May 27, 2022

Hold The Dark & Surf's Up

Hold The Dark & Surf's Up
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When you think about scenes in movies, boiling water never is too far from the screen. Tropes such as demanding that someone grabs hot water and towels when babies are born or directors using the whistling effect of a boiling kettle to signify tension seem ubiquitous and there's always the numerous horror movies where some poor victim receives a splash of the hot stuff to relate. Not to mention FATAL ATTRACTION of course. With that said when we came to discuss the Top 5 Scenes with Boiling Water, we collectively struggled to remember a single film, scene, or line of dialogue anywhere, from any movie or tv show that was about the subject so join us as we muddle through that.
Howie's Netflix menu paralysis resulted in us watching HOLD THE DARK. When Medora Sloane's 6-year-old son is abducted from the remote Alaskan town of Keelut, she asks author and wolf expert Russell Core (Jeffrey Wright) to help track down the pack responsible. As her husband Vernon (an intense Alexander Skarsgård) returns injured from active combat duty to join the hunt, distressing revelations being to emerge. Director Jeremy Saulnier and writer Macon Blair (I DON'T FEEL AT HOME IN THIS WORLD ANYMORE) bring us this dense examination of human behaviour with strong cinematography and occasional explosive outbursts of brutal violence. Grim, bleak and utterly devoid of humour I found this one sometimes narratively incoherent and without a strong emotional performance or character to connect to.
SURF'S UP sees aspiring penguin professional surfer Cody Maverick competing against the world’s best in the Big Z Memorial surfing contest, including 9-time former champion Tank "The Shredder" Evans and dim-witted stoner Chicken Joe. After being stung by a sea urchin named Ivan, lifeguard Lani takes Cody to meet her uncle Geek but what does all this have to do with the disappearance of Cody's inspiration, Big Z? I don't know but I bet it won't be that they are the same person, Zeke having faked his own death to avoid having to deal with the humiliation of becoming second best at the sport he loves. Although I wouldn't bet a lot on that. Or anything. With a strong ensemble cast including Jeff Bridges, Zooey Deschanel, Diedrich Bader, Jon Heder and a memorable turn from James Woods as an ambitious otter and a genuinely novel and ambitious mockumentary aesthetic, incredible water effects and an improvisation heavy approach this was enjoyed by us all.

We love to hear from our listeners! By which I mean we tolerate it. Try us on twitter @dads_film, on Facebook Bad Dads Film Review or on our website
Until next time, we remain...
Bad Dads


Hold The Dark

Reegs: Welcome to about dad's film review, just Jonathan Simon, Daniel, Peter, and Matthew bringing the latest movie reviews within depth, scoops interviews, and more by which I mean, actually quite a lot less in that we're reviewing a movie that's four years old and I doubt anyone else has ever heard of, and we don't have any interviews or scoops or anything like that right now.

Now according to people much clever than me, which includes most folk anyway, only a small percentage of the total mass in the universe can be accounted for, with the rest made up of things called dark matter and dark energy, which, because it doesn't interact with anything in any observable ways.

Just a cool way of saying we don't know, But whatever it is, it's there because calculations which accurately describe how galaxies behave would otherwise not work, where it not for these giant unseen clumps of unknown matter. Anyway, dark matter, doesn't just exist in the vast swathes of the cosmos it's right here, inside and between you and me, millions of people who essentially consist of dark.

People who listened to you too. For example, we ever met a real life U2 fan. No, of course you haven't. They don't exist. They're trapped between universes in an ultimate dimension where they're considered acceptable rather than oral drama. I bring this up because for some reason Matthew's choices this week all seem to have fallen into that collective place of dark matter.

As we discussed the top five scenes with boiling water, and I think we've all collectively agreed. We can't remember any, not a single one. Not a single film scene or line of dialogue, anywhere from any movie or TV show that was about boiling water. So that could be interesting this week. And then we move on to the moody Netflix thriller hold the dark, which I'd also never heard of and finish things up with a bonus feature film review, the Sony pictures, animation surfs up, which it turns out I hadn't seen and thought it was another movie happy feet.

So that just leads us this with this week stance to introduce first up, we have Jonathan.

And w we saw, you're looking resplendent in a matching floral pink shorts and short sleeve shirt combo.

Sidey: Yes. I was off to a barbecue in the rain.

So I thought I'd just bring a bit of color to proceedings.


Dan: yeah. That warmed his up.

Actually. That was, it was a lovely

Reegs: you looked lovely.


Sidey: maybe I should tweet it.

Reegs: you should do, you should do. The listeners would like to see that.

Sidey: Friday.

Reegs: And of course we have Matthew and myself, Simon and Daniel.


Dan: Did you get to watch anything this week beyond the homework?

Reegs: Just, this is us. I don't know whether you've seen that the it's like an emotional syrupy drama thing, but it's really well done.

Very well written. Very well acted. It's on Amazon prime. Yeah.

So we're gearing up to the end of that. It's been six seasons of emotional roller coasters.

Dan: Yeah. Do you watch that alone?

Reegs: No, that's one for the, the, you know, the, the wife and I both enjoy. It's good. Yeah. It really tugs at the heartstrings.

Dan: Okay. Why, what about you? Jonathan

Sidey: our daughter was

taken from us on Friday, so we took the opportunity, not in a McCann way. She went, she was with the grandparents. W we, we, went, we went to the cinema to watch Dr. Strangelove and the multiverse of of blandness neither of us particularly enjoyed

Dan: Yeah. My boy went to see that as well. And he said there was absolutely nothing at stake the whole way through the film. And he

Sidey: dunno if I've just like starting to get into Marvel


now, or, you know, it's just the, after the finalist and the end game, everything just feels a little bit.


tired and a bit, like, yeah, second best, it was just, just didn't really care for it. You know, Because there's cameos and stuff and just like, yeah. okay. But what I did watch, which is fucking excellent was, a Chippendale.

rescue Rangers. It's it's like a modern day. Roger rabbit Fucking outstanding. Yeah It's on, it's on Disney plus.

So they've rebooted it and it's just, I hadn't read nothing about


I knew nothing. I just put it on because it was dinner time. I wanted something to watch when I'm sick of all the other shit they'd been watching,


thought let's just put this on and I can just ignore it. It was fucking ex has got like south park characters in it.

It's like in like

loads. Of course.

Howie: It's called the ugly Sonic.

Sidey: I thought That was really cool. It's got actual Roger rabbit appears in it. It's just, yeah.

Reegs: it's got like blended different types of

Sidey: yeah Yeah. It's definitely worth it.

Dan: I always used to like it as a kid, you know, when they used to mix cartoons with the real world and

Reegs: Yeah. But then there's other things going on as well. Isn't

Sidey: as long as you get stuff Yeah It's definitely

Dan: interesting.

Howie: and it's not two jokes for the parents. There is some that the kids just probably kids really liked it. I've got into just starting watching Brooklyn nine, nine again from the start and the new Vikings Valhalla, which I think is the prequel to the successful Viking series, which is quite

Sidey: good.

Howie: So that's cool. That's a quite gory.

Reegs: I never seen any of that.

Howie: Well, I'm not one for it, but it was on watched it, enjoyed it. And I'd like to add that I too have been watching the.

Sidey: I've spent Everett.

Howie: I

Sidey: I stoled on it. I've been too busy if

I want to I'm

Howie: I've stalled too, but it's just nuts. I don't, I can't make a decision about it. It's the weirdest thing I've ever said. I can't make a decision about

Dan: I think you just kind of watch another one and say, I'll make a decision next time then. And soon the, the series is, is going to be over. Which is what happened to me with LA Lakers winning time.

If you've got sky watch that, do yourself a favor. It's it's just fantastic. Really, really enjoyed that. 10 episodes in that series. Hopefully they'll do another one. And I didn't really get to watch much more other than ghost rider, which is in our midweek watch that and, and the movies we're watching we're reviewing a little bit today because we had, obviously with a kid's choice, it was a movie rather than that 10, 15 minute

Sidey: Yeah So I had I had three movies because I hadn't seen ghost rider and I hadn't seen any of these tests. I had to


triple threat Yeah.

Howie: For homework night. Apologies. Not really fuck off.

Dan: Last week we had a top five area was all around the Razzies and we decided we'd talked about a lot of the films that Razzies had dragged into their horrible little awards ceremony.

Sidey: Darren lethally came in hard saying that it was a load

of shit

film snobbery basically at its worst which I think we

basically all agreed.

with that.

Dan: Yeah. And and then we decided to save a few films and people and places and things from, from Razzie dumb. And what did

Sidey: well breached. It brought to our attention that Adam Simon had been nominated 11 times, I think in one year for various different things. that he was an or, or associate

with So we're going to

Dan: this kind of thing that just for me, makes the Razzies lose any legitimacy or they would just go overboard with all these things.

It's not just a one film and one you can.

Sidey: Yeah. I think if you don't like something, just fucking keep it yourself and don't like it, like, you know, you don't have to fucking pilot So

anyway we're going to we are going to with the power vested in us, save. Adam sander on behalf of breaches, I think should approve of that, right? Let's get


  1. Cause you nominated a, an almost impossible category for us. So we really had to think hard


Howie: top five boiling water.

Reegs: It seemed when you sent it. I thought, well, that seems easy. There'll be plenty

Dan: normally I get one or two straight off the top of my head. And I probably did, but it would be the same one or two we've all got.

And then after that,

Reegs: it became a bit

Dan: it dried up

Sidey: and

Dan: bit for me.

Howie: I was immediately drawn to this.

It was a very British thing about it because we all make cups of tea born in water. So that's why I did it. Did you know that in the U S they don't really have electric kettles? The reason for this appears to be related to the voltage in America, which is lower than the voltage in the UK, a physicist and science teacher explained this to me and his blog.

Mr. No one of those guys most homes in the U S operate in a hundred to 127 volts, whereas the UK, and we're two 20 to two 40 lower voltage in the U S means that electric kettles would not heat water as quickly as they do in the UK. As a result, they've not

Sidey: I mean you, you, you say, boiling To make tea. Of course you shouldn't have it.

boiling tomato cause you burn the tea leaves, but I know that you know

Howie: I used my brother-in-law used to work for a psychopath who would have his kettle boiled cup of tea. And then he would put the cup in a microwave for two minutes at full tilt. So hot that you couldn't hold it without getting an oven. Glove

Sidey: to

Howie: it, then.

It's just a car.

Sidey: Okay. Well, I've got one a bit like that. in my list.

Howie: Okay. Well I'd like to just start with one British film based on kind of this.

Cause I was looking at the trailers for stuff anyway. Shaun of the dead Sean, we take Pete's car. We drove over to mom's. We go in, we take care of Phillip pumps. I sorry, Philip. Then we grab mom, we go over to Liz's place, hole up, have a cup of tea and wait for this whole thing to blow over. Boiling water is in this.

There we go.

Reegs: that's a good


Howie: But it's that just, that's kind of the train of thought that I was on

Reegs: you. Get that quick cut montage and you get the, you see the kettle, the T

Dan: It's such a good movie though. Isn't it? It's, it's one of those.

I've probably seen four or five times and I wish I'd never seen it so I could watch it again for the first time.

Reegs: Yeah. So in the cinema it was good. Everybody was laughing and yeah.

Sidey: Going through the vinyl No, no new order. No.

Howie: so I take a phone. I just got to get off with you.

So, yeah,

Reegs: Well, who's got, he's going next.

Dan: well, you can have a go.

Reegs: Go on Daniel. You

Dan: Okay. Well, I'm going to go fatal attraction because it's the bunny boiling kind of

Sidey: Yes It's one of those iconic

moments. where it transcends the film to become, becomes a, a saying in in, in the cultural

lexicon. I want to

Reegs: I don't believe I've seen this film in say 10 or 15

years. All right.

Howie: So that's why I didn't put it in. Cause I, I I'm

Sidey: well it.

was nominated online, I put the tweet out.

I tried to do a bit earlier now and, Andy Conley came in hard right out

the gate, with this one.

And it's actually a real, it's a real bunny. Like They used a real bunny, obviously was already dead. Like they got it from the butcher. they didn't just go and get

a live

bunny and get it some water, but I thought, they could have just used like a prop or something Can you, cause that just

Reegs: it's the daughters, isn't it. It's the daughter's bunny and she's incensed.

Sidey: It's


like rolling back

on this because it's like,

Reegs: it's a stock phrase for a P describing a nasty trope about

Sidey: Yeah

Reegs: is misogynistic.

Sidey: he, he

goes off scot-free effectively from this whole thing. And all the only person that gets any come up and says Glenn close in the.

films that it's sort of

problematic in that

Dan: I'd have to revisit it's.

I remember E Michael Douglas is done he's as an an affair with with Glenn close character, and, and she kind of takes revenge on him in that kind of more than harsh way by boiling his daughter's bunny. It does seem to overstretch the

Reegs: I remember her hair that is, do you remember her hair in this magnificent sort of blonde mane? Proud like a lion?

Sidey: the jump scare in the bath. So, yeah, that's a good one.

Howie: So the

Dan: of looked

Howie: of what's the male equivalent term for Bonnie.

Reegs: Well, they were on the same negative things, associates or

Sidey: you. I fucked it. Bird.

Howie: well, close banter, asshole.

Dan: Yeah.


Reegs: there isn't stuff that's as insidiously nasty as stuff like bunny boiling, because it implies something really horrible.

Dan: I dunno. I think that is a particularly bad reaction to boil a, a live animal because you're disappointed a relationship has come to an end.

Sidey: Yeah. I'm not sure he was that great guy.

anyway, so probably best

fucking him off

Dan: probably all best left alone.

Sidey: Do

you want a world record

around boiling

Dan: Do the hottest boiling water ever

Sidey: a hundred degrees.

The fastest time ever to blow up a standard hot water bottle until it

Howie: Oh this is crazy. If you've seen the people that do this, I don't know what the time is,

Sidey: the time achieved When you should be proud of this, because it's set by a fellow in the UK, Sean Jones.

or Jonesy.

Dan: Yeah.

Sidey: What'd you reckon? Give me an estimate.

Dan: I would say five minutes. I reckon there's a good five minutes. A half an puff in there.

Howie: Two minutes.

Reegs: I wouldn't even know where to start a minute and a half,

Sidey: 6.5, two seconds.


Dan: I was sure you were going to say

Sidey: That's skin is


Howie: It

Sidey: It must be like one of those jazz trumpeters is like, you know,

Dan: How do you do it? Jonesy?

Sidey: Well, Yeah. So my first film was, this was a tricky topic, but a film that is in the disaster movie. genre that I particularly enjoy

is Dante key.

And as we're setting the scene there's the hot Springs up the mountain And a couple got up there for a bit of love making.

action. And

we don't see them again.

Howie: Springs, fingering,

Sidey: And then the family go up with Pierce Brosnan it's Linda Hamilton isn't

Howie: and the kids on the ground who deserves to die.


Sidey: And first of all, The grand makes some joke about fingering and then the young boy, no, the young girl sees two dead squirrels squirrels on the rocks. And they're like, oh, we've got Australia.

and What's going on here. And then the Oh, the gal. I can never remember Which one it just fucking screams. And then you see

the two, like

Flom babe sort of

Howie: human soup

Sidey: Yeah. Just like bopping around. in the water. like, this is


Howie: They've basically been Suvid I've put,

Sidey: Yes that's right. yeah.

So that was good. I like that.

Howie: And they didn't go in for a little dip afterwards. Cause

Sidey: no So they were boiled to death.

Howie: Have you ever been in a nonsense, which is the equivalent of being bored to death without actually dying in Japan? You've got these onsens which are like hot volcanic spring pools.

So you go in, in the buff have to be in the buff, you sit on a stool shower, your bollix shower, your head as well. And then use all their products. And then you get in to water that sort of just above 50 degrees.


And you're not allowed to, if you've got

Reegs: if you've got to

Howie: you've got to do you your cues are so one of the labs, we were one of the lads that was on trip though.

I know he had to cover himself in bandaid plasters, and he had the big Mary tattoos going, the full length, his arm. It just looked like a bloody.


Dan: but I don't quite get that.

Why wouldn't they let you in? I know, they've you up, but would they confuse you

Howie: with criminal underworld, a seen as bad

Sidey: yeah, it's just, you know, it's not, it's not the dumb thing I did say

Reegs: I didn't know that

Sidey: I'd read that.

Reegs: Well, Halloween too, I guess none of you have got that on your, oh, have you the, the follow-up and I still enjoy it. And I, it continues into the later series that I've just watched Halloween kills actually, which I know everybody hated by a quote I enjoyed. But anyway, this one Laurie from the first movie she's been holed up in hospital and Michael Myers has gone to go and find her the N the shape, the

Dan: stock to the

Reegs: of evil. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because he can kind of poke out from behind trees and, you know, just

Sidey: sticking to visiting hours

Reegs: that. And there's a nurse in, and there's a hot tub basically in the boat and she gets in there and she's got a boobs out and any turns up the heat, he smashes them turns she, he boils her alive in it sort of

Dan: thing.

Reegs: So yeah. It's, it's. Kale. And I, I really liked this franchise. I don't, I don't know where you guys are on it. Have you seen any of

Sidey: seen about four of them and I saw H 20 or H2O or whatever you're supposed to call it. that was pretty PO

Reegs: Oh, I liked that. I thought that was okay.

Dan: No, I've

Sidey: I haven't seen any since then I don't think

Dan: generally. Not a genre I go to, unless forced,

Reegs: well, maybe there'll be some forcing done. But there's a lot of mine ended up, well, you enjoyed the thing for instance, and this is also John Carpenter, isn't it. So there, you know, I had a few horror movies

Howie: There was quite a lot when I looked up this topic that I couldn't, I never legit, I never put in ones that I've not seen

Dan: How did you, how

Reegs: you, covered.

Dan: how did you kind of think of boiling water scenes

Reegs: Yeah Well, that was the way. So first of all, you, like, he think of, I was thinking of making a cup of tea and then the tropes that you were talking about there associated

Sidey: with

Reegs: kettles and stuff you know like rising sexual tension for instance, implied, but I couldn't actually think of any specific like movies, even though I know I've seen that trope played out countless

Sidey: well, a Really, barely good one with the cattle boiling noise is the finale of season three of breaking bad where Jesse Kells. Oh, I remember the name of the dude

Reegs: uh

Sidey: A series one.

Dan: Well, why are you thinking of that name? It's interesting. Why they,

Reegs: Gale. Yeah, yeah,

Dan: it's interesting

Reegs: yeah. Where he goes over it right at the end of the year. Oh my God. Yeah, yeah,

Dan: yeah,

Reegs: yeah. Have you seen it?


Dan: no, but the, the, the kind of metaphor that directors and filmmakers use.

Boiling kettles just to ramp the tension up and they, they do it.

You know what I mean? They, they did it in a ton of films. I've got the gentleman, her yesterday, a ghost story I'm running out of steam now, but there was there's lots of, there's lots of whether the film directors will do that just to urgency

Reegs: you know, you've seen it loads of times. That was the thing.

I just couldn't think of any like memorable things to like, you know, anyway, and then a lot of other stuff to talk about is people getting boiling, water, thrown on them. I've got a load of

Howie: Yeah, that's what I was going to say. That's where, that's where most of the hits on the internet. If you do search, this will come up.

Dan: and that's when the conversation gets heated.

Howie: Is he Welsh. I'm going to go for a cartoon, my first of two the Simpsons episode. And it's really weird. All the episodes actually called Lisa gets an a

Reegs: I know

Howie: Mr.

Pinchy or just pinchy was a lobster that was homeless pet Homer finds them at grocery store and decides to take him home to fatten up to eat. Homer gradually grows emotionally attached to the lobster and decides to keep them as a pet naming. And Mr. Pinchy, he keeps him in an indoor waiting pool.

it's what he would have wanted. At the end of the episode, hotels, Marty's placed pinch in a hot bath after he got dirty from chasing birds and then comments on something smelling good. And then home Olympics, two together realized it's coming from the bath. And as you said, he sat at the dinner table sobbing whilst pinchy who had been unfortunately born alive in the tub is being eaten.

Reegs: baby

Howie: I think he's so good.

Dan: Boiling point was a movie that we w we were viewed a few weeks ago. Steven Gray.

Reegs: Yeah it has probate

Dan: before. It almost definitely did. Cause it was centered around a restaurant and this kind of nightmare. Well I say it's nightmare. It was just it was brought on by him. Wasn't it?

This kind of case of events and, and things that lead up to it. But Stephen Graham, one of the best British actors out there, and this was a movie, if you haven't seen go and check out and our review as well. Yeah.

Sidey: Okay. I might have to fight my corner on this one. Cause I don't know that that we're going to,

you're going to say that this is boiling, water, But it is very hot



Dan: tub time machine.

Sidey: No rain man.

Is it that in the hotel and Charlie wait, which one's Charlie is Tom cruise. Right? And Raymond,

Reegs: is

Sidey: he goes to these American, say, draw a bath. I would say.

run a

And Raymond freaks out and he says hot water burn, baby, hot water burn, baby. And

turns out that the reason that Charlie has never met Raymond is because he was sent away for hurting him with the hot water in

the bar, that's

what's happened. And that's why

He's been institutionalized

because he's a danger

or that's how they played it you know?

But back then. And so this is a key moment in the film

where he under starts to understand, you know, exactly what's what's

Reegs: and I'm sorry, but we cannot let

Sidey: I know, I

Reegs: how it was

Sidey: It was hot water

Reegs: as well only when we do hot water.

Dan: Yeah

Sidey: buffs drop five baths.

Dan: clear. Isn't

Sidey: I've got another one that I'm

going to

Dan: to be

Sidey: cause it was

Reegs: got one that's on the edge as well,

Sidey: that's a reason we've gone then.

Reegs: well, it's, Gremlin's when he jumps at the YMCAs jumps in.

The swimming pool to spike. Well, it all bubbles away because he's reproducing. Well, that's what I thought you might say,

Sidey: am gonna say after you just pay page, right? Math,

Reegs: but I

had some maths about it. I don't know if you were interested in, in maths. I know some people like a bit of maths because they say that,

Dan: one and one is too

Howie: fucking bang on,

Reegs: right. So one drop of water spawns, a single Mogwai. Yeah. So when one jumps into a swimming pool, how many mug wise is it going to reproduce you?

You have to say there were 48 trillion drops of water, according to some goon on the internet, in a swimming pool. So assuming that one gremlin splits in two and removes one drop of water from the pool in the process. So gremlin plus one drop of water. You got two gremlins. So you'd have 48.7 billion gremlins.

Sidey: Okay.

It's a bit like the star Trek episode.

with the

Reegs: triples. Yeah. But that is a lot, I mean, that would get out of control very soon. Wouldn't it? So

Sidey: downplayed that quite a lot in the film then.

Reegs: yeah. Yeah, but I don't know if it's that water boiling. No fucking, no.

Howie: I'm going to go. One of my favorite films and one of my favorite scenes is blade runner 2049. Sapper Morton's home at the start and all you've got is this fairly empty? So it's like a workers, hot home. And the boiling water is the only thing Yeah, Dave Patista the boiling water is the only sound you could hear. And then you see in a empty soulless home as he's basically decommissioned by K Ron Ray, Ryan, Ryan Gosling's character. And when he looks in the bowl, he says, that's boiling away to Sapper Morton. He says, what is this? And he just says garlic and bugs.

And it's such a great scene of an attempted calm


is utterly doomed to failure.

Reegs: There's a co there's a thing about boiling water in blade runner because there's one in, in blade runner as

Howie: well. The first

Reegs: puts her hand in the water press. Doesn't she in the boiler to grab the egg.

And there's another scene with boiling water. So I feel like I need to revisit those movies. Cause I honestly, I'd only seen them once and I was only a bit like, Hm.

Sidey: you hate them. Yeah.

Howie: The first one has epic bits in it. But I get annoyed by it that Hannah but I just, I let the whole of 2049 if it was 20, I always get the I just think, and I think that particular part, the desolate scene that he arrives

Sidey: at

Howie: and it is it's like you said, it's impending, impending doom,

Sidey: And Ana de Armas is his hologram things.

She's hot. I would do

Reegs: Have you seen the Ben Affleck thing where the trailer was her whacking them off in the park?

Sidey: I haven't seen that one

We've seen his Dick as well, so we could really

Reegs: You could piece it all together.

Sidey: that. Yeah.

Howie: You can really visualize the moment

Sidey: I've seen his Dick

so yeah, I can read it

Reegs: yeah. Yeah.

Howie: that's a kind of unexpected turn for the worst.

Sidey: worse

Howie: I like blade runner. I like, and I was thinking of Ben Affleck. Great.

Dan: Well, well, I'm gonna mention Widner and I, cause I haven't done for a few weeks and there's one scene where with no attempts, the dishes and says that he's been bitten, but in fact he's been burnt by the cattle, which is, has been boiled. But it's again, it's one that I, I think I wrote a blog on this one.

There's so much, I like this one. And there's also, yeah, we, we will do but this is champion film and it's just

Reegs: do you know, Dan, more than 250 people have read or accidentally clicked on your

blog That's pretty

Dan: that? I'm delighted with that, to be honest, more than

Howie: published also.

Dan: yeah. Why not? So it's an absolutely fantastic film, you know, I, it's got such a, a brilliant cult following to it as well that I'm sure those are the people that have clicked onto it because they're, they're not like me and they'll read anything about it.

Reegs: Yeah. But there was an alternative take, which was that it was all shit.



for me

Dan: Yeah. Who says we don't deliver balance on this podcast?

Reegs: Yeah.

Sidey: it's a film.

Reegs: Well, that's like ghost rider, right? When you were, when he's drinking the


the coffee. That's what I was thinking of this because he drinks the hot water. Doesn't need to

Sidey: Yeah Cause he smashed, he smashes a mirror and when he's looking at it, his reflection is like, not quite right.

And then there's

Reegs: Well, he sees himself in all of the reflections then out of those

Sidey: Many ashes like torture him at one goes down his throat, So he drinks the,

Reegs: And it starts coming out of a wound on his shoulder as an I

Sidey: so yeah, that happens. And then I oh, another one was SIM, well, not similar, at all, but it's boiling water, like cattle vibe. Everyone's seen layer cake.

So There's a scene in the greasy spoon cafe where there's like a trampy kind of bloke and he I think he's he's been inside or he'd grabbed some, I can't exactly remember what it kicks off about, but it's George William Harris. You may remember him as Kingsley, shackle bolt in the Harry Potter films, the big black feller. And he

dishes out a violent thrashing in the cafe, and then picks up a cattle from behind the sort of counter thing and just smashes the sky to bits and like pause on it. It's Just like


Howie: they were going to be more of that sort of thing in this.

I thought that's one of the things I thought there's definitely loads of scenes where people have smashed coffee, hot boiling, hot coffee and boiling hot

Sidey: well it happens

It happened in nobody last week.

Yeah. But this one was real, like outlier in that film. because a lot of it is just like violence off screen or

people Just

getting like a single like gunshot wound.

But this was a real like in public fucking violent thrashing. It was

Yeah, quite, quite hot war.

Reegs: Well to that, I've just thought of on the spot there from you talking side one in the vein of the coffee thing, there was, we watched the big heat, Dan, and we've got that episode to come out as a review at some point.

And there's a

Dan: scene there where the, the villain kind of,

Reegs: it's a 1953 Glenn Ford movie to Dan and I watched it.

He introduced me to his great and it features a C. Quite graphic, where a women gets hot coffee thrown in her face.

It's just one of the number of horrible things that happen to women in a movie where, you know, somebody gets blown up in a car bomb and all sorts of stuff that we'll talk about. And in the evil, dead remake rebooted thing, which I did actually quite enjoy. There's a scene where the, so the set up now they're in a cabin, obviously a remote cabin in the middle of nowhere, again, as, as the, that movie has the setup. But this time Mia is a sort of recovering heroin addict and she's there with five friends who are there to help her.

Dan: cold Turkey.

Reegs: And so you've already got this kind of emotional trauma starting before the horrible shit with possessions and the dog called grandpa, which is murdered with a hammer and they suspect is Mia.

And then when they come back to find her she's in the shower and she somehow rigged it, like it's boiling, boiling hot, and she's just standing under it with our skin blistering horribly. Yeah. It's lovely stuff.

Howie: W w remind me down while we don't watch the

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. I just can't put my finger on it. Why they did that stuff? Just kinda CRE I wouldn't sleep well.

I mean, we D fall asleep. Ah, good night after that.

Reegs: actually, that movie does push the envelope. That's what makes it okay. Because it does push the envelope, but it's all dangerous in a lot of this stuff. What's kind of horrible places, but then kind of absurd. And sometimes there's a bit of a sense of humor in there as well. So, you know, it's not just relentlessly grim, dark, it's not sore and hostile and stuff like that because there are different.

So yeah, that's quite good. Another one's sleep away camp, which is a kind of transphobic movie actually, but it's a horror movie. A guy gets a VAT of hot boiling water over him. And then the Thomas Jane Punisher movie. See that one,

Sidey: No,

the really the ages go one.

Reegs: It was,

Sidey: Oh no,

not the dog

Dan: I watched some, a series called the Punisher that was

Reegs: It predates that, but yeah, he fights a Russian guy and throw some hot water on him. Those were

just Some of the

ones that you could think of where that

Howie: Yeah, I was going to have to more,

Sidey: go for it.

Howie: Commando let off some steam Burnett. So there's that obviously where he gets empowered through the hot water pipes and steam and all sorts of stuff. And the other one is it just bothers me a bit. This one beauty and the beast, the cartoon Mrs. Potts, the teapot pause, boiling water all over the advancing hoard of villages, looking to kill the beast.

But my main thing about this, her son is called chip and he has a chip missing. Thus, I put, how did this manifest, when he became real again, did he have like a huge chunk of him missing or something? So when you think about that, and then actually the last one is coming to me from a person at work. And this one would be interesting to see because it's a series from the eighties, but it's been re launched by FX and Netflix at the moment is called Shogun. Based on James Clever's novel set in the 17th century about English navigator, John Black, thorn Richard Chamberlain, who becomes shipwrecked off the coast of Japan has held captive by samurais and the Japanese scenes in it are the Japanese to boil their captives alive in 180 degrees water. So as to prolong the torture, the hapless sailor sailors were actually boiled at the pleasure of Lord, your boo, who enjoyed strolling in his moonlit garden to the sounds of human suffering.

And it's all being redone at the minute,

Reegs: You like it sounds right up your alley. Doesn't

Dan: Well, I've watched a film Martin Scorsese, one called silence with Adam driver and somebody else.


Reegs: mini driver.

Dan: famous. No, it wasn't. No it's and they, they go into Japan as priests looking to be missionaries and they're tortured.

Reegs: Daniel Day

Dan: No F I

Howie: James KA, is it not James calve?

Dan: Roy Bremner, no, it's not him evil. But it is Adam driver and somebody else, and it's a, it's a harrowing kind of film. And.

I can't remember there being boiling water, but there was this linking just from his Japanese torture

Sidey: Andrew Garfield,

Howie: that's it.

Dan: Yeah. And it's there's all kinds of torches, potentially hot water torture in there as well, maybe.

I mean you know, I don't want a conversation to get heated, so should we,

Sidey: I've got just the one more, which is the name of how sex, tape, the bone collector. And that is a serial killer movie where the killer leaves clues to where the next victim or the next

crime is

going to happen. So they abducted a married couple kill the husband, and then leave clues about where the wife is tied up.

Yeah, and she is tied up in front of her steam pipe. So it's another like commando vibe, not as funny. And.


Due to go off and are they going to get there in time and they don't, she's fucking steamed to death.

Reegs: Yeah.

Sidey: So you can't have steam without boiling water.

So I managed to weasel that one in

Reegs: that is a baffling movie. There's kind of, they basically, there's a bit where, cause Denzel, Washington is paralyzed completely paralyzed apart from he can move his finger and he she's a rookie cop and she goes off to do the investigation. She sort of his eyes and ears in the field no.

Dan: I can't remember. I think I might've read the

Reegs: Raider, Angelina, Jo.

Dan: Who does, who wrote the books? It's Patterson. Is it

Reegs: So she goes off to anyway, she goes off to do that, and there's a serial killer and he's staging these eyes utterly ridiculous this movie. It was so much fun to take apart and the climax of it, she comes back to actually meet him. Lincoln rhyme.

I think his name is, and he's in bed and there's basically a thing that's like a sex scene, but it's just her stroking his finger. Cause it's the only part of his body that can feel. But there's like

Dan: self and the

Sidey: the cat or the cat over the

Dan: yeah. Go to cat or Steven.

Sidey: I've got a world record as well, which isn't very good, it's the

world's largest flow rate for for a hot spring.

Which is the unpronounceable one in Iceland, which rigs may well go and see on his trip.

Reegs: Oh yeah. Go and have you got like a phonetic

Sidey: pronunciation

will dart in

give her

it's probably not fast. And the thing like what those letters It might you

Reegs: yeah.

Sidey: I bet I have been I have been to

see that.

Reegs: yeah, I'm trying to say the word, like 'cause you, you usually try and have a go with something don't

Sidey: volcano, the volcano that caused all the trouble. That one was like

completely Yeah Just not Anyway, I'm out.

Reegs: Yeah.

Well, I've got one more, but I'm going to make it my nomination.

So I'll do that now. The shape of water, she gets up part of a routine that we see as she goes and boil some eggs and has.

Dan: Nice.

Howie: Let's get that.

Sidey: routine is only

Howie: I'm going to go for blade runner 2049 was Safra. Morris has garlic and bugs being boiled.

Dan: I'm going to go for boiling point Stephen Graham

Sidey: for Dante is peak.

Howie: Oh, that's

Reegs: And where we, I mean, next week's will be fatal attraction. Cause this is it's been dominated by Andy kindly already.

Sidey: How did you become aware of this one Cause I'd never heard of it.

Howie: Uh What you do is you turn on Netflix and you sit there like in a vegetative state

Sidey: you

get many paralysis.

Howie: and you go, what the fuck am I going to watch? And you end up watching either Brooklyn nine, nine, or gorilla or something a bit more substansive and go, oh, look, I recognize that bloke from Westworld which would be Jeffrey, right?

Sidey: Yeah. Like the Vista is a Netflix, original production type thing. Don't ever get any more of those because they seem to be right in the shit.

at the moment.

Yeah. I reckon I can lose 2 million subscribers this quarter.

Well, we're going to start getting ads So Netflix now.

Reegs: Yeah.

Dan: Where that bad bloody

Reegs: Well, that'd

be, there'll be a premium service without it, but

Dan: they're going to lose 2,000,001, then

Howie: I think I'm bound into some Dayla did with sky where I sold my kidneys.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. They won't

Sidey: In any case, yes, you are. right. Jeffrey writes stars in this it's hold the dark 2018 Wolf documentary.

Reegs: It did peak my interest straight away because it was written by Mac, on Blair Mac on

Sidey: You don't deserve to get here anymore or something.

Reegs: I didn't feel at home in this world anymore. And that was a movie that we'd been recommended to watch on the podcast and we reviewed and it turned out to be surprisingly good. I think we didn't know anything about that. So, you know, the fact that he'd written, this was interesting to me.

Howie: Yeah. It's quite a complex book. But this derives from my belief.

Dan: Yeah. And it's I've not read the book, but I mean, this is a atmospheric film and it's kind of got those dark over. I mean, we're not looking at a comedy here.

Sidey: No there was light light on comedy. this

one yeah.

Dan: This is and you need the lights on as well. If you, you know, to

Sidey: full disclosure rigs

saw it before me and text me ahead of time and said trigger warning for you. So I packed the misses off, and watched this. One although still in a couple of things. Cause I had a problem with staying awake this week. And so cause there is some

Possibly disturbing content

Dan: Yeah,

Sidey: Yeah.

Howie: Which I didn't realize at the time.

Sidey: no, no, that's fine.

Dan: but we we've we open up on on this kind of Alaska scene don't we, you know, it's icy trees and bleak, but it reads, you're going to tell me something. We don't open up there.

Reegs: Well, we start with a score, an ominous score in a.

because I was going to ask you, I know, fuck all about this stuff. And I I've thought about this and I find it impenetrable. Oh. And teachably after evil, but uttering truth.

Gerard Manley Hopkins, and I don't know anyone.

Sidey: didn't understand what it meant

Reegs: Oh On teacher bleed after evil, but uttering truth anyway.

Yeah. And then, yeah, you're right. It's not even a half horse town out in the middle of beautiful

Dan: Yeah no, that's right. It's kind of a, a few houses on the, on the bend of a river.

A few trees looks bleak, looks fucking freezing and and there's a kid playing with one toy and on a pile of snow, just out front of his house. And next thing we're we say we cut to some wolves, there's a wolves around isn't there just to give you that kind of sense of, you know, the w the wild

Reegs: one actually, you see it at the periphery and it's stairs and then there's a woman making a cup of tea, I thought, oh yeah. Boiling water.

Dan: There you go. Yeah. And, and yeah, the w a woman looks like the, the kid's mother is just kind of looking out at the.

Good, you

know mum's there. But it cuts to

Howie: there's a time jump,

Dan: a huge time. John Paul or whatever, not even that huge, the kids gone, it's been taken by wolves and she's in the process

Howie: of the assumption. The assumption is

Dan: Well, and it kind of narrates over a, a letter being written and is the credits are rolling. Isn't it. And the letters asking a guy who's had experience in killing wolves to come to her town because yeah, we've wolves.

Howie: studies Wolf behavior.

Dan: and he's, she wants him to kill the Wolf because her husband, who's not there.

She'll need to show him something when he comes back. That's kind of how she's written it and opens

Reegs: a series of,

Dan: Here's the third one. Yeah, we think it's the third one in this, in this town. And from the beginnings of this, you can.

Okay. That's believable. These wolves hunting in packs. There's, you know even right the way up, I mean,

Howie: it's a very small settlement and I was going to say it's native. What would be the term and not into it or yeah.

What they are native. They are native to those lands,

Sidey: people.

Howie: Yeah. So they are.

They're on the edges of the, of the poverty line here. These people are living mouth

Reegs: well, they barely connected. They're living remotely and they're barely connected. They're more connected to the wilderness than they are to the, to the infrastructure. There's a funny scene later where she describes Anchorage as being the city, not being, not Alaska is probably the only joke in the whole movie. And they she's a little bit conspicuous. Madora Sloan because in this community of about a dozen buildings and 15


Howie: Yeah. I didn't think it was that I think maybe even less.

Dan: Did you know she was the granddaughter of the king

Howie: Yeah she's

Elvis Presley's granddaughter.

Dan: very much. Yeah,

Reegs: not know that She, was in mad max fury road and that's where I remember her


Howie: But this, the character played a Russell core is the character played by Jeffrey Wright.

Who is, we said, it's the writer who studies Wolf behavior. He's been brought there by Madora

Reegs: Yeah. He goes out there and it's like, it's quite a mission to get there. There's flights, you know, he drives a long way. There are emphasis to point out how, how far are you goes along. And then, you know, he, he talks her and explains about how big the pack might be and what he's looking for and all that sort of

Howie: Yeah. And she asks him, what was it like to kill the pack leader or the fleet female or something? I think he said something along the lines of, it was just horrible. It wasn't necessary. Yeah.

Sidey: you kind of, you, well, you might have thought that he was.

hun, you know,

Howie: Yeah,

Sidey: like he would have it mounted on his wall, but he's not like that


Dan: he's more of a scientist

Sidey: Yeah And he's he does point

out that this doesn't sound like typical Wolf behavior.

Howie: Yeah. I mean, he tries to convince us, he said, it's not Wolf behavior. Madora tells him that there is darkness there. And this is where it starts to get into the, kind of the other realm of the story.

And she says that she speaks of a hot Springs in the north of the town, which is the only warm place she's ever known. And I think that links into kind of the conversation that he was having about the outside. Like the ladies in bikinis that she'd seen once in, on TV or stuff like that. She also says there's a, as Dan said, she alludes to her husband is way fighting in the war and that he told her that he would never leave her.

And it's kind of this


room cabin that they're in at the moment, you know, and it's, it's very, it's really, it just looks cold.

Sidey: she has a bath,

Howie: You know, she has a Schwab,

Reegs: Yeah. Well,

Howie: night and she's having a bath

Reegs: and she's jabbering away to herself about demons and saying, is he down there? Is he up there?

And then she gets out of the bath and she's, then she puts on a

Sidey: horny this but

Reegs: Wolf mask

and gets him to choke her

Dan: Yeah, it's really weird. So

Reegs: outside the dude

watches and smokes a ciggy.

Dan: at this point, if you're him, you're like abort, mission abort mission.

Sidey: sort of very slowly comes into the room, obviously completely naked. because She's been in the bath and she approaches where Jeffrey Wright is sleeping and lays down next to him and grabs his hand. And like you Are thinking like she's going to put it on a boob or between the legs, but no, the

hand goes that she places his hands on

her throat

Howie: is she wearing a wall, like a weird

Reegs: Yeah, she's wearing a wooden Wolf

Howie: wooden pagans Wolf

Sidey: And, and, and

sort of forces this kind of choke? Hold

  1. And I was

super into it.

Reegs: Yeah.

Dan: Yeah, no, it's a weird scene. And at this point I'm thinking this guy must be thinking, what the fuck? Just, just leave. Like, I mean, she's, she's been a bit incoherent a couple of times, which I thought, well, look, she's just lost a child and she's going to be confused.

And it's all going to be a bit crazy for her and everything. So maybe it's just sitting in it, but then she does that with the mask and the choke hold, or you think, no, I don't have an explanation for this, like, but there's something a little bit sort of voodoo magic, black magic, sort of going on

Reegs: Well, the mask straight away gives that feeding and she she's talking about demons when she's in the tub and

Dan: So, so there's more than meets the eye the next day. Anyway, he heads off, down into

Reegs: well, it's straight note straight after that. It's just cuts to Iraq and you get this like real contrast between the bleak, Alaskan wilderness. That's

Dan: That was the car. Yeah, it was just remember when the

Reegs: it's straight

Dan: it was a very

Reegs: It's straight after the


Howie: cuts to her husband. Vernon played by Alexander. I said, scars,

God Yeah And he he's obviously overseas in Iraq. Huge hands. I

Dan: noticed.

Howie: huge hands.

Reegs: this is quite the entrance for him because they run a few insurgents off the road and then he just mercilessly guns them down. I mean, I guess it's efficient.

It's very it's brutally violent.

Dan: Well, what did I call him? Your meat machine or something? He just, he he's because

Reegs: oh yeah. And then that idiot guys taking selfies

Dan: but they, they, he doesn't flinch. I mean, he's got you know, most of his body's behind the gun, but there's still areas where he can be shot, but he just kind of lets him have it. And you start to learn a little bit about the character, the guy here, right?

So he's fearless. He's not gonna back away. And he's ruthless,

Sidey: cold

Dan: you say, and then you see him getting into the kind of Afghan town or Rocky town or wherever it is. It's not quite clear, which,

Howie: It's it's it's it's Iraq. It's Iraq has gone into a town and he is walking through like the, the close quarters of this little village pathway. And he said, he, I think he hears that the Iraqi women in distress and he looks, and she's been raped by an American soldier

and he

Reegs: you see what he did? He put his, he's smoking a cigarette and he puts a cigarette down on the window.

So first did you notice, and then he goes


Sidey: with the blade,

Howie: a bleeder and it

Reegs: He stops him nine times

Howie: a ruthless in the sight. It floods the lungs. That's how they do it. That's what you're supposed to

Sidey: And then the guy is prone on the floor and he hands her, the knife. and just lets and in your hair off


that he's she finishes him off, you

Reegs: And then he picks up his Siggy and walked off with his

Howie: with his bloodied

Reegs: everywhere,

Howie: then as he's walking back towards the rest of the troops, he gets pot shot in the neck and it is the amount. Oh

Sidey: I just I just assumed you're gonna die, you know?

Cause it was like a neck shot with blood present. Like you don't

Reegs: I guess it's a glancing

Sidey: Yeah It must've been just through the

Dan: they, call it a Hickey. I mean, it's clearly more than that. You see the blood spit out, but what struck me as well is the fact when he slumped down to kind of get cover he reached for his gun rather than anything else. It's just that ingrained kind of soldier in him, I guess, where, you know, he's trying to stop the blood and he wakes up on the stretcher, he calls out the name Bailey which is his son.

And I thought that he'd already, we'd already found out at that stage that that Bailey ads

Reegs: no, it happens. I've


Dan: Yeah. Okay. So you've got, you've got the, the, the correct chronology here. So we, we, we find out that he's going to be on his way back home.

Sidey: Yeah.

Reegs: And then, so yeah, he does. Yeah. It's back in Alaska core goes out war funding.

Then he eventually meets up with this old native women. And he tells him he's going the wrong way middle of the night was evil. I didn't catch her name. I've got it written down later where I did catch

Howie: my wife at this point interjected and

Reegs: in the neck or something.

Howie: she said, yeah, she said that that phrase is typical of a Traveler's tail, turn back.

You're going the wrong way. She it's a very typical medium to, to use in this situation that lady's name was said was

Dan: yeah, it was just a spooky line delivered by the kind of town, which, or, or whatever it was

Reegs: And then

Howie: those evil.

Dan: Yeah.

Reegs: and then straight after that, we get the scene where core tracks the wolves down to the hot Springs that Madora had mentioned, and he finds the pack of wolves eating their young.

I wonder if it could be a metaphor. And at one point it looks like they might be desperate enough to come for him, but they back away

Sidey: because

he rolls down the Hills and they

Dan: falls down the

Sidey: lose it.

And you're thinking, oh God, it's jeopardy.

but no.

Reegs: And then this is where he goes back to, to Keela. And it's the town is kind of a complete ghost town and the house is empty and the cellar door is conspicuously unlocked.

Howie: It's a jar the bad luck.

Dan: So there's a few really good scenes in

Reegs: this is the scene that you were talking about where the reveal of,

the dead boy. yeah.

Dan: That, yeah. It's it's so he goes back in, he finds the boy. Jeez. He's not been taken by.

At all eat here. He calls for help. The whole town comes and suddenly she's, she's run off. She's gone. She can't be found, but it's a whole new thing. Now she has murdered the boy. It's it seems like he's been strangled.

She's now run off into the woods or nobody can find her and the husband is, is coming back and he has to go in and identify the body. And then this, it just kind of ramps up again with, with weirdness, doesn't it? Because just outside the hospital, the coroners, the morgue the the, the guy I've, I've Jeffrey Ray, he's his core he's come in and he's kind of shaking his hand and said, you know, well, you were the one that found him, weren't you.

And okay. On your way. And he

Reegs: he looks at him, did he looks at him and he says, I'm Wolf man.

And he walks over to shake his hand as well. Cause he sees the Wolf in

Dan: yeah Yeah. Well, he knows that. Well, he knows that he's been called in for this, like, you know, he shows the letter is it's been given all these reasons. The police have almost said to him, look, we kept him around for you, Vern, you know, w C just in case you wanted to ask him

Reegs: well, no, it's yeah.

It's, it's more because when the copper drops him off James badge, Gail can, he says, can you stick around for a bit? And he wants to go cause he wants to see his daughter. And he's like, he says, well, what did the villages say? And they're saying, oh, he's, he's a Wolf demon called a Turnock.

Howie: Yeah

Reegs: So he's like, I've got all this paperwork and I've got to blame it on a Wolf team.

And so you need


stick around and help me solve this.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Is the policeman seems fairly normal. But as they leave. Obviously there's this big scene where Vern just goes fucking nuts. Big Vern, just start. Have you ever seen that vis

comic strip called big Vern where a big van just it's like that he just starts getting

Howie: Well, the two, the two police say that we've got information that we'll be able to be passed on that where

Reegs: where

Howie: where your wife is, whose name Madora

met her, where she is.

And as soon as they say that he just goes, executes them because it's clear that he wants to deal with this for whatever reason, which

Sidey: The first one

is particularly shocking. Cause it's just the guy's face and it just

pulls, it's like point blank, in the face, bang you're gone. And the second guy

was kind of


down. he gets executed and then as the other, guy's doing something you can see him he just likes, still shooting them on the ground to make sure I think the headshot was pretty like, you know, definitive, like He was a gunner but you're like, fuck. like, Wow. that

Dan: it really

Reegs: really brutal.

And it's out of

Dan: and they just kind of leave them there as

Howie: and he takes the

Dan: I don't even try to hide them.

Reegs: he grabs the body that he's had to identify it and he takes it outside and he's like, makeshift did a coffin that they've dubbed symbols

Sidey: and he cuts his arm It cuts a big knife

down the

forearm and do

this these symbols


the, on the coffin and barrier.

Reegs: Yeah.

Dan: And yeah, you're not quite sure where, where things are going here, but he has a friend Cheong who's

Howie: well there's, there's a bit airy. E E Vernon burns the case file. And then he goes and visits the village, which lady that we've mentioned previously. And she goes on about influenza killing everybody.

And that's when the wolves first came and took the bodies. And there was, there was nowhere for them to be buried. And that's what she's of. There's

Reegs: the bodies were piled up on that when the flu came, she said, this is, this is what she's drawing a parallel.

She says, it's not the first time that wolves came. It was called flu before it killed them, but they piled the bodies up and then the wolves came at night and they would just put pieces of the bodies, just all over the hillside and countryside more.

And then then and murders,


Dan: You've got this kind of vaguely sort of supernatural feel going on if you don't kind of know what's exactly there, but there's that feel, you know, there's something within the walls

Sidey: had the mask With her sort of ritual Charlie, wherever it

was in the

Dan: now had the

Sidey: he's like some fucking ruthless killing machine,

The two of

them together,

you like,

something's going on a

Dan: on a coffin and

Sidey: like a bit bone Tomahawk, you kind of thing going on. you know the parallels to just fucking weird rituals. But th this is the fucking killing, just like ramps up and

Howie: Yeah. He's, it's basically it's accomplished Cheong they, the police realized that Vernon's responsible and

Sidey: well, there's no doubt about it.

You know what I mean

Howie: they,

Reegs: they, they rack up to Gian stone. Yeah. And if they go enough, this like 10 minute dialogue scene, really where

he's trying to talk

him down, he

Dan: and then I have like a, a 15 minute

Sidey: machine guns

Dan: is actually a really good scene. I really liked that. I thought it was,

Howie: So graphic,

Dan: but it wasn't unbelievable, you know, it was, it was all kind of apart from the fact, they can't actually get a shot away at this guy.


Sidey: what you're

saying is effectively

a tinpot

fucking like police squad out in the middle of nowhere. don't see action. you know what I mean? And they don't know how to deal with it.

Dan: No. Well, he,

Sidey: deal with it They're under fire

Reegs: They're holding

Dan: those guns called. I mean, he's, he, he he's bolted it into the floor so he can

Sidey: it's the real deal that compared to them. Cause they've got

Reegs: And he's got the only elevated position at all anywhere. And he's just raining fire. I mean, he killed.

15 guys in about the first minute and a half of the


Dan: he's already talked about the cop. I'm saying, what's it going to be like when you're, you know, imagine your wife, she's, she's getting the call like, and as it turns out, it doesn't quite pan out that way, but it's close enough.

Reegs: Well, the rookie cop and

Dan: rookie cop is

Reegs: the police chief. They get, they

Dan: bag of nerves.

He, I mean, he's like, I would be to be fair, but he's absolutely useless in there. The only, he couldn't even get shot properly. Could have he was

Reegs: Oh, it's still, well, it's horrible. And it's the centerpiece to the film, this part of the film, isn't it? Because they go off and the police chief gets the chance to storm the house. And the rookie cop is by the rock, giving him cover and then he gets gunned down horribly and call goes out to rescue him and eventually just shout, stop.

Just shout, stop,

Dan: Well, there's a bit of humanity suddenly washes over

Sidey: it cause he does stop. yeah.

he does.

He's like taken it back a bit.

Dan: and

Reegs: Well, he recognizes the nobility, I think in him.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that had been recognized by also Vernon and a little bit later on we see it again.

So it there's some really good character performances here. I mean, straight away, as soon as Vernon came on, I was like, fuck, this dude is ease. His presence. Is there on the screen? You know, he was, yeah. I thought he was straight away. Really good. What else has he been

Reegs: He was in billions that I

Sidey: He was in true blood.

I think he's where he First.

Dan: I've not seen any of those. So

Howie: in the, is he the lead in the new, the north man, the new film at the cinema that I

Dan: right? Okay. Yeah, he does look to have real presence on, on screen

Reegs: Chyann gets taken down eventually.

Dan: Yeah. They eventually take them out here. He go. It gives it boom. Yeah. And it was a, it was a good kind of sign.

So they are now on the hunt for the girl. And they've got a lead way. For some reason Jeffrey Wright is, is still there for fuck sake at this stage. He's already, he had his own kind of thought, oh, maybe that old lady, Indian woman will know something about, and he got the visitor shit, she's at a throat sliced.

And and then when he goes to report. How it was unleashing in front with the M 16 and everything. But they end up in it in a single propeller plane going over Alaska to look for the hot Springs, which

Reegs: we've missed, we've missed a little bit though. That explains a little bit more about Vernon. Yeah,

because Vernon tries to track down Medera and he goes to. Visit an old cabin. That's out in the middle of nowhere, the woman that runs the end, propositions him and says, do you want to sleep in, I'll keep the bed warm for you. And then he says that he'd been there as a child and he goes off to visit this.

Like, they call him an Indian hunter, but he's just a guy called John. Yeah. And he it turns out Jonathan. Yeah. It turns out the Vernon had been there as a child being treated for his psychopathy basically. With Wolf's oil, unnatural tendencies, he had um

Howie: Do you think as well,

Reegs: It's sort of vaguely a little bit of that implied.

And he's got a Wolf mask on the wall, which Vernon takes and then a murders in,

Dan: Yeah, Vernon's on a bit of a mission now.

And he also gets shot as he does this because the, the lady who's, the, the innkeeper brings out a shotgun and she's not bad with it. And Vernon doesn't fancy it at all. He's I think he, it gets, so he gets a little Nick again in the neck or somewhere the shoulder this time. And he goes to a friend of his who fixes them up and then stitches him up.

And so he's.

Sidey: he catches

him on the radio You're thinking out there,

Howie: yeah, you're fucked. As soon as he walks soon as he walks in with the

Dan: as he's

Sidey: he gets the knife right to

Howie: oh God, both of us watching that with, oh my God.

Dan: yeah, no, that was a particularly gruesome way to

Sidey: now he, Now he's just fully masked up for the rest of the movie, basically. Yeah

Reegs: and they do take this plane ride out and it's probably the first time you get all those great shots of Alaska looking. Absolutely

Dan: I though, I cannot believe one minute. You're going to find this hot spring.

Reegs: He's been there before.


Dan: But

Sidey: They must have coordinators And any case they do,

Reegs: What's his jobs. Vernon is basically on foot at this point and injured, they have to get, but plot-wise, they have to get from Anchorage where they were up to thinking real quick. So, and they have to get rid of all the other people for the final showdown. So it's

Dan: No, they worked out well then. And that's what they did and they get to the hot Springs and sure enough,

Sidey: John Rambo,

Dan: she is there.

Howie: what? I thought that when I was looking at the scenery, I said it was,

Reegs: oh, that's another brutal moment though. Isn't


When the police chief,

Sidey: it didn't.

S So you see him pointing, you know, he's, he's got them in his sights with the bow and arrow.


And you see the arrow just hit the floor. And I still was like, oh, we miss, you know,

and then no, it doesn't, it gone straight through his fucking neck.

Dan: Yeah.

And well he he's, he's got no chance is he's gone. A grabs, the Garney fi goes into the into the hot Springs and he finds the girl and he actually tries to warn her, that Verna is looking for, and next thing he gets nailed by

Sidey: shot to the heart

Dan: well, no, the other side, isn't it. I mean, it just goes, yeah, it just goes through the other shoulder, but completely stuns him.

And then this kind of weird scene of, well, I mean, we're getting all the metaphors are coming out now of, you know, wolves killing their own kind and things and how

Sidey: the

Dan: to do it and the Wolf pack and he starts to.

His hand around her neck.

Reegs: She unmasks him and,

Dan: they have a case of a kitchen, a cuddle and,

Reegs: Yeah. And they're brother and sister. Yeah.

Dan: and, and yeah, for the film is not obvious.

Reegs: I did pick up on it for, I did cause there are a couple of references.

Howie: She says I've known him ever

Reegs: Yeah And there's a photo of the two of them when they were younger.

And there's a couple of other references from the top, from the woman, the that's why she gets killed in the, or

Dan: yeah. They, she knows. Yeah. Yeah. So yes, the, it seems that the, the child then.

Born from brother and sister. And that was around the darkness they were talking about. And, and this kind of supernatural

Sidey: faith

Dan: but are they all wolves? Are they not? And, and that's kind of it then, isn't it. I mean, w w he is,

Howie: well, no, he, he leaves core Jeffrey Wright's character and he undoes the arrow end pull pulls there out.

Dan: It could have killed him,

Howie: have killed him, but he doesn't

Sidey: he respects his

head cause

he hasn't killed any wolves and other, the Wolf, and all that sort of metaphor. But, But basically I thought that because he was brought in to kill the wolves and actually said, no,

he was not there. I don't know, that he would know

that. But he respects, everyone thinks enough of him to not brutally slay him, like he

has every other fucking person in this

Howie: because after core, core corner LOLs back into unconscious and then he awakes again he crawls outside the cave and he encounters a pack of wolves. Doesn't it again?

Reegs: and they, they beat him off. And it's the same as.

Sidey: Yeah.

Howie: So Vernon Madora dig up Bailey's grave and pull the coffin behind them as they tracked through the snow.

Reegs: Yeah.

One thing I didn't one thing I didn't pick up on, which I did catch when I had a fucking Wikipedia thing in front of me and I was watching the movie in watching the scene was when Jeffrey Wright gets carted off in the snowmobile. There's a blonde woman who's sitting there, who is the mother of Vernon and Madora

Howie: Yeah. And she leaves quite sharply. Doesn't she? Yeah.

Dan: She takes something doesn't she actually. Y, well, she needs a bus, I

Reegs: puts some tunes

Dan: No, but she seems to be waiting for something. I didn't know whether it was another supernatural. Was you going to start making a

Reegs: I never really felt the supernatural stuff in this

Dan: but it just felt dark and yeah, it was. So I mean,

Reegs: humorless, bleak and unforgiving,

Dan: It was a movie that really a movie that really hooked me in for the first half an hour, to be honest, I was really kind of thinking what's going to happen and, you know, in the performances I really enjoyed seeing all the actors on. I thought they were, they were really good and I was just intrigued to see how this was going to play out.

I mean, how did you feel the first kind of part of

Sidey: a difficult for me

to comment on because I was

like, you know,

Dan: Yeah,

Sidey: when he finds

the boy it was

Reegs: just

Sidey: like, it was a bit of crushing.

like to be honest.

So I just found the whole thing fairly bleak and one note and wasn't sure if there was supposed to be something more to it that I wasn't getting, but it was just a difficult one.

for me.

to get. through,

Reegs: I didn't know whether to tell you not to watch the

film at all. I, wasn't sure. Would you prefer not to have seen.

Sidey: I mean,

you know, shit happens, you

Howie: I genuinely had no co I

Sidey: know, I know we wouldn't pick up.

Howie: I felt it got it got lost. He had a Prentice and cinematography. He had some great actors. I enjoy parts of it, but I felt it kind of led to an unfulfilling. Like you said, the supernatural part

Reegs: I'll be honest, right? Because of that scene. I was,

Sidey: not kilter,

Reegs: yeah. And I couldn't, so I kind of had to watch this because I just thought of you basically straight away and me and my misses, we're both talking about it.

Sidey: So

so for everyone else.



doesn't that the frame of reference is totally


because of, you know my history and stuff. But I think there's a good ish movie in there and people seem to like it, I think online.

Howie: You think it was self-indulgent split director?

Reegs: it was like narratively completely incoherent at times. And I had to really work hard to understand what the fuck was happening. Cause it's quite kind of dense. And I, yeah, maybe it was worth the rewatch.

I don't know. The emotional response was so much there was

difficult to,

Sidey: yeah. Yeah. I wasn't

really sure what was supposed to be in it for Cheong like

Dan: no it didn't make it

Howie: his daughter was missing his dog, his dog, he,


Reegs: all about wolves and you know, he, where he's pissed off at why infrastructure there's a cool bit where he talks about, you know, oh, you connected.

He's the it's like the white guy is saying, well, we connected you up with power and water and all that stuff. And he's like, well, I should be grateful for being able to have a shit. And you know, so they feel abandoned as a community, but they feel that they're more part of the

Dan: move to the middle of nowhere in Alaska. You know, it's going to be not much there isn't there, but I dunno, I first say at first half an hour four.

Okay. Kind of, yeah. You know, some, some really heroin scene, not the wind out here a little bit. And you think, oh wait, where is all this going to go? Was I still expected? Like I half expected him to resurrect the kid is something, you know, it, wasn't kind of sure where all this was going with the signs that were making an offense.

So when it, it finally kind of just finished, it left me feeling a little underwhelmed and under fulfilled, you know, I just fought.

I there's so many kind of loose ends there. I dunno if, if people that have read the book would really enjoy the film because they know all those underlying themes, even the incest, but it wasn't obvious to me, it was only afterwards

Sidey: Yeah I didn't really pick up on it I didn't know whether it was supposed to be two people who were into a supernatural thing, but there was this, isn't a supernatural world So it was just two people who believed in it, but

Dan: which is yeah.


Sidey: were just like off on a fucking weird like mission.


Dan: Well, that's

Sidey: never succeed

Dan: I think that's what it appeared to, to key on like, you know, to not key on core that he was looking at him because even when he's got the arrow for him and he thinks, oh, they're just about to fucking meet. He's gonna, he's gonna, he's just shot. Everybody's going to, God knows what to do to her.

What the fuck have I done all this for which was kind of how I felt with the film, but it, it, there was so much promise to it in that first 30 minutes of thought, there was a really good film in there, but the walls and the rest of it just seemed to Peter out and not make its mind up on

Reegs: It's normally the sort of thing I would really like, but I just found it grim and, and just unrelenting and yeah, just sucker punch of that scene as well. So yeah, it wasn't for me this one

Dan: and yeah, it's it's a really good scenes that worth watching.

Reegs: Yeah. There are some really good scenes. That's true.


Dan: but as far as the whole film together, it just didn't really hold it enough for me

Sidey: this film's the same year as ghost rider.

Howie: Whoa, what I saw and one I didn't at the time, surf's up is an unashamed unashamedly, a how family favorites, just above controversially marijuana. I have this, I don't care. What the fuck you're going to say next. I do not care. This is a proper family favorite. And we watched it again the other day and Magnus and Carra and I chuckled all the way through some of the

tremendous bets.

And I get a bit teary in some of the scenes as well, and I love the nostalgia about it all, but anyway,

there we go. So I'm going to listen to you shred this

Dan: on the table. No, I mean, it's straight off.

Howie: to you. Destroy

Dan: We've got a, we've got a cast of voice actors. Shiela boof who plays Cody?

Sidey: no problem with him

Dan: Jeff Bridges.

the big Z we've got

Ziri Zoe.

We've got John Heeder is chicken. Joe James Woods as Reggie Belafonte,

Reegs: like a Scottish guy

Dan: And we've got other people we've got we've got Kelly Slater in Rob Machado as well, who are two

Reegs: Kelly slate. It's just a penguin in this world. I love

Howie: Yeah, although this is a weird world. I don't understand that there are seagulls girls who fly over a nonsense sentence.


Reegs: there's the thing about chicken just blows my

Howie: Yeah,

Reegs: we'll go into it.

Dan: I mean, it, it features around a surfing penguin.

Who's kind of having a documentary film, made it

Howie: Well, it's a mock it's a surf documentary that I reckon a lot of us it's done in the style of a film that a lot of us would have seen.

That's a bit like happy go. Lucky filming. W well, I remember watching surf videos when P was canceled in the cricket pavilion. So we scraped.

Reegs: Which one are you going to talk about? Is big Wednesday. You're going to talk.

Howie: Well, there is big Wednesday, but there was some other one just called white big wave and a summer. And it was all that kind of really chilled out relaxed.

Occasionally the KA sound boom would fall into shot occasionally, and then you'd interview rural surfers. And then it would be intercut with archive footage of surfers doing their thing and whatnot. And so it was a weird, kind of had a weird bit of credibility about it in that it didn't seem like an animal.

I know it's animation and it's a set in a bizarre fictional worlds.

Dan: You,

can tell that that's the people that are in this film have consulted surface as they've come into this and, and got that kind of right.

You know, that, that fun. Cool Californian sort of attitude that Cody's got, even though he's in the Antarctic and it's all, it's all, it's all. Yeah. It's all ridiculous. The kind of fat that he suffered on, on shards of ice. And,

Reegs: yeah, well, he does want to get a job.

The only job is working at the fish


basically, and he wants to be a surfer. That is his call.

Sidey: so Sorting fish. And it's like, it's so

Dan: And it he's had that core ever since big Z came to shiver town shiver, Paul, sorry. And and gave him one of the rarest show necklaces, even though he had like 10 others behind, but

Howie: E you get, like, you, you get an interview with one of the stars of the show, which is Glen, his older brother who is this fucking grumpy, gnarly fucking bloke and his mother Edna.

And the bit that makes us laugh immediately. And I was, when they talk about the fact that Cody hasn't got a dad and it cuts to a picture of his dad and then it zooms out and it's this fucking enormous shark about or Orca

Reegs: you. See, it's like seconds away from

Dan: well they do that a couple of times with chicken Joe A. Little bit later on, I never knew my father and his zooms out to a KFC box or something, doesn't it.

But yeah, there's you know, we, we, we eventually follow young Cody as he jumps on the back of a whale to go to a surf

Reegs: Yeah Pango island, isn't it, there is not before three Jewish penguins talk about de filter fish, which I enjoyed.

Howie: I forgot about that. It's basically there's like a cha a talent scout named Michael R brome, a bro witch, who is trying to find people to go for the big Z Memorial surfing contest on penguin island, as we said, and Cody fails because there's no surf,

Reegs: Well, we get, we get sports, penguin, entertainment, network span.

Howie: Yeah. We got that TV

Reegs: And they cover it like a surf competition like you would do.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. And it's all over the top. It's kind of dodgeball commentators, isn't it. And it's good. Fun. The, so Cody manages to get a place in the, in the competition and he's first we'll taste of the, the action and the competition comes when he foolishly tries to take on tank.

Who's the, and I say foolishly, but he's, he's a brave little, he's a brave little penguin.

Sidey: stuff

Dan: up for his mate. And he gets absolutely tanked

Sidey: Well, the guy says you know, you don't want to,

You don't want to do something bad because you know, when this many cameras are just kept played over and over and over again, So when he wipes


on that wave, it literally they'd play it back from every angle.

It's really funny

Dan: Yeah. And it's, it looks really bad. And, but the, the life God is, is pretty hot herself penguin

Sidey: that's


Dan: yeah. And and she kind of revives him and rescues him and gives him a second chance.

Reegs: Well, will you have, haven't also talked about, cause in the geography of where they are, there's a place called the boneyard and his hero, big Sikh.

The guy had given a medal, his inspiration

had a he'd wiped out against tank, the shredder Evans. And so he's gone missing as

Dan: Yeah, no, he, oh, he's he's, he's in the, he's gone, he's gone. He's in the graveyard boneyard. So he's gone until we find him again about

Howie: Well what about, Cody's drown him in rescued and he's been stung by a sea urchin named Ivan and it cuts to Ivan.

It does like a quick interview. He gave me here, he hit me here. He hit me here. And then Lonnie has taken him to her uncle geek to help Cody recover from his

Reegs: Yeah.

It's clearly did we already know or is it there? It was big.

Sidey: yeah instantly.

Reegs: we instantly knew

Sidey: I mean, it's the dude,

right Yeah.

Reegs: And he passes on him, which is nice. Yeah.

Sidey: It cuts to the three girls and

they're like,


about it. How'd you cure with him? They're like, hello?

Howie: I do like the little penguins. That's one of my daughter's favorites, especially the one that keeps trying to drown himself. So he gets rescued

a little

Dan: Oh yeah. He just wants to keep getting rescued by Lonnie. Doesn't he?

Howie: that's the one. But yeah

Dan: Well, there's lots of potty humor and stuff in this. Isn't there. There's kind of like poop and references, but there's nothing.

I mean, this is all really good family-friendly stuff,

Sidey: wholesome, content

Dan: but it's for the adults as well. You're laughing at some of the jokes at one point, he's kind of introducing his his, his girls and their tank I'm talking about and the trophies and it, it kind of

Reegs: they make a masturbation joke, donate.

These polishing is very face.

Dan: Yeah. And that's it, it's kind of going to go over the head of, of the kids and things, but that's about as racy as it gets.

And it's very


Reegs: and he's a stoner check-in obviously we even talked about chicken.

Howie: which is uh

Reegs: character

Howie: yeah. It's that when they do the

Reegs: the no look dropping

Howie: that they do the little biog about him and, and he's not walking around in those squared and he goes, come on, man. He, the squid, the squid. And he goes, it tastes like just like ch and it's like nothing.

Reegs: Yeah. And then the penguin, because he it's difficult to explain, but he ends up befriending a tribe of local savages that are also penguins the points attempting to cook him. And then he gives them squid and they say it tastes like chicken.

So yeah, chickens walk around and about the same height and build and can do the same sorts of about the same intelligence levels yet they would eat them in this world. It's an interesting

Dan: We just, yeah, that just kind of slips slips through really? You don't, until you talk about it, you don't really think about it too much, but that all happens. That will definitely happens.

Reegs: I mean, how much should we want to go into it? I did really enjoy this speak. C has to read discoveries, mojo. Do we want to go into all that? And

Dan: Well, I don't want to spoil it too much for anybody that hasn't seen the it

Sidey: there's like a ritual, you know, you've got a card, your own board

you know, I was getting Mr. Miyagi vibes for you know, wax on Microsoft for that and you know, you get the competition, so it heats up,

We'll Cody when,

will he not you know,

Dan: it there's loads going on to keep everybody entertained and almost surprise. You've seen it two or three times. I mean, I've seen it a couple of times.

Howie: I love the soundtrack. think so. Absolutely. I'm really like reminds me of playing Tony Hawk's pro skater on the PST as well.

Reegs: when the new radicals comes on

Howie: Well, yeah,

Reegs: they've surfed into the sunset, well, no, it's a good moment. It's a good moment. And it looks incredible.

This the water,

Howie: it, just looked fantastic. Some of the

Sidey: So that's why I bring up that it was exactly the same year

as What

we watched for the midweek, because the visuals don't stack up.

Reegs: no, it's a good point.

Yeah. Maybe not to spoil it, but it's, it is a good

Dan: it's a solid choice. I mean it's an hour and a half. So

Reegs: it

Dan: normally, yeah, no,

Reegs: and in a pretty unexpected way, I think. And it has a pretty good chilled out message behind it as well. So

Howie: Everyone's a bit too quick to forgive Z for putting them through a good couple of years of trauma by faking his own death though.

There is that level of oh, he's back. Brilliant.

Dan: forgiveness,

Reegs: Well, I'm sure there's probably a lot of

like, you know, going to see counselors and stuff, but that is a very different movie after

Dan: kids, kids from five to 50 are gonna enjoy this one though. Aren't they? I mean, it's

Howie: When you're

Dan: to that. You will not enjoy this. You're either too young or you're just too old.

Howie: soulless after 50 or incontinence.

Reegs: All right. Yeah. It's good though. And um bridges is kind of reprising or channeling the dude a bit isn't they?

Sidey: yes. Yup. absolutely.

A hundred percent agree.

Reegs: Chris Barco, I've got the guy's name. He, the reason this is good is because it's got real pedigree because I could get the guy's

name. No.

The writer, Chris buck, he wrote and directed this, and he did the same for frozen and frozen too. And he also has an original story credit for toy story two.

So that is some fucking chops there.

Howie: Do watch it pass the credits.

Reegs: Yes. I watched all the way to the end and I saw the very end, right at the end where posing addresses the um Glen trashes, the uh Hmm.

Dan: Yeah, I like that. When you watch stuff through the credits,

Reegs: I think the handheld aesthetic works so well. Like really surprisingly, like you say, considering how old it was, benchmarked against all the other shit.

Dan: it's a, it's a strong recommend from me.

Sidey: Here you go. Great.

Howie: So on sky at the moment. So go for it. And

Sidey: on Netflix,


think it's

Howie: home. One of them

Sidey: so I'm one of them cause I watched it on one of the streaming services. So it's available pretty

Reegs: pretty much everywhere. They're just giving it away,

Sidey: which is the thing we didn't say about ghosts Just all the same for that.

Howie: The thing I was going to add about ghost rider, I forgot is that I'm sure that when I watched it a while ago, it said will shortly be taken off of Netflix. It's still there.

Reegs: Yeah. Well, I was saying to society in the car on the way up here that like, it's just on everything.

It's on break. I can't give it away. So on sky it's on prime. It's on Netflix. Like I, there was a guy on the corner who was just streaming it to people's. You want buzz?


Dan: look at.

Reegs: Ghost rider. Watch it. You

Howie: up

Sidey: Thanks. Howie for some pretty traumatic content, and some also very enjoyable content. So that was a mixed bag. I've got some nominations for next week the mid weeker is going to be Scott Pilgrim versus the world. Anyone seen that?

Howie: think I have a

Sidey: that's available on prime as in on prime

you don't have to pay for on prime.

So that's on Brian. The main feature we're going to watch the lighthouse

Reegs: Nice.

Sidey: which is Defoe and Ms. Patterson. Um I

haven't, I don't, I think you're probably gonna have to rent that if you haven't seen it. The kids thing it's trip down memory lane. We're going for the magic Roundup.

and I

will Come back to you with a top five. Once I've come up with something and genius,

Dan: I look

Sidey: on that. So wish me luck. Cause I'm away this weekend cycling a hundred miles

That's on Sunday. Yeah.

So I've got to

cram all this in and cycle around the whole world

and then get back for



Dan: We choose still be Wednesday to people listening

Sidey: to

people don't even really care about that. So on that bombshell, all that remains is to say Sidey signing out.