and awesome weapons and all that kind of shit. So he's one of those beast they just made up outta nowhere and he's kind of spawned his own movies.

He's spawn a sequel he's got even bought in alien against him. Didn't they? And kind of bought in a different world.

Sidey: they predator too. He has a yeah. Skull

hist he yeah

Reegs: Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: So first time you saw predator.

Reegs: Oh, I don't even know that it would've been in the mid nineties sometime.

Dan: mid. It was. I remember watching it with my brother in just kind of, you know, nighttime settling in and, and begging my dad to get, you know, for weeks and weeks until he relented all.

Okay. You can, you can watch it and loving it. Just

Sidey: I think it's less enjoyable for me when it's just him and AIE left. I like the rest of the,


Dan: the whole

Sidey: Oh fucking brilliant

Reegs: It is good. The ending, but no, the whole bit where he is picking him off one by one. And I saw

Sidey: I saw


Reegs: and all his stories about son.

I can't remember what his name was. The

Dan: Hey, got have to bleed.

Reegs: guy.

Dan: Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah.

Reegs: He was like a total psychopath and they had to hire bodyguards

Sidey: Oh really

Reegs: everybody else from him. Cuz he was just like a complete mentalist. Oh there's loads of crazy stories about that movie.

Dan: Did you ever see any of the sequels or

Sidey: yeah.


Dan: alien versus predator?

Yeah. What's that like? Is any good? I've

Reegs: Yeah. No, I think, yeah, they run the gamut of like awful to dreadful.

Dan: Okay. Yeah. I was thinking there,

Sidey: but

I was online looking at stuff and I saw a picture, a fancy dress photo, someone as predator and someone as the red radar, you know, is


x-ray vision for someone who dressed up as that fucking Brilliant.

So good

Reegs: That is good.

Sidey: It's patchy.

is it?


Reegs: Well you, we were talking about predator and the guy who did that with Sam Winston

Sidey: mm-hmm

Reegs: and he's done a load of stuff that we all love to like terminate aliens the monster squad pumpkin head LA Leviathan, Congo tank, girl. Any of those I could have written about any of those to talk about in these creature, top fives, but it was his work that he did with Rob Botten on the thing that we talked about,

Dan: I was go, I was gonna wonder if anyone was gonna mention some of the films we've we've reviewed recently cuz

Reegs: work really that we all still loved, even though it was made in 1982, still looked disgusting and you know, an abomination and uh

Dan: oh, it was an abomination and it, it, it was up there with not just

the, the clever practical effects in things, but the ideas of what they should form and what they should look like, you know, the, the SP the head with the spider and things like that. Now we are looking at and go, oh yeah, well, that's been done before, but it hadn't then, you know, it was this kind of,

Reegs: and it was a

Dan: that brought it to the screens.

Reegs: know, it was these guys who brought it to life, you

Dan: know? Yeah.

Reegs: had to, and it took a terrible toll as we talked about in our review on particularly Rob bottom.

So the thing, the creature from the thing who's next side.

Sidey: does I I've got another start one, but I'll leave it for now. Talking about something that we watched this week for the kids program there's a character in movements called the gro.


Dan: yeah.


Sidey: Who is essentially the the bad guy from game of Thrones, the night


Reegs: the night king.

Sidey: the 19th because he just freezes everything.

He touches freeze. I think he probably ran makes the dead as well. Yeah. But yeah, cold ruthless killer in amongst a cutey little kids

Dan: Yeah. And that that's right. Little, little gro. We'll probably talk a little more about him later on. Did you ever see district nine? Yeah, so they called him prawns there didn't they? Which was the, the kind of derogatory name given to these asylum seeking aliens that had landed on earth and were living in big ghettos and occasionally visited and raided by armed forces.

Sidey: Yeah I think it was like an analogy for

like something else.


it's pretty soul.

Dan: Yeah. But it was yeah, really. Kind of affecting film actually, when I watch it,

Reegs: I saw it in the cinema and I was blown away by it. I have to say the first I'd seen it, it had that imediacy and realism because of the special effects and the way it was integrated with the moving camera, it was all really clearly shot, but there, it was all kind of handheld and documentary style

Dan: That's right.

Reegs: It goes like crazy P V Hoen style at the end with people' splating around.

Sidey: Yeah.

Reegs: And then, you know, it was a bit of a case of diminishing returns. The more you watched it, you started to pick holes in it a bit, but it was

Dan: no first time was the best time with that.


Reegs: well, I was gonna go for at the end of weird science chat gets turned into like a sort of giant. You know, this movie,

Dan: Yeah. I know the movie I

Sidey: It's

Reegs: brother, bill Paxton,

Sidey: me That's not seen it

Reegs: all right. Check gets turned into this kind of horrible, like shit monster thing.

Right. Okay.

Yeah. And you guys talked about it on the computer hacking scenes thing, and I thought I hadn't sent, put my two pens in cuz I had watched that film like

Dan: of right. Yeah. We mentioned it, but it's been a while. It

Reegs: big fan, I think it watching it back. I do remember there's a part of, bit of dodgy racism where Anthony Michael Hall, impersonates a black guy, so maybe we should watch it for the mid weeker and pull it apart.

But I really loved that movie.

Sidey: Well, someone who I thought of straight away with brilliant mind for coming up with these kind of creatures was Gama Del Toro. Yeah.

Reegs: Yeah.

Sidey: And I suppose. One that we've had nominated already quite a lot online was the Pearlman from Pan's labyrinth, you know, who sits and puts his hands in front of his face and the eyes are on the palms of his hands.

But I really like the stuff in hell boy, too.


The golden army it's got all these really great, like mechanical creative things going around. Yeah,

Reegs: he's got an army of mechanical warriors. hasn't

Sidey: yeah The the golden army artist sort of like clockwork kind of thing.

Reegs: There's a big tree monstery

Sidey: thing Yeah It comes out Yeah.

There's there's I mean loaves, but there's one who, I dunno if he has an actual name himself, he probably does. He has this sort of skull plate thing again with no eyes, but then he has these horns with kind of feathers coming off and in the horns, there's all these eyes. They're just great visual stuff going on in the do Torres's films.

Just amazing.

Reegs: Yeah.

Dan: Super. Yeah. Well similar era invaders from Mars 1953. Do you ever remember this film? I mean, it came on,

Sidey: I don't

Dan: as, as

Sidey: recall it

Dan: a lot. So

Reegs: seen this, but I get, get it confused with another one. So which one is invaders from Mars? Well,

Dan: this one was from marsh and my mastermind of William Cameron men at Menzi low budget.

Sci-fi kind of B movie, but that was the, I'm just showing a picture of the, the alien Martian. Yeah.

Reegs: very big head.

Dan: big heads kind of tentacles coming out well, and it didn't move, didn't speak. It was all kind of almost like the, the early KA and, and kudos from the Simpsons, you know, those kind of inner jar kind of things.

And it's the, yeah, I mean, it's the stuff of nightmares. This one, it was when, when I was a kid, it was just one of those movies that stayed with me and they play on the, the, the TV now. And again, still, it really does stand up. Maybe it's one I'll I'll put forward for a mad Saturday night week. We'll sit down and watch it.

Reegs: Yeah. Yeah. I could be into

Dan: A horror.

Reegs: The ginger dead man was a horror comedy that sort of failed on both accounts which is a shame because with a better director, producer and script, they could make something out of that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a movie about a killer gingerbread man, and that does appeal to me because I do like a movie about an animated thing that comes back to life specifically on a, you know, path of vengeance, like child's play or whatever.

But he is just a giant sort of gingerbread man with meat Cleaver sort of demonic. Smile's really ropey looking creature. It has to be said. Similarly ropey was now, do you, I've gotta get the pronunciation, right. I think it's the Lang Lang.

Remember that Stephen King

Sidey: No

Reegs: It's about these people who get stranded in time and after time has passed, it gets eaten up by these sort of shiny meatball monster things.

Dan: No, God, another one from the mind of Stephen King though. I, it doesn't surprise me. I've not heard of all the stuff that he's done. He's just been so prolific isn't he he's just pushed out. I think we said it was about 250. Like books or films or something. Yeah. Or

Sidey: 40, a lot it was a lot there was a lot

Reegs: And he's got also the ship weasel from that's what they're actually called from dream catcher as well, which is a truly baffling Stephen King movie.

Yeah. They're like this sort of leechy E thing that gest dates inside your stomach and then comes out and it's like got, because your fecal tracked in it and stuff. So it's like literally part shit.

Sidey: Nice.

Reegs: This alien thing called the virus. I think it's called. So yeah.

Sidey: Looking forward to that one dad

Dan: Yeah, it sounds right on my street.

Sidey: Right. I'm gonna go for what I think was my favorite. I think it's the XO morph from Aiden is it's had a few nominations already online. I think it's really like my favorite creature monster, like horror reaction type thing, you know? Yeah. Especially I do really love the sequel thing.

It's absolutely amazing. And that one, you get like the really good bits of the Marines going into the, the facility and the walls have been turned into the, the kind of nest hive thing. And you know, when they find a body and then it suddenly Springs to life and it's like, kill me, kill me. And then as the scene goes on, you just start, start to see them, you know, in the background to start.

Catch up with people and they can fucking kill you in all kinds of really fucking

Reegs: and the design of the creature

Sidey: It's it's celebrated counter HR Geer. Yeah. He it's, his design was like incredibly folic. So they're kind of monstrous. Yes. Killing alien dicks,

Reegs: don't have any eyes that you can see, so there's nothing. And when you hurt them, they're dangerous. It's like, yeah. They're just really alien and unknowable.

Dan: Um Well I'm gonna go big or go. No. Um And no me over and Juliet. Okay.

Sidey: Okay.

Dan: So did you ever see that? No. You never seen it? I only seen it once. No, it's a white, it was a white nom and Julia, it surprised

Reegs: isn't it

Dan: Yeah.

Sidey: Is this a worst time thing?

Reegs: Yeah,

Dan: I he's just talented. What can I say?

He's got, he's got he's got success in those, their fingertips. And this was the classic story of, of Romeo and Juliet. But this time with a, a no and they're funny little creatures, aren't they noms, I mean, we've, we are talking about these made up kind of creatures. Like lepro corns. That would be another one.

I mean, I've got a, a few that I could just rattle off like that.

Reegs: Well there there's the Leor film series as well, which I'm

Sidey: was thinking of doing that as a as a series of midweeks to watch them

Dan: I've never, I've never seen any of them. But. Yeah. I mean, okay. The, the PA lumpers was the other one that I was gonna mention because Charlie and the chocolate factory we've mentioned on here before, but those in particular are just always, when I think of the film and somebody says, say something about first thing, Umpo lumper, you know, just their name

Reegs: it is you calling them creatures that seems racist or something. I don't know. Are they,

Dan: well, they're on per lumpers. What'd you want

Sidey: like slave labor though, isn't it?

Unums yeah.

Dan: Well, no more than in Frager rock, you've got the,

Reegs: doers. It's the same though. What? Just because you can't just go just cuz of one oppressed people. That's of

Dan: of course they're not people we're talking about. Um Lumpers and doers.

Reegs: Well,

Sidey: it's ES

I dunno this is getting

Reegs: controversial I

Dan: people need to let us know what they feel out

Reegs: is actually. Do you know what I'm having a distant memory of you being Muppet prejudiced once before on the show.

Dan: yeah,

maybe I am. Yeah.

Reegs: You don't love them.

Well Starro the conqueror from the most recent suicide squad was this giant starfish thing.

Kaiju thing,

Sidey: okay

Reegs: That's a pretty good creature as was BR fly from David Cronenberg's the fly and we see him going through various changes. And also the horrifying scene that I can still see in my head where she gives birth to the maggot baby. You were talking about Del Toro bla the blade has the disgusting obese Pearl, a

Sidey: sort oh yeah Empire

Reegs: historian, kind of a creature silent hill is an adaptation of a video game that most people said was garbage, but I quite liked and mostly because you don't see a lot of scenes where a guy with a huge metal pyramid on his head stabs at women through a war with a six foot machete.

So you know, not

Dan: not enough for that on daytime TV.

Reegs: Yeah. And then society is a ver an infamous movie. I watched a few years back which I don't actually remember a huge amount about other than

Sidey: Cause I've got this on my mid weekers list.

Reegs: Okay. Have you? Yeah. Okay. So the basic story don't wanna give it, should I give too much away?


Dan: a basic story is like

Reegs: he is a, a teenager, Beverly Hills teenager called Billy and his parents are, are part of some nefarious cult for the rich and elite where the rich kind of really do feed off the poor. And also the last act finds him at

Dan: green thing going on or

Reegs: well, at the last act, finds him going to this crazy sex orgy where there's like, they're all interconnected masses of flesh.

And his father is like a literal asshole as he talks. So so Brian Nerf film, I think it is yeah, it's really quite astonishing if we're gonna watch it for the pod. I'm excited about that.

Sidey: Yeah.

I think it's it's got definite potential right. Rattle through couple here ones that are just slightly bigger in stature than. Gizmo would be the E walks from

return of the Jedi mm-hmm I've said, it before And I said, again, this is where you can track the decline of the star wars franchise.

When you have these little fucking stupid Teddy bears that can take out attacks and storm jus and all that shit with a few sticks and some boulders I'm not having it. Yeah, sure. It's bollocks. But I did like them when I was 10 years


 Falco from the neverending story, he

seems to crop up quite a lot yeah.

Reegs: Sort of dragon Labrador, a a dragor

is that

Sidey: if possibly then I've got N two from the mighty Bush, which is, I suppose, just a Nana, which is

a human

Reegs: there's a few from the mighty boat Bush that you could have I'm

Sidey: Mr Susan

Dan: conversations about mythical creatures can sometimes drag on. But

Reegs: I think Saudi had more, you

Sidey: well I've got my last no actually I've got two more. One of them. It's another Kaiju. Which is the Cloverfield one I think is unnamed. But I really like that movie. In fact, I like all the Clover field


Reegs: Yeah. I do as well to some degree, even, even

Sidey: I'm glad to feel paradox. Yeah Yeah.

I love that one. It's great.

Dan: So Shrek. E's worth mention, of course, is an OGA a green OGA that, that just became bigger than the world itself. Bigger than that. Huge. Just rattling for a few, the little mermaid. I mean, we didn't talk about mermaids much.

Obviously we saw one on the, the film the other week though, didn't we in the lighthouse

Sidey: did quickly yeah

Dan: that rather than more spooky one. And we had Tom Hanks and Darrell Hannah were in splash. Yeah. That made a, not much of a splash, but just about enough to

Sidey: was there a remake of that

Dan: probably, but I don't think either of them were in it, no.

Studio ley,

we've had some fantastic creatures made from, from the minds of the team that comes out of there. And the wizard of odds was another one that I'd, I'd written down, but. Obviously, there's

Sidey: the film in,

Reegs: in general

Dan: just the film in general, you know, the, the odds, the wizard, the lion, you know, the, the tin man.

You can, you can take your, your pick really. Res are you gonna wrap

Reegs: yeah. I mean, you could, I really could have gone on for ages.

Galaxy quest has Tim what's his name? Fight. Yeah. Fighting a rock monster thing. It's loads of cool creatures. The ones in arrival that we talked about on the pod that can see all of time happening all at once. And communicate

Dan: Like

Reegs: whizz. Yeah. I mean, creatures. They're great.


Dan: they? Mm, they are.

Reegs: we, I mean, how long do we want to go for? Cause I honestly, I've got about a hundred more on my

Sidey: we could talk for like hours just about star wars ones.

Dan: I mean, you could talk about ours, just about the ones in labyrinth for something.

Can you, you know,

Sidey: what,

every time that cropped up when I was looking So I thought I'll leave that cuz Dan will have that.

Dan: that. Dan's got it. Dan's got that because

Reegs: as well. Chad,

Dan: as well, charge I asked for so little, just fear me, love me do, as I say, and I'll be your slave, Sarah. Toby's mine

Reegs: should we? I mean, how long have we been going for?

Dan: should hours, days? I

Sidey: not that long It's not that long but I'm, I've got my last one.

Dan: Oh,

Reegs: oh, go on. Let's hear what it is.

Dan: have one more

Sidey: We're going back. We're going back to star Trek. First appearance in was in the next generation. And so I'm going big.

It's the Borg,

Dan: What?

Reegs: Oh,

Dan: big


Sidey: Yeah. Who

straight away like captured the audience's imagination cuz they were this like unstoppable force. And when we first introduced to them, they're in the Delta quadrant you with me which cue snaps his fingers to put them there and then he brings them back. But we've seen the bog and someone else basically the end of the episode is they are coming like, you know, they will arrive and we'll be fucking assimilated.

Like, wow, what's gonna happen. And then there's the one where they take the card.


that was that was the cliff hang at the end of the season,

Reegs: into the movie. Wasn't it?

Sidey: No, it didn't get resolved until the next season. So I think that's between season

Reegs: two, but he got briefly bogged didn't he

Sidey: Borg.

Yeah, it is called the best of both worlds part one and two. But now what we have is a situation where star Trek will kind of be ploting along. And if they bring out the Borg, you know, they're playing their Trump card, you know, that's like, we need to. Get everyone back on side, but then that's your strongest season, right?

Where you've got the, my opinion. So then when you go back to it's like, it's not as good. So

everything falls by the wayside

Reegs: could be good. A cuz they are a good villain, even

Dan: I, I, yeah. I need to revisit these things and lots of these ones, I haven't actually even seen. I was a big fan of the originals and I watched some of the, the earlier Pickard things, but I never really watched it regularly enough to, to follow the

Sidey: the first episode with the Borg. They actually open a draw and there's a Borg baby, like in faring that they actually reproduce. They Don you know, that they're having sex. They're like really? And I think they did it again in Voyager, but strong.

I love the book.

Reegs: I would watch a little animated, like

Borg babies. It's like Muppet babies, but with little Borg children

Dan: I'll, I'll mention teen Wolf

Reegs: mention it Dan,

Dan: because you know, I did avatar Patterson. Well, just to an annoy, Pete, I know it's all about a bus driver, but that was pretty much my.

Reegs: No dozens more dozens more, but I'm not gonna go on anymore. I think we should choose our


movie creature because also next week, the listener I've already seen Twitter has gone completely bizarre berserk even. Yeah. Bizarre.

Sidey: Yeah. No it's it's a good, it's good topic.

Reegs: Mm. People have got lots of creatures to talk about, so let's pick ours.

Dan: Okay, well go for it. Take us, take us away.

Reegs: Oh me, I am going to go with oh, I'm gonna go with bundled. Fly from the fly.

Sidey: Nice. I'm obviously going Borg.

Dan: Well, I'm gonna go the marsh and mastermind from the invaders from Mars.

So we've still got two nominations

Sidey: Yeah we've had a bunch online, but we'll, we'll shout them out next week and, and complet the list.

Dan: Nice.

Sidey: Daniel. Yeah.

Dan: Okay.

Sidey: This is your nomination. Yeah. And I'd never heard of it.

Dan: It came out the blue to me as well, to be honest, it's just something that I'd seen on BBC eye player. And I'm always drawn to these biographical stories really, where

Sidey: where

Dan: you can learn a little bit about somebody's life and

Sidey: so how are you gonna pronounce this? Just Tove.

Reegs: Tove.

Sidey: we gonna be say to slightly more? Yeah. finish than that to

Reegs: I told you earlier of my attempts to say

Welcome to, bad dad's film review

Dan: in some research to that. So I'd like to hear the efforts at least,

Reegs: Yeah. I'd like to hear the efforts at least. No, I haven't got it here anymore.


Dan: but just off the top of your head, you'll you'll remember, I, you tried a little bit, so I know you've got it

Sidey: in That's the, the special Patreon content.

Dan: Okay. Well, this was a a 2020

Sidey: mm-hmm

Dan: I think it was around about that time. And it Tove is the, the story of, to Janson who was the author and artist, the inventor of the movement, which was a fantastic kids TV show when I was a kid. But I knew nothing about her life and I knew nothing actually that Tove Jansen, if you would've said that to me a couple of weeks ago, I wouldn't have known that she'd done the movements, but following this film and this story you learn a lot more about her life.

So You all watched it.

Reegs: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Dan: And well it, you are always good at telling us how it started off

Reegs: Yeah, I do like that because I think a movie we've talked about this before, I think a movie's first shot is quite important. It tells you a lot about it and it does with this one, it starts with gentle piano music, and Tova is dancing sort of free spiritedly in an apartment and someone's crashed out on the sofa.

It's in media res actually it's a scene. We'll come back to later where her politician boyfriend at has proposed to her and she's accepted, but we can come all the way. There's lot, lots of that. So that is the establish she's

Dan: Yeah. And as you say, in, in really kind of Bohemian freedom of expression she's dancing, like she's, you know, nobody's watching and she doesn't care.

Yeah. And exactly how you should dance.

Reegs: Yeah. And then there's like bombs and bomb shelters and babies crying and she's doodling and it's clearly escapism for her. And she's actually writing her first Moin book, the Moins and the great flood. That was the first one that

Dan: Right. Okay. And, and that kind of sets the scene then for the era that we're in, cuz it's around about 1945.

And to living in Finland, which is Russian occupied, I think or is it around there within that kind of Russian empire? At that point, Finland it's is involved in the war in one way, shape or form of course, up there. And Tova is as well, although the film doesn't dwell too much on, on that beyond those first kind of scenes

Reegs: Because it's, it's the end of, of the war. And we see that interspersed with her childhood.

because we see her born into sort of a family of avant-garde artists. Her father and mother are both artists of some repute as, and her siblings are encouraged into it as well.

And then at the same time, as we're seeing her childhood about her and we're becoming aware of her father being a famous sculptor. Yeah. We see her renting a studio as well.

Dan: And it's interesting about her father because he's got these artistic ideals. If, if you like, he's a very traditional kind of sculptor and, and artist, and he, he believes that she's, her drawings are unworthy of her talent. It's not that she isn't talented. I think he, he believes that she has a great talent, but he, he thinks that she's focusing on the, on the wrong things.

And it's, it's a kind of. Father daughter relationship always seems to be having a bit of strain on it as well. Doesn't

Reegs: Yeah

Sidey: really see him. He's always got his back to the camera or he's doing something he's like sitting in that chair, the latest scene. He never looks rounded or he's doing the

Reegs: oh, it's painful that scene.

Sidey: He never really looks at her or, you know, he's quite distant even though he's encouraging her to do something, but it's like on his

Dan: Yes. Yeah. So

Sidey: it's still quite controlling. I thought.

Reegs: So at the same time, as we are seeing this relationship with her father, you know, a sculptor of some repute, we're seeing it, her renting a studio, it's a dilapidated place. Nothing works. There's no heating. She's young and pen Aless penniless artist. Yeah.

She's, there's a sense that the war is kind of depressed her, but she wants to reinvigorate things. She's opening up windows and rebuilding and she wants to create something innocent and pure.

Dan: And, and within herself she has that spirit.

We see it a, a few times and, and just things that she does in the manner that she holds herself and, and things that she says, her, her father's kind of said, you need to concentrate on the paintings. You know, that's where it will be. And, and every now and again, they have these kind of grants that go out from art boards and the like, and he seems to be picking 'em all up and she doesn't get anything.

And there's very little sales, which basically means she just can't support herself.

Reegs: Well, she goes

Dan: she needs to be out of the house because dad's just too controlling. Isn't she? So she does eventually go to move into effectively a bond out building which she makes home.

Reegs: Yes. She, they go to a large country estate where there's a party going on and she meets she's introduced as Victor's daughter to everybody because he's so famous.

Yeah. And she says I'm a bleak shadow of his genius. And she meets Atos. Vertin. He's a member of parliament for the social democratic party of Finland. And he's an opponent of fascism and he's there with his wife and she chats to him over the evening. And there's a bond there. In fact, sort of, she suggests they go for a sauna together and she's explaining her life is her philosophy of life.

It's an adventure you take advantage of its twists and turns. And when he takes his shirt off, he worries that he's not as sculpted as her father's sculptures. Yeah. And she says his work is horribly conventional. It's the only time she comments on his work in the movie, but is an interesting thing.

Dan: Yeah. And, and you get a sense then of, of her as well and, and where she's at. She seems to be very much a person finding her way, finding her art, finding herself and mixing with these kind of Bohemian parties that they're drinking. They're illegal parties. I think they mention that at one.

Oh, good to see you at another one of these illegal parties or, or whatever it is. They look to be having a great time. And it's all those deep and meaningful, artistic meaning of life conversations that people are having in, in different areas. And you're right. This is where she meets a, a guy who's in and out of her life throughout the film.

Reegs: Mm-hmm yeah. Their story is kind of quite sad actually in a way.

Not long after she's got the studio up and running, she's doing a display or a gallery or something, and her father is being a Dick turning one of them around so that he's like, oh, don't show that

Dan: me. He says, trust me. And, and her attitude is exactly what you would like any artist to be like is whoever's given him that, that criticism, she, she just goes, turns it back

Reegs: Yeah, but it's not as if she doesn't care because later she asks Satos do they like me when she sees people looking at her paintings and he says to her, you, you are not your paintings. And she says, yes, I am. And it's very easy to feel that with any kind of expression of art that you are revealing yourself in some way, showing some side of yourself for people.

And you're worried that people gonna go, oh fuck no.

Dan: Well, the, the one piece that got turned over was of a woman smoking and that same piece was kind of looked at by.

The what's the, the name of the, the lady it's VI Vivica Bandler, who is a a seductive upper class woman. Who's become a theater director and she's looking at the gallery and they kind of teased her out of earshot and said, oh, you know, she's rich. And she just thinks she's just playing it, being a theater director

Reegs: right. Yeah.

Dan: But she kind of gets swept off her feet by her a little bit

Reegs: she, she says to her, she commissions her to do a an invitation card for her father's birthday. I think that's right. And they end up at this big wanky party.

Dan: Father's the mayor

Reegs: Father's the mayor and the father belittles, the his daughter Viver for being an artist and she rips him back. She says, oh, in my house, we feel sorry for anyone who isn't an artist, but we need the bourgeois or something. Like she just, and

Dan: who else buys them

Reegs: sort of attracted to that. And they go outside and they share this conversation and then a dance

Dan: and a little bit flirty. And, and she's being a, you know, she's coming onto her.

She's seducing her. Viveca VICA, sorry. Viveca,

Reegs: she's very tall.

Dan: she's very tall. And she's very striking.

Sidey: Yeah. It's quite Foxy

Dan: And, and Tove, you yeah.

Reegs: Bit of Sigourney Weaver about her,

Sidey: a bit SCR actually mention it.


Dan: I. Between the, the two of them, there was some chemistry there and and they kind of wanted them to maybe slip off into the night, but her husband just walks through the door at that time.

And she's kind of shocked. You can see it on her

Sidey: She's pretty close to a kiss

there And then like And,

Dan: and she doesn't quite know the, the situation, but the next day she's the maid almost immediately comes in after that, while she's still outside and said, a room has been made for you, miss Jansen, and the next morning husband's off.

And she goes to the

Sidey: pick up where they left

Dan: the pick up where they left off. Exactly. And exactly what they do do, but it's, it is funny as well. Cuz the maid comes in a little bit later, knocks on the door and, and says, is there anything else you would like? And of course toves bloody hoing bed with another woman puts the covers over her head where as

Reegs: VICA is just, it's obviously clearly. And as we see later, somebody says, OHA

Dan: the first time.

Reegs: Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: The maid's used to it.

Reegs: But meanwhile you know, she

Tova, Tova to, and Attos continued to be together as well. And she talks to him and she says, if I were to have a husband, he should be just like you to him when they go out for a walk on the beach.

And then he ends up being the inspiration for the character snuffin, which we see one morning as she's drawing him in the daylight, as he sleeps next to her. And she has to pay her rent with one of her paintings anyway where

Dan: a classic artist thing, isn't it? You know somebody ends up with like a, you know, I know

Vango or something because he couldn' pay the rent.

And all of a sudden he's,

Reegs: yeah, yeah, yeah. There probably was that going on? Tove and Vivica come up with these like names Bob and thingy. Yeah. And they exchanged the consonants in the sentences, like saying, give me a grist instead of, and then that finds its way into her art.

Dan: into movements. I wasn't sure which way that came round, because all the time through this, we've got her doodling and, and kind of just

Reegs: well, she's putting more and more work into her doodles and less into her paintings

Dan: and, and building a whole world.

And you know, a little bit later on, maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but Vivica starts to see this work and she's really interested in it as well. It's also she's she starts to become a little unhappy that the love that she feels for Vivica isn't

Sidey: Yeah So she's got the the two.

Dan: Yeah A man

Sidey: she's certainly like infatuated or falling in love with

Vivica Yeah.

Whereas the other guy just seems to be the more conventional side of her, where she's sort of a little bit trying to conform.

Reegs: Well, Vi's already said to her, there's quite an advantage to having a husband


Dan: I mean the time and the place meant probably that people were frowning on same sex relationships.


Sidey: Well also Faires, you know, he's married.

Dan: Yeah. Although he, he,

Reegs: he it's all modern though. Didn't it? Because the wife phones him at at toves place at toss wife,

Dan: that's right.

Reegs: at toves place.

Dan: he says, oh, I've gotta go. And, and off he goes. Yeah. And no, one's all too bothered by that. Are they?

Reegs: So yeah. It's interesting.

We do get to the bit where, where Vivica finds her mum in doodles and encourages her. And she says, this is important. It's interesting though. At first I watched it, I Tova is insulted at first. She says, that's just what I do for a living, because she does sort of cartoons for a socialist paper to piss off her father, basically just to pay the bills.

And it's like a shock to her. It's like, you know, when like a musician's least favorite song is their biggest hit sort of thing.


she's shocked by this sort of thing. And then when Vivica fucks off to, to Paris and Tove can't afford to go with her you know, that suddenly makes things complicated.

Dan: Yeah. She, she takes on a job that I think VICA sets up for her, but it's such a big job that she hasn't time to finish it before.

She's back from

Reegs: Yeah.

So fresco for the city hall.

Dan: And by then VICA hasn't hung around then she's turned up with some,

dancer a French dancer. Yeah, the Theran that's

Sidey: she yeah And she, she comes through with another lady. And it's all awkward and embarrassing and kind of sad because, you know, she's standing there with a flower it's like Ross and friends

Dan: and, and they say, oh, well, come to the party. Everyone's invited. And sure enough, there is a, a kind of welcoming party back at our place and yeah. And they kind of have that, that relationship don't they, where it's, it is love, hate, and Viveka can't really why

VE I dunno, I dunno.

I've just changed her name,

Sidey: Well she says, can I, can I stay the night? Didn't she? Yeah. So even with this other woman in Tae, she's just like, I started to really dislike her.

You Viv. Yeah.

Reegs: Yeah. What about

Dan: Viver yeah.

Sidey: She was okay.

Dan: was

Reegs: it's one of numerous times they play sing, sing, sing by Benny Goodman.

Dan: Yeah. Did, did you listen to the soundtrack cuz normally you do don't you throughout the week?

Reegs: yeah, I mean, it was this song about five times cuz they do play it a lot, but yeah, it was okay. Yeah. I've

Dan: I've got some Benny Goodman on, on records. I like him.

Reegs: Vivica talks to her about commissioning a musical.

Sidey: Yeah.

Reegs: a

Dan: A move's musical,

Sidey: the play.

Reegs: Yeah. And, but Tove thinks it's more about pre placating, her using her wealth to, you know, to, to kind of stop her commitment to her. Yeah. And they all get smashed and it's become clear that Viv, shagged, everyone, like you said.

And then Tove kind of withdraws a little bit into her relationship with ATTO.

Dan: Well, she does that, that almost sparks her saying cuz he's just divorced.

Sidey: He said, yeah. He says, you know, I'm, I've

Dan: I'm ready

Sidey: for a divorce and we can get married basically.

Dan: And, and she, she wasn't sure first, but then after realizing Vi's, , Vivica's you know, extra relationships that had wound her up, she said, why actually let's get married and.

Goes and does it, and they get they're married for probably 12 or 12 hours. I was gonna say before she says, oh, this

Sidey: fucked it

Dan: a good idea.

Reegs: He's crushed by it.

Dan: He is,

Reegs: fallen in love with her, but I don't think it's unexpected

Dan: but the, the, the narrative kind of allows you to believe there's a, a, a kind of poignancy there.

That means that they remained friends. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't a, a massive wild argument.

Reegs: was always their relationship. Yeah. He was kind of a safety net for her. And yeah.

We see the stage production of the, the moon in things, people in freaky, great testicle, chin

Sidey: costumes.


Reegs: And at the end of the scene, when everyone's whooping and cheering, she looks up and sees her father leaving just during the, the, the cheers of, of Bravo awful scene. And she smashes up some of her art in frustration at the end. Yeah.

Dan: Dad's never really had her back as far as the, the movements.

And you think it's I mean, now it's been exported into different countries and all around the world, a lot more famous than anything. Her father

Sidey: you go over that part of the world?

It's just everywhere, you know?

Reegs: Well, she goes to, I mean, she goes to meet the head of the associated press, the evening news guy, and they talk about, she gives, you know, she signs the contract and she says, oh, that's a nice amount of month.

And he's like, ha no, that's a week. Yeah. Alright. Okay.

Okay. she's so she set up for

Dan: oh, I'll enjoy seeing a comic strip every week for the next seven years or six a week for the

Sidey: next yeah Six a week He

Dan: Yeah.

Reegs: It's still a good recurring theme of this as well. Cuz he says to her, what was your inspiration?

And she says, oh, I failed as an artist. And so she sees this thing that she's created and she's gone full movement at this point now, cuz she's got the whole, you know, comic books and all sorts of shit going on and she's roped her younger brother in to help with some of it. Yeah. And she's made enough money to go to Paris now and, and look for her friend, Sam that we met earlier and didn't mention and his art display where he, where she meets two leaky.

Dan: that's

Reegs: It was very keen on her straight way.

Sidey: Toy

Dan: Ella.

Reegs: Yeah.

Dan: That, I think that's perfect.

Reegs: That was pretty

Sidey: on it said bang

Reegs: That sounded pretty good. She's real keen. They go out to get party. They start getting smashed again, and then there's, vior in bright red. Yeah. Dancing and slow motion. And she sees her across the room and she introduces her new lady friend.

And eventually Tove kind of blows it all off and they run down by the canal and she professes her love for her. And she can't say it back to her Vivica.

Dan: And she realizes then and that this relationship isn't going anywhere. And I think she walked out and for once Vivica has called her back and she's just not listened.

You said, no.

Reegs: well, she she's ended it on her terms. Yeah. Cuz they've had a final flinging and VI and Vivica's called her back.

Dan: and she's not coming this time. And she ends up going back with Toka, who's her partner then to the rest of her life, you know?

Reegs: And she was very keen. They were very, yeah. You know, wanted to point that out.

And then right at the end, right. At the end, we get this terribly sad moment after Toby's father has died. And we find that he'd kept a scrapbook of everything

she'd ever

done. All of her cartoons and she cries and he gets you right in the fields and you're like, this stuff happens. And what the fuck?

Just tell them while they're still there. Jesus

Dan: Christ. Yeah, no, that you're right. You're right. It's he was such a, a hard kind of cold character, but within that, his love for his daughter

Sidey: it's just repressed and he wasn't he just couldn't express it out.

loud Yeah.

Dan: And, and he's, he'd kept that, you know, every little clipping in all the different languages, he could find anything that said movement or her name. It was in this kind of book and the way mom what's this and mom said, have a look, you know, I'm not even a tell you just have a look. And, and within a couple of pages turning she's just in floods of tears as

There was dust then in my eye as

Reegs: Yeah. Well, I, the, I was like, I'm almost going again, just thinking about it because some of the themes about not being able to express yourself and, you know, you know, there was some good thematic content here.

I'm not gonna say that is the end of the movie, by the way. I'm not gonna say that this is one that you're gonna have to fucking rush out and see or anything, but,

Dan: it, you know?

Sidey: it's Yeah, that for me, It's okay. It it's good. It is good. It's well made. Well, but the story, it is very small in terms of scale. I know that she's massively successful. Her art is like ubiquitous. You just see it everywhere over there, but in, you know, it's just one person and a couple of relationships.

So if that, you know, that might not grasp you. I, I, it quite small scale and it, and I was okay with it, but like, it's hard to like really encourage people to go out and watch, I would say,

Reegs: yeah, I, when I talk about it though, there's loads of

Sidey: interesting

Reegs: things like

Sidey: I probably enjoyed it more talking about it

than I did

Reegs: Well, cause it's a real person's life and she was in love with someone who liked her and that's an always an interesting thing. And then she, you know, she was expressing her sexuality and it affected her art and she was sort of ashamed and saw it as a job, her expression, but she created this

Dan: well that's it she's

Reegs: into her career.

Dan: She she's invented this incredible thing, but doesn't feel like any success around it really does.

She, I mean, it's all very much. Oh, you know, it could have been better or it could have been something else that's coming

Reegs: and her search, I guess her search for love is interesting as well. We don't have a lot of we've talked.

We've had quite a few gay things and a bit of bisexuals, but I dunno if we've had some strong lesbian content before, so.

I think

Dan: yeah. I mean, but maybe more happy with a, a female. Well, that's who she spent with the, the rest of her life with

Yeah. Yeah, no, all good. This broke record as the most seen finished film in Finland in 2020 it was also selected to represent Finland in the race for the best foreign language feature film at the

Sidey: Yes They put it up for, for your consideration, but it didn't,

Dan: it didn't

Sidey: get a nomination

Dan: a, a norm. But still, it's the, the one that was chosen to represent is gone to more than 50 territories as well. I mean, the, so I think there is an interest within this, this lady's life primarily cuz you know, I suppose a lot of people, I imagine a lot of people don't know who she was, you know, would know the movements, but not necessarily know who she was.

So I was really, really fascinated with, I knew nothing about it and the way that she lived her life at that time in, in that kind of spirit with all that shit going on, I, I just had such kind of respect for her. I really liked her. I just thought she's a really cool, interesting person that just sees wandering things and is able to, you know, within her own life, I think enjoying nature, being outside adventurous just enjoying the simple things, all comes into movements and Moin valley and, and just those kind of themes carrying on.

So yeah, I, I really like this film. I didn't see it or or know anything about it before I mentioned it. I, I just saw it and thought, oh, I'm gonna. It was nomination time. And I was looking at it, I thought, right. We'll have that. Cuz I was gonna go for hustle. Which was the, the Sandler film which I'd watched a little while back, but I thought, no, I'll see something new.

And I'm really, really pleased. I did. I do like these films, if you do like these biography films then I think this is one that, that you might be interested in.

Reegs: Yeah. Knowing now that the Moins is about to herself, freeing herself from the shackles of her father, unleashing her actual artistic vision, finding herself sexually liberating herself.

And the journeys that she's been on is quite fascinating stuff. And it's gonna make it really weird because the notes I did, I watched before all that fascinating stuff about what we watched for the kids thing. And that is freaky as shit. So and my notes are probably not gonna talk about it in the kind of kind detail cuz it was cold watched cold and it's very odd.

Dan: Yeah, it, it, we will. But for me, you know, this film it, it is well made the acting's top notch. I thought that is it Alma? Poist

Reegs: She's fantastic.

Dan: she, in the lead role, she was, she was brilliant

Reegs: And she's often got this kind of like inscrutable quality where you don't quite know what she's thinking.

And it works really, really well. Cause she's often like a bit ni naive, a bit lost and

Dan: a little curl of a smile on her lips and things.

Reegs: she was such a free spirit. We didn't talk about that either,

Dan: and so you shouldn't expect anything too dramatic or intense with, with twists and turns and things. But if you're interested in just watching you know, a 90 minute film

Sidey: good Sunday night movie I'd

Dan: Sunday night movie then this might be one, the checkout, I

Reegs: Yeah.

Dan: Moin valley,

Sidey: strong Moin content this week.

Dan: What a great name it is.

Sidey: Yeah. It's good. Moin.

Dan: Moin. Yeah.

Reegs: My honest recollection before any of this was I had a vague, like knowledge of a flump, like yeah. Character. And I couldn't really remember anything about it at all. If you'd put a gun to my head and tell and said to me, tell me something else about it. I'd have said. They make fluky poo noises, like the

Sidey: like is

Reegs: and I'd been totally wrong. Wouldn't I?

Dan: Yeah. Well I wouldn't have remembered a lot about it. Other than it, it kind of looked like a white hippo.

Sidey: yes, Kind of like a Bal hippo.

Dan: Yeah.

I dunno, who else is like that? What was that? Purple dinosaur.


that purple dinosaur Barney he had that kind of, but he's a bit bigger than movements. Aren't he they're

Sidey: Dan

Dan: bit

Reegs: and, and a different medium as well, but

Dan: yeah.

Well I think they they've changed,

you know

Sidey: that's completely the same

Reegs: white hippo thing. Yeah. And he lives in mooning house with Moin, Papa and Moin mama. And we get these like slow pans over still frames. They're quite nice to look at.

Sidey: really nice. I loved it.


Reegs: And

some music and the narrator says, first, we need to wake everybody up a moon in wakes yawning and goes to the window.

And it's spring. It's very exciting. And little may I think is the character's name. She's woken up and she's not happy about it. She was

Sidey: she's raging

Reegs: yeah. She was dreaming about living in a watermelon and she's literally full of the joy of Springs. Movement is

Dan: yeah, she, she heads off out for a little wonder. Didn't she?

And she sees a friend of hers. Is it snuff? Kin snuff. Kin.

Reegs: Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Who's kind of like a, a free spirit. A, a traveler. Yeah. With one of those kind of Robin hat, Robin hood hats on yeah. You know, if you eat mozzarella in Finland, they think that's Moin and you eat Moin min meat.

Sidey: Oh really? I was expecting a dad joke

Dan: no, no, that

Sidey: no Right Okay

Dan: that's just a little moon.

In fact,

Reegs: I have actually been to Finland. I should probably have talked about this really shouldn't I and Helsinki where a lot of

Sidey: okay I've not been Helsinki I've, I've been to Finland in that we went to Lapland and we were in the Finn bit of Lapland, but

I'd like

I didn't see any movement. Trolls.

I would've like to

Dan: Estonia is the closest I've I've ever got.

You speak, you speak a little finish, I believe res tur


Reegs: uh Teve, OA, bad dads,

Ava ster. which might be welcome to bad. Dad's film review, according to Google translate, at least they didn't have words for bad or dads, which seems improbable.

Dan: They don't have any word for bad or

Reegs: No.

Dan: Wow.

Reegs: but yeah, we, long before we had kids I won a thing where I got to a voucher to do something extraordinary. So we got to go to Helsinki for new year and celebrate a new year

Dan: You

Reegs: went to some yeah. Work thing. It was good. And then we went chasing the Northern lights up at KA out and up in, right up in the north.

And it was great, but we didn't see them. But

Dan: but um didn't see the movements.


Sidey: the

Reegs: the movements. No, but the finished people were nice. They, we had a dessert there that was sweet corn in a bowl of like coconut milk with a bit of sugar in it No

no it was awful. We

Sidey: had one. This is, but this is in Copenhagen, so different country, but we had it was mashed potato.

But it was incredible. Okay. Yeah.


Reegs: Okay. What was sugar on it? Or something can

Sidey: I couldn't. Because this was at NoMo, which

the time was the number one restaurant in the world and norm who I was there with had had effectively a seizure.

And so once we'd established that, he was actually okay. I got to eat his as well,


that was good.

Dan: okay.

Reegs: and

Sidey: nothing to do

Dan: Thank

Reegs: as that, but,

Dan: interesting. I can't say that I've had any desserts to, to beat that, but I wonder if the listers have, what is your weirdest dessert you've ever had?

Reegs: But Finland was a very nice place. Helsinki was lovely. Expensive though. And alcohol was extremely expensive. But it was good because of

Dan: Did you see much Moin stuff there? I don't

Reegs: I don't remember it being big ING content, but if I went back with a more Moin focused eye

Sidey: I'll tell you where I tell you where you see it.

And I remember seeing loads of it in Stockholm at the airport. You know, you like the gift shop it's cuz that's the kind of thing. Oh, this is famous. So take some home with you. You know's that

Dan: Yeah. I, I think even though she was finished, I think. Was Sweden that really catapulted her career in the success of the movements. I dunno whether that was because the, the newspaper that she signed up with was global and they kind of really latched onto it and kind of took it in as their own.

Reegs: In the movie, he says he's from the evening news, I think, which sounded so generic. I didn't know if it was real. Anyway, should we get back to the,

Sidey: the actual thing that we watch for the kids?


Reegs: They're climbing a mountain. Everybody's waking up from hibernation into the spring.

They see their house in the distance, but they also see a top hat at the peak. And they steal the hat and take it back with them.

Dan: Well, did they steal it or they find it,

Reegs: they find it and then they take it. It's not their hat. Isn't it? I mean, I consider that stealing. If you went and found a hat, would you go and take a hat?

Would you

Dan: remind me where they found it on

Reegs: top of a mountain?

Dan: right?

Sidey: What kind of hat

Dan: Was there anybody else there?

Sidey: I take it

Reegs: it. No,

Dan: no. But is all, all the same. I bet they wish they didn't take it.

Reegs: Yeah. Well they go home and there's some, yes, , there's some joviality it's too big. Even for the dad, he puts it on and it covers his eyes and he comically bumbles around.

And they dunno what to do. It's too good to throw it away and they dunno what to do with it. But mama knows what to do with it. They turn it into a bin, a bin and she says, oh, does anybody know what to do with it? And snuff can guesses it

Dan: I just apologize to all Bens?

Reegs: Yeah. Sorry,

Yeah. But then when they leave the hat pulses, menacingly.

Sidey: Mm.

Reegs: And there's some rubbish on the floor which the dad puts in the hat. And when he does it glows pink and purple and then a huge mushroom cloud of smoke erupts out of it. And then white purple light emanates from the hat and the smoke goes out and forms these clouds, which lifts move in and little may up into the sky.

And the other one snor maiden is her name. I found out

Sidey: Yeah it's a cool name.

Reegs: name Yeah. They, they go off into the sky, even the little tiny mouse thing. There's a guy called Al Papa. Who's writing his memoirs. He's a, he's a real Dick who I realize later must be her father. Yeah. And he's trying to remember everything that's ever happened to him, according to the narrator, which is good.

Tell me everything that's ever happened to you.

And they're flying around and one of them crashes into a tree and then they get back. It all starts drifting back to the tree and then Moin hides in the hat.

Which just seems crazy. Yeah. When they're playing hide and seat, that's it, they have a game of hide and seat don't they?

And Moin hides in the hat

Dan: which is a great spot because nobody finds him.

They find everyone else. And they just simply can't find him, but then they hear a bit laughing. And lo and behold he's in the hat, but when he gets out the hat, he's not looking very moving. And this is quite a, it was, you know,

Reegs: genuinely horrified when he came

Dan: out. So it's like Gollum or something, a red Gollum.

Reegs: It's like this half foreign, like pink skinned. It's like gobbling.

Dan: Yeah, it's been, it is like it's been skinned or whatever it is. And it's, it's really kind of weird looking.

Reegs: felt there's kind of a creepy vibe. Snuff can, what the fuck he's got that rich baritone voice.

It sounds completely weird coming out of it's obviously Attos voice. And yeah, I dunno. It is really he's. He doesn't realize at first that

Dan: no, well, he is got, he's got his, he's got his own voice. Oh, it appears to, to be his voice.

Sidey: Like Brun obviously

like a Brundle fly kind of

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. And he's he's sort of appealing to the people in the room that it is him. It is him, you know, cuz they don't believe it.

So what have you done? What have you done with movement control? Where is he? And it's only that moment with mom who just takes her because even

Reegs: well, he sees himself in the mirror and it like drives him completely insane. He's pounding the floor.

Like it's just completely changed. Now. The total vibe of the thing has gone into like a horror movie.

Dan: he keeps it did didn't it?

He keeps on asking you gotta believe me. You gotta

Reegs: and like

Dan: And, and then finally mom holds him, looks into his eyes and says. Yes, you are my movement troll and gives him a hug and, and slowly he,

Reegs: disgusting rat creature

Dan: Just a mother's lover, isn't it. And he, he, he kind of starts changing back then before their eyes.

Yeah, maybe

Reegs: love can turn you back

Dan: Yeah. That's what it needed.

Reegs: Yeah. And then they take the evil hat and then they just put it under a bridge

Dan: and

Reegs: which is pretty careless cuz they should destroy the fucking thing.

Look what just happened to they

Dan: see it float down the river? Well, there's a lot of episodes, so I'm not sure that this hat doesn't make another appearance in this.

And the, the one that I'd said to watch, which was season one, episode one. And I found it on YouTube. Yeah. It wasn't the one that I remembered seeing when I was a, a kid which I remember being a little more fluffy and It was a different animation. Maybe it was just a different episode. And I hadn't seen this one before, because it was an early one for me, the movements,

Sidey: it first

started this episode, there's a lot of snowy landscape shots and


And, and the, the score is really, really good. I thought I was getting like Ji studio,

gly vibes a

little bit from It like an early primitive, like, or if they did a, a TV show, it would look something like this.

And it would really

good Mm-hmm really

Dan: like, yeah. The animation was just like that.

Reegs: but the hat transmogrifying thing, I don't know if we've really got across, like what a jarring bit

Dan: switch.

Yeah. It was almost

Reegs: turns into this horrifying, like Twilight zone style

Dan: And it's right towards the end, rather than at the beginning where you think there's gonna be plenty of time for it to resolve itself. It's almost like there was two cartoons or whatever. It was 20 minutes long, wasn't it? So whether this was in two parts or the adverts would've split that up in some way.

But yeah, you're right. It was horrifying. It was . I watched this with my daughter who who was kind of into it from the beginning, but it did

Reegs: What did she think of the horribleness? Um well

Dan: well, she kind of just turned away by this stage. She wasn't really, yeah, she

Sidey: was yeah I watched it at my totem Unfortunately

Reegs: I watched it with my wife my wife and my youngest was there as well. And I sort of tried to encourage her because, you know, we were all watching it, but she wanted to do something else and I was really glad at the end cause I

Dan: Yeah, just

Reegs: that Yeah. So moonman over the course of the stories does kind of develop and grow and his relationships grow. He he's with snor maiden, isn't he? That's his bow.

Sidey: Well, fingers are,

Reegs: What fingers? Well, I dunno if there is any specific fingering, but then also snuff kin also gets involved. And I wondered if there was some

Sidey: oh menage

Reegs: dog style grooming move in.

Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: And then we, we, we talked a little bit earlier about the, the broing wasn't it? The

Sidey: yes

Dan: the, the gro

Sidey: Yeah the night king Yeah.

Dan: And

Sidey: And he's told as a sort of parable to kids to, to make them behave and not go out, but it's actually real. Yeah. It's a true, it's a true thing in their world.

Dan: There, there is kind of a, a little darkness around Moin valley. Isn't there with these

Reegs: Well this was horror. this, was

Dan: are you interested to watch more though? Would you, would you see more because you like horror? I mean, you know, you're not expecting it in a Moin cartoon,

Reegs: probably, I gotta be honest and say probably not, but I have enjoyed my little at first I thought, oh, movement theme, weed.

That's. Yeah. And then but yeah, it turned out to be alright. I enjoyed finding out about Tove and finding about how, how it all influenced each other. So yeah, Richard, for the experience you might say, Dan,

Sidey: you may be interested to learn then that there's a moon in world theme park that you could visit and also moon in ice cave.

So it's really Finland. Well guess so

Reegs: So I've gotta go back.

Sidey: That one is definitely the icecap is definitely in Finland.

Reegs: I can absolutely see why people really adore this. I can totally see that the art is beautiful. And the weirdness just in this first episode, if that continues with, you know, the outlandishness or whatever, then I'm, I can absolutely see it.

I just it's,

Dan: Yeah. I mean, different adventures and discoveries about life. It, it goes through these weird. Situations and things, but you look at it, you know, somebody doesn't see you for who you are and you can't get recognized. And I think kids can relate to that. Certain people can relate to that as well.

Reegs: Horrifying rat creature.

Dan: it wasn't a weird spooky, but yeah, maybe not for the, the youngest of kids, but you, you know, when they're getting a little bit older, they might fancy something a little edgier. And I think this could be it.

Sidey: Cool.

Well, we are expecting nominations from Pete imminently for next week.

Reegs: we've got them actually Sidy. Yeah, we have actually, I've got them right here. Okay, cool. In fact we're going for, well, let's see if you understand where this is going. So we're going for the top five cages,

and then, well, cages he's put cages, then we've got the unbearable weight of massive talent.

yeah. The kids thing's gonna be the history of swearing. right. And the mid weeker is Jeff kitchen's listener suggestion face off.

Sidey: Okay.

Reegs: So it is a Nick cage full week of Nick cage.

Sidey: Thank God. There's no con air.

Reegs: yeah, yeah.

Sidey: right Well I'm I'm here for it. That's good.

I'm excited.

Dan: Yeah. Well, let's

Sidey: Well, I've been a bit of a, a cage convert recently. Okay. So Colorado of shape pig.

Reegs: Oh, you watch color

Sidey: shape Yeah. Some other things. So, you know, I'm on board, I'm on board,

Dan: right. Let's

Sidey: I know he done has troll me, but he's lost this

Reegs: round. all right.

Sidey: So that's good. Make sure you tune in for that. Thanks again to Charlie, even though that potentially could all go TIS up and then this will make no sense.

Yeah. But the midweek episode for the Barry excellence, Cinderella

Reegs: well we could, or another

Sidey: or completely dreadful

Reegs: another version you could edit it later. Ha oh, I can't believe that all went wrong.

Sidey: Yeah, exactly. So delete as appropriate. All that remains is to say Saudi signing out,

Reegs: reeks out. Dad's

Dan: gone.