The subject of todays Top 5 is one of the great American actors; his collaborations with Martin Scorsese alone have created some of the most celebrated moments and characters in film history. A firm favourite of all of the Bad Dads, it's time we sat down to talk about Robert De Niro.
2016's MOONLIGHT directed by Barry Jenkins and based on Tarell Alvin McCraney's unpublished semi-autobiographical play "In Moonlight Black Boys Look Blue" is this weeks main feature. An indie drama charting the life of Chiron, a poor black drug dealer in Florida, this movie was the first LGBTQ film and the first film with an all-black cast to win the Academy Award for Best Picture. Discussing violence, addiction, sexuality, masculinity, crime and poverty amongst other heavyweight themes, this beautifully crafted movie has a distinctive aesthetic and powerful performances at its core.
Matt Groening has already experienced the pressure of trying to follow up a hit TV series with FUTURAMA, which followed on from THE SIMPSONS (and we once reviewed, rather pitifully if I'm honest), the question is, can he do it again? DISENCHANTMENT is a Netflix exclusive sitcom set in a medieval fantasy world. Using Groening's recognisable and very much established cartoon art style and a number of the talented voice cast he has worked with on both his previous shows this show had a better chance than most of capturing the Bad Dads hearts. Especially as one of the Dads already considers themselves a fan.
We love to hear from our listeners! By which I mean we tolerate it. Try us on twitter @dads_film, on Facebook Bad Dads Film Review or on our website baddadsfilm.com.
Until next time, we remain...
Reegs: Welcome to bad. Dad's film review their little dad based corner of the internet devoted to watching films and kids' TV. It's a gloriously sunny Sunday evening in the man cave. We've got all the regular cool customers with Sid Dan Peter Andre plus myself, rigs to regale you with raucous has reviews from the four of us ridiculous rec centers.
You guys may remember last week, I'd started to delve into society's history to find out a few facts about the mysterious man himself and a very strange text message from the private detective I hired. He says that Sidey has a tattoo of his face on his face. Is this is this true
Sidey: I couldn't possibly confirm or deny
Dan: a few things.
Reegs: He also says he liked to have sex in supermarket car parks,
Sidey: Greenville recycling center is a good place.
Reegs: and you
want somehow ended up in a brawl with a donkey in the Falklands Tell us about that
I don't want to relive it. I think there are some Polaroids It's not going to be out there Okay.
Reegs: So that's all I've got this week.
but I I feel, I know the man a little
Dan: It doesn't confirm nor deny my feelings towards him.
It's it's just the mystery goes.
Pete: I knew all of those things
Reegs: DJ Oh right Well we'll have to delve
Pete: what attracted me to being friends society in the first place.
Dan: You've got the Polaroids.
Reegs: Anybody seen anything interesting this week?
Sidey: Yep have you said We are recording two nights earlier than we normally would.
So it's bred to really squeeze everything, but there's a season to start of Ragnar rock. I don't know if you ever saw of season one. of
Reegs: I didn't watch it
Sidey: a Norwegian, I don't know exactly what age group you'd say it's pitched out, but it's a,
it's a Norwegian thing where the kid is like the chosen one and he's, he's going to become Thor.
But it's a slow build
Sidey: that yeah,
Reegs: like a superhero
Sidey: and then the,
bad family that so that he's part of the gods. And then the other family are the giants and they have this
mythology that they fight each other, whatever the mum and the daughter of the bad family
hell. So hot. So
came up on my Netflix thing, I think.
And it is like, it's something to watch, you know? Okay.
Sidey: Well, the first season I watched dubbed and I thought, man, that would have been so much better if I w you
know if it had been. And then I realized I just had the wrong fucking zag
I wanna say the
season two I've been watching subtitled it's
Pete: more of a sort of a superhero
But is it like part of a DC or Marvel lead type world or is it just like
Norse mythology? Okay. I
Reegs: and the Norwegians doing it themselves?
Pete: Vikings, dog Vikings.
Sidey: I think it's more slightly younger age pitched out, but it's good.
Reegs: Have You seen anything interesting Peter
Pete: No. Other than more sort of more oversight of Cindy show, she's all over Bates motel. She's finished it now. She's absolutely binge-watched it and I've caught a lot of it and it did actually look quite interesting, sort of
quite disturbing and you know, psychological and yeah, entertaining.
Some good acting performances in it, but I
missed the first two, three seasons. So
call it the arse end of it, but it looked all right.
Dan: Yeah. And just the champions league final for me, that was it. I just watched that, that show last night,
Reegs: I saw a video this week. It had a fairly, I would say erudite fellow talking about job opportunities in
Did anybody else see this video?
I'm being I'm being
It was you, Peter. Andre Wasn't it in a little corporatey type video for the,
Pete: it was, it's a it's out there. It's I've not watched it myself, but I've
Reegs: Fuck do you haven't watched. it yourself by not,
Pete: I'm not one of these egomaniacs that likes to go back and watch my own stuff.
And also I'm horribly ashamed and appalled
Reegs: it. He'd watch it. When you did watch a video you'd watch a video of yourself.
Pete: a Little bit of context for that. I was asked
minutes before. So at 20 to 10, I was asked by my my line manager,
I was asked by my line manager and bearing in mind, I'm still on probation at work.
I was asked, D have you got anything on at 10? And I said, no. And she said, would you mind
recording a promotional video for the project that we're working on? Bearing in mind, I'd gone into work that day, just in like a jumper and hadn't had a shave. And I was
then going to
be thrust in front of a camera. And I felt like, I couldn't say no.
Sidey: Anyone who ever says, have you got anything on the X time? The answer is yes.
I'm very busy.
Pete: That was a rookie error on my part because now
Reegs: well I'll spare you cause I'll put it this way. Slamming salmon. Wasn't the worst thing
I've watched this. I thought you were very good. I thought
you were erudite and yeah,
it was I think
Pete: I I've been told that I had quite a few Tony Blair risk mannerisms, like with,
with my hands.
Yeah yeah. I don't know where that came from. I've never done that. Totally Ad-libs I might start doing that. I'm doing it now. As I'm talking,
I'm going to do that a lot. I feel like it makes me look like I know what I'm talking about a little bit more,
Reegs: it it it was good.
I thought, you know, you talked convincingly and
about job opportunities. And I, thought, you know, you seem to open and endearing and
I just know what a massive cunt you are.
real life And
then you were
none of it was from the heart. It was an autocue that I'd had.
Reegs: good. Very good.
Sidey: Is that available on the world wide web?
Reegs: It is states of Jersey. Something
Pete: It might be on the government website.
We'll put a tweet it
we'll tweet it later
Reegs: acting debut from one of the bad
Pete: Yeah. I've I've recently employed a manager. Who's going gonna take care of the, my next gigs and stuff.
So you guys have got to start paying me royalties for this, apparently.
Reegs: Oh I'm in I'm in I'm convinced I'm riding Pete
Pete: It just keep me plied with cheese.
Dan: So we'll pay you in cheese
Sidey: We do
have cheese We do cheese now?
Reegs: if we got a cheese jingle.
Pete: I think so.
Sidey: Yeah. I've supplied us with some cheese this week, we've got a fairly traditional selection. We've got a rock for, is it? Still turn three
a cheddar, which I think has a funky name, but it's cheddar. It's a strong one.
Reegs: what's the funky
name I don't.
Dan: that's the old Amsterdam.
Reegs: Is that what it's called? The old Amsterdam
Sidey: We're doing a top five this week, but we also had a top five last week
Dan: that, and the wheat
We've had a lot of them
was something to do with things, That's right.
We had a very inventive suggestion from mov on Twitter who suggested the little micro machine
Toys that they use in home alone
Pete: collections of five Yeah,
Reegs: To, to screw over Peshy And I really liked this one and I am asking listeners now as a campaign to, to try and cram in from this week onwards in every top five home alone in their
Reegs: he really hates it.
I really like us to try and troll between the three of us, probably me Dan and Pete. We could probably Ram it in there, but the listeners
this week I think
Reegs: because that was just such a good use of it. I want to see it used in that brilliant way. Just
to troll society please So
do help us out
But this week
it's top five
DeNiro. The You pick this
Reegs: try to think of the home
alone reference that I could get with dinero,
but it was virtually impossible and we didn't have a lot
Pete: The closest you get is is Peshy obviously, but yeah, so I, I chose this top five. Only because I remember listening to the early pods where you did a couple of top five of particular
people. You did an 91 and You did a Scorsese film. on I think
Reegs: did Eastwood as well. I enjoyed that one, that was good one.
Pete: And so I wanted to sort of go back to something like that.
And then I just thought like, in my lifetime w which actor has, kind of, I dunno,
know iconic films like towering performances and and DeNiro was, was right near the top of that list. So I just thought he'd be and he's obviously got a very long unsuccessful film.
Dan: man, isn't he,
He really is. I mean, how many fucking performances and films he's been in, particularly when I was growing up that just kind of defined the whole culture of where the films that I was watching, like the godfather films, you know, that was it. That was your, your mafia film. You know, if he did a gangster film, the good fella that was a culture defining or decade defining film of that genre,
Pete: I think for a spell, maybe not necessarily your mainstream stuff, but your, you know,
I don't know the words to describe it, cause it wasn't sort of cult films necessarily either, but it was if you wanted, if you had a big film and it was going to be released and it was going to be like, you know, a edgy you
know, it it would have.
I guess like a, not necessarily universal appeal, but like a real sort of like following the
the best American actor of his generation and probably a few more guaranteed bums on seats, because you knew there was an actor's performance in and the way that he prepares, I think that was the thing that you get with DeNiro is the preparation with DeNiro.
You know, that he was, he lived, the character is second to none would know everything about them. And the, you know, when you go to a raging bull and he's lost weight, he's gained weight, he's done all this for films over and over and over again, method acting, but really live in the park. I mean,
Reegs: Freeman said an interesting thing this week.
Did anybody see this? He said, method acting is just total bullshit. Just be an actor. And you've said similar things in the past about Daniel Day Lewis.
Sidey: Yeah. It's more that people just go on about the way that they done it. And you think who cares I want to see the fucking film So
Dan: They go on about it.
People generally like they'll say, oh, you know, Donald J.
Lewis And he stayed in character the whole time. He Gives a fuck. Like what's the thing on the tele look like,
is it good,
Reegs: know I don't, for me, if you get great performances out of somebody doing that, sometimes you get really stupid shit. Like Jared Leto being the joker and like sending his
cast mates fucking stupid shit.
And so that obviously was just rubbish and he ended up giving a rubbish performance, but obviously it works as well because de Niro is pretty method.
actually, if you ever seen him in interview, he's not as, an especially charismatic
Pete: that tends to be the, sort of like a theme with a lot of these people.
don't know if he's universally loved in this room, but Dustin Hoffman's quite, of I mean, he's a very awkward, strange individual in interviews and stuff, but he becomes
the the, like the characters
Reegs: power of deniera cause like
on screen he's just, you can't take your eyes off.
He's just like,
and he's plays such a, not aggressive, but people who are very country like manifest destiny,
Dan: w well, we think we think of that, but some of the film roles that he's taken, I felt that were in films that I didn't think were very good and very strong.
And there was a real period of his career that I just thought fucking know what's happened to you today. Well,
Reegs: comedy DeNiro You talking about he,
Dan: get COVID. It's not that he can't do comedy because he has got good comic timing. And one of the films that we'll probably mention the are mentioned anyway, had that kind of
Reegs: Well I
Dan: Well, the intern, did you see that the intern is a fairly new film? And he went to play an intern in a company as a, he's a retired guy that decided he wanted to do something else other than just sit at home. So he went to do an internship at this company that. He was actually it turns out he used to live in or work in that building where this now is a, a younger stop kind of going on and what he could bring to it from an older kind of perspective with all these younger kids.
But it was a lighthearted comedy. It wasn't a slapstick
Reegs: I haven't seen a lot of his modern work. I have to say. I don't know what the last DeNiro,
probably joker was
probably the last film I saw him.
Pete: Yeah I haven't seen much of his
recent stuff. There was a spell for me. I mean, I alluded to it in the, in the midweek mention about that a certain type of humor, like anything with meat
the at the beginning,
Reegs: I actually liked meet the
Reegs: it's comedy work I liked
all of that. And, for me watching that, it was, it was, it was really horrible for me to watch Robert dinero in in those films.
Yeah. There was, they, they
weren't as bad as as meet the parents and the Fockers and all that sort of stuff.
Reegs: Meet the parents was good. I can't meet the Fockers a different one.
Sidey: That's when
they meet the in-laws
and they meet the little focuses with the kids Yeah.
I liked the
first one too
Pete: all the humor that you can see coming a mile off like, oh, there's there's the ashes of my mother on the thing.
Make sure nobody touches that. Like you immediately know something's going to happen with that and it's bollocks,
It's like when professional football go and play in like China or
U S or whatever.
And like, they probably still could do a turn in, in
premier Paula leaguer
or whatever, but they're just cash it. Like they're just coining it, They've done their hard yards and stuff. And now they're just going like
Dan: It certainly felt like that to me actually was some of the film
Reegs: we've got a really Good example of that A great example of hide and seek anybody seen this It's a It's a sort of 20 mid 2010s, I think horror movie Deniros wife commits suicide. So the dad has to raise his daughter Dakota fanning the annoying
war of the worlds. And obviously because he's a man, he can't raise a child and something, or someone is terrorizing the young girl and she says, it's this imaginary friend, Charlie.
if you're a fan of
horror movies, you obviously know better than that. It's got a really preposterous and lazy twist, which I'm going to spoil for you right now. Deniros got associated what's it called? Disassociative identity disorder and Charlie that evil imaginary friend isn't imaginary at all. It's DeNiro.
Absolutely awful. I cannot, you know, just it's the pure example of what you were talking about, phoning in a performance.
awful just to watch this great actor,
Pete: Yeah Let's not talk about those films.
Let's talk about the good
Dan: Well he started in like the late mid sixties, late sixties acting, I mean or getting
Sidey: I got an early one for you then near the beginning which is, mean streets He plays Johnny boy. And really it is a good movie, but the most of the movie is is more Harvey Kai tells thing it's
really good there where the camera's strapped him when he's drunk. And the opening monologue But
Reegs: that the first time that had been done because it's
Sidey: it's the
I don't know if it's
actually the first time, but it's definitely one of the most sort of famous, versions of this was Scorsese's their
first partnership Yeah. I remember the scene in the pool hallway swinging is just this sort of out of control, sort of bad boy, and it sort of hints at the sort of partnership of what's to come, but you don't get the full on brilliance to narrow just yet, but it's still, it's still a cool movie and the soundtrack is really good as
most Scorsese movies.
Reegs: Yeah. W We should have done this in some kind of chronological order.
Sidey: that started at the beginning.
Reegs: What's the next one? Do you know, like chronologically, I was going to go with Yeah. Wow. Waterfall having
Dan: They say it's the best
Reegs: doing it
Dan: and yeah, it's hard to think of a better one.
Pete: is this the first sort of. So I haven't seen mean streets. I didn't see. So I haven't seen a lot of recent and arrow and I didn't see much a very early DeNiro I was kind of like, you know, godfather part two onwards
to up till. I can probably tell you yeah, so, it was sort of just getting into the two thousands, but yeah, this, this film, this performance in particular, like you say two, but so you're basically taking one of the most iconic characters in cinematic history, and you've now got go and deliver the backstory and, you know, and do it in such a way that going to stand up with, with Marlon Brando
that first film, and and then achieving it.
and in some, in in a lot of circles to be
have surpassed, it is fucking phenomenal.
Reegs: would say so I think that's pretty much universally accepted now, isn't it? That it is better than the original, it's the example,
early sort of, reception wasn't wasn't as favorable because I think so many people were so blown away by the first film that nothing was ever going to stand up to it, but.
I think as a couple of years when by and like, you know, people went back and
Dan: sometimes it's like that
Pete: Yeah Yeah.
Dan: just needs time to settle down and people to just have a little bit of time and space away from the hype of films and the expectation, just to see how they look in in a year or two's time when other films have been out and other films have kind of got the attention.
And then you look back at something like God, five or two, and you think fucking hell, I'd watch it again tomorrow. You know, it's just that
Pete: Yeah. I mentioned before we started like towering performances and this is,
one of those
Dan: Well, I've got one. I don't know that it's in chronological order, but a bit it's kind of close to it.
the deer hunter
Sidey: I think there's some other stuff in between, but this is the next one I have in my list So that was, we've gone from 74 to 78?
Dan: deer hunter was that film with the steelworkers heading over to, to Vietnam and. Then the, the character arc, really of those people in the, and the way that they went about and lived their life after coming back from such a
Reegs: and the things they'd done there.
you know I mean, DeNiro there's a bit where he savages a bunch of villages with a flame thrower Isn't just like,
Dan: Deniros, you know, he's a survivor alpha male kind of in those environments.
And then the other guys have had to adapt and learn and they've gone crazy with it. I mean, it's just the, the craziness of war and
Reegs: Well and then obviously You get the Russian roulette scene,
Reegs: I'm assuming everybody has seen that scene. If you haven't seen the Russian relate scene,
Dan: seen this movie, Pete.
Pete: I've not seen this film
Reegs: Oh Wow. The Russian roulette scene is one of the tense moments in cinematic history. It's, it's really wonderful. I won't spoil it for You just watch it. It's a terrific movie to do.
Sidey: I think
it really captured the feeling of the country
about Vietnam and what was going on with people.
coming home. Not as much
deer hunting in
it as I thought it was going to be.
there was a little bit, but not as much.
Reegs: One other one, and I don't know where this comes in his Irv but I do know it's the one that he won the best actor for is raging bull. And we were sort of talking about it before with the method nursing.
And this is the one that you talk about because it's an absolute transformation from
DeNiro, physically, and mentally to deliver a really complex performance.
Sidey: It's the first one partnering up with Peshy as well.
Reegs: boxing scenes look a little clunky now I gotta be honest. okay. It is okay? Yeah, of course.
it is. It was a different
time and it's Presented. I don't know that it's necessarily supposed to be presented stylistically as realistic. But the stories where that DeNiro was so good that he could have easily turned professional.
I wish I had that time to do the research because I really wanted to look this up but it's way earlier than it normally is, but he trained with some legendary boxing trainer to to, you know, to get him in
Dan: Oh, he was, he was in incredible shape for this film. And I, I think I heard the same that he, he could have been a contender.
Sidey: It was him
DeNiro that wanted to get this film made. He had read the book and he gave it to Scorsese who was in the middle of a rehab because they had made what's the musical one, the jazz one.
film together And it was a
Pete: New York New
Sidey: Yeah It was a huge flop. And it sent Scorsese into this drug addiction, like hideous like cocaine spiral,
Reegs: heroin, as well to use
Sidey: I don't know if it was just kind of anyway,
he w he had been given the book by dinero and he said no it was full of shit and he didn't want to make it. And then eventually, obviously things did come together and they made a fucking great foam yeah,
the scene right at the end where he's punching the wall. Fantastic.
Dan: You've got a hell of a partnerships, almost, you know, Scorsese and DeNiro.
I've one of those understandings that are able to bring out the best in each other. And you get that with certain directors, certain actors that are
just drawn to each other and I'm really
Pete: to do it with DiCaprio.
a lot now
Sidey: both in
The next one, Maybe they're doing a Western
Dan: DiCaprio DeNiro in a
Sidey: And the Scorsese
Pete: film. Wow.
I'm going to then been Scorsese for a moment and talk about the untouchables.
plays a character called Al cap one. I think
He's sort of a bit pantomime in there. but I quite like it. And they have that great sort of scene around the dinner table where he's just saying something's happened and explaining that something's gone tits up and then he just. Baseball bats that guy.
horrific and he's just really good at when he did all the shouting and the courtroom at the ad and he's fucking losing it Cause he's gone from being this really smug you know, criminal sort of mastermind and it all fall apart.
on the basis of some tax. It,
It's just really cool. and I really love the movie for so many different reasons, but he's a huge part of why it's so great.
Pete: We can go back a little bit in time from from the untouchables to 76. For taxi driver.
Reegs: yeah. Yeah.
Pete: I don't know if this, was this was definitely one of the first films that I'd seen to narrow and I'd
heard so much about it. So many iconic things like the haircut, the, obviously the mirror scene, and I'd heard so many people talking like this is a film that you absolutely. I think Dan's probably going to do an impression for
Reegs: Are you going to do an impression of the prostitute, Jodie
Dan: It's just that, that scene that you're talking about, you're looking at me. You know what I mean? That's the
Pete: I think it's you're talking to me, but
Dan: yeah, you're looking at me. You're talking to me,
Dan: I don't see anybody else smelling me.
Reegs: Is there
that he improvised it. I don't know. if Is that true? I don't know. It's, that's the thing I heard.
but I mean like that, that film again is P is performance it's I think he's, he, he's
meant to be suffering with like PTSD. He's like a
Yeah. And then it's kind of like his, his like characters you know,
like mental state kind of spiraling.
And, and him like, just like the performance again. Absolutely incredible up to like a, like a, crush a crescendo as like this vigilante where like you know, like
he brings in the haircut, he gets, he gets tooled up
Reegs: He gets the Mohawk Doesn't he It's So it's so iconic that
Dan: gun thing that he's made
makes his own sort of like weapons
or or yeah.
ways to discharge them.
for sure. thought he was dead.
Pete: No. So he said he gets shot a load of times in that he goes to like the brothel to kind of
Pete: yeah. you know, he's, he becomes kind of like fixated with like rescuing.
I think he just like has dream sequences of like rescuing Jodie foster and, and yeah, he goes, he kills everyone.
That's, that's sort of been involved with her. And he survives he's he spends some time, a lot of time in the hospital. He's been shot a load of times because at the end he strive in his taxi and he picks up like the girl or the the the woman that he had a bit of a connection with, like previously. In the film. I think he like drops her off and
charge Doesn't charge her a fair and your mentor thing. Okay. So he's like this like full redemptive arc he's he's now completely fine. And then the end is her he's driving. And then he, like, he looks in the rear view mirror and see something in his face, like goes back to like something's happened in the rear view mirror and his face kind of like changes back to
Travis Bekele And then that's, that's the end of the film. Like you're just you know, men
sort of draw your own conclusions from that, but, again, ridiculous performance and brilliant film.
Dan: I'm going to wedge in there then. We've kind of the time that was for me, peak DeNiro is around 95, 96.
And you had casino come out in 95, which was just after
Reegs: well, you take Goodfellas before
Dan: good fellows
Reegs: And the feeling was a little bit, I remember feeling
this a little
bit at the time
why this is just the same
Dan: Good fellows was, what year did that
Dan: So is it a little bit early for me to have caught it and, and enjoyed it and seen it, but I just said casino was like, DeNiro was top of his game news. It was the most appreciated actor out there. And him going into doing casino, Sharon Stone with fantastic PESI and, you know, there was just, I love that movie.
It was really violent and everything. It was a nice, long, epic again. I enjoyed that. Steven doesn't eat
Reegs: so good in that. It's I think he's better in that than he is in Goodfellas.
Reegs: I got to say he's so
He's so charismatic
when he's on the
Dan: storyline as well, because obviously the mob were heavily involved in the casinos and everything.
So just under the, under the surface of all that, I thought it was fantastic.
Pete: he's like an associate rather than he's not like fully in the mob is it? He's not like
made guy or anything. And that's more like patchy character that like the the mafia were obviously involved in,
won the proceeds from the casino and so on.
And so he's like this, I guess, like this pivot between all of them
Reegs: Well, he's
Rothstein. Right. So he's Jewish, so yeah, yeah.
Pete: character is based on that they're all based on real people
don't know the name of the person, but it was you know, someone heavily involved in casinos and all of the mafia guys, it was kind of based on a true story.
Dan: But this was, this was DeNiro at his peak then I think as far as his fame and people, you know, bums on seats in a, in a cinema because the film after this is the one that it just I'm bringing up close because it's, it was the one after the fan, which was, hear me very much in the lead role with Wesley Snipes.
Do you remember that
Reegs: Yeah it's basically taxi driver, but
if he was a
was a baseball stalker, you know, so he's a fan that just becomes, and it was, it was such a, it was such a let down after so much promise, you know, and for me after this, he really struggled for a period of time. There wasn't an awful lot that I, I went to see DeNiro for, but it
Reegs: this when like Rocky and Bullwinkle,
Dan: this is it.
It was all kind of, it was all kind of coming out though, after this period,
Sidey: a few decent films, after
Pete: I've I've got I've got a couple here, but we're
Dan: three films a year or
Pete: certainly around the, the early mid nineties that you're talking about that was peaked in arrow I think
Dan: And what, what, what films did he done after that, that you
Reegs: cop plan is one
really liked James Mangold, who was the guy who actually went on to do one of the Wolverine or something. Anyway, he was never quite the star as a director that you thought this early movie showed he was going to be, but. This is the one that's got
Yeah, Railey oughta Stallone
Freddie Heflin He's a
sort of small time.
Sheriff he's deaf in one ear after rescuing a girl when he was a younger e-com
Reegs: can't masturbate, but you also can't join the police and he mostly sheriffs a place where it's a lot of police lived there. I don't understand that at all. It doesn't make any sense
don't understand American law enforcement, particularly in how it works.
between law enforcement. I went,
Pete: impression. Yeah.
Reegs: do the rest of the pod is Stephen Hawking.
Sidey: Maybe there's just like you know, retirement colonies of old place people. Yeah.
Reegs: So it's still own, is is rightfully Lauded for his performance as a fact guy. But
today I'm working at that by
Michael Rappaport. You remember him? He's got great. name Just say it Rapid He accidentally
kills two unarmed black guys which is not a good look. Well also this was back in the time when that was still a crime in America. Anyway, the crime gets covered up by Harvey Keitel and Robert Patrick from the Terminator
mustache which is interesting. There's a scene that I think about all the time still. And it's when, cause DeNiro plays against type here. There's all these corrupt police officers, but he's the internal affairs guy
Tasked with investigating it and he berates Stallone.
And he says, listen to me, you death fuck. I offered you the chance to be a real cop and you blew it. You had your chance and you blew it. And I just think about that all the time. When people fuck up
and you blew it,
Sidey: 1995, he had two movies out, Well at least two movies, one of them was casino. The other one was hate which is so fucking,
fucking rad it's he plays the sort of super villain kind of mastermind of this criminal gang opposite. You know, this is the first time we get to see these two heavyweight guys, but Chino is the copier is out to get him.
They know each other
Dan: share a lot of screen
Sidey: just the
One scene, where he is the really famous cafe scene where
get to act off against each other. And I've seen interviews of them talking about it and it's so boring. They're just not well, but she knows lively, but dinero know just like say, doesn't have a huge amount charisma off outside of the movies
Reegs: funny guy. He's not got much interesting to say
maybe just can't be bothered I just,
Dan: it he's got a lot more edgy in these last few years.
Reegs: He's got
Sidey: but he's really politically active cause he hated Trump so much, but
Reegs: heard of him.
Sidey: well, he had a cameo in her Homeland
Pete: Well, I'm too shy, too shy.
Sidey: Hey, I'll paraphrase him in a, heat but he says, you know, don't be afraid you can't get attached to anything. You're not afraid to walk away from if you feel the heat, you know, carry around the corner. and
you know it's it pans out Is he, is he able to walk away from this house and he ditches that bird it's fucking cold.
But this is
sort of crime violent bank, heist thriller movie It's So fucking good.
Dan: It's top, top film.
Pete: I'm just going to go back a couple of years again. Cause there's a, couple there's a couple in here that I definitely have to talk about and we still haven't even talked about good fellows yet,
but so there was a, so 1990 a film called awakenings. Which
this was a fucking, like a massively, like a moving film.
Reegs: seen it. I
So, so I'm probably gonna,
I'm probably gonna address the fact that I think we've had it previously. This there's a lot of Rob, probably a lot of Robin Williams hate in the room. I don't fucking get that. I really don't get it. He's an unbelief He is
a brilliant, yeah.
A brilliant actor, but
Sidey: it can be
Not when it, to be honest not, when he's trying to be funny
When he's playing serious roles, he's fucking brilliant.
And this is, this is dinero and Robin Williams. So it's basically the story. So Robert dinero plays a patient who's in a institution who's catatonic. There was a whole, I was just like an outbreak of a virus back in the twenties and thirties that, that left the load of patients, like totally catatonic.
There's like the iconic I think well to me it is, it's like the the the scene where, so um Robin would it?
Just like with a yawn to his
Reegs: Hey we still tired I bet he was still tired. Eloqua been asleep 20 years. Yeah. I
Pete: Fuck you for ruining that. But it was funny. So yeah. And Williams is playing a doctor who's like specifically
trying to patch Adams is
a fucking great film. Like I hate you for hating it. Anyway, this one specifically. So this is the bit where
dinero is like treating these, these patients. And he throws a tennis ball, a dinero who hasn't moved.
He's done nothing for like 20 years or whatever it is. And his arm just like shoots are catches the tennis ball. And it's kind of like a real, like, I'm not doing it justice, but it is a great.
catches a tennis ball. I know that that doesn't sound so good anyway, loads of treatment. And it doesn't really have that, that happy and ending.
But ridiculous performance again from generic Cause he has to basically play a guy catatonic, like who then goes through an awakening.
You could do the catatonic. bit definitely,
And then and then he has,
then he has like literally gets absolutely everything back, like full movement, full sort of like you know, all of his faculties
based on a true story.
Yeah. It all became like unfortunately though the, the the, the the medicine his own that was used just basically didn't have any longevity, like you you became immune to it, your your body rejected it. And, they just basically went back to where they were. So we asked to play like that sort of the awakening and then like the regression back into like, you know, catatonia
Sidey: the band
that's it, we are revealing shocking facts on this.
Robert DeNiro was in the band
catatonia Great film. Please do watch it.
Reegs: as well Should nominate it no, no,
no nobody does, but I don't think anybody has so yeah. Nominated for a mid weeker. I would watch
non-judgmentally watch Robin Williams patch Adams
the awakening. What was it? The awakening awakenings.
Pete: Yep Yep.
Dan: Well, I'm not sure where this lies in the
in the chronological order, but a Bronx tale was Deniros doc directorial debut. And this was a film where he played Lorenzo. I think the guy's name was the
Lorenzo oil. Yeah. That's another number one again, isn't it. But
he plays Lorenzo.
Who's a good, hard working guy trying to bring up his son in the Bronx who is under the influence of sunny, a a mob boss. And the story basically goes, it goes on through the fall. They're trying to lead his son along the white path Knowing that by telling the mob boss there, so you can get fucked up himself because the mob bosses is rootless as they are, but it's, it's a really, really great film.
And have you seen it, the bunks total?
Reegs: have seen it, but it was a long time ago.
Dan: It's it's again, it's another epic, you know, it's, it's really, as DeNiro almost had that tight cost at one point of playing these kind of films in these kinds of characters, he's in the Bronx, he's, you know, he's, he's in the mall, he's in mafia kind of doing this or he's one side of the tracks.
And the reason being is just fantastic in this. And he was fantastic with as a director as well.
Sidey: He's a real New York guy those ne he he'd never
living out in Hollywood and all that. He sticks to New York. and he does make a lot of New York movies.
Reegs: Well this, this movie is really Pam Greer's movie, but it's Jackie brown,
But it's a really good performance from DeNiro in this. He's kind of like, it's sort of
comatose throughout the movies. Like, you know, he's, he's, he's devoid of, of self-esteem he's just kind of drifting through it It's this burnout criminal and then when he really when he snaps and kills
fucking Samuel Jackson, I can't remember his character's name, Kara kill Samuel Jackson's women It's not his wife it's a really powerful moment.
It's like this Kayla dog being unleashed from a
slumber sort of thing. So yeah.
Pete: Yep Good
Dan: really, ER, can't remember watching this. I have seen it, but it's it's not one of Terentino's best ones. I think Jackie brown for
Reegs: Oh, you should probably
Pete: a really good
film Yeah Yeah, you should do.
Reegs: It's a good, it's good.
Dan: Okay. Well, I'm not saying you're not good.
I just say it's not whatever.
Yeah. It's tough
stack up against some of the other stuff as well, but it's good
come this far without talking about good fellows. So,
let's do that.
not the star necessarily more of an ensemble, I guess, but he's certainly, this is where we spoken about him.
Not having charisma off the screen, this one, Jimmy, the Gen-Z is
like just fucking pure charisma personified in this movie. Even the fucking violent bits is still
I just straight away thinking of him just a pairing at that night. that sort of
and just, yeah money is going in everyone's pocket or Robin, the guys, the lorries, and just giving them money.
And that's where he's getting his nickname the jet you know,
there's a fucking violent side there
like the shine box thing and you just see him like, his shoe coming down and just fucking stamping on that guy.
Yeah, it is strangling.
That's funny. though
wasn't what I saw straight away It was existing came out at night at night It was way too young at that point to get the cinema to see anything like that.
So I saw it later on but loved it seen it fucking heaps of times It it's
Dan: well th this character with, with the deaths that he does age just shows that he's not premeditate. You know, it's just like a spark of anger that it would just take over him and whatever he's got to hand, whether it be his boot or the phone or whatever, that's what he'll use to beat you to death with because, you know,
Sidey: I think
part of why this
so great is because they you know, it's got the sort of voiceover from
how, hill a
memory from Henry Hill and it's
the end he's just like, just said that very paint we won't stop And we took it, you know, and if someone fucking gets in their way,
they're not going to be looking good afterwards.
Dan: unbelievable latitude, completely, you know, just pace and an attitude.
Sidey: It's tough to say, which is, you know, their best partnership Scorsese, and DeNiro but
this would have to be right up
Sidey: amazing But a lot of it is radiata and this is
never better than
Pete: yeah. He's like
the main character
Reegs: and everybody who ever started in the Sopranos as well is in this,
Pete: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Reegs: who is in it, you just watch it. You're like, oh,
he's in the spires He was at she was in the is
Sidey: another one where the soundtrack is.
Pete: I only because I forgot to mention it, but one of 'em, so one of the guys from Soprano's was in the weird Al Yankovich film where we reviewed
Yes it was
Pete: yeah, it was,
Reegs: I meant to say that I can't believe I didn't say that. Yeah.
Pete: That's why I had to
Reegs: Feel Palmer Sean fuck you. And then he backs over him
in his car.
Yeah. I'm so glad it's got to me before this film has been mentioned or talked about, because this is not necessarily his best film, of this for me is my favorite dinero performance. And it's Cape fear.
Honestly, this is so fucking chilling.
Pete: performance Have you not seen it?
Reegs: it's so over the top Like
Dan: this must be 1991 91.
Pete: film, the films at
The film is a remake and I think the, so who are the other guys
Reegs: Gregory Peck,
Pete: Mitchell and Webb? No. Yeah, yeah.
Mitchum and pack that comedy Jiro So they were in the original but They have cameos in the remake as well, but so Robert DeNiro plays max Katie Who's he's a fucking nut job. Like he's basically, it's a, it's a clever, it's clever concept.
Sidey: and get back to the lawyer or something
Pete: Nick Nazis was Robert dinero, his lawyer. You don't see any of this, but it happened long before. And because
Sidey: you're doing a Tony blessing
I'm doing the Tony Blair thing again, as I say, I think
Reegs: you've got my vote.
Pete: Thank you. So what happened? Nick Naulty basically buried evidence because de Niro's character was such a piece of shit.
He's basically like raped ambassador a 16 year old girl. And because he w he actually wants to narrow it to go down. So he buries some evidence thinks that
no one would ever know
then Ben insides this it's an arrow's character he's been inside for, I think, 12 years or something like nowhere near long enough but he's been inside and he's sort of taught himself law.
And so and he comes out and he basically just
Reegs: loads of money somehow just
happens He likes his gets gifted the load of money in the middle of the
Pete: basically stalks and torments, Nick Nolte he's family so far like kills the dog. He's like
Reegs: talks really dirty where there's 16,
ed Juliette Lewis
You'd love that
Pete: rapes He
Pete: he rapes
like secretary, who knows he's having an affair with. it's
fucking terrifying. It's he? So, so chilling in this performance and it culminates in this big scene at the end where they were on a boat, like
Reegs: a storm. going and all That Yeah it's brilliant
Pete: sounded like the poster or whatever that was always you know, one of the
stills from the film.
And even then when he, when he died, when he finally like, you know, is, is. killed he No, no, no. He gets, he basically gets,
the boat and the boat sinks and he goes down with it
he starts singing like fucking military songs
gobbling and like, almost like he's possessed. I mean, it's just
fucking, honestly, like the hairs on the back of my neck are sticking up thinking about this performance and you know, this, this character, it's also got a slightly different place in my heart because the, my, my long-term partner, Cindy, when I got with her, I she didn't know who I was, and this is all going to sound weird out of
is going to sound really without a context. She didn't know who I was, but she basically a mutual friend had said, I know a guy who likes you or whatever. And so and we'd had like an email exchange from like a, fake email account because she
Sidey: he's 69 or Hotmail
Pete: know I was a
frisky, Cisco 69. So I set up a Facebook profile pretending to be a stalker called max, Katie and sent her, sent Cindy messages from this.
We had a lot of I probably, this is
painting Cindy in a particular,
because she was, she was pretty keen to chat with this guy who she knew, like wasn't called max Katie. And so even that is like me like max Katie is a profile picture.
yeah, special place in my heart.
Reegs: You brought together by a sort of redneck
Pete: I basically stalked And then yeah like she's now got Stockholm syndrome.
Dan: Well, I was going to say Cape fear.
Reegs: Reservoir dogs,
Pete: the Mitchell and Webb one
No, most of the ones that I wanted to mention have been mentioned, there's obviously a ton of other DeNiro films that we could go on and on about. I think men of honor is probably worth a shower, Cuba Gooding Jr. Where he plays the, the
on the war Navy training officer who Puts all the kind of difficult, easy in the way of his men to make sure they turn out to be men of honor.
he's a horrible bastard,
Dan: a horrible person.
I mentioned it in the courtroom since I'm top five.
It's a fucking brilliant again that like
there'll be tears.
did a silver line in playbooks as well, which is a
Sidey: more thinking about nominating
Reegs: Yeah I've not seen it.
Dan: I've, you know. Okay. So it took me a little while to, to get around to seeing it.
Reegs: Oh wait Don't, don't bust it up.
Cause we can
obviously watch this
Dan: I'll just say DeNiro plays the father. In the end he just says hello to my little friend and he just moves them all down before the aliens take them off. But it's yeah. It's okay.
Reegs: I was just wanting to mention one last one, really For me which was angel.
Pier was an egg.
Reegs: Yeah. He sort of
facing, he modeled his
look certainly in this film on Scorsese, is part of the reason I mentioned it.
He's got the slicked back. hair
Dan: like the devil, he
Reegs: well he's got the name is
That's the name of the character that he plays
Sidey: Mr P and
Reegs: when it's presented.
exactly. It's really bad. But actually the film is quite subtle and brooding, but it's mostly Mickey Rourke and Lisa Bonnie,
was probably getting
fingered by bill Cosby on the certain the bill Cosby.
show Remember the Anyway,
actually, it's actually a really good movie I have to say, if you ever are bored in a fancying, the unique combination of detective film Nawara plus satanic
It's a decent watch DeNiro is kind of ridiculous in this, but that's part of the point of it as well.
Sidey: We not mentioned once upon a time in America, which is. Fucking incredible sleepers. He plays father, Bobby. It's a film about
child rape. It's pretty funny. Um Ronin was the first one of his, I saw
the cinema which obviously not that fantastic in it, but the car chase is cool.
And then we could talk about king of comedy and how it's basically the same film as joker.
it kind of is,
Dan: it is
Reegs: Joko was like
some moody emo incell watched the king of comedy. Yeah.
Pete: I've not seen joker, but apparently it is deliberately kind of like meant to be inspired by a combination of taxi driver and king of comedy
Pete: I don't know.
Sidey: I think it was, I think it was that. And then they're like, we could make this joker
because it doesn't work like Batman's a child. Joker's not, it doesn't work timeline point of view. I I thought it was about over-hyped too when I was but it was all right.
Reegs: Oh, it definitely gets worse. The more you think about
I've not seen
it should. I
Reegs: Well, whack in Phoenix is
Sidey: It's used,
Reegs: Whack in Phoenix.
Sidey: it's used to teach like mental health stuff because his promise is so amazing as a guy
his mind that he's very
Reegs: He's unbelievable in it Yeah It's just like a really stupid pitch. Like
don't we take this really iconic.
Character and strip him down from everything that's like interesting, interesting about him and then make a basically completely different movie,
Sidey: just a guy that's got inside Yeah.
Pete: okay. I've only got one more on my list and this is, it's not, it's a guilty pleasure of a film
Reegs: Masturbating does a special Olympics
Have you have you have you noticed it
right? Have you seen
Pete: So it's like a, it's like a not fairy tale but It's like quite
fantasy film. It's got your favorite Claire Danes in
Pete: cannot stand Sam, ice Jason, he's in it, but it's got Robert DeNiro in it and he plays a fucking brilliant character. He's like this, it's like an air ship.
They cannot, they,
they no no, He's the captain
Reegs: he did that method?
Pete: spent a lot of time floating around.
He plays like the the captain. It's like a pirate air ship. Then I think they collect lightning or something and sell it at different ports. So
and he's meant to be, and like the bit
that's sort of like the joke is that he's meant to be like the most sort of like fearsome captain in the world and so on. But behind closed doors, he loves dressing up in women's clothes and he's really camp and it's
Reegs: see DeNiro in a dress.
Pete: he genuinely, and this is like a a funny performance in a comedy. It's not a comedy film, but this is like a comedic performance. And I think it
Like it hits the mark as opposed to a lot of the other stuff that he's been involved with in comedy. I've really liked his performance in it. It's a totally different side of him, but I think it's a, it's a good site
Dan: One of those that he's done some of the most iconic fighting characters that sometimes hard for me when I watch
Dan: to, to take the comedic side of him seriously, straight
Reegs: he's also done a lot of guff.
I mean, you
Pete: you mentioned, Rocky and
Sidey: I was looking at basically from
thousand I mean, I do quite enjoy meet the meet the parents, but after that tell jokes between 2000 and 2019, it's pretty much all stinkers stuff like that.
Dirty grandpa stuff.
Dan: Yeah. It really very sadden me actually, that he did. These
Pete: away from it all.
Dan: did these
Reegs: I haven't seen any of them. Yeah.
We should depress ourselves. when we can do it for a midweek
Sidey: Right? Anyway, Pete, what you're putting in
Reegs: Go further to
Sidey: Wow. Uh Heat Good fellows Isn't it.
Reegs: But it's either Goodfellas or
the listeners have to put good photos in.
this was your nomination.
movie What was it?
Pete: It was Moonlight. Which in you, you guys are normally the people who bring all of the facts about the film. I think it's 2016 off the top of my head.
Pete: I've done well. And I, I didn't know anything at all about this film. Why basically did is just looked at the criteria of this podcast, like things that I had missed.
It was obviously a an Oscar winning film came out
birth of two of my children in 15 and 17. So I thought this yeah, it was, it was I think the, the sort of brief synopsis that I read it seemed more interesting to me than some of the other films that, fit the bill.
And yeah, I hadn't really heard of
Reegs: oh I missed this one as well. And I did want to see it because of all the Oscar hype and also because of the weird thing with LA LA land that happened where they announced
it? Yeah. And that's mostly what I knew about this movie other than you know,
had said that it was good and it had won a load of
Dan: so what was that?
That was a misunderstanding when they read the
Lala land had swept the boards at everything
and it was
pretty much seen as a shoe-in for best film, and they announced it as best film And I think everyone was even on stage. And then someone behind the scenes, like you read out the wrong envelope,
Well we gave you,
gave you the wrong end but I think it was
Dan: And he Oscars
Dan: sake Are
Sidey: trivial little thing. It's just massive,
Dan: What the fuck? How can you make a mistake like that?
Reegs: It's huge. Isn't it?
You know Not
rigs So they had to basically usher them off and then get the Moonlight Moonlight guys.
up on stage.
Dan: That is an abs. I mean he's like VAR or something, isn't it you've just been, it's taken away that must've been like, clapping them going, oh, whoa.
Done. Not really meaning it, but you know, well done. You really did. And then like, fucking should have been us all of a sudden it is
like twisting it back round.
Sidey: Like your rigs I didn't know what the plot of this was going to be. I'd sort of got the inkling that it was going to be a sad story or something, you know,
Reegs: Well the posters were
I, the trailer, I hadn't necessarily caught but the posters themselves. They are really fantastic.
Dan: Is this purple kind of blue face?
Sidey: Yeah. And I'd heard lots of words, like powerful then you know, emotional and stuff like that. So I wasn't expecting a comedy
Dan: So I heard all this, but I didn't being that it's Sunday, today.
We normally we'll record on Tuesday. I didn't get time to watch this. So
Sidey: We'll tell you all about it but we will unfortunately and
Dan: going to spoil
Sidey: we're going to spoil it
Dan: Yeah. Okay.
Pete: But I don't think it's necessarily like, a
Pete: there's no big reveals
Reegs: no but we will talk about the big emotional
Pete: Yeah Yeah
Reegs: which there are, if you
Sidey: what it is,
a story, a life time sort of story of this, lad Split
into three chapters of his different stages of his life.
Dan: Okay. All right. So chapter one starts in chronological order do it. Yeah.
Reegs: And he it's sort of three stages of his development. The character's name is Chiron. Apologies if I'm not pronouncing that. Right. I think it's Chiron but in the first one he's little
And the story starts in the middle of a sort of crack,
Dan: ha sorry,
opens out in crack.
Ali is a drug dealer in this.
Have you seen the wire?
Sidey: very reminiscent of
Dan: seen one or two episodes where
Sidey: the opening
scene He's going to speak to one of the corner boys
effectively and It
is sort of like that
Reegs: we're in Florida. We're in Miami.
Yeah, we meet in the corner boy, there's some sort of stressed out crack guy trying to get his stuff, you know, it's, it's sort of things you've you've seen before.
The drug dealer, Kwan Mahershala Ali, he sees Chiron.
Dan: Did you say
Reegs: Juan Yeah he, you you find out later he's from Cuba?
He goes by the nickname, little he's hiding from a bunch of bullies in a
Sidey: crappy horrible
Reegs: It's awful. Yeah. There's like a he picks up a hypodermic needle. Doesn't he from the floor?
Dan: Fuck. This is opening scene stuff.
Is it? This is where we're introduced to this young character
Sidey: in his being
Reegs: he's been chased by a bunch of buddies?
So Hawaiian is speaking to one of his corner boys, and then eventually he sees a young lad run pass, and that's little,
and he's getting changed. And I I had the subtitles on, I had the words on
For my name
and you can see it and it's straight away.
There's like, a Comey little fag It's
Pete: quite Yeah. It's quite sort of like strong
being used chasing this boy who I think is 12 or is that
Reegs: thought younger.
I thought Maybe like eight or nine.
I mean, he, they
Pete: He's, he's a young boy Yeah Yeah and he's getting chased by a load of lads who seemingly seem a little bit older, but there's quite a lot of them there clearly intent on
him up for one reason or another.
And he manages to escape up a stairwell and into like a building that's like a
Derelict building Yeah. So he, he gets into one of these apartments and just locks the door and they they're like throwing stones and stuff at the door and the window. And then eventually they they give up and go away.
And, that's when you, you see
common, like not through one of the like the boarded up windows.
Cause he's, he's seen this cake at chase so he's obviously
followed It comes and sees this kid in, a in the derelict building and, and basically like offers to give it, gave him some food. like, he feels sorry for him So he's
you know, come come and get some food with me.
Sidey: speak to him. He doesn't say a word.
Reegs: doesn't say anything.
Dan: Th the lot, he won't say a word to
Sidey: he goes back
to the GAF and he says well. he won't speak to me, but you to speak to my Mrs
Reegs: he tries a variety of tactics, doesn't he takes him to a diner and he he gives him food in any withdraws the food in this kind of power
Reegs: It doesn't work, but he's trying all different strategies being really nice to him He's trying to get some reaction out of.
men. Then you say
he takes him back So
Pete: I see So when he, when he likes snatches the food, various kind of like negative reinforcement at that point in time. Cause he's probably, he wants to help this kid and the kid's not just not responding at all, not answering the question.
Who are you? Where are you
Dan: And this is all the same day immediately after.
Pete: all part of the opening sequences.
Reegs: So he does take it back to the, like you were talking about back to the place where he lives where the Teresa
Sidey: Janell Monae she's super hot I found that relationship slightly old because she
Sidey: she was
super straight, but she's with like, A crack dealer. know
Reegs: live in the suburb, busy suburbs type area. They've got, he's got a nice house, you know?
Dan: Well, I, I was wondering then, is there some kind of legitimacy in, within the society that they're living in or within that he's a crack dealer? No,
thing is it's, it seems sort of fairly apparent that even though he's, he's like a top dog in this sort of like the crack dealing business, but he doesn't look like a user.
He's not at any time Do you see him. He He's in really good Nick,
Sidey: isn't it
Pete: fucking buff in this film. So he's like, he doesn't it like a user. I think he's just basically like, you know, someone at the top of the tree and then
you know, it's, it's
Dan: it it's
Pete: Yeah You don't, you don't see any signs of like drug use in him or or, you know, in his household.
It's not immediate. It wasn't even immediately apparent to me that, that they were a couple there's no real
Reegs: interest So I have a question about that, which is tied to a powerful, emotional moment quite early on in, in the household
Reegs: he finally does. He says, what his name is Sharon?
I call herself little and he says, what's a faggot to him.
Pete: Oh the yeah. That's, that's a few sort of
scenes. Yeah. That's a That's a,
few scenes later it happens in the same, same
light setting. So
it's in, it's in the lounge, but it's a few scenes
Sidey: He starts
turning up. Because it's a safe space for him. And what you get, you realize that these beatings are like, daily occurrence And also his
Reegs: his mother
Sidey: mom is a, is an
Pete: yeah So
little, stays over at Hawaiian and Teresa's place that night. And then they take him back the next day. eventually, he sort of says must-see where he lives and takes them back to the mother. And that's when it's like the reveal that she's an addict.
guys coming in and out of the place. There's no father seemingly around. So
Sidey: it's Naomi Harris.
Pete: it is Naomie Harris
Dan: a bit like your place
Pete: It is a little bit like that. Yeah.
Only like less welcoming.
Dan: Well, well, okay, so we, we've got this, this young lad, then who's beaten up daily chase daily and finally found potentially another safe place to be because that actually home's turning into a bit of a shit hole as well, where,
Reegs: Yeah, But it is in the arms of the crack dealer who sells crack to
mother is we
Reegs: in a powerful
scene not, not knowingly,
he's not doing it Yeah but through other people, she buys his crack and he went stop her. There, there is a really good scene where he asks Mahershala Ali about what is a faggot and the response was what the best answer I've ever heard to that question, which is,
a word paraphrasing.
I should have
Sidey: It's a word you use to make gay people feel bad. That's what he says to him.
And he says,
nothing wrong with being gay and you should not allow others. to mock you for it. But he's so young
Pete: as as,
as some point he kind of Juan almost like goes to say like, it's okay to use an F and then like, Teresa like looks at him and shakes her head and,
and then he just goes, no, no it's not okay.
Yeah. almost like, I think, cause he's, he's trying to say like, it's, it's like a, it's like an urban word. It isn't always necessarily derogatory, but in this sort of context with
Dan: this, you're hearing it.
Reegs: it's a
really powerful moment.
cause then he does say to him, but you're selling drugs this when he
Reegs: that you're selling
Dan: But it's very succinctly put that. Isn't it? It's very simple to the point.
No bullshit. And I think that's it's almost childlike in the way that it's that simplicity, but it's also, you can't
Sidey: really bad because the light makes us
to You get this
then the flip side of it. So they're being really good to him.
They're looking after him, but he says, do you sell drugs? You know? And he's just, like
Pete: a long pause.
Sidey: he's like yeah, I said, do you sell drugs to my mother? You know,
And you're like,
fuck it's like he knows
by this time you've seen a scene where like Hawaiian goes back to LA know, see his, his guys on the streets and so and then walks past the car and sees
Little's mom in a car with, another guy and that smoking crack.
And she even challenges like, cause he starts going like, you know what the fuck are you doing? Like, you know,
Pete: by this time it's,
it's all familiar. This, this boy is going around. to Juan and Teresa's house all the time.
she cites saying you know,
you going to bring up my son. Are you going to bring up my son? Like, she keeps like challenging.
him Like she's basically got him because he can't really say a great deal about it.
though one's house is a better environment It's still
Dan: and w what's the relationship, sorry, but I'm just a little bit confused other than just it's a safe place
Reegs: It's paternal
he's season one you know he doesn't have a father at all and it's completely paternal
Dan: Right. So he's just really just feel sorry for him. That, that
Pete: mean in
the middle, in the middle of, it
Reegs: he feels guilty. Obviously one feels guilty about what he's doing to the community, through his drugs. So he is taken on this sort of role to, you know, and then I also wondered because you were talking, I felt that business nurse, like of his relationship with his girlfriend or whatever it was.
And I wondered whether my Herschel Ali's character was gay himself,
I didn't know.
and that she was like, what do they call it? A beard or whatever,
where it's like, they're
Pete: I was just going to say before that there's a scene where he teaches little to swim.
So he takes them out into like they're on the beach front. So he takes takes a little out into the water. He can't swim and it was almost like it was almost like a baptism you know he's like
later he's like
ELO's him on his back in the water. And he's like, let's just let, let your head, let your head into my hand.
And then slowly just kind of like teaches him to be able to like,
be, you know, water is a bit of a theme in the film.
And so he kind of like allows himself to just kind of like relax in the water and then eventually teach amounts of sort of like stay afloat and swim and so on. So he's taken on this, like this, like the paternal figure in
this boy's life.
Albeit it's it's conflicted because of the, you know, the selling of the drugs to, to his actual mother.
He couldn't actually swim So that was
a genuine thing,
Dan: couldn't swim. He wasn't
Sidey: no he he He really genuinely couldn't swim. So when they were doing that scene, it was all like January reaction. you know He was fucking shit himself and they had to you
Reegs: was brave to go in because they were in reasonably deep. I wondered whether he
And it's the sea, it's not a pool. So there's, this you know, waves and currents and stuff like that. It's
Reegs: but it is this transformative scene, like you were saying as many sequences throughout this, I'm sure we'll talk about, but in the background, there's still this undercurrent of homophobia, his mother.
I want to say
talks to Juan about basically saying everybody knows either faggot and she says that word. And then he is also having this relationship with, was that Kevin in the first
whatever it was, it was Kevin. So
he ends up tussling with a friend who's about the same age as him called Kevin. And they it's under the guise of I'm talking about
Reegs: self-defense but
it becomes ambiguous whether it's kind of just guys walling around touching each other, you know, I mean, just explore it.
you Know it's
clearly his first
Dan: still, in the first
Reegs: the end of the first secret
Pete: but, but that,
that sequence where they're sort of like tumbling it's is his film quite cleverly and it just sort of shows it's, it's meant to suggest that there's more to it than just like
one friend teaching another one. How to look after himself or like two lads having a tussle it's kind of shot so they see like sequences of like their, their legs kind of like
Reegs: just hands pressed together and stuff
Pete: sort of, because it would be a really tough thing to do to suggest that eight, nine year old boys, like right now, you've got to have like a what like a,
So doesn't come across like that. That's what I'm saying. It would be tough to make it like that. And I think it's done in a really clever way. There's also,
I mean, the mum says. I don't know if you're menacing because there's nothing necessarily about that kid that would strike me as like, oh, you know, that he would be,
would stereotypically be
who would present as homosexual like say camp
It wouldn't be, you know, the boy didn't, it wasn't necessarily camp. The mother says, oh, you've seen the way he
it was yeah. It
Sidey: all the abuse
Reegs: It was just taken for granted. I wonder whether he'd been abused or something like, you know, there was, there was some mark about him that you didn't see as an audience member.
Pete: I think, I think like we're probably going to come to the close of the first chapter.
Reegs: Pretty much
Pete: Herschel early
is an actual, I think I've only seen him.
I haven't seen him in a lot of films. I saw him in true detective. I think it was like the third season or whatever I could have just fucking watched him act all day.
He was so,
So good. Everything about like that.
obviously also been treated as such. he's a totally different characters of the one he's playing now, he's basically playing like a match show.
Reegs: Should see him in green book then he's totally
Dan: That was a really
kind of like
masculinity is barf. He's got, you know, he's always wearing a vest he's got chains. He he's got the, you know, he's a drug you know, he's a drug dealer who like people are like just frightened of his presence and stuff like that.
such a good performance from
Sidey: one the best supporting actor Oscar for this. But only 20, less than 20 minutes of screen time.
Pete: Like it's.
Yeah. it It's a brilliant,
Dan: If you can just
Reegs: So anyway,
Dan: take the man at a match in a, in a 20 minute cameo. Yeah.
Sidey: Well, we do move on now.
move on to the teenage years and I think this section is probably the most bleak for me. I just really felt for him in this one because he's Tinder. But even as body language, he feels really beaten down his shoulders him slumped all the time. His facial expression is really
this kid is phenomenal.
And it's just, so
just looks like it's got the weight of the world on
Sidey: and he's just having his fucking shit day after day after day, you know, it's it
was really quite
Pete: it's gone. So like, I don't, I don't know.
high school may be Yeah. So,
So you see him in his lessons straight away in one of the lessons. There's like a guy in the class, in front of the teacher. he keeps he's like turning around to me He's going I'm going to fuck you up to like
Pete: the chapter's called just shy, Ron, this
one, isn't it. Yeah. So he's like turning around. saying I'm going to fuck you up. Like and the teacher can hear, all of
You send them out the room.
That's all they can do get out, but it's already intimidate So the
has obviously continued. Like you say, he's very like his body language is is so, so negative. He's also still very like withdrawn in terms of like interactions. When people speak to me he doesn't say a great deal, but he's still got this friend, Kevin, who's in his life, who
has like, like proper interactions with like stops in the co There's one. They he's like, he's basically waiting in the school, waiting for Tyrrell and his cronies to, to fuck off so that you can leave because he knows he's going to get battered by them. And his friend, Kevin comes along, starts talking about
Reegs: He's talking about some cheek that you bang
Pete: Yeah. Yeah.
Sidey: he sees him having sex.
Pete: oh no,
I think that's I thought that that no it's a dream
Reegs: dream sequence
Pete: think, I think basically it's like a, it alludes to him having a fantasy about Kevin having sex.
Like he you don't really see the girl, you see him saying, seeing Kevin and Kevin just kind of like turns around whilst he's having sex. And it's like,
hi, he calls him black He's
his nickname for, for Sharon is black. So he's like you're a K black like that while she's having sex. And then
Sharon wakes up.
Reegs: that's important because earlier we had a thing about Kwan tells this story about his nickname was blue.
I'm so Sorry for interrupting. but it seems
relevant because Yeah. because he talks about what's the story that he tells about
Pete: he walks
past an old lady. And when he walked past an older lady, when he was, when he was young and she says, I don't know, she said something about love, what's your name?
And he doesn't say it. And she said oh yeah, like you're you know, you're a black boy out in the dark and under the Moonlight black boys, like you, like, you look blue
she says, So my name for you is blue.
Reegs: And by the way, there have been many stunningly rendered shots all the way through of the boy and like set against neon backgrounds and stuff.
It is like really beautifully. Like the cinematography is just really top notch. So when it's described like that, it feels poetic and it justifies the visuals as well
many Oscars did this win? Right. And what were they for
film best supporting actor
and best hand job,
Reegs: which is, which is where, which is where we go next.
Pete: it is pretty much where we go next.
Reegs: Kevin and
Reegs: Perry me on the beach.
Again, many many scenes of talking about water being near the ocean.
Pete: But this is like, so basically Chevron has put himself in a position. So he's gone to a beach that he obviously knows that Kevin goes through this is where Kevin goes to, to light smoke his joints.
So he can
show her ons, just sat there on the beach,
Pete: Yeah. And Kevin comes along and see show run These are what you do in there. And he's like have you come here this is where I smoke my joints. You want to smoke a joint with me? Brings
Reegs: out a really mean looking
Pete: Yeah. And he offers it and says like, and like the first show.
runs I know thank you. And then and he's I'll go go easy on it, And Sharon's Like my mom's a drug addict. It's Like
there's plenty of stuff lying around my place,
Reegs: Oh man. That was so
I fucking heart broke in
half at that. Might've
th the fact
is originally, he didn't say no. he sorry, the originally he said no, because of, you know, he's not going to bounce a peer pressure or whatever it's because
know, there's addiction issues in his household and it's something that he doesn't want to really get involved with.
And yeah, so he ends up having to go on this joint. And then basically after that, they're both kind of like, you know, feeling the effects of it. And then there's like a big sort of like long moment where they're like looking at each other, getting a little bit closer, not sure. Like it's, it's really kind of like, tense because I was hoping so much, I was hoping they were going to kiss not that he was going to go and kiss Kevin and Kevin was going to fucking beat
him up or something.
ended up kissing and it's sort of like, you know, before long Kevin's hands going straight down, straight down his shorts and like, yeah getting straight on it
Sidey: you can either show the hand Tents, you know,
Reegs: you get
actually, what is surprisingly, I feel like as a heterosexual man to say, I don't know why I have to qualify that but you get this shot of them in reverse with the Moonlight on the beach.
And it's kind of this romantic, like moment for them
Sidey: almost the one happy sort of moment. he gets Yeah.
Pete: Yeah. And it was done.
It was done in short in such a like a, a good way.
and like the portrayal of it I mean, it's basically, it's like two young lads, like experimenting and one's giving the other hand job, that's it like a base level, but it's almost done Like, I mean, you know, like I'm heterosexual, but I know sometimes yeah, but and I wouldn't go out of my way to watch like, you know, guys kissing or doing, you know,
other stuff for that matter. But at no point did I feel like uncomfortable or weird or anything about this, it was done in such a way that it was
by this time you feel so much for sure on You want this like happiness and joy this moment that he's having And I was so pleased that Kevin was genuine and wanted it to happen as well. It was actually done in such a light tender.
Dan: you say society that this was kind of the only moment, and this is under the Moonlight, is it, is this
Sidey: but it's,
It's fleeting because All up to this point, he's had
you know really, really tough slog. And then he'd be had this
romantic moment, this bit,
this one bit of joy and then the bullies get hold
of Kevin and say, you remember that time when we said the word and you fucking beat the shit out of that guy,
going to do that again today.
sort of joked right here I really fucking gave it to that fellow, you know, but they picked her on it's fucking grave It's so, So great
Pete: What I read into this is like, obviously Shiran is is you know, he's,
he's a gay young man, right? And Kevin is seemingly I think bisexual. Right? So he's, you know, but Kevin wants to sort of conform to this like expectation of machoism right.
So what he does is he will, he never gets picked on and he doesn't sort of get any bother because even though he has feelings for for guys you know, in the way that Sharon does. He buries it. Kevin, it's like not known. It's not obvious. And
Reegs: I think he might be, he could be bisexual Like you see so he's quite happy, but
he keeps his sexual
Pete: no, people around don't know
no They don't know. and so, and he plays up to like the, you know,
the Matt show kind of like yeah. expectation
Reegs: doing what he can to survive because otherwise you get bullied by Tyrrells gang.
And So yeah, he he has to Pitt to punch him. And so he kind of,
Sidey: he won't stay down.
Reegs: He punches him once
decent punch but he pulls up
Pete: down stay down So basically you pick a kid. So like this bully tells you to pick a kid and you punch him every time that kid gets up, you have to punch him again. So the idea is to get the kids to stay down, but shy. Right. And obviously this is a guy who was just at a really fucking, the most intimate connection of his lifetime.
that I think maybe the night before it doesn't really
Sidey: qualify I'm not sure,
Pete: but it, and the next day he's like basically punching the fuck out of him. And Shai
Ron's defiance like tells him to stand up and keep going Instead eventually like the bullies Tyrone and the bullies just like they've had enough.
So they just shove Kevin out of the way
Pete: and fuck. Should I run up? Like they
kick him all
Sidey: It's not the good fellows kick, you know,
Pete: Yeah You see like heels coming up and down and
been absolutely battered. You see, after scenes of him
sort of put back together, he puts he puts his face in bowls of
Pete: Yeah Yeah.
And like another water. thing
Reegs: oh and we've missed one earlier as well.
When he's filling up the bath with water, he heats up the
Dan: regular thing, he knows the routine.
It's just no I think this is the first time he does it actually.
Reegs: the swelling down
Pete: beating seems to be like more significance than, than any of the others. The rest of it.
it's just like verbal. Like they, intimidate him in the street more than anything, Yeah
Reegs: eventually I mean, they're trying to push him to reveal the identities. she wants him to say. Who the attackers were, but he refuses And as he recuperates and then he
Sidey: I didn't know. quite where would go with this one
Reegs: and just picks up an empty
Pete: Well it's,
It's a really drawn out scene because he walks in, shows him walking up to the school, going through, he goes through half a dozen doors, at least
the look on his face.
Like you think
Pete: he got a
garden Yeah yeah Yeah. Like This is like, you think this is revenge time
Sidey: and it is, he picks up a chair and just smashes it over.
Sidey: Tyro's head 10 back and
Dan: fuck the bad-ass guy.
Reegs: yeah, absolutely.
Sidey: so bad ass now.
Dan: Right in the middle of class
Pete: and then like fucks in with it again for good
Sidey: Yeah While He's on the date. He smashes the rest of what's
left the chair
Dan: that shit.
Reegs: and Then the police turned up and cut him off. to juvie and that's kind of the end of, of
shy Ron story.
What we haven't probably talked about and it is in a the Mo Theresa has
one is never mentioned
Reegs: Yeah. He's dead
Pete: yeah, we've completely met So my Herschel or Ali's character it's alluded to a couple of times, it's this thing talking about
funeral and so on, it doesn't mention anything about what happens. It just kind of like leaves you cut off from Kwan who was
a massive prominent figure in the, in the first chapter.
Now he's just completely gone. It's also, you see the, like the acceleration of the downfall of the mother like Paula she's now like begging him for money. and like, almost like abusing her sunlight threatening him to get money off him
Theresa basically gives like Shyrone money from time to time.
So she gets that money off Sharon to go. And
get like Bible crack. She says that he comes home from school one day and he's, and she says to him like oh, you can't be around here. I've got like a guy coming around. and She's a prostitute. She's like, that's how she's getting some money as well as her, light decliners has been accelerated.
Dan: And how old is Chevron at this age?
Sidey: I'd say he's about
Dan: 15. Right. So
Sidey: high school here.
Reegs: he's certainly off to juvie.
they make reference to that at the end of his scene.
But yeah her
Dan: a, it's just an, a nightmare start for most people add into the fact that he's gay and
everybody knows about it. He's
Reegs: up coming up
climax of the
I think the fact that he's, he's gay in that environment in such a, you know, this is obviously not a, an affluent part of Miami.
This is I mean, not the schools and the houses and that they're not like so, so shitty, but they're. They're not particularly nice places, especially where he lives with his mom. He's a crack head and stuff. So, but he's, he's gay in an environment that is not fucking
not forgiving It's all. Like it is all my life.
don't know when this is Seth I imagine it's kind of set, you know, roundabout like modern sort of
Sidey: time So it's relatively.
Reegs: I noticed and
Well, my wife noticed actually a curious lack of phones. They didn't play any part. So it lent, it's a sort of
Dan: go straight to the eighties. Don't you
Reegs: Well, I
don't know though I didn't feel like it was that, but there was very little to mark it out as a time piece
Because it's very subtle and restrained in a lot of it.
So anyway, now we're into the, the sort of emotional climax and the climax of the three act structure with the third part. Third chapter
Called black. And
Sidey: he's now a drug dealer?
Reegs: He, well, he wakes up in the morning, doesn't he? And he, I noticed immediately he's got the same hat
I don't know what
that hat is called.
I don't even know if he's called. it
Pete: I want to say, do rag what's the do rag. That's what I want to say is it's basically like, you know
almost like a bandana, but it's, it's like sort of a
I dunno, like a cloth sort of
material. Yeah. Like a nylon material. That's
Reegs: and there's like a
Sidey: oh yeah. I know what you mean.
Pete: I th I think like American football is where it underneath their like helmet,
Reegs: On you it would be a don't rag.
it might not be a do. rag
Reegs: anyway. He's got the same thing that one used to like very prominently where he's absolutely fucking
Sidey: he stacks now
Sidey: He's also got a grill
Pete: like one. Doesn't he he's like almost like
one And he's got
gold chain, massive fucking muscles.
Sidey: He's got a grill
Pete: Yeah Yeah. He's got a what'd you call them fronts like say like gold gold teeth.
top and bottom.
Reegs: right pain in the ass That and it looks shit.
if you've got fronts on
Pete: Yeah. He looks like will Ferrell in the other guys when you
find it It's backstory.
thing. He's called Gator. And he's like,
Reegs: So yeah, he's, he's absolutely huge. got these teeth.
Sidey: He's now getting calls from his mom Who's in who's having treatment for her addiction.
Reegs: She's in rehab. She
better than the last time we saw
Pete: she has
Reegs: her life around to a degree. But
a really cold exchange between them,
Pete: but before that so you basically see what his life is.
He's living in Atlanta now. He Mo he's gets up, gets in his car. He picks up some guy.
on a thing,
And then it soon becomes apparent that he's now a drug dealer he's basically become what Juan was.
Reegs: go on is yeah, Kwan had this really nice car I don't know what it was. I'm sorry, car enthusiastic. But he was a lovely car.
Pete: like an Oldsmobile with the rims and all of that.
Reegs: And it had like a
crown on the dash and he's got the same thing.
in his shit
Pete: So he's, he's taken
on the sort of like persona of the person that I guess was like the only kind of like father figure or someone to look up to in his life.
He again, interesting thing for me the the interaction he has with the guy that he picks up, it's a girl it's about girls.
It's like, you know, this guy he's, he's
show taken on. Like he, is he's far more kind of like what he's, he's, he's older and seemingly much more confident talks a hell of a lot more than it than he used to. in the in the like in the previous chapters
Reegs: he's been in prison as
Pete: he's also, yeah.
He's he's done
I didn't know if that was like for the battering of Tyro with a chair or something else or whatever, but he's chatting.
Reegs: was more
wasn't there because he has a conversation with his mom and it was like, basically what else?
could I do?
Pete: but he has a chat with it with the guy that he picks up who's younger. And it's about girls. It's about like, you know, are like, you know, which bitches you fucking and all this. So this guy and this guy's talking about all this one on this corner, like she only comes out at night and he's and Shyrone like calls him out for like making it up, just basically
And there's so because obviously what, what you kind of like the the reveal that you want is like, What's happened in terms of his sexuality and like, his his you know,
that in his relationships with people like men, women, whatever you want to know, where that's kind of gone it's Australia, where it's kind of like alluding to the fact that he's having, he's having the chats that every other kind of like straight alpha male
kind of guy in this macho
you're assuming that that is the case. That he's just
a little bit like Kevin was doing in the previous chapter where it's like, even if that's what he does in his like private life, he's not gonna like have that out there for everybody to see he's gone completely the opposite of what you'd say, would be a stereotypical, like character who's homosexual where there's maybe some kind of like calmness or whatever.
Like there's, there's none of that. He's now gone full blown, alpha male macho And intimidates the guy in his, in his, in his house. He's like, once they've done a day's drug dealing he gets him to count it the loud count set and he goes, it's all there. And then like Sharon decided, I turns on him and he is like, oh, like, you're confident in you Well I'm calling, you're a liar.
You're a liar because you're saying that it's there and it's not all there. I want you to counter the
cake counts again. And it's it is the right amount. And he was I just want to make, if you're going to be on street corners for me, you need to be able to fucking have People calling you out and shit.
So he's now become like, as I say, taken on one's persona.
Reegs: Yeah. He goes for a reconciliation with his mother. She tries to apologize.
Sidey: Yeah. She says she's sorry that. She didn't love him when he needed it the most. And that she understands if he doesn't
Pete: So fucking emotional that scene.
She even says, I love you. I love you so much. And even if, even, even, even if you don't love me back,
Reegs: you. he tells her he hates her,
Sidey: but they do kind of reconcile
Reegs: sort of. It's a very,
Sidey: it's not a mega happy
Reegs: yeah. it's not It's not right.
He gets a phone call from Kevin kind of out of the blue.
And they, he sort of says, oh next time you're in Miami, you should come up and see me or whatever they chat on the phone. It's all fairly sort of bland
Reegs: vulnerable is the way I thought I was going to cry When you said that people honorable yeah vulnerable. is the word? Yeah,
That he can,
Pete: And it can like the acting in this film is so, so strong.
Reegs: So he, he ends up. Traveling to Miami to visit Kevin where he works, which is a diner. And they
of chat, but shy Ron never says anything really. You know, he's
Pete: he doesn't give a lot away
Reegs: giant and silent still, like he was in, in the beginning story when he was little. but now he's black well that's, I
Sidey: it was
Reegs: No, no, that is
what his nickname is
Pete: But Kevin reveals that he's got a daughter With like a, an old sort of girlfriend from that that they knew from back in their high school days or whatever, but that they're not a couple is, that this is a
Pete: little Kevin Kevin's done a stretch as well.
whilst he was inside, he was in prison.
He was on like the, the, the, on the line in the kitchen or whatever. And he, he enjoyed it. So he's become a chef.
Reegs: you know, he, he's not portrayed as being like a deadbeat dad at all. He sort of enthusiastic about it. And
know, he's trying to turn his life around in the diner.
There's There's a few bits where he, I think he sort of shrinks a bit from him when he finds out that he's a
Pete: sure Everyone tells him, and he said, he calls it trapping Yeah. Like I'm trapping. And it's like, well again, like what else was I going to do? Like that, that was one thing I need to say is like
light will come on So how much I really love this film.
And everything like that
chef's special look fucking horrible.
That fucking rice on the,
Pete: what was that? I mean, I I hope like, I don't know what it was, in it like maybe like a pork or steak or something like that with some onions on it and some rice and so on. And then what I thought was like black current jam or whatever, but I think it was maybe some beans.
Wasn't really an appetizing meal, but this was
Kevin saying that you can order anything off the menu. I'll cook it and
or you can have the chef's special. I would not go for the chefs special. that's, that's my, one of my recommendations.
Reegs: He puts a song on,
he says so why I want to know why he called me.
And it's a song that he puts on the jukebox. It's reminded him of Chevron
Reegs: Yeah Chevron and Kevin
back to his
Dan: What was the song?
Reegs: I wouldn't
song, but the lyrics were
It was like,
It was, like I haven't seen you in such a long time, you know, it. It basically the song made some guy put it
on and the song made him think
Reegs: the soundtrack is generally quite minimal in this.
school, like a I'd say like a sort of a sixties kind of,
Reegs: there was some of that I knew there was a lot of, kind of
I was listening to
the bit I was
Sidey: we kept
Reegs: there was pyramid
Reegs: Of the intro to pyramid song, but slow down.
Pete: You mean specifically the one that goes played on the jukebox,
Sidey: it was actually the birdie song.
Dan: It just reminded me of
Pete: I thought
this like when he walks over cause again, like
it's, so there's
such powerful scenes in your life, in them.
and I did imagine I imagined I thought this. is going to walk over to the
gym So I was like, imagine we played
the midst Of downtown,
Reegs: Wow. Massively
undercutting the emotional way
we shouldn't do that. We are bad dads though
Sidey: They they do go back to Kevin's
run Sharon, so I could get it wrong. Hey
Sidey: Cheryl basically admits that he hasn't had any sort of intimacy since that moment on the beach
Pete: And this is like 10 years on. So we're thinking like
Reegs: one else
Pete: mid, mid,
mid to late
twenties he is now.
Which is, which is alarming considering like he's a good looking guy in ridiculous neck. So you know that there's like, there's this deep rooted. like
Dan: He's just frozen
Pete: there which he must've done like phenomenally well to, to not raise suspicion in the sort of environment that he's in because where there's drugs, there's like Yeah. There's crack hoes Right. And I'm sure he'd have had plenty of opportunities to, to, you know, to do what he wanted to do, but yeah,
it's not happening.
Sidey: Kevin just kind of comfort him and he
Reegs: kind of cuddles,
Sidey: he pitches himself again as a child.
Reegs: Well it he's cradling his head. Like he was that one was when he was cradling him in the sea It's very much
Sidey: This moonlit
shot on the beach.
Reegs: And that's and that's the end.
Dan: Y okay. That's that's it, it just kind of fades to there. Yeah.
Pete: I mean, again, I I dunno, you sort of,
Reegs: I didn't know what to think at the end I was sort of hopeful that these two guys had found each other
Dan: That would
certainly indicate to me, you know, that they
Sidey: It gives you a little
bit a little crumb of hope for me it's
Reegs: yeah Their
Sidey: not the mega happy ending
Sidey: It's, you know, he has reconciled his mum which is a positive, he has reconnected with this guy who gave him his one sort of moment of intimacy and
of companionship. So there is a bit of hope at the end of the film, but it is quite quiet. It's very bleak.
this is very bleak. So
I would absolutely recommend this movie to people, but it's not, you know, if I said, was I not set up you're not sort of entertained in that sense?
you know what I mean?
it You are so taken in by it and moved by it.
Reegs: It was clearly something interesting to talk about and to think about as well. And there are many, many interesting things going on in it, but it looks stunning as
Reegs: Like every shot, like it's got this
points like this really saturated, pastorally color palette.
And then at other points, it's kind of Niani And like really sort of really high definition. I don't even know how to describe it. I haven't got the vocabulary, but
Dan: I I'm kind of getting thoughts of, of some of the, the films we've mentioned on, on the pod before maybe city of God or something like that.
Or is it, I mean around that epic, you know, in these three different parts, you've got these people changing their laws,
Sidey: It's I wouldn't say it's epic in that So it's more intimate.
is a small sort of cast and it's not super long film. you just
Pete: explore like the, the, the gang culture so much as like those other, th th the theme of the film is very much this, this guy and his sexuality, but specifically his sexuality in the environment that he's been born in.
That's like that this is a film. And a story that like absolutely has to be made.
has like a little bit like, you know, promising young woman a few weeks ago, it's this happens, that this situation and scenario, I mean, it happens now think how many, how many years, decades, like not centuries because of the
the sort of like the
cultural sort of
environment, but this story happens all right all the time.
Like like where we're sort of, you know, we're lucky in the sense that like we're all parents, if any of our children grow up to be homosexual or whatever, at least we live in a a place where it's kind of understood and accepted and welcomed and embraced a hell of a lot more than it is in other places.
And there are places that embrace it and everything, I love a lot more than where we live. This is a place where it's totally unforgiving there is no room for this in this environment.
And actually it's it's, it is a semi or also, so,
so I'll tell you what it is. It's based on Tarell McCraney is an unpublished semi-autobiographical play.
So it's a guy who's written a play who this is kind of like his life, He's a gay guy who's grown up in this kind of environment. A lot of it has been, you know, dramatized and, and, you know, embellished to, some extent. But this is this is a a person who has lived through this and experienced it,
it into a play, which has then been adapted into, into this film, which is why it's so fucking powerful as a, as a piece of art and a, and a message.
loads of interesting stuff going on here about masculinity and interesting things about sexuality and addiction violence and parenting and crime, and you know, it's all going on.
that's why you said epic because it, even though it is this really intimate, small scale, a lot of what's going on is kind of unsaid
And there it's slow.
This is a slow movie. This is either I don't know what the running time was. I think it's less than two hours. I watched this quite late at
on a night when I did wouldn't want to necessarily, but we had do to make recording work. But it's just beautiful, really, really, really, and it's a love story.
It is all those other things, but also it's this love story between Kevin and Chevron
Pete: it is tragic, so captivating.
Sidey: of the The other stuff, if you, if you say that, if we just say it is a love story and a sexuality story, that
the other things that explores I've mentioned the why before all that stuff is explored because they have a longer time to
into those things that's all in there.
And did a lot of the times I was sort of reminded of the why, it just
Because of the setting of it. And what's going on in the environment does take you back to that. But had a really, really low budget, only a million and a half this,
Dan: wow. Wow.
Sidey: And I th I don't know if Brad Pitt was
credited as a producer, but he did help get it financed.
So I think it's pretty cool. Obviously with being an Oscar winner, it's going to be a winner at the box office, but who wants to have a go see who gets closer? It's a slice of cheese in it for whoever gets
Dan: right. I reckon this is probably if it's a million, I reckon it's probably taken 25,000,050
Reegs: Well, I was going to say what Dan said So I'm going to say 20
Sidey: 65 million So
Pete gets a slice of cheese. It's
the first, all black cast film to win best picture at first L G B T film to invest pitcher. So it's sort of plowing, a furrow
Reegs: the film, the tourism and the, the, the cinematography, right. It's absolutely stunning in this film.
It was by James Laxton. I will give anyone a trillion points. If you can tell me which of the movies that we've already watched for the podcast, you guys haven't seen it There's a big clue for the podcast, at least. That we watched that he was the cinematographer
Reegs: you're in the right You're in the right areas.
Pete: to film, you said
Reegs: We'd reviewed on the pod on bad dad's film review, but you guys weren't there
of the very
Dan: for our time.
Reegs: It I'll put you out your misery. It was tusk. He was the cinematographer on Kevin Smith's task, which was a movie we reviewed early on And we really loved
Sidey: Big fan of the pod.
Big fan of the pod.
Pete: going to ask you guys cause there was,
don't often notice things in film to do with like shots and and thing how things are lit and everything. I notice a lot more in this film, you know, in some, some of the the cuts were strange, like where I'm hoping this wasn't because my blood box was playing up or whatever, but
Reegs: no jump cuts.
Pete: yeah, it'd be like, someone
would say something, but just so
would almost be like, the so the actor would be looking directly at the cameras if they're talking to somebody, they there'd be a lot of dialogue where
mouth is is, is moving along with the words and then it would be, is that what it's called a jump cut
Reegs: Well you just, you don't, they're not reacting You can hear the dialogue, but they're not.
Pete: doing that
stuff like that, like I was hoping you guys would
Reegs: but they do other ones as well where they
Pete: about that because it's, it's
Reegs: time like where she's going to shut a door or
but she actually just kind of goes through it without even being. It's just, base all about creating mood, lots of close-ups of faces.
The child. Actors are universally brilliant including I
really wish I'd got the guy's name. It's John Jenelle something he was in when they see us, which was a terrific Ava, DuVernay, Netflix.
He, he, he was the guy who had a disability. He was the one who went to jail when
they see us, if you saw that one but in this
he played Kevin sorry He played Kevin the guy who played Kevin, the the hand job guy
Pete: handoff guy. Right.
Reegs: handoff guy Yeah.
I was trying to think of it another way to explain
who he was
Pete: job guys.
Reegs: middle hand dog
guy he was absolutely brilliant in this and he's an actor I've I've really liked before. And he was, he was
Dan: w when you say middle handheld,
Pete: So the,
the the second yeah. Yeah,
because Kevin is, is young before he's done the hand job.
And he's older after he's done the hand job, but I had a kid,
Reegs: it's So after all the nice things you've said to that we're just talking about yeah.
Dan: no, I was just wondering if there was three of them and he was the middle guy.
Pete: No, no, he's another go. Oh, so you
Reegs: That's it That's a different mood.
Pete: that didn't,
I think that was in the director's cut.
Sidey: I think we all like,
Reegs: yeah, you should watch this one. It's good.
definitely said I
would recommend this to Dan and everyone else.
Children question mark entertainment of the week.
Pete this is yours
Pete: actually, says like on Wikipedia, this is an adult. Like
Sidey: adult adult American adult fantasy. sounds like pornography to me.
Pete: What I'd done, what I'd done. What I have done is I've basically followed your,
here site and abandoned things that my kids watch.
Cause they're all GFE and started
things that I
Dan: just cause they call change their kids,
Sidey: Oh I'm going to go early and say I would rather watch anything that my kids watch over this.
Pete: Okay. That's fair enough. I imagine it depends. Cause I never really reached saturation point with the Simpsons and I probably have watched more episodes of Futurama
all bear loved the Simpsons I just, when it was on I'd watch it. I wouldn't sort of seek it out. Whereas I really enjoyed future armor And I guess this is just the next incarnation of that kind of theme. This or similar sorts of characters and it's all been done before, just not in this universe.
But the thing that drew me in as well is there's a couple of
Sidey: yeah the the voice acting talent
Pete: yes I obviously Matt Berry who we are
um fans of and also rich Fulcher, who is a producer on this is, is quite so he's quite heavily involved and he is
fucking hilarious guy who I actually met once in a bar in Brighton.
I say Matt, oh, it just went like, ah, like you're Bobby, Bob, Bob. And he acknowledged it. But yeah,
Sidey: I didn't get to meet him even though I was there.
So that times So this is a a Matt graining groaning. I don't know how we want to pronounce his name. I think it's groaning it's a Netflix commission sort of
piece for their streaming service.
So this isn't a TV traditional
Dan: I really I thought this was quite a bit older than. They had been
no It was fairly recent. There's only
three series of it,
series of 10.
it's very, very clearly the same visual style as feature as a Simpsons and the way that they're drawn, although this is more sophisticated animation in this, the actual look of the couch and everything is very clearly
Dan: and sorry.
Just, just make it clear for me. When you say three series of 10, they commissioned 10 series of this
Sidey: three series.
of 10 episodes
Pete: actually think
It's only two series where the first one was 20 episodes.
Sidey: Oh is it I thought that oh they have made that of commission series three.
Pete: Right. Yeah
Reegs: But yeah, you're right. Stylistically it's
taking on the development that there was between say Futurama and the Simpsons, like aesthetically setting it somewhere else, but also continuing to explore how they use the camera and stuff in slightly different ways that they do in those programs in the symptoms And
Sidey: but you've basically hit it on the head for how I feel about this is it's just those things set somewhere else. Pete
It's called cause I know Peter's a fan of this and maybe I just need to see more of it It's getting shit But I felt like this was really long. Nothing was funny in it.
it fucking dragged. I just didn't think, you know, when you've got something so good that you've done first, the Simpsons
can't help but compare. It it's just not funny. And
I, it just fucking
you went out for about 20 hours I
Dan: well, I, I didn't get to see the episode where a Manatee this week. I have seen this before, but it's not been one that,
is drawn me in again.
But Futurama was like that as well. For me, it, it didn't draw me in, but then when I did give it a go, I really, really enjoy future
Sidey: Yeah I'm only okay with your trauma.
there's a couple of good episodes but I don't find it a consistent hit I've got to believe with this like Matt Barry, just his quality control is just really good.
I've got to believe
Maybe I need to stick with it a bit
Pete, what do you think?
Pete: So, okay, so I've watched probably watched 17 of the 20 episodes from the first series. And and obviously it's a, it develops Matt Berry's not in it, a great deal Like his he's in most
did he play?
Pete: So he played the, the second prince,
Pete: the prince.
yeah, prince murmur and so huge spoiler in the second episodes, he gets turned into a pig.
what else would I know him from? What was his voice
Sidey: toast of London
he's just his
music. He does. He recorded
Pete: the it crowd. He's fucking brilliant in the it crowd. Yeah, he's, he's a very recognizable becoming more sort of prominent out, uh you know,
of the shores as well.
Sidey: He's got a very distinctive voice.
that he puts on It's not his actual
novice Yeah I was gonna say he does a lot
of voiceover, sort of voice acting work on adverts and stuff as well, Cause he's quite, it sounds quite poach
Pete: Yeah. He's, he's not a, you know, a main character well voice actor in this. I think he he's in he's in most episodes, but not with a significant part necessarily
I would say about both feature armor And this is, I'd say I find them more entertaining than funny. I don't necessarily find myself like, you know, pissing myself for laughter.
Reegs: a low key kind of comedy.
It's, it's it's it's not a low-key comedy. It's it's entertainment.
I find it.
Reegs: mildly mildly
Pete: I mean what I did, I did find sort of entertaining specifically about this episode, I like the like the introduction of the, like the, the, the elf world and the, so th there's a character Elfa who ends up.
Reegs: they've all got
Pete: yeah. Yeah.
are their names? There's
a word for this that I don't know, but it basically their names are what they do. Because like, I can't remember this
Reegs: they were
Sidey: alpha alpha
has the blue shirt, red trousers, which is a motif of
Pete: Right. Okay.
So yeah, so basically there's this like two worlds in, at the beginning, there's the, the world of this like kingdom of where there's like king Zog and it's a, the central character is his daughter is been she's got
a big, long name.
I don't know what her, but she's called bean basically, she's being set up with this organized weddings. She doesn't want to get married and King's dogs you know, to, to create allies with other kingdoms
to be, but brother and sister, which was sexy.
Pete: Yeah, he's, he's the the son and nephew of the king and queen Yeah. Ben rich Yeah. He has a unfortunate accident at the at the wedding. He gets impaled on like basically the, the throne from game of Thrones, it looks
so even though, and he's not dead, but he can't get married. So that's why she's going to have to marry this this brother.
quite, it's, everyone's kind of like quite sort of like moody and melancholy in this kingdom. It's not really like a load of like laughs and jokes and stuff. Whereas this other elf kingdom. He's everyone's like happy as fuck. They just basically so these that they hold their jobs all of their jobs is to make candy and they get paid in candy to make candy.
Yeah. And they're
all like happy and singing and everything all day. They even like singing They're singing about when they're gonna hang El focus, he's been touching up Kirsi
who's like the, maybe the king the elf King's daughter or something like that. So he's, he's like ostracized from this like elf community and escapes it and no one's ever left before.
So he then goes on his journeys comes across some sort of like, you know, some like giants and fighting dwarfs or whatever it is, and eventually makes his way to this kingdom.
cause he's a misfit and she's a misfit. She ends up with a demon. Somehow. I think one of the president's wedding presents is, a is a demon who then like, just
is there for like her going to be with her for eternity, almost like a
Dan: like a fairy
Reegs: godmother, on
Dan: but a demon
Pete: kind of, kind of, but he's, he's there to basically encourage her to, to like back her instincts and all her instincts are to like rebel against her dad in the kingdom and not be a princess and not behave in a, in a princessy way.
And he is very much there to encourage her to just get pissed all the time and gamble and not be a good yeah.
I mean that that's, the I mean, it was, it is long because I think it's the establishing. Episode the pilot, if you want. And he, and so it's, it is longer I think, than the other episodes They're not all that I think this one's like
Reegs: 35 minutes,
Pete: which is longer than the other episodes
Dan: that sometimes and again, just given the track record of these guys and that is facing their geniuses.
I mean, they've done the Simpsons, they'd done Futurama. This sounds like it's not really hitting the Heights to that instantly, but is it something then you think you will give it another go side
Dan: know you're done with this. This is out the door.
Sidey: I just, yeah. I
Dan: a chance
Sidey: I put it on to watch it this time And I had, I remembered I had started at a previous time and I didn't make it through all through episode one.
So I watched it off of this.
yeah, it just wasn't a hit for me. This one. No, I was disappointed with it, but then the Simpson's been blank for years, you know,
maybe all the good writing was done years and years and
Dan: It's tough to keep on
Sidey: Well don't do
Dan: the quality. Yeah,
it's a finance thing as well, I guess now, you know what I mean?
The Simpsons will always continue to be ed. I would imagine there'd always be people seeing it. It's a machine now where it's part of, you know, just television and home life. I'll put on the Simpsons. It's something to go to
Sidey: so set in the same universe as Futurama,
Reegs: is it?
Sidey: Yeah, because they look in a crystal ball and they see bender and Frye briefly Yeah.
Dan: It's all part of the multi-verse.
Pete: Yeah. And they said look you know,
it's a lot of the same voice actors and stuff. So like King's org is the guy who does Bender's voice
Futurama. I mean, I guess,
say, like it, I didn't necessarily feel that this had to be made and it's not like
in my, like top 10 of all time things similar to this or whatever, but it's like Futurama because there was more of a story with future.
army it was like, obviously it's a guy taken from like present day into the future in future armor And then it's kind of like his, his story rarely and and interactions. And I think that there's as future almost sort of gets further on there's it, it keeps, it always keeps like relating back to that like story of where he came from and, and, and so and I think there's times he goes back and everything,
this is similar in the in the sense that it's like. There's more sort of like a continual story, as opposed to like the Simpsons where it pretty much resets most episodes. There's other
themes that, that do recur, but so I guess it's, it's more, it's more entertainment than full on comedy.
But I, I guess like the familiar, I,
the sort of thing that I can ideally put on and there's, there's a lot of familiarity there because of, because of what we've just spoken about. And also the addition of like not fielding does you know, some voices and Matt Berry, there's more sort of like
that I'm familiar with from like UK stuff that that's kind of spliced with this.
So it's I I've enjoyed watching it. And I recommended it because it's something that I, think
probably worth us discussing, interested to see your viewpoints. Totally understand where you're coming from side. I know you're a massive Simpsons fan and Futurama certainly didn't hit the same Heights and this certainly won't even hit the same Heights as future armor, even.
But understand it like you're a bit possibly John this by the formula, but
Sidey: I, had joined this one. Yeah.
Reegs: Do you have to go into a lamp
thing where if you're a baby, you do.
Sidey: I was older I was 19,
Reegs: right A baker lamp
It was huge.
Dan: Jaundice a few times.
such a show,
Dan: It's just when you're a bit of color, isn't it?
in the Simpsons they've got
Dan: one of the things that made me think about this this actually, when you said it's, you know, it's not for kids other ones, other cartoons that I've seen that I've thought about, where would you wage that in the, in the pod, but a brick and mortar.
Reegs: I love
Dan: That's a really good cartoon. Have you seen it? Cause it's the multi-verse again, it plays in and around and cartoons can do things
Pete: Lots of things about
Dan: okay. See,
Reegs: he asks all these weird existential
questions is good. Yeah.
Dan: Really crazy, you know, kick ass kind of way. It's maybe one I'll put up for the pod at a point,
Pete: You've not really offered anything.
Reegs: well because right I've tried
really hard with this program. Well, I'd watched it this episode or started it when it first came out because it was kind of a big fanfare, a new Mac groaning thing. I'd had the experience that you'd had, where I enjoyed the sin love the Simpsons then feature armor came along and I didn't initially really connect with it, but over time kind of enjoyed the characters and the, you know, it was different, but I enjoyed it.
So then it came to big announcement, new Mac graining thing. And I watched it and I was bored after about 10 minutes, I switched it off. And then you asked us to watch it for the pod, and I knew that you really liked it. So I was like, I'm going
Pete: really light to it. so I
find it entertaining and I do watch it.
It's not something that
just recommended it because I, th the, the, the
other things that, that my children are watching now, would have gone down like a shit sandwich. So so I thought I'd watch something that I thought maybe was going to be more in the sphere of things that we, you might enjoy you
Reegs: No I didn't, I didn't, I watched all of this one and it's a difficult first episode. There's a lot of shit to set up. And, and then some of it feels familiar because the animation, you know, it's so easy to just go it's a future. I'm a bit in medieval
setting and then all the voice actors, not all, but some of the voice actors, the, some very distinctive ones are the same between it.
And I didn't connect at all with the first episode. So I thought, right well, let's try the second one and see what happens. And I watched that one as well. No, it just, yeah, it's not, for me. There's not enough jokes basically. It's like not really the, the spot in my life for kind of mildly entertaining sitcom is taken up by Brooklyn nine, nine at the moment.
That's my, when I want to watch mildly entertaining
Sidey: Yeah I would agree with that it's not funny. So I don't know what it is supposed to be. But that's fine. I didn't like it. Pete Desi shame.
But you know, Pete's not really funny. So
Pete: No. Yeah.
Although Riggs did get his mate to make us watch slammin salmon So he's been the biggest pro this
Sidey: right Yeah. Massive,
was cool. Then a big, big hit with a movie. Not such a big hit with the kid's TV this week but at least we got one solid nomination for you. Rigs I think you've got some nominations for next time.
Reegs: Yes, I do. I'm going with star? dust the David Bowie? No, I'm not. I'm not
but wouldn't that be laws
if I did no going for the top five movie cats.
Then I'm going for the
movie cats. Wow. And then I'm going for Gabby's doll house. I don't know which episode does it really matter? I'll find one. I'll I'll
Sidey: get us
Reegs: recommended to us.
Netflix. Don't worry about it. Also if I've got a request. bizarre one, if it can, I
need to listen to five or six songs from Gabby's dollhouse And just to give you a review on that as well.
Sidey: Okay, cool. But midweek or we've got a listener, another listener, of course. Cause that was a huge hit this
Reegs: week. Yeah Yeah Well we salvaging this time.
Sidey: Strictly ballroom.
This has been, somebody has
Reegs: a campaign
Sidey: of pressure on
Pete: This is the film.
This is a film about a place where there's only room for my balls.
Sidey: Yeah Yes.
VMC has been giving us NEF grief about not watching this. So yeah, we're doing it this week.
Reegs: The Do remember top five? Do try and cram home alone in there somewhere
Sidey: And also good fellows Cause we didn't put that
Sidey: and this
feels like a crime.
That's cool. So com hit us up on Twitter at dad's underscore film and we have a website and I've written a blog.
been a little
while So that'll be coming out. I'll drop that online sometime this week.
I've mate. Yeah, no, it's busy, busy
all that remains is to say Saudi signing out
Dan: that is gone.