Midweek Mention... A Prayer Before Dawn

A Prayer Before Dawn

Cris: What do you call that, the peepee hole

Reegs: thing? Urethral sounding.

Cris: Yeah, it's better than that.

Sidey: Dan not Dan, Chris. Chris. This

is your choice.

Dan: Yes.

We sometimes call him Chris, sometimes we call him not

Sidey: Dan.

Well, be

fair, not really. Yes

Cris: Well, to be fair, not really. Yes. And no, I've listened to the guy William Moore on a podcast randomly. I can't remember why, because it said, I think it's because it said in the, in the title of the podcast, boxer, former boxer or something like that. Tell story or something like that.

And I thought, okay, let me listen to this. I can't remember on which podcast he was. And then it, it came out that I, I listened to a little bit of his story and then I looked into it and he was talking about the fact that they made a movie about him, which was about to be released and then I've seen the that it was a special selection from the conference festival.

So then I thought, okay, this should be an interesting viewing, which it turns out it is very interesting viewing, depending on which. Where you're looking at it, but also the fact that when Wednesday, the day after tomorrow, I am going to Thailand

on a holiday. Hopefully

Sidey: Less like this. Less like this story. This

Dan: this story of Billy Moore

Sidey: Yeah. So he wrote the he wrote the book. It's a

Dan: different character,

Sidey: Is

the book

called A Prayer Before Dawn?

as well?

Cris: It's a memoir.

Sidey: has then been adapted into this story. So a prayer before Dawn, set in Thailand specifically.

Cris: Yes.

Specifically in prison.

Dan: Yeah.

It's,

Cris: it is based on the fact that the name is based on the fact that every morning they would have to go and do the prayer.

Reegs: What time?

Cris: don't know

Sidey: It's unclear. I

Cris: I don't know, you'll have to, you'll have to figure that

Dan: it out

Sidey: it starts off with a rumble,

right?

Reegs: Yeah, it's it's two people getting prepped

for a fight, which I didn't realize at first. It's a white guy, it's John it's

Joe Cole. Not.

Dan: Not Joe

Reegs: Cole, the other Joe Cole as He is styled on Twitter. He was in Peaky Blinders, played John

Shelby and he's Kind of got

this boyish face, but here he's massive, like, he's really built, and he's

got a shaved

head and he's being Vaseline'd up by

a kid who's got a really distinctive birthmark. On his face,

and then what I didn't realize is the kid is also

getting Vaseline and roped up and is also going to

fight, In fact, he's the first fight we're going to see, the kid.

Dan: And, and one of the things to mention in this is a lot of these actors aren't professional actors. They've been brought into it as you know, performers specifically for this film, for that

Sidey: well, yeah, they're either ex convicts or they're people who have been found guilty and are waiting. they're sentencing, so this is like pretty hardened criminals

Dan: prepare for.

We

Reegs: just fell off the

bike in three hours.

Yeah, it's a true story.

Dan: the dragon. He's

Reegs: the dragon. It's not ideal fight preparation, indeed. He gets

knocked down twice, I think you said

Sidey: But he gets up again.

Reegs: He does,

yes.

Pete: They're not ever gonna keep him down.

Reegs: And

the fights, at least at this stage, are of the very

disorientating, shaky cam, like very close to the action, variety, more you feel the impact but don't see a lot

of stuff, but there are a few

different styles. of

Dan: A lot of the filming, it seems to be done by hand held.

Reegs: bit shaky

Dan: Recorders and a little bit shaky grainy, but

Reegs: It's not recorders, it was definitely cameras.

Yeah. Oh

Dan: Oh back in my day, of course

Sidey: but it is,

Reegs: pipe it out. But yeah,

it is like,

got a documentary type

Sidey: and then there's also in

general,

It's quite

disorientating

Visually, but also the soundtrack is I didn't know if I was watching the right version of French because there's zero dialogue. And I was waiting for someone to speak to know if I was watching it in the right language or anything like that.

And it's

ages and ages before anyone

Pete: I'm

Reegs: And even when they do that. the Thai people, There is no translation except at key points for

the Thai dialogue. So

you are

absolutely in Billy's shoes. You, you, you know, You don't understand the world that's happening around you except by inference.

Pete: Well, I'm glad

you mentioned that, because I had exactly the same sensation.

Am I watching, or am I just watching a bad version of it? Because the sound is really quite clangy and echoey. But disorientating, and I think that's Probably what they were looking for

Reegs: I think so.

Pete: it's to kind of almost give you

Sidey: sensation of

Pete: Yeah, A sensation of what it, what it's like for

Sidey: Yeah. So

know he likes, Yeah.

he gets pasting and we know that he likes to chase

the dragon. And

we see where he's, well, we see

where he's staying.

It's not the Ritz Carlton.

Cris: He's just, he goes to the strip club. You can, you

see him

Sidey: Yeah.

Cris: Some

Sidey: Yaba Yaba,

Cris: Yeah, but to, to some other guy in a, in a strip club toilet.

And then it just goes to where he lives, which is not the most glamorous of places.

Reegs: No.

Dan: Well, wait till you get over there, Chris, you might change your mind. But

it's

yeah, he's in Chiang Mai. He's up in the north of Thailand. You know, obviously they've got their own drug problems there as well as all the traditional ones.

They've got their own ones like Yaba and all these rest of them and, and like so many other, you know, people that have gone there trying to make a few quid, it falls through. He's trying to make money in, in boxing. He's trying to get by and he doesn't really appreciate the dangers, I think, of what he's doing because it's quite casual.

He would have and I'm reading a little bit. Of his book, thinking about his book and also the the accounts he's given afterwards where he just, his guard was quite low because he would pay a copper off on the, you know, you're not wearing a helmet on his way home or something on the bike and okay, you know, you'd have to give a little bit of money there.

So he didn't really relate what he was doing to being caught.

Sidey: So what, what time period are we talking about that He did

all

Cris: Well, I think he was released in

2010.

Reegs: He was,

Sidey: Because all I've ever heard about doing this sort of stuff in Thailand that you hear in the news of Brits getting locked up, like Absolutely, this is a fucking no go, don't do it.

so to, I just think it's fucking naive to

Dan: Oh no, he's

Sidey: But anyway, he, he, This is how he ends up.

Reegs: Yeah, so, he's got some drugs, and he buys some dope, he sells

some dope,

and he's arrested at home in a very

Dan: Bang to rights. Yeah.

Reegs: Police come in, shouting and screaming just before I think he, he's alerted, isn't he, because he's trying to

shove,

Cris: he's trying to shove all these drugs up

Reegs: up his arse, yeah, which he does successfully get up there, and then they will come out in excruciating

fashion when he goes

through the sort of humiliating

and

degrading process of being processed. By the Thai Police because he's very quickly taken, you know, photoed. At the When he has his photo taken, a guy slips him a little bit of

dope. one of the guards. with a beard who feature later because he's cottoned on to Billy Being an addict, I guess, or at least needing that. I don't know if he's an addict at this stage,

because the movie is

not clear about backstory at all. You know, that stuff you were talking about is not

in the movie at all. It's, You're just presented with a series of events that are happening to this guy.

Dan: guy.

But you're right, he is processed through. It's very much

Cris: it's very graphic, how he

Sidey: Martin.

Cris: processed.

Dan: they're stripped naked. And

Sidey: so what I was saying about before where it's just shouting. There's no, you're not given subtitles, you're not given anything. you're in his position of just

being yelled at. And

just kind of looking at what other people do.

because it's a, it's a fucking factory line of open your mouth,

Cris: Tongue out,

Sidey: bend over,

Reegs: Trousers off, let me look up your

Sidey: He just has to copy what they're doing. He's got no idea and they're not asking nicely. It's fucking screamed instructions.

Reegs: And then, like you were saying, it's got this.

Immersive realistic shooting

style the camera moves in and out of it

and all that sort of stuff So you feel really close to the action.

It's basically an endless like an hour like an hour and a

half of an anxiety

Dan: Yeah, it's not many lols up into this point.

Pete: Some

of, it's to say when he walks from one room to another during part of the process processing the camera will be like right up against the back of his head almost like Almost like you're a guard kind of like with a gun at his back or something like that again You get this almost like first person Perspective of

the you

know, all of the senses of

it.

Reegs: Yeah. and it's

very frightening As a viewer when

you're watching it you feel frightened for him, don't you, as

Pete: straight away, like pretty much because of everything like you say the sound the like the you know, being confused by the the

Sidey: it's so disorientating and yeah,

Reegs: and

also

because he has

got such

he's got this really

boyish face, but he's also Like, violent

and scary.

Dan: and in a shit lot of trouble because he's, he goes into his cell. And it's not a luxury one. There's no kind of

Sidey: It's not like

Dan: no, there's no

Reegs: maybe 40 guys, 50 guys, is it? in a room that's not a

lot bigger than the room we're in at the moment.

Which as you can see is, you know. There's

Cris: Which as you can see is,

Sidey: a little blankie.

Dan: Well, they're, they're, and they're, they're laced.

Pete: like,

spaces on the

Reegs: Yeah, his was on top of a corpse.

Pete: just next to a dead guy.

Dan: Yeah, he, he has, that's his first day. And there's no, you know, you're so close to people. Legs and arms going over you. And yours

Sidey: I would have been very uncomfortable with that.

Reegs: Yeah,

Dan: really.

Reegs: I like my own space,

Sidey: Big time,

Pete: we've shared a bed in Spoon before. You never

Sidey: I know, but I

get, I,

I

almost get very, like,

don't cross the

fucking central line, like, the line. of demarcation, don't come.

across, so this was like a

no.

Pete: like

Dan: you'd want all

Pete: that, for that

Dan: want all your pillows just lined up in between people, wouldn't you?

Pete: can I speak to the guards please?

Dan: wall of, can I have a wall of pillows?

Just allow, no, you can't.

Reegs: And it, yeah,

Cris: you can see him shaking, you can see that he's got withdrawals from the drugs. You can see him really in a bad way and there's this,

Sidey: well, it's the realization. of This is how it's going to be for X

amount of

years.

Reegs: Well,

there's a gang leader there. who's,

who's

Cris: no, he first gets welcomed by this I think, I don't know

Sidey: I thought it was a lady boy.

Cris: Yeah

Dan: Catoy

Cris: trans lady And she kind of, she's the only one that kind of speaks a few words of English And he's trying to turn around from her and she just points out to say The guy that you're trying to kind of hug is dead

And then

Pete: But, But this time he's, he's had a hit.

Cause he's like, you could say he's so yeah, he's an addict but because he's been given past this stuff He's been able to like get a hit. and then she sees that cause she's

addicted. as well. So she, he, she

Says well, yeah. Yeah, you're the same as me. But yeah, like Straight away it's

Sidey: it's, fairly miserable. it's a big thing. yeah.

Pete: And

Reegs: And there's a few new

guys in, and one of the new guys

when Billy

goes to the toilet is

hideously,

like,

Sidey: well they call him over first. That's

Cris: That's, after the first thing is he kind of goes in the first holding cells where is the dead guy and the lady boy and

Sidey: yeah. he,

doesn't meet all the tattooed ones straight

Cris: no, and then he, he has that that fight.

Reegs: about the

Tramadol. Yes. He's desperate to get some

Cris: yeah, he goes to get some trauma. All is

very graphic, but there comes a point where. He goes to the infirmary and he is like, oh, I need some Tramadol.

I heard it's free and the guy's like, not for you. It is not. And then he is like, do you have any cigarettes? You basically pay

Reegs: got no currency at all.

Sidey: Yeah.

So, so yeah, he's not with the, the tattooed guys who clearly are real life gang members. that you know.

Reegs: They, well, I mean they are like head to toe Yeah. in tattoos.

Sidey: Yeah, and we've

been told the instructions when there is a I think there was a little bit of subtitles but it's like, no

gambling, no

tattoos.

and

all those punishment. He's like,

Christ, tell the line, please.

And then it's not until he's, so he's put in the, the dorm I think they call it, with those guys. And they kind of summon him over, and it wasn't clear to me exactly what they were doing, like other than

Like, checking him out to see if they were going to rape

Cris: like the leader of the cell.

Sidey: Cause,

Cris: everyone has to go

Sidey: do some sort of audition y thing

with him. And then they decide they

fuck him off.

And the whole time you I was fucking

nervous

that something was going to happen to him. And then there's an even younger

looking, like, waif.

childish looking

boy. That that they kind of,

home in on.

And then, you say

when he goes to the toilet, he's like pinned

against the wall by someone at

knife point. And made

to just fucking watch while they write this guy.

Reegs: Two of two of them rape him,

Sidey: absolutely

one of the most horrendous scenes I've ever seen in the It's not this is, I mean, it happens in Shawshank, but not fucking like this. This is so

graphic.

Pete: Yeah, it is, absolutely. And that scene just before with the

sizing him up and everything like that. They're also, it's just exercising the control and letting him know, even though they

Sidey: don't speak the

Pete: language.

Because they get him to do a load of press ups. They go, right, give me 20 press ups. But whilst they're giving him press ups, they're like, goosing him. Like, sticking a finger up his bum or slapping his arse and stuff. And it's almost like, we can basically, you're our plaything, we can do whatever we want.

Although, They don't do it, it's, not, sort of, like, too overtly on him, obviously,

Reegs: well, he's, shown that he can handle himself, right? he's, already spent a bit of time in

Pete: though he's not a massive guy, he's like, he's very

Reegs: he's a lot bigger than the Thai

Pete: He's

a lot bigger than them, and I guess they know that he's probably gonna be a bit problematic if it does all go off.

Reegs: Well, he is a boxer as well, you know,

Dan: There's never just one, you know, there's five, six of

Pete: And they've usually got some kind of

weapon in their hand, like a bit of glass or a little shank or

Reegs: or something. Or A fan blade?

Pete: Yes.

yeah, yeah,

Reegs: I hadn't, I didn't have a clue what was going on. He's absolutely out of his mind.

but

Sidey: been killed. Well, you

Reegs: Well,

you see them.

You see them take it down while he's off his tits, like on some, some smack that he's managed

to

Sidey: to procure.

It's just

Reegs: sirens are going off, you're led outside, there's dogs, there's

people shouting at you again,

Very much the experience of the movie.

And he's framed, isn't he?

Sidey: experience of the,

movie. what do you call it? when he is on his

Todd, after the fight. he's put it Solitary. Solitary

1. It's a fucking like little hatch.

Had To climb.

into it.

Pete: literally like a dog

Sidey: How fucking long was he in there 'cause that is brutal.

Anyway, there So People are dying, people are getting killed. It's

fucking rape. the rape leads

to suicide. the

guys hanged himself in the night. It's absolutely fucking brutal.

Reegs: Yeah. And then he is paid off effectively by that guy with the beard Who slipped him the drugs, who had an altercation with some two Muslim chefs

and at lunch, and he basically pays off Billy via, you know, getting drugs to him to go and beat the shit out

of these

Sidey: Well, he just says beat them up, he nearly kills

Reegs: Nearly kills them. Yeah,

Pete: yeah, but obviously they're the, you know, like, the

Sidey: He didn't seem to get any comeuppance for that.

Pete: Like, the the vehicle for his All of his frustration and,

Sidey: and

Pete: like, you know, fear.

Dan: Pain and fear,

Pete: yeah.

Reegs: will have been covered up by the guard, right? And their drug smuggling operation. And plus, he does get come up, at least in terms of the movie, because he tries to commit

suicide

Sidey: straight

Reegs: afterwards,

doesn't he?

It's, it's

Too much.

Dan: Yeah.

Pete: Yeah. He gets found pretty quickly after he's, he's done it

Reegs: and it's actually a visit from the Birthmark boy that

sort of gets him firing again.

The boy comes

to see him in

Cris: Yeah, before that there's, he actually sees what looks like a woman when he's in the infirmary after he slices his wrist. He sees like through Passes of passages of being asleep and trying to wake up and that he sees this woman and then he gets a visit and he's like, why would I, who's visiting me? And is the boy that's at the beginning, the type Thai boxer kid that comes in and he actually kind of says, I'm sorry to see you like this.

And that's one of the passages that actually has a translation.

Reegs: yes,

Cris: Because, and that's the one that

Reegs: one of the few parts of dialogue

in the whole movie

Cris: that's the one where you actually think he understands, where, where he looks at him and then he, because you can see through the times when he's in his holding, like in his dorm or whatever, he sees the, the Thai boxing team of the prison.

Reegs: Yeah, I didn't, I hadn't clocked that that's who that

was. We

kept seeing them running around the

courtyard. This

group

of men who were being treated slightly differently. But I

didn't know

Cris: They had more freedom. They would run outside. They would kind of play football. They would play that kind of football volleyball that they play in Thailand with a little ball.

Reegs: And

but we haven't seen them fight or anything

because we've literally just been by Billy's

side the whole time. In, you know, pretty

much in one room or in the,

Pete: yeah,

What

Reegs: So

Sidey: there's a

little bit of

an upturn in his fortunes.

because he he

Starts a relationship.

y

Reegs: Well, he sees it's boxing.

He sees boxing is the

route to get him through

this. right? That

the kid reminds him of that,

and that's

why he wants to join the boxing team,

and that's why he gets in with fame,

because he has

to get cigarettes from her. To

Pete: So, I mean, she's in, she's in prison as well, but obviously in a, in a different section and works in this kind of like shop or, or like this.

Dan: Seems to, seems to have privileges,

Pete: exactly. Yeah, Cause it like wearing sort of like nicer clothes and everything, so, but yeah, he, he recognizes her from the, from the strip club and, and basically says, look, if you can give me some cigarettes, I promise I'm getting some money blah, blah, blah, which is obviously a you know, a tall story, but it's to try and use the cigarettes as currency to, Buy into games with the fish fighting and also eventually to buy, to get a whole box of cigarettes so that

he can

use it to pay

Reegs: for the box. the coach won't even look at him will

he? He's chain smoking fags. But then when he gives him a box of CDs, it brings him and it's not long.

Actually, it was pretty quickly straight away, but almost straight away, they notice,

Hang on a minute. This guy's got something about him,

Cris: yeah,

Yeah,

Sidey: They teach him the, like, kicking technique.

He's obviously good with his fists, but he watches one guy just fucking destroy those pads. Yeah. And yeah. straight, Sort of, after a little bit of coaching, he seems

to

pick it

up dead quick. So, He he

ingratiates himself with that gang. And he It's great, this bit, It's like free training. It's like gym membership

for

nothing.

He's so liquid.

Reegs: They go for dinner and one guy's like,

when I realized I was going to be in prison for five years, I went crazy and killed like three other people. You're like,

Cris: like,

Reegs: then. And they're

Pete: Everyone shares their anecdotes.

Cris: Yeah. And the other guy's like, oh yeah, my, my family was poor, so I decided to be a hitman and I just went and killed a few people.

One in the south of Thailand, the one in Bangkok, pow Powow.

Okay. You seem like a nice guy then.

Sidey: We know it's a bit more relaxed 'cause he is able to get a tattoo.

So he has a

bond and he is bonded

enough with these

guys that trust

them enough to tattoo

Pete: he has a bond, he's bonded enough

Reegs: Yeah, he gets

Pete: these guys that trust them enough to tattoo different set of rules, I mean, still not you know,

Great by any stretch, but, but far better than the

Sidey: he does manage to fuck it up

Reegs: up though, doesn't

he?

Cris: because he sees fame with some other guy.

Reegs: someone had to die. It's a bit of a joke because he's,

Sidey: This bit was great because he's, he's skipping. Like, really like a box of proper, like, double unders or whatever, and the noise of the skipping becomes the soundtrack, of when he goes fucking nuts

and starts, like, trying to smash through the, the wire to get out of her, he's

completely lost it.

and Like you say, just fucking blown you know,

he's managed to make

a half

decent like you know, go of things in there,

but now he's fucked it

Reegs: you know, go of things in there, but no, he's fucked it it

was really good. When they train him up for his fight, he's sized up against this other guy,

and they get a bit, like,

swear off, and we actually join the fight between the fourth and fifth

rounds, and he wins the

fifth one, and it's

so good, like, They, it's

all one take and you see a lot of the punches connecting, like

there's no,

fucking

flinching on that shit.

Like, that

Sidey: say that he got, he did get, like, battered making

Reegs: You could see it,

It's, it's there on screen. There's no way to fake

that shit. so anyway, yeah,

we do get

but yeah, so he lapses

back into,

to the drugs

and then the gang get back into it, don't they

They,

Cris: also he goes back into the gym and batters that guy. Yeah. Because he's so angry and he's on the gear again.

He just gets angry and he just basically stamps on that guy. So

Pete: a sparring partner, but he, he just goes over the top and and loses it. But that, that's kind of put

to bed pretty quickly. He like, comes back in and apologizes

Sidey: He has to start from scratch again, doesn't

he? With them.

Pete: yeah. But, like you say, re then he gets kind of like accosted in the yard by the by the gang.

Reegs: And at this, point, has the prison warden said to him, I think he has

already the prison warden has said you're gonna fight in the tournament. You're gonna be the first

Westerner, non Thai, to fight in a

Dan: thai to fight in

Reegs: tournament, like, so big honour and a route out for him from all of this in some

Pete: But then, obviously the gang cotton onto this, and, obviously they've got money on him, or they've got, you know, they, they decided they're going to, they're going to back him. But they, they put over in, in pretty strong, terms what the consequences of his failure are, which is that they're going to inject it There's a guy

Sidey: I've got AIDS. with

blood

Pete: from his arm.

I've got

Reegs: AIDS. You want?

Pete: Do you want AIDS?

Sidey: Cheers.

Pete: Yeah. I

don't know how you answer that question. other than No thanks.

So

yeah, no, no pressure then on, on the fight.

Sidey: Well he's

also started to vomit blood. And excruciating pain. As a consequence, because he goes, he has to obviously go

to the infirmary.

And he's told this is years of booze and drugs.

and also the fighting. He's got an extreme, he's got a hernia case. And he's told you fucking need to

knock the fighting on that. it. probably needs a hernia operation, I would

suggest. But also, you know, your next fight could be your

last.

But he can't not do it. It's another case of his

Cris: just

Reegs: Yeah,

Sidey: another

case of his self

Cris: Again, the same as at the start, with the gasoline

Sidey: we basically almost cut straight from that conversation to him

preparing for

the fight again. The Same as at the

start with the

Vaseline and the kind of pre fight massage.

and all the Taping up of his hands and then the walk to the ring. And here we get to see

that

it's

quite a full on thing. All the guards

is the people that are in uniform.

front row to watch.

People cheering him

Cris: is also, a quite a little bit of a context in the training where he does a spinning elbow where he gets taught about the spinning

Sidey: be important

Cris: which, which,

Reegs: who knows whether

that move will come

Cris: yeah, exactly what we

Dan: didn't do the crane at any point, that's what I missed out

Cris: a point of teaching him how to kick and which might or not might come into play later, but there's definitely the spinning elbow that they teach that as well.

Sidey: Yeah, so he has, it has the fight, the guy, I was worried 'cause the guy looked fucking,

Pete: main

Sidey: like, hard as nails.

like .Um, and it's another one of these fights where as the fight progresses, I

mean at

the start the camera's all over the place and very close in and it's hard to see, but as he gets beaten more and more it's like blurry and even more disorientating. Until, well he's, he's hit in the, the troublesome hernia area.

Reegs: Multiple

Sidey: clearly, like absolutely

fucked and he's trying to mask it or not give away that he's fucked. I

Pete: Yeah, '

cause he basically collapses after the first

Sidey: Yeah, And he's had a the guy gives him a cheap Yeah,

Pete: yeah, after

the bell.

Sidey: So they go out for the, I don't know if it's the last round or whatever it is, but like you say, he does do the spinning elbow sort of finisher, which like, catches the guy off guard and he KOs him.

The referee raises his arm and he's able to sort of, kind of soak up the adulation for a few seconds before he just spits out

blood.

and all over the

place and just collapses.

And you're thinking, is he going to

die or what? I mean, But the

Reegs: that one. But the hospital is serenely quiet and there's nobody around.

Sidey: It's

Reegs: It's a huge juxtaposition. It feels incredible.

from

Cris: got the thing around his legs though, which he has had for a long time in the movie, even inside the prison, also outside, the

Sidey: He's shackled up, yeah,

Cris: around his ankles, which looks,

that

looks brutal.

Sidey: Yeah, at

least they took it off

for the fight.

Reegs: Yeah.

Cris: yeah,

Dan: It's good they did that, Yeah.

Pete: But then he gets, so he needs a piss. So he gets escorted to the, to the toilet, so then the nurse who's escorted him gets called away to something else,

And when

he comes out of the toilet,

Sidey: he's

Pete: like, looks down the corridor

Reegs: no one

Pete: And I'm Yeah, And, and, and at this point I'm thinking, oh, he's, this is it, he's going to make a run for it, and he does,

Sidey: yeah, but then I was worried about that. Like, oh, he's going to get

caught and fucking shot. get,

Reegs: It's a great moment of the film, this bit, as he walks out, you know, slowly, looks. There are a

couple of people he has to

avoid, but it's a fairly

uneventful stroll out of the

thing, and he procures some clothes

pretty quickly, and he gets quite far, it looks to me.

he's

Sidey: a railway tracks.

Pete: tracks, and he

Reegs: and then he just Stops, and yeah, looks down the train tracks exactly. And then stops and turns back in

Pete: I was trying to think, I mean, obviously the book would explain a lot more about what his like thinking was at that point in time, but I didn't know if it was you know, like he's looking down the train track and he doesn't know what's that way, but at least he knows what's back that like what's behind him.

I, couldn't really work out what the, like motivation for him, like turning around or maybe he just felt, I, need to be in hospital. I'm fucked or.

I

Sidey: I was thinking, oh well,

The first

place he goes to try and get his shackles off, they're just going to turn

him in.

Cris: first place he goes to try and get a shackled or a foot that's been

Sidey: and not doing

Cris: in? Either I'm going to stay here and die because whoever's going to find me, they're not going to look after me or I'm going to go back and

Dan: I've got Arthur

Cris: and I'm in the infirmary.

These people are going to look after me until I'm back. And also he said that he trusted the boxing team

Reegs: yeah,

Cris: To

be almost like he had a part,

Sidey: of

Cris: part of a family, not a family, but a group of people, his own

Sidey: team, just teammates.

Cris: Yeah,

Pete: I guess the way, Luke is like, boxing obviously is highly revered in time, specifically Muay Thai, isn't it? Like Thai boxing is, is highly revered.

Not only was, is he the only you know, non Thai guy to, represent a prison in these, like, in this competition, but he's gone and won it. So now he's standing within the prison within his kind of peers and even the guards and everything and with the

Dan: Yeah, there's

Pete: he's gonna it and And perhaps there's like recognition of like, right, well I'm gonna have at least a better life in this hellhole.

Dan: Yeah.

Sidey: So he does go back?

Reegs: he does go

back,

Cris: then they show him walking back through the prison. Through the doors, and then he

just ends up being face to face with the actual

Sidey: It's supposed to

Reegs: supposed to be

his

Sidey: his

dad but but played by the real McCoy. Yeah.

Reegs: And

the camera really

lingers on him. And he too has a sort of boyish face.

Cris: Although

he does have half of his ear missing, you can see that he has been through the wars.

Reegs: you can see why they

chose Joe

Sidey: Cole

Reegs: for this. So yeah, he, they

just kind of smile, and then we just get some closing

titles, which is when they reveal

that this is all based on a true story. It's not one of those

based on a

Cris: It's not one of

Reegs: It's at the end of the movie that you're told everything that you've just seen. Is true, and it, and it

tells you that he was released after serving three

years by, pardoned by the King of

Sidey: of Thailand.

No, he was sent away. It did some time in the UK. I

Dan: he's repatriated to the UK and then

Sidey: Which must have felt

like a holiday camp.

in comparison.

Dan: you know, it's, yeah, there's no doubt about it prisons are not a great place to be.

I think if you're in an Asian prison in Bangkok or any of the, it's

Sidey: it's one to avoid.

Dan: nightmare. I mean Yeah, it is, it is one to avoid.

And

Reegs: himself hit him, wasn't he he was back in the house. So he's

Dan: So, when this film came out, he was in prison himself again, wasn't he?

He was back in prison for a burglary. So, it's kind of continued to haunt him as far Though now, the last doc like, documentary or, or interview I read,

He

was trying to hit the straight and narrow. He's got a kid and he was looking at Nurturing this kid and all the things that he didn't have because he was dragged up I mean, I think the old man was you know Really tough on him and he was an alcoholic and so he didn't have the best start in life And

Reegs: Yeah, but the movie pulls no punches about how complicit he is in his own downfall, and I assume that

that is also his Take on

what's happened in his

Dan: in the, I I think, so that comes from, comes from the book that he wasn't really looking for any excuses, but it, it, he didn't have any home life. He didn't have any kind of family. And he says that a couple of times thinking the, in the films, isn't he? He say, oh, cigarettes, you're gonna, he goes, no, I don't have any family, but I'll, I'll get some.

And

Reegs: really is

the only back story

we get. though, and I think

that is, if you're going to

criticize the movie at all, it's there is,

there's not a lot

in terms of, backstory

or anything to

fill it in. It's

Pete: it's interesting. I hadn't thought about it until you just mentioned it, but I think that it almost, I, like it that way because like you say, it's,

it's,

it's not unapologetic, but it's, it's like it's warts and all, and, it doesn't try and excuse the fact that he's a junkie.

The fact that he's, you know, he's on the wrong side of the tracks. The fact that he's violent and you know, and he's getting his comeuppance and everything, at no point does it try and. Paint a picture of like sympathy for the viewer that oh, he went through all this as a kid

Sidey: the whole movie

Pete: think it kind of works better

Reegs: stronger for it. Yeah. I agree. Yeah,

Sidey: just goes out of its way to fucking disorientate you and say this is fucking awful and all that other stuff doesn't matter. This is just,

Pete: I think it's done so brilliant because obviously, you know like touch words, like none of us here have been to prison before and especially in a place like that and it kind of all, the film almost, I think, tries to kind of portray that, especially that, that quick from, you know, getting knocked on his ass in the boxing, to then being arrested, to then being processed, to then sleeping next to a dead guy, and blah, blah, blah.

And, and because of everything else that's going on around it almost, like, gives you a sense of how disorientating and terrifying and fucking, like, horrendous it all is. Just, just through viewing it. I, I actually felt really kind of anxious. It was like, I I mean I've, I've watched some brutal stuff in my time.

This was like so fucking brutal and harrowing. For such a, for like the first 20, 25 minutes or whatever. I Thought, can I watch this all in one go? And then as it got more into like a bit of a rhythm and a storyline, I came back, but then it was only then when he, when he escaped the hospital that I was like, oh this is going to end fucking badly now.

Reegs: It is a real event to sit through this movie. It's not, You

know,

Dan: well we watched Nil by Mouth before and that again is like a harrowingly dark film with very little in the way of laughs or anything. And, and this had a similar feeling to me as far as, very different films, but that anxiety, that darkness, that real kind of Bleak outlook and you were just hoping he was going to survive and see the way through it.

But it was

Not pulling

Sidey: that's that's that's my takeaway from it as well. It's really good

Pete: Brilliant

Reegs: Cole is amazing

Sidey: Incredibly well made Everything, at the

set. everything's like

brilliant.

But it's fucking hard. Like I

don't mean that in a negative way because That's what it's supposed to be and it's very successful in doing it. It's just fucking hard work. it's oh, it's

brutal. Yeah.

Dan: It's

probably not one that the missus would have loved to watch alongside me. Although,

it's one of those films that you're pleased to have watched once and seen that kind of

Sidey: Well, I think.

now you know how it ends like You can

you'd be

able to watch it

again.

but it's,

Cris: Yeah, if you watch it the second time, it'll be like, yeah, okay,

Sidey: to be one that you go back to 10 times or

whatever, but you

can still enjoy

the

Dan: Years ago, I did read

Reegs: Yeah. Joe Cole is

Dan: so I was, I was kind of aware of the story and things, but

Sidey: soon as you know, it's a Thai prison story. You know, it's going

Reegs: Well, it's very rare, you know, if you've seen like, what is it? Midnight Express that

Pete: yeah, Yeah.

yeah,

Reegs: is that sort of

Dan: There

was another book I read on a similar theme, a guy called Warren Fellows, and his book was called The Damage Done and he did ten years in Bangkok prison for he's an Australian guy I think, and he went through with heroin, you know, he did a load of runs before they actually caught him, and then it was like, right, you're off to the big tiger here, you're off to, you know, The prison the Bangkok Hilton or whatever it was and again that book stayed with me You know like all those years later just think jeez that is just an absolute Nightmare story like cockroaches those prison conditions and the

Reegs: and not

Pete: on.

Dan: Not if they're laying eggs in your ears and starting, you know, all kinds of

Reegs: situations. Yeah,

Dan: Yeah, well, it's all death.

It all comes down to death and horrible and disease and all the rest of it. And yeah, I think the, the scenes within the prison with the other actor type, you know, convicts or whatever was just really made this film very unique in the sense that it was

Pete: Well, it's real,

Reegs: this one, the authenticity of it yeah, It's really

Dan: it was hard to, to shake that off.

And it wasn't. easy, enjoyable viewing. It was like, you know,

Pete: Great nomination,

Dan: so thanks very much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Cris: Oh, definitely,

Pete: too pretty for

Dan: You definitely, you, they would love you pretty boy though.

Reegs: love you, Chris.

Sidey: strong recommend.

Pete: Very strong.