Midweek Mention... Gods and Monsters

Gods and Monsters

Dan: that's the intro, isn't it? Um,

Sidey: no. It's not yet. It's the midweek.

Dan: What is the midweek

Sidey: gods and monsters.

Dan: Okay.

Sidey: Gods and monsters. Yep. Dan, question mark over whether you've ever seen this.

Dan: this? Yeah. Um, you

Sidey: then I described it to you and,

Dan: and I gave you blank looks. Um, yeah. Because, uh,

Sidey: Sir Ian McCallum to you. Night of the realm.

Cris: Yeah. Brendan Fraser, uh, Lynn Redgrave.

Sidey: Lolita Lolita. Dvi Davidovich. Yeah. Yeah. Um,

Dan: yeah. I thought I

Sidey: but really it's a, it's the main, the main dude is Ian and then Brendan as his sort of companion,

Dan: I'm afraid, um, I had not seen this one up to date with homework, et

Cris: cetera.

Dan: um, so I'm, I'm intrigued to hear all about it.

Sidey: I tell you a little bit about it? Tell me a little bit. Ian plays James Whale and then years

Dan: Years later.

Sidey: Brendan Fraser played the whale, won the Oscar for, you know, the

Cris: Yes.

Dan: I knew there's a connection,

Sidey: you know, isn't it incredible? Um, and he's the author of Frank N. Stein, and this is him, obviously in his later years. But this is 1998. Yeah. So, um, he's not that old here.

Dan: here. Nope.

Cris: he still looks old.

Sidey: he's got gray hair,

Cris: I didn't want to, I didn't wanna say it to you this morning, but honestly, there was a couple of times in the film when I looked at him and I was thinking he looks a bit like queeny,

Sidey: the side, the sort like silver, fox gray. Just the

Cris: fox, the, the kind of smile all the time. And you know, that soft smile is quite funny. Yeah.

Sidey: Um, and here's a homosexual gentleman.

Dan: Yeah.

Cris: And he directed the first two Frankenstein movies.

Dan: So is this like a true story? He really did his

Cris: fictionalized version of his last days. This is a real human that existed.

Sidey: Yeah.

Dan: okay. So he really did direct Frankenstein.

Cris: Yes. Yeah. The, the James Whale, not

Dan: and set in like the 19. Wow.

Sidey: yes, so 1950s. But it then, as he's thinking, and because this is like end of days, his health is like seriously deteriorating and he's, he's having flashbacks to like scenes where he's directing the movie or during the war, or, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. Different points in his life. And

Cris: Or when he's a child and his father kind of who,

Dan: who's playing him in those younger days then? No

Sidey: one that you'd recognize? Yeah, I would.

Cris: I didn't know

Sidey: either. People though, people, it's real,

Dan: okay. They haven't kind of

Sidey: AI

Cris: and the, the young hy is very handsome,

Sidey: say. Yeah, he's, he's like, he remembers himself doing sort of artistic pursuits and his family like. What the fuck are you doing? Like, you're gonna go to work

Cris: go work in the factory And yeah.

Dan: Right. They're working class

Sidey: uh, yeah, and you know, back then there was no kind of like, oh, maybe he's like, you

Cris: no aspirations. Oh, I want him to do better than me. No, I

Sidey: but also he's gay as well, so they're, they're not gonna go, oh, you know, we've gotta look after I go, you know, no. Just like, no, this is the path for you. You're gonna do like man stuff. You're gonna be a man, you're gonna do man stuff in a factory. Um, so he's, um, the sort of first.

Dan: sorry, I'm just,

Cris: no, no, it's all right. You're fluxing. We

Sidey: podcasting blind. Yeah. Um, there's a sort of memorable scene right, sort of near the start as he's being interviewed by this guy who is super camp. Oh, yes. This journalist guy comes round and, um, so there's a lady in it who, um, plays his sort of housemaid and she kind of steals the movie with, so she's always disapproving of him and she

Cris: you can see, like, you know, when you have, like, you always see the films in that I've never had servants, but, and you probably have because you, you know,

Dan: back in the day when I had a little more, um, money around the house. Yeah. But of

Cris: But you know, when there's always the, the servant that has been with the, with the own, with a, you know, whatever,

Sidey: the family

Dan: Yeah.

Cris: family, with a family for too long and they, and he says it in the film, he's like, she's been in my service for so long. She actually thinks she's married to me.

Sidey: Yeah. She's forgotten that the, the what the role should be. And she's clearly, I like not to say that she's like flat out homophobic, but she is negative about homosexuality. Right. And she calls it, she says, she says to like Brenda Fraser about buggering men and stuff. He likes to bug her. He's a bugger.

Dan: Um,

Sidey: Um, so this first guy, he sits down to interview him, doesn't he? And, um. He could tell. Well, like straight away, just really bored with like another guy coming to talk to him and he says, listen, let's make this a bit more fun for me. I don't care about you, but for me, this needs to be more interesting. So I will answer any question you ask me truthfully. But you have to remove an item of clothing. It's like strip journalism. Wow. Yeah.

Cris: Why? He's like, he's like a game of poker, but

Dan: he's gotta try and get the naked truth.

Sidey: Yeah. And he, the guy does get down to his pants, doesn't he?

Cris: Yeah. Like proper, just in his like tidy whitey.

Sidey: wise. Yeah. Yeah.

Cris: Um, and he asks him like the same, it's quite a generic question, and I guess he does get a bit annoyed because the guy is always interested in just about the Frankenstein and about the two movies

Sidey: if he's never done anything else in

Cris: and he, he, he doesn't ask him about how he was in, like how he started. What is the

Dan: did The Invisible Man, um,

Cris: he does say it. I will, my favorite is the Invisible man. But you wouldn't want to ask about that because he's not a Frankenstein film or whatever.

Sidey: but, but does

Cris: fake does he fake that heart attack or is he Actually, he actually, I

Sidey: think it was real. Yeah. Yeah. So he, it was a stroke, I think. Yeah. I think he starts, starts to basically have a series of strokes and his health is like, clearly, like on the, on the wane. Um, and it really freaks this guy out and um, like it's pretty full on, isn't it?

Cris: Yeah. Yeah. Well, he, he passes out, the woman comes running, and then I think the next scene is he's already in hospital. Yeah, yeah. obviously we don't, we don't see that guy until later on in the film. But he's there like in his pants, just, are you okay? And this, the maid is kind of looking after whale and the guy's just there, and then she kind of looks at him like,

Dan: well, what's happened there?

Cris: your pants?

Sidey: He does have a very nice gaff. Yes. Um,

Cris: And a very nice garden

Sidey: of that, he has a nice garden. And because he has a nice garden, he needs a gardener to tend to it. And that is where, um, Boone Boone, Brendan Fraser's character, uh, turns up. He, uh, whale clocks him a couple times. Like, Hmm.

Cris: Yeah, it is. He licks licking his lips. But it's also the, at the beginning of the film on the first day of Boone, it's a really, I thought it was really good scene where you see how Boone lives. And honestly trailer park, like trailer trash. I don't even know if he has electricity. It just looks like

Sidey: like they're in a bar. 'cause they, they, they start this relationship purely like a friendship base. And you can tell he, he would've probably said a lot of derogatory things about gay people and whatever until he meets whale and starts to come. And then there's a scene where they're in, in this. Bar diner thing with his pals or rednecks, you know, like fairly just ignorant. Yeah. You know, and the TV that they watch, the Brighter Frank sign on is honestly

Dan: the

Cris: TV I've ever seen in my life. It's

Sidey: like, it's more machined than screen. Like there's, there's just like all this,

Cris: all the, the box is more Ah, yeah. It's amazing. The

Sidey: is, I don't know, it's like, looks like a dozen, you know, it's like tiny and watching that and it, and it's, um. His friends are saying stuff about like homos and stuff like that, and he's like, look, you know, you can start to see a change in him after he is met. Well, yeah. He's like, you really don't have to say words like that, you know? And so he's come around, but their initial reaction is that when he invites him in, doesn't he? And then it's first sort of thing to get to know him is, I want to paint you. Yeah. And then.

Cris: he's

Sidey: He's like, what do you mean? Um, he's like, just, you know, just paint. You just help me, help us to relax, to get to know each other a bit of a thing. And then he looks at a painting he's got next to him. It's just him bullet naked fucking dick out. He's like,

Cris: He's like, well, you wanna paint me like that?

Sidey: Not like that. It's like, no. Um, I just, I get he, I think they compromise on, he says, I'll just paint your head. Yeah, I'll just do like a face portrait type thing. But when they does sit down to do it, he says, well, you really need to take your top off. He's like, what?

Dan: And um, and Brendan is, I mean, this film is like 19 98, 8 ish, so he's

Sidey: star at this point. 'cause this is around the like probably in between the Mummy and the Mummy too.

Dan: He's, look, when

Cris: him he, I really like a handsome man.

Sidey: Mm Oh yeah. He

Cris: I didn't realize, obviously I was too young at the

Sidey: but No, he was

Cris: back now, he's

Sidey: proper movie star. Looks like he's b and he is handsome. Yeah.

Dan: He, he was, uh, you know, an,

Cris: great lighting

Dan: a leading man looks, he's always

Cris: nice natural light in the film. It's always daytime when e every action happens in the daytime.

Sidey: So he's at pains to point out to, well, that he's a straight man and there's not nothing like that is gonna happen between them. Plus it's like a, there is like a significant age difference.

Cris: And to be, this is one, one of them that he keeps repeating. Oh. I wouldn't be, he wouldn't be interested. I wouldn't be interested. Don't be daft, man. I wouldn't be, I wouldn't do that. Okay. Well, I'm homosexual, but you know, I'm, I'm nowhere near, you know, he just kind of always says that to be like, I'm not interested. I'm, this is just strictly professional. I just want to draw you Yeah. And, and create the friendship or whatever.

Sidey: Yeah. Well, is in spite of this, he is still really struggling. He's depressed. He's, um, his health is waning. He's thinking about, you know, he can't work anymore. He, he's like worried about his looks.

Cris: Yeah.

Sidey: Just basically every, yeah. And he's, he's having flashbacks to like the good times and that they're not gonna come round anymore. And he does contemplate ending it all.

Dan: Oh, see, he's, he's,

Sidey: it's really

Dan: getting depressed and,

Sidey: Yeah. Big time.

Dan: Yeah.

Cris: he also, there's a couple of times where they have the interaction. He's like, ah, so do you miss it? Oh no, I don't miss it. And then he's like, no, I don't miss it. And being assertive. And then he kind of goes, making movies is the best thing in life. So you kind of go initially, he goes, nah, I don't miss it. And then it's like, you actually do mate, but you don't want to say it. Uh, and he does get invited to, um. It's

Sidey: a party hosted by party. Is it Princess Margaret? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then Boris Karloff is there, like his old stars, but that really kind of just makes him feel worse. Yeah. Um,

Cris: Because that's when he says that all the monsters are here. Yeah. To, and he, and he gets the invite from Princess Margaret and there's all these movie stars, all the. People in Hollywood. And he goes, uh, his companion is his gardener and he is the only guy there with a t-shirt. Everyone's in a shirt, tie hat, you know, like proper nice Hollywood gathering. Yeah.

Sidey: It's a black tie

Cris: And he's like, oh yeah, uh, I, this is my gardener. And he, he's like, oh, he doesn't really meet, uh, princess uh, princesses. He only use meets queens. He's more used to meeting Queens.

Sidey: wonder what he means.

Cris: Yeah. And it's like you can see the George Guy and the princess kind of just

Sidey: yeah. They, this, they used to a bit more formality, but he is like, nah, fuck

Cris: He just

Dan: He, he's too old and too depressed to give a shit about anything. Yeah.

Cris: Then he meets his old cast and we get to see the camp guy again, the one that was in his pants

Dan: Right.

Cris: Because he's like, I even put you on the list. I'm now assistant to George, whatever. And he just looks at him, he's incredulous. He's like, what is going on here? Um, and that's when he, they go home and it starts raining.

Sidey: rainstorm. Yeah. They get caught in the rain. Um, and then so Boone, he is stuck without any. Dry

Dan: through in his t-shirt. God, we've all been there, haven't we?

Sidey: Uh, whale says to him, like, I think he put, he says, I'll sort you out, but I think he just has a towel on.

Cris: Well, yeah, he's, I can't, I'll give you some clothes. And he, while Bunes had in the shower, whale just gets dressed up three piece suit like you would think he's going out, but he is just gonna sit on the sofa. And when, uh, Boone comes down, he's like, how about those clothes? You said you're gonna. And he just kind of looks at it and he is, oh yeah, you're in your towel. It's just pretty much that's what he wanted to see basically. And he kind of,

Sidey: well, he goes to sketch him, doesn't

Cris: he? Yeah, but they, they, he kind of, not coerces him, but he kind of just chats to him. They, they both share truths because in until then he thought that Boone was a, a marine. Like he actually fought in Korea.

Sidey: He has the tattoos, isn't he?

Cris: Yeah. But it turns out that Boone only went and did the training camp and never went. Never went anywhere.

Sidey: saw any

Cris: Yeah. No, no. Never saw anything. And he just said, look, you assumed everything I just told you I was a Marine, and you just assumed everything else. And then, because they tell all these truths about everything, and he, uh, whale tells him about his love in the war, the guy that was hanged or something like that. And, um, he kind of makes him, okay, well stay here and I'll draw you. And he puts the, that thing, the, the,

Sidey: well, first of all, he,

Dan: like a

Sidey: um, first of all, he does it in the towel. Um, and then he. He can't do it. And he shows Boone, he like,

Dan: he can't

Sidey: I, I've actually lost it now. I can't even fucking draw. So to like motivate him, Boone drops his towel. Yeah. Shows him his dick, like his boao.

Dan: do we all see that? No.

Sidey: sadly not. It's a

Cris: in the, in the window. But you can't, you can't really know

Sidey: let down. Um, and yeah. Then he says, oh, actually let's make it more, you know, arty for arty. So they, he wears a World War I gas mask.

Cris: The, the one with a, with a hose

Dan: Yeah. White.

Sidey: By dead man shoes style.

Dan: Spooky. Um, well, he's got that on only

Sidey: that, but he crosses a fucking line and tries to make a sexual advance. I believe he is. He tries to kiss him.

Dan: Still got a little,

Sidey: he's still got the horn

Dan: a bit horny.

Sidey: Um,

Dan: How, how old is he here in this

Sidey: I say he's

Dan: seventies

Cris: He looks, yeah, he looks like in his seventies. Yeah,

Sidey: but so he does that and, um, Boone's like really fucking enraged about it, fights him off and tells him like, you know, you're out of order. And, uh, whale says, I actually only did that in the hope that you would kill me. Yeah.

Dan: Oh, bloody hell.

Cris: He's like, what do you want? What do you want for me? Leave me alone. He's like, I just want you to kill me. And it's

Dan: just, I, I was just looking. He actually died 67 years old,

Sidey: He

Dan: he definitely wouldn't have been in his seventies.

Cris: Right. Well, anyway, that, yeah. And uh, they kind of make up in a way.

Sidey: Yeah. He stays there. He sleeps downstairs. He sleeps so far. Wells upstairs in the morning though. Um, what's her name? The, the, the housekeeper? Hannah. Hannah. Is it Hannah? Yeah. Yeah, Hannah.

Cris: Yeah. Hannah.

Sidey: Hannah. Um, she like raises the line 'cause she can't find him. Um, so they have a look around and unfortunately he has drowned himself.

Cris: Yeah. He, they find him in the

Sidey: pool. He's in a swimming pool, sad

Cris: there is a scene halfway through the film where he says that he, whale always says that if you want to go for a swim, feel free. I don't really swim, so I don't really use it.

Dan: The

Cris: The pool is.

Dan: Uh,

Cris: You know, decoration here, I don't really use it. And full circle. Do they find him? And because the one of his mates from the party was gonna come for breakfast, Hannah tells Boone, you need to get outta here. We don't want any questions. Uh, you were. You know, why did you sleep over? You're only the gardener. There's gonna be, you know, questions asked and we don't want another scandal. Yeah, you need to leave. And then he's like, well, how are you gonna explain, dragging him outta the pool? And he's like, I'll just put him back. It's okay.

Dan: Wow.

Cris: And they just push him back. He's like, oh, sorry Mr. Jimmy. Uh, I'm sure you don't mind. Just push him back in the water and you can just kind of see him there. And I think they do a, a bit of a switcheroo where he. Comes back blonde and he kind of starts laughing in the pool or smiling at, at the end where it's kind of like he's gone back in time where he was young and happy.

Sidey: Yeah. They wanted to avoid the scandal of having Boone there. Yeah. Um, so he does a run, but there wasn't no, it is a clear suicide. Uh, and then flash forward to 10 years down the line. Yeah. Really. Right.

Dan: Oh, really? Right.

Sidey: Um, Boone Clayton Boone watching, um, bride of Frankenstein with his now son. Right

Cris: Right.

Sidey: and telling him all these stories about

Dan: modern television.

Sidey: Oh yeah. He is got full plasma set up now.

Cris: No, it's not. It's, it's still black and white. But,

Sidey: um.

Dan: I'm

Sidey: Telling him, spinning these yarns about James Whale, that he knew him and his son's like, yeah, bullshit. No fucking way. Um, and he brings out a sketch, um, I think it's the Bride of Frankenstein,

Cris: and he is the Frankenstein

Sidey: And it says, um, to Clayton, my friend, and he's like, there you go, fuck face. What do you think of that? Uh, doesn't quite it worded it, something like that. Anyway, um, and then he is, later on, he is walking down the street and he starts mimicking, like walking

Cris: Yeah. The Frankenstein in the rain. Yeah. Is he, he misses, he is like, oh, you need to take the, uh, rubbish before the rain starts or the storm starts and as he goes, because this is a recreation of when they left the party, uh, whale had a convertible car, and when they put the rooftop down, he just, it's only water. We'll be fine. It's only whatever. So, so again, another full circle moment.

Sidey: Finney.

Dan: Okay.

Cris: the end. Yeah.

Dan: Interesting. Oh, well, I'm, um, I'm,

Sidey: I think you'd enjoy it.

Dan: I'm disappointed I missed this one actually. Yeah. It's a slow burn. Okay. But I,

Cris: not, it's not a, it's not an action.

Sidey: it's now hour 40,

Dan: Yeah. Right. It's,

Sidey: a long slow burn. It,

Cris: The costumes are really good.

Sidey: It looks great. It's, um, yeah, it's, it is a character

Dan: Atmospheric. You said it was very light.

Cris: Yeah, it's a nice lighting of always flowers and gardens. And obviously you get Brendan Fraser quite a few times without it. Top on.

Sidey: Yeah, that's

Dan: but I, I do, well, I do enjoy, um, you know, watching these films about people's lives physically, those that have had interest in lives and, and. True stories. And when they build on those final days, I know that obviously they don't, there's an artistic

Cris: Yeah, it, it is not exactly how it

Dan: happened. Um, but it's, um, there, you know, there's two or three actors in there that I've, I really like, so, um, yeah, it sounds

Sidey: it was, it was not a hit of the box office. I have to tell you.

Dan: It doesn't sound like it would be though. You know,

Sidey: but it costs 10 million and you're thinking, okay, like it looks great and stuff, but

Dan: did it make anything

Sidey: they need to spend 10 million

Cris: and because there's no, there's no car, there's only a one car scene. They're not, there's only on one location and then to be fed. That's second garden where

Sidey: it's also, uh, BBC, were involved in this, in, at the start. Yeah. So BBC films, um, so no only made about six and a half million back, unfortunately. So it, it wasn't a big hit in that sense, but I think it was well received by, certainly by critics and also by

Dan: the l lgbtq

Sidey: the q plus audience, because it does show. Like a positive relationship between a gay man and a heterosexual man, and probably the heterosexual man who's someone who would've been certainly ignorant and probably would've said bigoted remarks. And you can see his like. Transformational or see that he just learns. It changes a little bit. He learns to be more accepting. He stands up for, um, him in the bar scene and things like that. So, um, it's, it's good like that. And quite often gay people end up being like the villains or fucking like serial killers or monsters in these films. Um, so it was good to have a kind of sympathetic character, um, portrayed in that way.

Dan: Yeah. Nice. Uh, it is definitely something that I think, um, I could sit down and, and watch. As I say, I enjoy those kind of biography films or autobiography films and having, um, and I didn't know a lot about this guy, but, um, this James, well, obviously I'd heard of. The bride of Frankenstein and um, and Frankenstein. But I wonder how he'd used his, um, or how the film portrays that he uses war experiences and things in his directing and Yeah. Whether that

Cris: He does a few, he leaves a few times. He's like, oh, did you laugh at the film? He is like, well, no, he lies because his mates laughed. And uh, he's like, well, no. He's like, well, you should, because he's like, it's, it's a, it's a, it's, it's a tragedy and it's a dark,

Dan: comy tragedy.

Cris: dark film. I have to make it laugh when it's something about death and things like that. So you have. A little bit of that, but it's also more about the guy's life and pretty much about him. I think it's more about him being gay in the fifties. Yeah. And earlier than

Sidey: less, less acceptance.

Cris: it was, I mean, in, in the nineties, late nineties, it wasn't necessarily free for all. Uh, but imagine 50 years before that. So

Dan: certainly

Sidey: watching it now in, in the times of the culture wars, you know, I don't think it would be any more, you know, you'd get a lot of more people just feeling like they could just. Say homo, like, you know, they're doing the film. So it's um, it's still quite topical. Still very topical in fact. But I think even though, you know, like we spoiled the story for you in that sense, I still think you get a kick outta watching it.

Dan: Well, I, I see that it was released at, at Sundance and, um. It's interesting you mentioned, we mentioned this like loads of weeks and loads of different films, the budget being so much, and the box office bringing in so much. So this on the face of it, lost three and a half million, um, through the budget. The, you know, I always wonder like obviously prime Netflix, like cinema,

Sidey: uh, I think they make their money back eventually. It just takes a hell of a long

Dan: it just takes a a lot longer. But um, yeah, you, you think that. That's not a,

Sidey: a, if

Dan: if it's the only reason you make films is to make money.

Sidey: I was just about to say, it's good that people still, not still, but people take a chance at movies like this, even though. You know, it's not, this is not gonna be a billion dollar movie, do you know what I mean? Or a hundred. That's it. Um, but people are still willing to take a risk on it and make it so that's good. And then I think it maybe, I dunno, maybe it doesn't happen less and less, but I feel like it happens less and less. Maybe. I just don't

Dan: no, they, they seem to, you know, play safer. I mean, but I, I guess most films don't actually make, you know, lots of money or anything. But, um, it's nice that actors, um, of this note are still interested in projects like this. 'cause I guess it's. Those and the directors, the artistic types that are the ones that are speaking to the Monument men saying, look, we need to make this film. We need, they may have to say, right, you've gotta make Avengers three after this. But, um, it, it's, um,

Sidey: it's a bargaining chip.

Dan: they get this film made so interesting.

Sidey: Strong, recommend.

Cris: Yeah. Strong. Strong. I liked it to be fair. Yep. Okay.