May 28, 2021

Whiplash & How to Train Your Dragon - Legends

Whiplash & How to Train Your Dragon - Legends
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If you have a car and a child, you will be painfully aware that even with the very best intentions it won't be long before the interior of your vehicle is a hoarder’s paradise. Assuming of course that the hoarder in question's idea of paradise includes odd socks, miscellaneous toys, hairbands, half eaten dried fruit and flakes of excrement. I've long worried/fantasised that some of this detritus, a stray water bottle or plastic horse toy say, will somehow become lodged under the brake pedal as I drive, forcing me off or into the nearest hazard, resulting in a gloriously high fall or the satisfying and punishing brutality of ploughing straight into a wall at great speed. Preferably after careening through a home for rescue dogs or an orphanage.  Anyway, it was almost certainly these completely normal thoughts which prompted Dan to pick Motor Vehicle Accidents for this week’s Top 5.
Remember when we reviewed Damian Chazelle's sophomore feature LA LA LAND back in the days of Anonymous Meeg? Of course you don't. This time we thought we'd try the 36-year-old screenwriter, director and producers’ debut, WHIPLASH (Chazelle's that is, Meeg is both older and as of the time of writing has not written and directed a movie).  Jonathan Kimble Simmons (JK Rowling) delivers a career defining performance as Terence Fletcher, the psychotic music teacher at the fictional Schaffer Conservatory who pushes Miles Teller's Andrew to realise his true potential as a jazz drummer through whatever means necessary. An exhilarating and thought-provoking examination of what it means to be truly exceptional at something and whether it's worth the costs, Simmons and Chazelle have together crazy created one of cinema's truly iconic villains in this blistering and breath-taking award winner.
Loosely based on novels by British author Cressida Cowell, the HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON franchise is 12th in the list of highest grossing animated films, racking up a cool $1.6 billion worldwide over 3 cinema releases. The movies follow the adventures of Hiccup and Toothless as a Viking and a Dragon respectively, I won't ruin it by telling you who trains whom. Amazingly one of the dads had never seen this so we were eased in gently, like a child gradually sticking a big toe into a chilly pool or that time I eased myself gently into your mothers hoop with Netflix's HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON - LEGENDS, an animated series of short films continuing the plot of the first movie. GIFT OF THE NIGHT FURY is set during the festival of Snoggletog and sees the Dragons suddenly incredibly horny.

We love to hear from our listeners! By which I mean we tolerate it. Try us on twitter @dads_film, on Facebook Bad Dads Film Review or on our website

Until next time, we remain...

Bad Dads




Reegs:Welcome to bad. Dad's film review the film review podcasts with taste, except it's the taste that you get when you swap from using an anal thermometer to an oral one. There's a trio of idiots here this week. Sidey Dan and myself rigs. We'll be discussing the top five movie car crashes. Our main feature is Damien shes.

L's 2014. Yeah. A movie whiplash. And we finish up this week with a look at spin off animation. How to train your dragon legends. Now regular listeners will have heard Dan and Peter Andre's origin stories recently, and are no doubt interested in hearing the same for Sidey. I think we all are. Well, let me tell you, ladies and gentlemen.

His heritage is still shrouded in mystery. Despite my hardest efforts, speaking to friends and family, following him when he didn't know copious amounts of time spent on the internet researching sometimes even about Sidey that none of this turned up anything in the man himself is still strangely reticent to reveal all.

So I hired a private detective to follow him and see what you could find in retrospect, hiring a detective because his name was Sherlock Holmes , and he advertised himself as the Turkeli awesome. Detective was probably a bad idea, but how could I really know? Anyway, he's drip feeding me information as he finds it.

So I'll reveal bits and pieces about Sidey as I have them this week I found out that you were dishonorably discharged from the salvation army and you spent a month working for a wealthy man as a piece of living human furniture.

Sidey:good honest

Reegs:Yeah. So this is, it's still, it paints the

Dan:it's just a snippet. Isn't it? It's just a snippet

of what's behind the


Sidey:your appetite a little bit more

Dan:good, good

week watching movie.

Reegs:I have, because I watched Zack Snyder's army of the dead and I did really enjoy it. It's terrific. If, if the premise about having to go and see go and do a heist in the middle of Las Vegas, which is populated by zombies.

If that's a premise that gets you going, this is a movie

Dan:actually quite annoyed me. I, it made me think, why do you want money?

Reegs:It's not a complete catastrophe. It's kind of just Las Vegas. That's been kind of walled in with the zombies. Yeah.

Dan:other places.

Reegs:Yeah. Yeah, it's weird. It's one of those, I mean, Zack Snyder now his visual style is so distinct and his music cues are so like obvious, like

sledgehammering the obvious, but the stuff he puts on screen is cool. There's a zombie tiger for Christ sakes. And you've got Dave Battista. He's like a six foot, six guy. Absolutely enormous. Like he's got these tiny glasses on that make him look like a complete nerd. And he's like stabbing his wife in the head with a, you know, I mean, it's just, flat-out bonkers zombie stuff.

Dan:Yep. Good old

family fun. Okay. Yeah, I watched, 'em. I started to watch

Brittania, which is a

series on sky Lord of the rings meets Some other kind of epic

Game of Thrones, the Romans.


Reegs:What is it? Fantasy stuff

Dan:it is kind of it's magical stuff. Really it's about the

Druids and the Romans, but it does go into

like black magic

and things like that.

It started

really well actually. So watching that,

and I also watched creation stories,

which was the story of Alan McGee, the guy found a

Twan will screen. Mary loves

China, I think. Is it

Sidey:Jesus and Mary chain.


Dan:I know.

Reegs:Peter Andre was talking about

Dan:Yeah. And it was, yeah, Peter, Andre was talking about it. So the guy who founded

or found a whitest as well, managed your voices. And it was a really interesting story from Spud, from,


I enjoyed that. Yeah.

Reegs:What's been going down in the sidewall house.

Sidey:Well, I watched all of this week stuff, unlike some, so I had less time to devote to my own viewing pleasures, but I did put on army of the dead and turned off after 10 minutes.

I thought it was shy.

Dan:Oh, Mia did

Sidey:The one that you just went

Dan:Oh, that one. Yeah. Yeah, right.

Sidey:I don't like Zack Snyder. So I think I went into it negatively. So I'd probably try it again. Cause I do like

Dan:do a lot for me, to be honest, Cause he did

the justice league

thing, didn't he did a, different


Reegs:man of steel is brilliant. And I really liked soccer punch there. I said it and watch men is amazing as well. Yeah. Yeah.

Sidey:I that's what it is. That's what it all boils down to. So I watched that didn't didn't see much out, but I did just catch the trailers evening for last night in Soho at gay rights film was going to be out in October. It looks fucking great.

Reegs:are still not complete. I mean, the trail is good, right? Because you still don't really understand what's happening.

There's a hint of like some sort of time travel, lead type something, or rather, and a bit Horry, but you'd still don't really know what it's about

Sidey:No idea. It was great.

Also there was the trailer for the Eternals, which

Dan:is that this superhero

Sidey:it's the sort of next phase of the Marvel. Now that they've completed the infinity saga, they've obviously kicking off a whole lot of new characters, some of which I'm really excited for the martial arts Kung Fu movie look great. This one needs see a bit more to get me interested. Cause it was well, they gave nothing away.

Let's put it that way, but also they're kind of characters that no one knows. So you don't you're not really got a nostalgia. I've got into it. This is like completely fresh. And you'd be like by the traitors kosher, just one for nomad land. So

Reegs:The director's a really interesting choice because she's like the complete antithesis of the whole Marvel superhero thing. So it is an interesting choice. I dunno, you've got to have your faith in Marvel really they've rarely put a foot wrong and had it go. I wonder if this is going to be kind of like a platform to actually introduce individual characters later on that are more recognizable rather

Dan:Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what

they do because the big characters have been taken

Sidey:played all their Trump cards early. Really? I suppose they had to, to generate


think this is pretty nerdy, but I think in the comics there's, or there's certainly some speculation that they're going to be in some way, partly responsible for bringing mutants into the

universe, which will be really cool because if they can launch properly, you know, X, men and stuff like that off the back of this.

That could be something

Dan:Yeah. I'm sure they will. If

there's a buck, to be made, What was interesting as well that I read was

who's going to be the new Highlander.

Reegs:Who's it going to be?


you don't know? how favorite, our favorite Jersey actor.

Reegs:capital, is it?

Dan:Yeah. Henry Cavill is going to, be the only one. There can only

be one.

So he said he was a massive island defined

as a UW And now he's taken it on


a director who really gets to explore this whole franchise really


the backstories.

and everything else.

And Yeah. So I think that could work quite well He's in the Witcher. He loves a sword


I'm looking forward to that and he's also doing in NOLA homes too,

Which I thought he didn't make a bad Sherlock.

So I'll be interested to see that again as well.

Sidey:Has he been canned from save man? Is it lost that gig?


think it's just, I don't think they're making any more Zack Snyder, like at all that universe of stuff anymore. I think the flash movie is going to kind of reset everything and then you've got Matt Reeves is Batman.

Sidey:Oh man, that's gonna be good.

So anyway, we had a top five last week about ice cream and Mel nominated diary of a wimpy kid dog days.

Dan:My daughter loves this. Yeah. I think there's a scene with an ice cream They will share or

Sidey:the whole family has to go on this one. I asked him so that's going in?

Reegs:Maybe we should watch one of those




Yeah. They're big in the book's



that. They're


 Sidey:Write down you plotted long and hard. And there was a whole lot of strategizing about this week's

Dan:Always his side, always as you know me. Well, and I went for

I know I'm

going to open this wide out

to stunts crashes accidents. Involving motor vehicles. So if, if you can work within those parameters,

then I'm sure we'll

get plenty to talk

Sidey:I've got a sub list

Dan:Oh, nice.

Sidey:to start you off.

It's the top 10 movie. Let's start that again. Top 10 cars destroyed in a movie,

Reegs:What Le which counting down from 10 to one, one has the

Sidey:we'll just shout some names out what'd you think is going to go in there

Reegs:Fast and furious. One of them has got to be in there.

Sidey:fast and furious five. They destroyed 250 cars. That's number three on the list.

the franchise

in Terrell has done over a thousand,

Reegs:blues brothers.

Dan:Isn't it.

Sidey:Yeah. Blues brothers is eight and seven, 1998. Original had 104 cars destroyed the remake. They did 105.

Dan:just to say

Reegs:Did they do just one more just to say the distribute a bullet.

Sidey:Yeah, but it's at number 10 with 85

then you've got the junk man, which is 150,004.

I'd never heard of that. So I don't think gone in 60 seconds, you're making a cage

Reegs:or is it the original? Cause there's a, there is an original, which I've never seen either. Isn't it?

Sidey:Well, it's it. Number nine is with 90 cars. Let's do

 good. There's a diehard one. A good day.

Reegs:Michael bay must be in there

Sidey:He's in a number one, but which, which film?

Reegs:there'll be one of the fucking transformers

Sidey:transformers? Which one.

What if it was

Reegs:one has the most. Cause he just reused a lot of shit. I dunno.

Sidey:one, it was number three 532 cars destroyed in the making of that film. Wow. Is this the matrix related was a number two with around 300.

Dan:As many as that in that bloody hell. There's all these tricks that



things do.

So they don't trash the best cars.

And then they'll cut and they would just put

in a,

you know, a shell of a of a

Reegs:it's a Lamborghini and then it gets hit and it turns into a Pinto and then it gets blown up. And then it's a Lamborghini.

Dan:also worth

pointing out. Some of these are actual metal on metal crashes, but a lot now

a CGI. And yeah, obviously that's

a lot safer.

You can do

explosions and all the rest of it. But I think, you know, like any of these films, when they

lay, lay it out, you've got one take

to do this, it just makes it a bit more exciting. And, you

Reegs:well, I like the planning that goes into a physical scene and the guys who were predicting where, you know, this is where you've got to put a camera because at that speed and this angle and this force upon it, you know, I love all that planning and all that stuff.

there. I'm not saying the artist exactly. The stunt driver, the storyboarding, everything. It's not that the artistry is not there in, in CGI because it is, but it's, it is different. It's a different labor.


Reegs:I've got a sub list of car crashes as well, which is the sort of, you didn't see that coming car crash.

Dan:Well, this is, this is part of

what attracted me to this actually is that it's been used in films so many different


You can you can just be, everything's going along

swimmingly and Boom.

you know, something can, can just happen. It can be one though. See you expecting it to happen it's going to happen at any time.

They're in a car driving really fast and, you know, some has gone and there's so many different

ways that big kind of Mo crashes and, and. freeways And all the way it can be used in a movie, and in a film


Reegs:shots that they ever used to reveal it. Right. So there's the profile shot of the driver.

And something from blurry comes out really quickly and hits inside or its head on that's the only like looking into the, the, you know, that's the only way that they, they have an hit from behind or from the front and. But in the good movies, you can never see this one coming. There's a good one in the movie that we're going to talk about tonight.

Whiplash. There's a really good one, obviously in no country for old men, right? At the end of no country for old men Anton Chigurh he's killed everyone. He set off for Mexico to track down the some stolen money, which is a movie I would have loved to have seen him to do that. And then he's hit by another car completely out of nowhere breaks his arm.

Dan:So young Cyclists come along,

There's two young

lads in the

back. He's watching them in the mirror. I think, just go, and watch where they're going? When this

Reegs:car just sideswiped?

Dan:just Absolutely

comes through the sides.

Reegs:There's another really good one like that in adaptation. Anybody

Sidey:Yeah. So I've got on my list.

Yeah. Chris Cooper backing out of the drive that was set up because he, he dishes out some news and then the old site. Oh, I'm so happy. I'm so proud. She's proud of you. He's like, it's too perfect. And then you get that, like you say, the side of the shot and you just see it kind of whacking it's fucking,

Reegs:It's pretty cool. And it's you know, it helps to humanize his character because he's basically a real asshole in the, in the movie. So

Dan:yeah, the voice, but that's

no country for old men. That's a good place to start really, because I think that was such a fantastic move and it was white at the end, it

wasn't one of those that you needed it to happen before, You know, it's right in this, this car crash? And it's that moment where you know, it, it can happen at anytime to anyone, you know,

I think that's, that's what he

captures there. You're just cruising along. Boom taken out, of course he's broken his arm, Does any, I think he swaps a, a t-shirt or


It gives him some money so he can wrap it around and He wanders on,

on his way.

Again, that's a crazy movie. I need

to revisit I've seen it

once. When it first came out and really enjoyed it

Sidey:really polarized people. The ending though, isn't it? When it finishes.

Dan:Yeah, I did.

Okay. Well, that's, that's

one. Definitely. I had on my list

as well.

And the other one we should probably just get out the, way is the, elephant in the room?

And we had a little chat about it before bullet,


a fantastic movie. I mean it's Steve McQueen


guy in

film, in cinema

Loved his


Reegs:uh Bucket, the bracing bucket seat.

Sidey:Good bucket suit style.

Dan:Well he loved cars. He


Dan:was a rev head. And so this was his

dream film. bullet.

Reegs:Yeah. It's not very good as we sort of, as we said earlier, though, it's got some pretty good car chases in a fucking kick-ass soundtrack by Lalo Schifrin. And like you say, Steve McQueen effortlessly cool, but not a particularly good movie bullet.

Dan:well, this was often referenced as the first big car

chase. And you know, he's going along in his, his fast car. It's about 10 minutes this scene,

you know,

so it that's a lot of action,

a lot of

pace to go through.

Of course he does it himself. Because he's Steve McQueen

and he loves driving

fast. So that just made it cooler.

you know,

the fact that he hasn't gone on to. Mean, have you seen Lamar

66 as well?

So that, that's another, that's another good movie based on Steve, McQueen that one as well, but it gets up to like 110 miles an


which is crazy going along in those, in those

cars It, can you imagine directors nowadays


Dan:an actor getting in a


Reegs:the insurance wouldn't let you do it.

Dan:goes, no, not going Anywhere like that.

So you know, this blue

quakes in audiences

away when it came in

1968, and

it's still in any of the lists you had looked at, I looked at and we have been on the bullet gets mentioned if it's not number one, it's in the top 10,

Reegs:but what specifically was the car crash? I was trying to remember this in, because obviously I remember the iconic long chase and then it, the winding roads that they're on and the, and

Sidey:San Francisco.

Reegs:yeah, it was

Dan:San Francisco

Reegs:and there's a crash at the end.

Is there a couldn't remember,

Sidey:cars are destroyed in it, so

go through them all. I am gonna mention death proof is Turntine


Sidey:Kurt Russell drives a car and

Reegs:but it's Terentino's half of the Grindhouse project. So planet terror by Robert Rodriguez was the other one,

Sidey:It's the whole premise is Kurt. Russell is in a car and he crashes in things. This particular crash the opposition car is full of really quite attractive young ladies. One is driving, obviously one is just sort of reclining in the front seat with her leg.

Out of the window. And there's a couple of girls in the back, current roster bombs past him and then turns his car around, but he's got his lights off and it's dark and then he just fucking lines them up and he just goes out and fucking floors it, head on collision incoming. And just at the last second, he turns on his lights and they see him.

And he fucking smashes into this car

Reegs:It's just horrific,

Sidey:it repeats cause you see what happens to each of the girls. So one fucking just hosts out the window, goes miles in the air and lands on the deck. The girl sitting with her leg, dangling, you just see this leg, get fucking ripped off. And then it just flops onto the floor, blood , everywhere.

Then the girl in the back it's fucking gratuitous. He sort of, as the impact, he then goes up and drives across the rest of the car. And you just get the shot of the wheel wheel spinning on a face, taking all the skin off her face. It's fucking brutal.

Reegs:is absolutely brutal. Wow. And it's, it's clever though, this movie, because it sets up the beginning of the movie, like a, like a horror movie. So they girls go out and they smoke weed and drink and she gives a provocative dance to stump Mike, the who's, the got the scar on his face and all that.

So, but then you've got one of the group butterfly, I think her name is she's a bit virginal. So she's being, and she turns down a date. Who's like trying to have sex with her. And she doesn't drink, I don't think as well. So she's being set up and then they mentioned they're going out to this cabin.

So it's almost being set up like this horror movie. And then this scene happens out of nowhere and I think it's butterfly gets the fucking wheel to the face or whatever. Like, so it's just absolutely. So, but then it sets up the second half of the movie, which is this unbelievable performance from Zoey bell, who is the stunt women who played the bride in kill bill.

She does this unbelievable scene where she's like tied to the front of the car basically is as it's driving. It's it's an incredible scene that that's what the movie sets up the second half. So I really liked death brief. It's another one where most people say that the planet terror is probably the better of the two, but I prefer death proof.

Sidey:Oh, that's because, I mean, it's so different daft. Yeah, you should definitely Jason. I mean, it's crazy. It's fucking crazy.

Dan:Is that coming back around

to me again? Or have you got one

there weeks?

Reegs:Well, I just blathered on about that as well. So

Dan:my friend oh, go onto  

little Knights, the ballot of Ricky, Bobby,

I love the title.

The ballad of Ricky Bobby.

So this is where feral, maybe it is best. And

he, he plays like a,


psychotic macho American

car racing

NASCAR driver. And it just kind of follows

the rise and

fall of him his best friend. And and rival John C. Riley they're racing around

the track

There's plenty of crashes and things, but. This has got lots of laughs in it.

This, this was one where

will fell down anchorman. He'd done this It done an ice skate in one as well. Blades of steel,

was blaze of glory blazers, still really three fantastically, funny

Sidey:Best of all you haven't mentioned is the other guys,

Dan:the other guys I never got on Well,

Sidey:Oh, I love

Dan:It was okay. It

Sidey:that's the

Dan:okay. but yeah, I mean, that's it, he's got lots of great films and some of the other ones I haven't

mentioned a

fantastic as well. He hasn't got a all right. This had Sasha

Baron Cohen in his as a snotty French guy who was a NASCAR driver as well. And it plays between,

the top man Cocker to walk. a, a, I've got it all to utter humiliation within. A few scenes  Yeah,

I, I really liked this one as well.

 Sidey:Let's go for Christopher Nolan joined the dark night cause she likes to keep all his stunts  as practical effects rather than CGI in it. Or so in this one, you've got a really great chase where there's the massive

Dan:you say the truck,

Yeah. Yeah. The big truck.

Sidey:Batman goes around and he sets a load of wires out

Dan:around the

Sidey:and eventually

Dan:There's somebody

Sidey:causes it to flip, I would love to see this in an IMAX to see what it was really mentored it like this epic shot of the thing go right the way up in some sort and then fucking slamming down on the

Dan:love to have seen it

actually on the day That is a practical

Sidey:Just the fact that they really did that to it.

Reegs:It's behind the scenes footage, but you know, so you can watch some of that stuff, but it never looks

Dan:No I mean, it just, must have been mad on the day, as you say, we chatted about at the top of this, you know, the practical affects against

CGI, you

know, the, why would somebody like Christopher Nolan do that?

He's obviously got the best access to the best CGI and it's not, you're not looking at anything too crazy in in the flipping of a truck that they couldn't do it. But I think maybe just for authenticity and and there's something in that, you can't, you know, you can get it close, but you can't get it.

Perfect. And for a perfectionist like him, I guess he he's looking for that reality.

Sidey:I like the way it kind of goes quiet as it's about to go, because it would be, and then obviously you got the big crash and it's fucking cool. Yeah. And plus it's just a fucking awesome film.


Dan:It is an awesome film. So that was the second one.

Wasn't it?


Reegs:David Cronenberg's impossibly horny crash film follows James Spader and Deborah Carra UNGA as people who can sort of get there. Cakes from a variety of weird sexual things. The movie opens with Debra Karanga in a hanger, rubbing her nipple against an airplane while some dude licks our ass.

And you can imagine where it goes from there, which is a, they get into a dangerous underground subculture of crashing cars and then having sex. Yeah.

Yeah. And there's one particular good one where Elias Cotinus which I always think of him as being the guy, the baseball bat, wielding guy out of ninja turtles, you know, with the hockey mask, you know,



Reegs:He was their mate.

He was, had a hockey mask on if you'd know, do email in and let us know whatever our email address is.

Dan:Oh PO

Sidey:I thought I needed to tell it was quite well, but I can't think of

Reegs:He was there mate. He was a lunatic with a baseball bat in the movie. And he wore a hockey mask and like hockey pads and stuff. Anyway, I'm probably spending anyway. So he sets up this scene where they recreate the death of James Dean.

And there's like, these stands set up. What do the Americans call it? Is it bleaches? Is that what they call them? There's like stands where, and there's like loads of couples just watching them recreate this death scene with a stunt man and a ninja turtle guy. And then the police come break it all up, but it's a really good movie.

Watch it Cronenberg's crash.

Dan:Why? Well I'm gonna go in a similar vein it's Groundhog day

where Phil takes the Groundhog off a cliff. On one of the many deaths that he does as he finds

his way to survive in the world of Groundhog. Do you


Reegs:that? It's a good one. I watched it today.

What's really good about it is it goes off and it's, it's almost in slow motion as it goes,

Dan:Massive cliff


quarry kind of lands with.


and it doesn't blow up for a second. It does blow up, but it just for a second, it just leaves it there just

Dan:timing off the

camera guy who's filming it all to say it

might be okay.

And then he explosion hits and it's he's obviously not going to be okay, but he is cause it's Groundhog day.

Reegs:Yeah. I thought the, the polar opposite to that one is at the end of jewel where the truck cause it's got flammable.

Sidey:because I've not seen this yet.



seen Juul. out for 40 years. How can you, how can you spoil the ending of a film That's been out for Oh, well?

Reegs:all right, well, that's going to have to be mid-week mentioned or

Dan:Yeah. There's there's a


Dan:as a big song and dance

at the end. There'll be some musical

Sidey:I love the musical terminate to on judgment day. The chase scene with Arnie on his Harley, like shotgunning,


Sidey:guys is fucking cool, being traced, being chased by that fucking big rig.

And if thinks he's kind of got away with it and just takes a moment to sit and look back, what are those things? They floods. not just not a sewer, is it? It's like a flood thing


So they're on the lower level, obviously the lorries on the top and they think they're gonna get away with it.

And it just comes fucking heroin over the top smashes through the barrier and down, and the trace continues. So that bit was cool as a car crash, but also then he ends up. Blowing it up, it slammed into the middle of a barrier. And yeah, it does. And this is where you get to see that there's no stopping this Terminator.

It's liquid metal comes out, just walks out. If that looks a bit sort of dated now it

Dan:oh, it didn't at the time. though. and I still, I still look at it with those kind of eyes when I watched that film because I don't judge it with CGI and technology that we have access to today. I just think that was the most awesome fucking thing I'd ever


T two, when it came out.

and I couldn't believe that

little shit was going to give Ani any problem until he started going. metal man and metal hands and sharp knives and shit, and he could do all the voices and no Tommy's here.

Bernie Burke now is like, that's not my dog. No, your parents

are dead. Let's get out of here.

Sidey:It's great. It's absolutely great.

That explosion. So seeing as code, but the one where it powers off the bridge and joins him down, it dies. It's a fucking money shot.

Reegs:Ferris, Bueller,

Dan:Yeah I I never mentioned this because I knew society would have that reaction.

Reegs:No, no, but it's a good one. Isn't it? It's he kicks the block away is they're rewinding it. They're trying to,

Dan:It's one of those ones

that you just think, he, they think that by

reversing and

just letting them run in reverse for about 10 hours, we'll take the the models off the clock


Reegs:that's not true.

Is it by the way that cannot be true.

Dan:I don't think it is that easy actually, you know, and they start to prove that when they kick

the block off,

straight through to garish down the hill in the gutter,

Reegs:it's his love. It's his passion. He spent three years restoring it. It's a good one. The one take crashing casino Royale where it's just spinning and spinning and spinning it. Subset of Guinness world record for number of most Canon


Reegs:in a car. And it was an actual Aston Martin that they used in it.

There was some prototype DB nines that were kept by the factory. So they did actually use it. It's a really good scene with a different drink, drink between spinning and what's her name is what's her name? She got a silly name, like smell it, you know, fucking

Sidey:Oh no, it's Vesper. Lynd.

Reegs:Vesper. Lynd. Yeah.

Sidey:No, that's silly.

Reegs:No, it's not, but there's no Percy galore. Is it?

Dan:Portugal Or we watched this clip just before. I know

that you're probably gonna

bring it around to mention it

but I mean, a nip

in there first. Final destination too. So

is this,

this is just, it's a

beginning of the film, isn't it? And they're, they're all going down for a bit of a summer break

or a

holiday or whatever doing follows

a couple of different people in, in cars and things.


Reegs:Wait, so wait. So it's suggesting things, isn't it. So there's a cop driving and he's got a cup of coffee and you're like, Ooh, you see the, get half of that. And there's a guy like

Dan:stung on it, you

Reegs:is a guy he's driving it. Then he sort of has a little tote of something as he throw you, like what's going over there then did something rattles, a chain rattles here and


Death is, is

Reegs:in the air

Dan:the air and finding a way to have a


pile up on the motorway.


this, this will make you think twice before going on a big drive Have you ever been on those big motorways and things.

Yeah. I mean, I've driven down from Germany and done the the auto bond.

and, and that kind of thing. which is no, there's no,

Reegs:Agreed, agreed.

Dan:there's not. I've probably got one but car ponds are exhausting. I'm not going to, bother with them. but


just going along it's absolutely. You can see this kind of scene happening, you know, that there was just,

Reegs:I hope not. This was

Sidey:I nearly caused one, but the first time we went over to In the mainland, the big, yeah, the big smoke for a wedding. And it was the first time that I'd hired a car and driven on the motorway. So it took me ages to get going.

Cause I was driving with the handbrake on and then the first time on the, my way, I just indicated and went and there's a fucking car coming into the lane. It was yeah, and we were in a bit of a convoy. So some of the other lads see me or piss themselves in the end we did make it to our destination.

No speeding tickets. No one died, nothing like that, but it was fucking hairy. But I think when people come here, they get freaked out. By how close you are to like granite walls and shit all the

Dan:how slow, you know, you're going 20, 30 miles an hour. In most areas

in Jersey, you might go up to 35, 40, but only on a

couple of stretches of road.

So when you do go over to the UK or France or

Europe and things, it takes me a

little while to get. Up

to the speed of things literally, because you're, you

know, you're going 50 and you feel like whoa, gonna slow down. cars, gonna rat, you know, And then everybody flying by you. And when you, you see somebody's grandmother go by you know, you're like, I need to put the foot down

Reegs:is okay. Cause in-between stuff there's nothing around. Is it? You just put your foot down can go and

then like roads are pretty straight

Dan:but there's always someone driving faster. But that final destination to that was a hell of a scene. because everything

Reegs:mentioned the like logs that come out and smash people up and

Sidey:That's what happened to what's his name from a lower, low Yeah.


go ahead. Something crashed to his windscreen and whacked him in the head nearly killed him.

Reegs:I want to say Gordon K.

Sidey:you're right. You'd be right to say that JK

Reegs:I meant that because they was there was a picture of him in hospital and he was like, you know, and then

Sidey:massive, great big hole. It is dead now that, than it breaks your heart.


Well, any more

any more nice news you.

carry on Jared's

Sidey:Toy story two the toys all have to cross the road to get to Al's toy barn. And they disguised themselves with traffic cones causing a great big up much like final destination to in actual fact. And then we always talk about these filmmaking sort of visual style of the Bourne ultimatum, but they do car chases and crashes very well.

The Bourne ultimatum has. Jason Bourne just crashing his car. It's various things trying to make his

Reegs:the one in the mini.

Sidey:No that's identity. That's really cool. But this one, he is being chased by innovative commerce, the asset. While he's crashing into things left right center, eventually they sort of find their way into a tunnel and Born's cars are lifted into the central reservation.

Ben is just grinding along like a kind of skateboarding move to that, eventually smashes into the wall, but it kind of spins round the sound out of thing. Like the way it sounds is fucking great. And he is able to sort of get out of the car, but the other guys, the asset is sort of slumped over the steering wheel and bones got him, he's got his gun on him you know, what's he gonna do?

And he, he lowers the gun, even though this guy would have fucking killed him and will still kill him if he gets off the charts, but he's not, you know, he know he's not a complete, just Hitman all the time. The fight scenes in these, I find it quite hard to follow, but this was the car stuff is a lot clearer and a lot better, I think.


Dan:Did you see

the the kind of call

that Yoda Yoda's driving



No. Didn't get that one. Well I you know, there's that car that apple made no windows, but the, the lower low guy,

there was the other person

in in a movie,

lost his arm, left arm and his left He's all white. Now

okay. I'll leave it be I'll leave it be. And What you

got weeks,

Reegs:I've got a couple of mad max entries for you mad max to the road warrior in the climax where the heavily wounded max has escaped from Lord humongous. It is compound. In a stolen armored fuel tanker, and then Vernon Wells is psychotic where's is sort of up on the, the tanker and he's killed when the truck crashes into humongous is sort of off-road sand buggy thing, and it explodes into a billion pieces.

And then the ending of Madam, well, not the ending, but in mad max fury road where knucks his death scene, basically Nicholas Holt's sort of redemptive character. Uncouples the what the tribe of the milk, the milk ladies. Yeah. And in this crazy movie, and then the guy rips out the engine from the truck and it just explodes into the train behind it.

And duke goes flying with the guitar. It's just an incredible scene. Credible movie, a very cross John McCrae McLean. Throws a police car at a helicopter in live free or die hard. Wait, cause he didn't have any more bullets. Yeah.



Dan:Well yeah, I've got a couple more

one, one the man.


Dan:Did You get that one

was you know, loads of car chases in the James Bond franchise, but



while Jamal, He does this kind of corkscrew job.

Sidey:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dan:and it was done with eight cameras and pulled off in the first take.

So It was a real deal one. It was, it was one of those where

Sidey:very cool.

Dan:go and

Loads of miles an hour and then they, S.

Sidey:yeah, I remember that one. Yeah, it was great.

Dan:Fantastic. Yeah.

Sidey:I've got another

Dan:it first time.

imagine that though. You're like,

you're the stump, man. you go,

look we're in all day. We're going to settle down. He knows it within 30

Reegs:Well, to be fair

Dan:we've got the rest of the day. Do what we like. Then

Reegs:to be fair though. If they've worked it all out, if I'm going this speed and that's at that angle and you know,

Sidey:people die

Reegs:we should to go and try it outside.

It can't be that

Dan:be that hard.


Reegs:what I'm saying, basically.

Dan:How hard can it be? I've got another one where people say They're sorry, not sorry. And They rolled a monster truck over you. That's in Roadhouse.

Sidey:I've seen that

Dan:you know what I'm saying? the Patrick Swayze love, hate

broken furniture, monster trucks. He's got everything.

Reegs:He's a bouncer.

Dan:is He he's a he plays Dolton is Basically a doctor, he's got a PhD. He's, he's an old spiritual guide. But he decides

he wants to be a bouncer in a nightclub.

So that's what he goes to, but he also wants to live in a clean town. So when he's kind of the hard man

of Ben

Gazzara, which is the Navy active all over then the, that the character, I can't remember.

He, he is just got this guys roller is it called dealership and he owns this town and this guy's not paying him in money or he's not paying him enough respect. So he gets a monster truck just to roll over his entire car lot while Patrick Swayze, just hangs around, looking hard and beautiful in case he's called

into action.

Reegs:What's his hair like

Dan:oh, it's really good

Really strong hair game he's kind of the half Mollett If you know what I mean, he's got that.

Reegs:More than the bottom.


both. Both is bushy is

he, you know, not pat.

sharp? No, no, It's not quite

as, as mullet is that, but it's is strong, strong as hell going.

But Swayze's in two minds after this way he wants to be, does he want to be with the, also rose monster trucks over people's

called dealerships or does he want to rise above that?

And and when the girl who also wants to rise above that,

sorry, if

you haven't seen it I'm not going to tell you

what happens.

Sidey:I've got another bond, one for us, it's the living daylights, which has the best bond, Timothy Dalton. He drives his Aston Martin.

Dan:Timothy. The best bond again.

Sidey:Just the films and his performance, and I'm not tall to saying it's troll Pete.

His estimate has a few optional extras. First of all, they're being chased by the enemy police vehicle. He has lasers that come out of the wheels and shut their vehicles, chassis completely off the frame. It's pretty good later on, there's a sort of roadblock erected low with a lorry. He has a rocket fired from his car, which blows it up.

And then they drive through the flaming wreckage. That was pretty cool. Other ones that were probably worth to mention vanilla sky. Remember that Tom cruise?

Reegs:I did, but what was the, the car crash sheet?

Sidey:He's in the car with Cameron Diaz, she's driving and she's in this sort of psychotic. Why don't you love me thing?

She says the line I swallowed your calm, which is quite funny. And then she starts to become more and more crazed and. Sort of points the car towards the bridge. And they sort of wrestle over the steering wheel and it just plows off fucking hits the grounds, you know, nose first and then smashed into the wall.

And then that's when he ends up with a mask on his face and all that. And back to the future with the skateboarding slash car chase, which culminates with Biff crashing his prize wagon into the shit.


Dan:Okay. Oh, nice.

Reegs:Well, the first time he crashes his car into shit in different time

Sidey:He was very cavalier with his driving.

Reegs:Yeah. Yeah. But it's always attracted to shit.



Reegs:Oh, just the fast and the furious. I mean, you know, you've got the iconic black Dodge charger that was introduced in the first one that was built by Dominic Doritos father. Is. Repaired and crashed and killed and repaired and crashed and killed memorably lots and lots of times, too, that I think about is in number six, where Don stands on the bonnet of the car and he crashes it into the side of the bridge and he sort of flies through the air catching.

Is it Michelle Rodriguez in midair as they like? I, it's just amazing. Yeah. And in the most recent, the hub, the VIN diesel, and Jason's, Statom one, the first one where they


Reegs:and they go for like a head-on collision in


Reegs:just get absolutely obliterated seven, isn't it. And they just kind of come at the spring out of the cars and they're completely fine.

Sidey:There's never a scene with VIN diesel and the rock and onscreen together.

Reegs:they hate each other domain

Dan:Oh, sorry. it.

was the

Sidey:I wouldn't have thought the rock would

Reegs:I thought both of them were maybe above that shit,

Sidey:but no, they won't. Yeah.

Dan:I've got the biggest guns. now. I've got the biggest

guns, the

Reegs:Rockies, but it's bigger

Sidey:it's bigger physically. His movie career is bigger.

Dan:But VIN


Even diesel.

Dan:got the fast and furious franchise. Anyway, I've

I've got one more. year. You are only supposed to blow the bloody doors off


Dan:Yes, exactly. Him cottony con man, Michael Kane recently released from the clink puts together a truly ludicrous heist. is still 4 million in mafia, gold bullying in the middle of the tour in using mini Coopers.

It's the Italian, job, you know the iconic scenes Fooda, again, not a movie that was all that fantastic I mean, It was decent, but it wasn't one of the best movies ever seen, but yeah,

Sidey:it's got, it's one of those films. It's got loads of sort of really iconic moments and phrases whilst the whole

Reegs:thing doesn't add up

Sidey:Isn't that great? Yeah.

Reegs:I agree.

Dan:No, No

as in a gangster. Yeah. Benny hill


  1. Quincy Jones did the jazz


Reegs:A lot of it was about how good the ending was. Really. Yeah.


it was, you know, I mean, very different to fast and furious, but they probably are a lot to this through influences

and things. There's

the comedy or the lighthearted moments.

And, and certainly the end is, you know, as far as film endings go, I've still got that picture exactly as it is in your mind. And it's just fantastic.

Reegs:I've got a plan.

Sidey:All right. Then let's try and distill this list down a bit. Dan, what are you putting in? You probably got to put two in

Dan:w well, I'll tell


what the one that

I'm going to put in is a tele guided Knights, the palette of of Ricky Bobby

because I just remember really, really laughing to this film and I really enjoyed it.

Sidey:Cool. I'm going to burn death proof for sure. Cause it's super fucking violent and everyone needs to have seen that.

Reegs:and that's knowing I was going to put that in okay.


Sidey:Cool. Dan, one more

Dan:to choose one more of this, I would like to put the Italian. job in.

Sidey:Okay. So  Talladega nights, the Italian job, death proof and adaptation.

That's a buried list

Dan:is a crash 

Sidey:we're taking it back to 2014. If you can remember back that far. Dan you're nominated whiplash.

Dan:Yeah. It's it's a bit of a, a cult classic. This one now I feel it's it's really took me by surprise when I first watched it.

So be interested to hear what you guys think about it a little bit further down

the line. but

Reegs:This was a director, Damien chisels. Debut he went on to do LA LA land, which we've reviewed on the pod before, and we all really enjoyed and he did first man, which I haven't seen, but some of you have, but that, yes, this was his debut movie.

It's about Andrew Nyman miles Taylor he's he's a student playing the drums as an alternate at the fictional Schaefer conservatory

Dan:yeah. Jazz drama at that as well. So has you know, obviously it's,

it's a

higher kind of end of music, I guess then isn't it, there's so many different things he has

Sidey:suddenly their mind.

Dan:in their

Sidey:They said, well, it's the poster that's on the wall says, if you, if you don't make it, you can always play in a rock band or something like that. Although that's tied

Dan:Yeah, It is exactly that. So ambitious young Drudge drama Andrew


Is wanting to reach the, very, very top of the, the jazz world business.

He wants to be one of the greats wants to be remembered as one a grace prepared to put on the hard graft. And then so goes to this school where he finds a teacher who will push students and push students and push students with some terrifying teaching methods that will make or break them.

And he has no regard for the mental health, with San, every students, its greatness or broke.

So as he's learning through life and school and girlfriends and relationships,

the sacrifices he asked to make and, and everything

to, to become the top and th the mental strength he will need to reach the top is kind of being forged here. but It may also break him before he ever reaches it.

Sidey:This, this, I guess must have the in whiplash world.

The is the best school. And this guy must be known as being the best teacher because you see that first sort of practice session where it's the sort of other teacher guy that we never see again, they're waiting for a chance to play for him. They're waiting for JK Rowling. They can actually see us sort of silhouette through the door window and he's listening in.

No one takes his fancy, so he doesn't even open the door and they all say, oh, not today. But he has in fact already seen our hero, Andrew in the very first scene where he's just practicing on his own. And it's our first insight into just how intense this guy is. And he doesn't even show his full hand here, but he's just,


Sidey:presence on the screen.

His fucking quite scary already.

Dan:To go straight


that first encounter with somebody you didn't know. And he's already the mind games begin the mind games straight away, star E he says,

what are you stopped playing


he comes in and ever told

you to stop playing. So then he just starts

up again.

He has to go in for that. What's the comment he makes you not like a windup monkeys, something like that. You started,

Reegs:He says, I asked you why you stopped playing in your version. And version of an answer was to turn into a windup monkey. just intimidating, straight

Dan:Anyway. I mean, it's it's a really horrible.

thing to

Sidey:one of the kinds of things he says to cause it's fucking downhill from there.

Reegs:He just sort of disappears

Sidey:it's as if like that perf of smoke and he just got out the door. Cause he he's almost comedically paying the John's looks up and the doors closed

Reegs:And then he comes back in and you think he's going to ask him to come to the thing, but he's just forgotten his jacket and he

Sidey:it's just, yeah, it's just hot.

Reegs:Yeah. Oh, it's his hat, right? And then the next day, I guess Andrew is at rehearsal, isn't he an eater in the, I didn't quite get the structure here. Basically. The class is not as good.

Sidey:It's not the reserve team. Yeah.

Reegs:it's yeah, it's the reserve. And he's also the reserve of the reserve as



Sidey:It's cool. Isn't it? So they're, they're essentially first years at the school.

They're, they've become juniors don't they they're sophomores and seniors. So I think this was the effectively, the new intake of the school and the studio band is the seniors effectively. Who've worked their way up and are deemed good enough to play. Yeah. But JK comes in and has a look and asks. Andrew to actually play for him.

And he says to him, six o'clock tomorrow, don't be late. And he, he sleeps in and but it's not tonight. It just wants him to fucking sit somewhere at six in the morning just because he can yeah.

Reegs:Some power over him.

Dan:isn't he

Sidey:he's late for the six o'clock thing, but yeah, he gets there. I don't know. It was like quarter past

Reegs:Well, it says on the door, it says it's 9:00 AM. The class

Sidey:He's just sort of sat around.

Reegs:okay, well

Dan:Yeah. I, I don't know whether he

Reegs:It's a power

Dan:be there at six

Sidey:but he never mentioned it. Yeah.



just doesn't know that, you know, he's late,


Reegs:power play. It's just a power play straight, get him up. Can I get him there? You know, it's going to, I'm going to be number one. And it, it starts out. Okay.

To be honest, the, the band all playing everything seems okay. He even gives Andrew a go.

Sidey:I just want to point out that that other drummer was a fucking Dick.

Reegs:Yeah. The one who can't read music

Sidey:Yeah. From the get-go he was a fucking penis.


Dan:so Andrew gets his

chance. because the P the penis is, is,

needs to move and give way.

And he likes him and he says,


let's issue a seat now? And he casts off the other guy, like he was never there. He might've done three or four years at the school, but he's, he's got no time for him. And that's the thing where we've Terrance, He's got no time, for anybody who isn't giving

a hundred

percent and to him is being great and keeping

Sidey:well he's already had to fucking well, he hasn't had to, but he's got rid of, one of the trombone players.

Is there someone in my band is out of tune

and it just goes through each section to the, get to horns. And then he's like, right, what are you so

tune Who is it

Dan:in a, you know, like in a, it's almost

comparing to one of those Holocaust films.

or, you know, when

they go out, who is it, who's got the, you know,

the, the

thing to escape and they go through everybody and they're like, no, no, no.

The fear he's put into the students is there, they're going through

all got to play a little bit. It's not


it's not you, it's

not, you. And it closes down on to this one guy who, who at that point is gone. He doesn't, know whether it's

Sidey:wouldn't be able to play in

Dan:know whether he's in tune or not anymore. He's

Sidey:Which is exactly what happens. He fucks him off.

And when he's gone, he said, actually he wasn't playing out of tune, but the fact that he didn't notice enough and then he points out who actually was where they get to stay. So we've seen him at a fucking most brutal. And now he goes on to ask Sandra to play. Yeah. And he's not happy with it, but he just says, don't worry, you know, you'll get it.

Go again,

Dan:Day one will be

Sidey:plays it again. And he does this sort of clenched fist sort of shake it by his head, say, nah, not, not quite my tempo. And he starts repeating that over and over again. And he just makes it do it a hundred times. And it, then it sort of degenerate from sort of encouragement and just to know, to just flat out fucking screaming at him that he doesn't know whether he's coming in early or too late,

Reegs:he keeps counting him in one, two or whatever it is because the time it's whiplash is the name of the tune that they're playing at that point. And it's, it's a seven, eight beat, which is apparently a freaky hard one to sort of get.

But anyway, it's all the differences to somebody like me are absolutely imperceptible at the top level. You like the timing, the tuning of something, because I don't have the year.

Dan:It might be

perceptible to you.

I can't even tell the difference. So,

Reegs:Yeah. But he's yeah. So he's, he's asking, are you rushing or dragging or he brushing or dragging eventually sort of commits to one?

Then a chair gets hurled. He slapping him.

Dan:This is just day one in the in the big boys class, for our jazz drama

hero and he



Reegs:He gives him the fake nice guy trick as well. It's almost worse after like pummeling him and humiliating, and then he's takes him aside and he's talking to him about ours.

How's his family and that sort of thing, telling him, you know, there's some good jazz to listen to that sort of calling a man, telling him to relax again. It's just brutal psychological tool

Dan:and it

goes that

fits all the way through this film.


it's the kind of thing

that you'll see in sport. And you'll

see in different elite


kind of entertainment or elite level sports and drama film, where,

you've got a mentor,

a teacher that is pushing people to the point where mentally they're breaking. If not physically, they're

Sidey:I remember hearing a lot about it after the cycling, when that started to calm down, cause it was writing goals for that team,

Dan:A sky goal. Yeah.

Sidey:sky team.

And then after things started to calm down, you heard a lot of stuff about bullying and people being too fat. You weren't allowed to be in a relationship or get pregnant or do anything that affected cycling in any way. And they will come out and say like either deny it or they'll say, if you want to compete at the highest level, you need to be able to, when you're competing that that's the sort of mindset you need to be mentally tough.

And so they're toughen up. You know, we all know that this behavior is fucking not acceptable. It has consequences. It has to be set and example of that in this film. But I just think it's something that's quite commonplace when you get to this elite level.

Dan:but it's interesting as we go on and as the film unfolds, how those methods manifest themselves differently and if they were successful or not it can be argued, I guess.

You know what I mean? Particularly in higher level sports and things where football is I mean, Jamie chambers would have told us

That's a really tough, you know, industry to get into and to be mentally tough to be, you will be hammered down because the competition is so hard, you know, because competition is so difficult and this jazz and music world was no different.

This was real doggy dog. The other dramas didn't give a shit who was in front. They said, you know, they, they swear in front of each other lots of parts, this film saying,

Hey, fucking good enough.

is me. I should be in.

Reegs:Yeah, well, they're competing aren't

Dan:they, all

Reegs:there's a really good triumphant scene where the guy he dragged in at some point, the guy who was in the first-class


Reegs:and he shouts at him turn my pages.

You are you fucking bitch or something? Cause he has to turn the music for him. The, the inspiration for the philosophy. Of Terrance Fletcher is basically inspired by this true story about Charlie Parker when he was a young guy he

Dan:guy that gave 500 grand for the states of Jersey, is

Reegs:not that guy, different, different Charlie Parker.

He was, he was a teenage musician at the time Charlie Parker, and there was a star on stage in the rhythm section, Joe Jones. He was a drummer. One of the, it was one of the biggest swing bands in the U S at the time. And he kind of fucks this moment up. So Joe Jones throws a symbol at him in the, in the real life story.

It hits him in the feet, but in the movie when he talks about it, hits him in the head and it was this moment, this confrontation, this act of violence that then inspired the bird, Charlie Parker to go off and become to practice and practice and practice and to become the greatest that there ever was. So.

He's taken this philosophy into the classroom that I, if I push and poke and create the right environment in inverted commerce, I can unearth the next jazz

Dan:then the next Charlie Parker and


Reegs:And they're


Reegs:cannon fodder as they come through the students, just to whoever until the next one who is the right stuff.

Dan:And he makes no apologies for his, his methods.

So as, as we go through, we find out actually one of his students has

I don't think he's says that. He committed suicide. I think he said there was an accident or, or something.

Sidey:He takes the phone call. And then he's, he speaks about it in the studio about someone who's not there. And he does it, you see a, sort of a different side of him where he gets a bit emotional about

Dan:Well, talking about, I just want you to know that he was a really good musician

Sidey:and we've also seen Andrew has seen him speaking to what looks like a former student.

Who's now got a kid and he's talking to the child very nicely. And it's all

Dan:a human side of this

Reegs:He was in the script. It says he's a roadie for the venue where they were playing. So, but he knows him socially. Yeah. And he's nicely interacting with them. Yeah.

Sidey:yeah. A little bit of balance, you know? But not enough to,

cause if only I found when he was on screen and you're just waiting for the next tirade and there you're fucking, almost wincing, like who's going to get the next fucking volley.

He's just such an intimidating

Reegs:it's exhilarating,

Dan:alpha male, male, who will

break People in half for the fun

of it. Won't think twice.


all this has been going on, Andrew's got a couple of other problems to deal with. He's kind of hooked up with this girl, Melissa. Ben, why didn't, what was her name?

Nicole? Was it.


It was Nicole. Yeah, she was super girl.

Reegs:Eight. He sort of develops this relationship with her then kind of bins her off by talking the inevitability of his stardom and perfect

Sidey:empathy. He totally romanticizes all these dysfunctional musicians. And there's the, the family around the dinner table scene where they're all into sport.

And they're talking about how He's a

Dan:to get a scholarship

Sidey:blah, blah, blah. And he's just kind of a musician that didn't really give a fuck about that because they don't consider it to be worthy.

Dan:Yeah, it is.

Sidey:says, well, I'd rather fucking die. You know, at 34 having been brilliant than

a slagged off, cause he only plays division three football.


Sidey:But none of them see eye to eye with him about that.

Dan:Well not none of the family really see that the fact that he's playing premier league


Reegs:well, the father as well, he was a failed author or a sort of mid range author. So he's also pursued art and not being


Reegs:a yes. Fell short. So I think there's an element of projection about that in his relationship with you.

Dan:Well, I,

think it also references that, does need JK Rowling at one point of the

Sidey:Well, that's part of the reason of like, getting to know a few facts about I'm soaking them, throw them in his face. Cause I think his mother is, he says about his mum leaving and yeah, about mid to sort of shitty average dad and stuff like that.

I just throws it all back in his face. When he wants to scream at him, it's really grim.

Reegs:Andrew practices until his hands bleed, utterly brutal and visceral

Dan:yeah, he he's he's re he's really gives it a go

doesn't it. he gets on board. He, he wants to


Reegs:And he wants to play the

Dan:K Rowling Yeah

Reegs:go to.

He's not actually the first chair or whatever they call it. He's is it first year? He's not actually playing, but the guy Tanner is the guy who youth called him a penis before. Didn't you? He gives Andrew his music to hold. And that there's a really ambiguous moment here because Fletcher's already moaned about four people leaving their music around




Reegs:and the folder Andrew's got the folder.

He puts it down for literally half a second in film time and it's gone. And I was like, or maybe a couple of seconds film time. And it's kind of left unclear

Dan:100% Fletcher takes that

Reegs:it or something else completely. I don't

Dan:And There's a few

things like this in the film that just leaves you like that six o'clock in the morning moment where he's been told to arrive at six o'clock and, and he's not there.

Fletcher's not there. And whatever you do do not lose your fucking folders. I will not have it. So he can imagine Fletcher wandering around, looking for folders that people


you know, put down their, their shorts and and tighter around their bodies to take it, to

make them feel like

shit again.

Because no, none of the other musicians would sabotage each other like that.


Reegs:Well, so the, but this leaves Andrew in the position of saying, well, I know the song off by heart because I've been practicing so much. We've seen him practicing over and over and over, and he plays well and he earns first year, Hey, woo. That's going to be great.

Dan:kicked out.


Reegs:Then they have this Scene where they, he brings in Johnny, Utah, again from the other class.

And he basically makes them perform for hours and hours and hours and hours. It's about two o'clock in the morning.

Dan:of them when they just

Reegs:three drummers, none of them can get them. Right. And they're dripping with

Dan:band's there isn't it,

Reegs:When he finally nails it, he's something like, can somebody wipe the blood off my drum kit?

It's just absolutely

Dan:The bond is, is waiting to play this caravan or whiplash song that they've decided it's one of the standard jazzes. And you're right Fletcher just doesn't like any of them.

and keep rotating the dramas around and around. All part of his methods, all part of his methods to break people down. Doesn't give a shit about the cannon fodder. He's trying to get the best out of Newman here. It

Sidey:this the night before.

Reegs:Yeah. So they, there is

Sidey:they're still gone two in the morning, and then he has to get up at five.

I dressed to get up to five to get the bus, to get to the venue.

Reegs:Yeah. Because it's like two hours away and the bus breaks down and any higher as a car.

And it, he gets, he gets there, but he's late and he's like, oh shit, I've left my drumsticks. So then I have to go back to the car rental place, get the drum sticks. Now he's like basically supposed to be on stage as he's driving back. And then we have, as he in one of our top five movie car crashes, we didn't discuss it.

But he sideswiped unexpectedly in this brutal car crash. Didn't see it coming. Presumably

Dan:out. Wow.

It just like he's on the, he's on the car phone.

Just saying, look, whatever it is, tell him I'm on the fucking way. I'm right there. Now I'm coming for.

Sidey:But he actually stood up to Terrence as well. He said, don't fucking play him. You know, I'll get my stuff. I'll fucking be here. And he really fucking tells him I'm going to play no matter what, it's

Reegs:turning point in their relationship. Isn't it? Cause he's like, oh, I'll cut you. And he's like, you would have cut me by now if you were going to like, so yeah,

Dan:he knows

Reegs:he's got the power. He knows he's good.

He's going to go to the

Sidey:I thought at this point after the car crash. Cause I, I thought, fuck, I didn't see that coming. So, so I, I quickly looked to see how long was left and they was still.

Dan:a chunk

Sidey:30 minutes, 40 minutes. Yeah. And I thought maybe this is going to go like million dollar baby where he'd been in. I couldn't play anymore. You know what I mean? Like she got wiped out. I couldn't box. I thought, oh, this is going to be a really sad story of how his dreams are fucking gone. Like, you know? But it doesn't play out that he does.

He buys to pick himself up dust himself down and get to the venue.

Reegs:he grabs his drumsticks.

Dan:It's a gnarly, gnarly crash.

Reegs:blood. He's like sweating from

Sidey:Yeah. But he's sitting there like, what the fuck? But he can't really grip the, I think he's probably broken his arm. He can't hold the drum state. He keeps dropping it and he's

Dan:massive shock as well.

but He manages to find himself on stage looking like shit dripping with blood. And Fletcher just kind of looks at him. Totally unforgiving. He he must know just by looking at him, he is in no position, in which to play,

Reegs:Now I instruct him. I mean, what is that though? You were in a car accident and therefore now I hate you.


Sidey:Well you causing me to lose it because he, he pulls it and he pulls the plug.

Reegs:He gets kicked out of

Sidey:and well, he launches at me. He goes, he rugby tackled him to the ground.

Reegs:Oh, yeah.

Sidey:He actually, he actually cracked two objective Rawlings ribs in that, doing that they just carried on. And he was about the problem and some of the students have to restrain him.

And because of that outburst, he's kicked out of the college.


And he then obviously has had a few heart to hearts with dad who

goes over and above probably

what he wanted him to do and brings in a lawyer. Because. There's been bullying at this school and there's been various other reports from other students and including one boy who's actually committed

suicide because of

the suggestion that the teaching methods were too strong.

They were too

difficult. They were too hard core.

Reegs:So Andrew testifies against

Dan:kind of gets by the point. You'll never know who it was We'll never say, who it is. We're not going to use your name.

We just want you to do so. He gets kind of talked into it

doesn't really want to do it,

But I think he also has that

that kind of

responsibility for the people that

are coming in after

him, where he just thinks that's fucked up that

guy, shouldn't be doing that.

yet. There might them, you may produce a couple of great musicians, but at what price of the 30, 40, 50. X amount of others that fall by the wayside,


Dan:and know he's jacked in at this point as well. He's he's

what a

white teacher or he's

working in a cafe. He's not

really any ambitions to get back into


Reegs:You Andrew, you talking about, yeah.

He's given up the drapes symbolically put the drums away, hasn't he? And yeah,

Dan:He has.


and he's he's getting on well,

he's even maybe getting, you know, reaching it, thinking I could have a relationship


Reegs:it's six degrees. Shading, no Disney. Cause he phones her up. Well,

Sidey:he does. He, he, he, he was walking around the town and he does see a, just a Blackboard chalk advert outside a pub or a jazz club to say that blah, blah, blah, is playing and blah, blah, blah. And

Dan:Terrance Fletcher,

Sidey:Terrance Fletcher span the piano. So, thanks for your curiosity. I'd never, I don't think he's ever actually seen him play.

Reegs:You absolutely would. You'd be like, can this go even fucking do it? Yeah.

Sidey:So he goes in and it's a bit of like a wonky sort of lounge jazz kind of thing. I thought it wasn't.

Reegs:Yeah, no, I agree. I agree.

Sidey:it to be a bit more virtuoso, but it was a bit more kind of pinky plunk.

Reegs:I don't mind that stuff. It's instantly forgettable.

Sidey:So they have a, they reconnect.

Dan:Well is it interest in seeing as well, isn't it? Because he goes in he's right in the back of the bar is quite busy. But again, Joe K Rowling has that ability to clock. somebody in a crowded

room. And it's always seems to be Andrew, who he can see. So he turns around and sees him. And as he's backing


to, to leave Hey, Andrew, the nice guy.

comes out

Sidey:Yeah, they, they reconnect. They have a drink. He tells him about his band. It says actually, drummers don't really work it out. So if you want to

Dan:yeah. Oh, you heard that I've left the school



Somebody fucking said something. you know what I really wanted to do? I just want to push people. I want to get their greatness. So he laid lays out then

in his

Reegs:he's all Pally. He's trying to

explain himself. And even if you don't agree with him and you know that what he's done is really wrong, there is a moment where you at least understand him.

Dan:It's really definitely, you know,

I, a lot of this film hinges on how far you can push

people and how

far they will will take it.

that kind of level of

Sidey:it tries to justify it by saying. You know, we were just trying to get another Charlie Parker, but then he does say, but we know I've never had one. So for all the amount of collateral damage and things that he's done, and he hasn't actually achieved what he wanted to do. I mean, it was also a sort of backhanded way of saying, and you're not that good

Dan:it. Well, that was, That was more to the point,



then he

just says,

look, I've

got a I've got a

space, the band,

you know, all the songs would you like to step in? And just, play a few standards with me and probably, you know, against his better


he got something in him as well. He probably played drums for years.

he had the desire to be the very best and he probably wants to believe

the best in people as well. And so then he goes and

agrees and says, yes,

I'll be playing.

Reegs:it's going to be conciliatory gesture from them as they're going to kind of mutually admire and respect each other. And you know, they've been through this traumatic shared experience and let's go and do something positive at the end of it and play this competition.

Dan:And That is exactly how it doesn't work out.

Sidey:Well, he really tries to get the band back together by phoning Nicole and saying, I'm going to be playing such and such a show.

Dan:Oh, she might come along

Sidey:Would you like to come along? He says, well, maybe I'll have to ask my boyfriend. Oh man, what I put down?

Reegs:I'll have to ask my boyfriend.

Sidey:Yeah. You see his face is like, oh man, that was that hurt.

Yeah. But This, all this whole thing turns out to be an elaborate fucking setup to humiliate him on stage because the first number that they go to play, he doesn't have the music for it. It's not, it's not a song that he knows.

They've never played it before he hasn't got the music. So he tries to sort of improvise something and the whole band are just getting fucked off with him.

Dan:And, and he realizes that he has found himself at like Carnegie hall with everybody who's ever going to make any decision on anyone playing music in New York or around the world is in that room.

They will remember everything you do. If it was great, you will be great if you miss a note, you're fucked. So J K Rowling just before he start says, I know it was fucking you to ride me out to the school. You a little fucking shit here, eat this and completely stitches them up. just pulls

the rug from

under his feet.

Sidey:It's harsh. He actually walks off. He sort of storms off the stage and is sort of met by his father


I mean

Sidey:gives him a hug

Dan:who'd been in the crowd, who was hoping to see this, this

fine performance.

for his

Sidey:think he hoped for the best, but fear the worst from this performance.

Dan:a was, you know, is it an absolute embarrassment if he had any illusions at all, of getting back into the jazz

dramas, even if it's just been blown, it's been blown by this, but there's something in him that

Sidey:you think that the two, the, the dad and the son are gonna walk away, you know, and he's going to consolidate actually.

He turns back and there's no, he ain't going to fucking beat me. I'm going to go, I'm going to have another guy.

Dan:I'm going to go.

Sidey:So this is about a nine or so minute long drum solo that we get

Reegs:Yeah. It's well, he plays the, he does a drum solo into the introduction of the song caravan which is one that they'd been trying to nail.

Most of the way

Dan:Along with whiplash, this was the other standard



Sidey:He just keeps saying to you, well, I'll cue you in. Yeah. Okay. You in,

Reegs:There's a great moment where he's absolutely thrashing away and he's knocked over one of the symbols and it's turned from Fletcher's outrage at this because suddenly realizes he's wit witnessing this unbelievable virtuoso

Dan:He's witnessing,

greatness. He's witnessing the kind of

Reegs:what he tried to create.

Dan:putting him. he's put this guy in a position where he's got so angry and he's got so

driven that

he's going to come out.

and put on that kind

of performance, just to say, fuck you,

This is what

I can do, which is exactly what Fletcher wanted. He wanted to get that out of him to say, look, you could do it.

And then Fletcher's on his


Reegs:There's I love that moment. He knocks the symbol over and then suddenly Fletcher rushes in to fix it for him. And he gives him like a little nod.

Dan:It gives him a little note.

I'll cue you

It, it, you know, He can realize

that this guy is in the fucking zone here. He's in the room,

Sidey:then he starts to, it just moves his hand like that to bring it to slow the

Dan:and then

they're they're well, they're becoming a team. There's a, there's a respect there then that that's been broken down and,

Reegs:and then they launch into caravan proper. It's a brilliant song.

Dan:I mean,

the drum So learning it is absolutely fantastic. And

he's obviously a miles teller picked up some sticks before. Because this isn't just learnt for the film. This is

Sidey:No he was a trauma but I

Dan:who's done it.

Sidey:didn't know how I felt about that end.

To be honest with you,

Reegs:there's a lot going on. There is a lot going on

Dan:take the end. What was the

Sidey:intent each other as if, to say like a mutual respect or it was JK Simmons saying, you know, I'm happy. Cause I got what I wanted at you, but is it miles smiling because he didn't give up and he beat him in a way or is it the two of them smiling.

Cause it's great music. And they now get on.


Sidey:It's sort of, I don't know.

Dan:I think it's

Reegs:he really achieved anything? Because really he's just been, he's like stepping back from it. He's just been tweeting the drums for like nine minutes and they're not everybody's going, oh, that was really good.

And then just, you know,

Dan:you got to figure all those guys

in Carnegie hall who have just witnessed greatness.

Like you've got one of the great


solos. Down here, this is

absolute and.

for me, how I interpret it is it is what we were saying there that he'd been pushing. it, been pushing, it had been pushing, he'd lost this kid He had gone off, but then he'd go and back again.

Sidey:I didn't think he'd going back to do that.

I think he had just gotten back to get his own back on him and fucking humidity. I am, he wasn't expecting him to then come.

Dan:I th I think he I think that he, he did want to fuck him up. He did want to push him. And he didn't give a shit if he didn't retort back with what he did, but when he did, when he fought back and said, well, fuck you, this is what I can do.

And he puts on that

kind of performance. It's about the music. Then I think it's about the music

for, for both of them. And he kind of gets it, the the drama And JK Rowling gets it as well. And I think there's a mutual risk.

Sidey:It validates this appalling fucking behavior to say all this terrible shit that he's done throughout the film, leading to someone actually fucking killing

Reegs:I don't think it does validate it because there were plenty of arguments again. I mean, you can, it's really easy to construct arguments against it. I know what you're saying. It doesn't it, the movie does really well not to be too judgmental in a way about Terrence Fletcher's character. Although, I mean, they do say he had a suicide in his class, so obviously he's an asshole.

Obviously what he's doing is wrong and it's true. You know, we talked earlier in the bit that we didn't record about how a Shaffer conservatory is the based on the Julliard school and had it's a lot of problems over the years with bullying and there's lots of accounts of stuff that you can listen.

And at this elite level, in any kind of discipline, a technical discipline like this, that there's competition and bullying and all those sorts of things. That occur. But I, I don't think the movie excuses it, but it does make it more troubling because at the end it kind of goes, well, all this awful shit happened, but we did get a

Sidey:That's what I mean. So that to me is a validation, but it's saying it's okay to treat people like that. If your end goal is to get someone to be brilliant,

Reegs:Yeah. But I don't know that, but is it really brilliant? I mean, I know it's a, one-off brilliant virtuoso performance, but doing



Reegs:No, no, I don't mean, I just mean it's not going to be world changing.

It might be a platform to launch it, but you know, there are other ways for them to make their


Dan:it's like, it's like anything, you know, whether it be the cyclist, whether it be the

gymnasts where

Reegs:but it doesn't have to be like that. Like Thelonious monk is a good example of a guy who was a jazz musician who was really encouraged by his parents, not pressured, but encouraged tiger woods.



would they, was he one of those who was like given a golf club when he was two and fucking beaten until he hit a shot or he was, you know, he was quite a Serina Williams and Venus Williams a bit more different, but that

Dan:pushy parents, and all the rest of it,


no, I mean, there's,

it's different for different people. Isn't it?

Some people

will react

fantastic. When you say your shit, they'll go, whoa, whoa, I'm fucking not. and they will give you Other people will just

go into their shell.

Reegs:You got some insight into this at top level sport really haven't you because yeah,

Dan:you you see this in, in. Top level sport and I think elite level, anything there's bullying

that goes on.

There's a

real cutthroat

business. It's dog eat dog, and a result Oh, tons,

tons. There's, there's a couple of,

Reegs:of it by

Sidey:You told us one about that coach who was awful to the trainees,

it's fucking horrendous.

Dan:One lad came on on to trial and this would be similar in this kind of film, you

could imagine, you know, w when

the musician comes in, he's not quite at

the level,

the kind of thing

that you would expect in in this, like they'd all spit him or photo instruments at this kid and say your shit and make him feel like even worse was the kind of bullying that would



When a trial list

came for football,

Didn't quite make it or wasn't good enough. And you could see that, like,

you know,

he's he's

Reegs:that's the

Dan:but, But when the coaches that are saying, you know, you all in a circle, where everybody kicked the ball in it And once like, you know, and hit it as hard as you can see if you can hit him, you know, just to fucking oh, He's like this kid. He's not, it's not like he's getting

  1. And Morgan, out of it off. Oh, it's only a joke. You're okay. No, fuck off now. Like,

And you're not Because it's a results business

and the music is, is the same where they ease on the pressure to, to bring

out the

best, you know, people who come out of this school, don't go looking for a job.

People find them, you know, P they use the best jazz musicians

in the country.

There They'll go anywhere. They can walk into any band, anything anywhere across the

world. So

the standard is that high

and he does

have no time for


that will drop below there. And it's like that. And you occasionally will get the best out of people by pushing and pushing and pushing, but you will lose people

on the way if you have no other method because

some people will need an arm around the shoulder


Reegs:or they kill themselves. Cause that's what happens in the movie. Isn't it

Dan:it didn't focus a lot on that,

but it was there hanging over because of the way

this, this was

filmed and, and you,

you, he talked about it. He suggested it. It

was just there. They never drummed it in, but you never forgot it.

Either that somebody from that bullying tactics had actually, you know, hurt himself, killed themselves,

got more than depressed

and more than just walked out, something serious had happened.

Sidey:JK Simmons performance is fucking outstanding.


he's one of the great movie villains in this

Sidey:What really minded me of is a full metal jacket. Yeah. The drill Sergeant, it's a, he's the musical drill Sergeant in many ways. He's one

Dan:made me really go looking for anything that he did, because I just thought

what an act. I want

to see him in more and

more. And when we saw him in there, the

Palm Springs, I was so happy to

see him.

because he's just. Such a

fantastic character


far, he's won 47 awards for this role

Around the world. Which tells you, it must be pretty good. The, the movie itself was shot in 19 days, which seems pretty slick.

He couldn't get it made at first though. I guess he was relatively unknown. So he did it first as a short film. One, let us stop at Cannes film festival, I think. Oh, Sundance. No, it was, it was JK in that as well, but it wasn't miles teller.

Reegs:He's fantastic in this as well. I mean, we talked about how great coz Simmons really is absolutely amazing. It's Hey, men's he is absolutely amazing in this. No

most tell is pretty good.


don't know that I've ever seen him in anything else I must have done, but I haven't seen fantastic

Dan:They do war dogs or something like that.


I think he did, but he has some scars on his face and his neck. And I didn't know that. I didn't know if that was real. And I didn't know if in this film he was troubled and had self-harmed or something, but that's, there's a disguise that he has from a car crash he had when he was younger.

Reegs:yeah, not only that, but it's really freaky the car crash stuff in this, because obviously there's a car crash in the movie. He had a car crusher he's younger. Damien Chazelle was also in a car

Sidey:during the making

Reegs:during the making of this. That was not unlike what happened in the movie. Really weird. He himself had a lot of these experiences.

He was in a competitive atmosphere in Princeton. I think it was playing he wasn't in a, in a music school, but he was in a competitive play environment where he was playing. So, but he, he says about himself that he instinctively knew that he didn't have greatness in him, which is inter at least in Sofar, I guess, is as music is concerned, which is an interesting point of view because obviously Andrew is so driven and.

Unwavering, except to the point where he gives it all up, but he w he not only has talent, but he, he works unbelievably hard at it. Well, it's like the founder last week, you know, it's not about the just being

Dan:most talented, or, or, but yeah, no, it's a

Sidey:they have that comment at the family dinner where someone says, well, you know, Competitions and music, you can't be, can't tell them one person's better than the other.

And he's like, you fucking can.

Reegs:Yeah. But can you at whole, I

Sidey:see, I don't agree with music as an award thing at all. It should be subjective,

especially jazz to me, jazz is something that is absolutely like fluid and loose and should be about the listener, grading it then in terms of A's B's and C's just seen fucking totally like in Congress to me.

Reegs:But, and, and it's really interesting. I think that's in there as well, because he, Andrew Nyman's idol, his buddy rich. And buddy rich was an interesting choice for them to make, because he couldn't read sheet music. He was famously a bit of an asshole and hard to get on with and stuff. So he was this sort of antithesis of what he was being groomed to.

Yeah. So anyway, yeah,

Sidey:Well, yes. And money-wise. We'd like this, it was made for just 3.3 million, but I'm going to tell you that it's one of the lowest grossing films ever to be nominated for best picture at the Oscars. So do you think it was a winner or a

Dan:Wait, my money for free million. I think I've given him a few quid

Sidey:13, so that's good

Reegs:It's not enough for a movie of this quality. I have to

Dan:continue making money. This though, this

is one of those films that in five years time, you'll still enjoy. you. still watch avatar.


Made a few quid, but who's


Reegs:It's yeah, it's a captivating performance and it really does like force you to consider whether he is actually doing the world a service by sort of pounding the mediocrity out of people or whether he is just an abusive Dick and, and, and whether it's forgivable to treat people like that, if you can get greatness and I don't think the movie necessarily agrees at some point, but it asks you to consider that question.

And that is an interesting question for a movie to ask you.

Dan:it is because, you know, you'll often hear

the, the tragedy of talent being

lost, you know, I


we'll think about

various people we


and, and characters wherever we TV famous, or, or closer to home who had real talent, but then didn't go to use that.

Didn't go, didn't maybe have the right mentor,

the right

mental attitude. Didn't have, you

know, the white drive opportunity. And when you've got greatness, when you've got something that


agreed across the board to be. Wow. That's going down like in history, you know, Mozart, we're playing in hundreds of years.

you know, Shakespeare,

She told me, you know, that if you can produce some, he w he could know he


you're right. but he could write, he could

and whatever anybody's doing it at, their very greatness. If, if you can have that down, that's a gift

then to, to people.

And that's what I think J K Rowling is, is trying to get across here in our book.

Sidey:Let's just do a quick one word summary then rigs where you entertained. Damn Yes. For me, this is top drawer alert. I did have a slight, slight question mark about that smile that they gave each other at the end,

Dan:I didn't, I, for me, The smile was. The point where we saw

Fletcher in a couple of softer


talking to extra students, talking to maybe a guy who is going to go and meet earlier.

He had a side

to him when he wasn't talking about

music. he's an absolute also don't get me wrong.

But for him, the music was the important thing.

Reegs:It's one of the questions. When he Nyman goes to the bar and sees him playing the piano, do you need the Blinky Blinky

Sidey:stuff? Yeah.

Reegs:Does he on the spot, come up with the plan to fuck him over in the next bit, you know, ah, on the, on the spot, he comes up with the idea of I'm going to reconcile with him so that I can screw him over when I'm on stage by giving him

Dan:a little bit. it wouldn't

surprise me. If he found

out he worked in a ball around the

corner, purposely

went to

a place to try and Britain is written his name on

The board He was that kind of,

Character that it, it may have very well, We'd done that because he saw the greatness in him and didn't want that to be

lost. And he you know, you'll have different ways

of, of sizing this up in, in your own, brain. but in

a hundred years when everything's done dusted and stories have been forgotten, what they will remember is the music. What they will remember is


the athlete they'll remember

is the performances

they gave. Or at least the majority of people will,

that's what they will get. That's what they'll

have you dig a little bit deeper.

You may be able to find out or Mozart was an arsehole wasn't he, or, or Shakespeare did this,

that and the

other but what there, then you've got that piece

of art and

how you got it is less important than then potentially, maybe this

will, that film asks a little

Sidey:Excellent. One more summary.


Right kids. T V what are we gone for?

Dan:went for the dragons. I know. that. and how you train them. Cause it's legendary. And this was how the train your, your Dragon's legend.

I remember the

first time I ever saw the dragons, it was one of those


things at the cinema on a Saturday morning, you

Sidey:Oh, the matinees.

Dan:mat, and I Expecting nothing.

Never heard of it went

in there. The fact that it was only a pound,

I don't think the cinema was expecting anything, but in about two months time, they'd jacked up to full price because it was suddenly out

Every it It was

Reegs:I this is a

Dan:was the first

Reegs:hole for me. I D I've not watched any of the, I know that's quite rare.

I've not seen any of the, how to train your dragon

Sidey:I had put them off because in my mind they had no sort of IP that I knew. No kids seem to ever talk about it. It just completely passed by and I had no interest in it. I think my daughter just had free reign on Netflix and put one on because she didn't have any mates.

As far as I'm aware at

Dan:just to be clear, that's not free reign that I'm watching

now with my daughter

is it about horses.

Sidey:No, as in carte blanche. And so she watched dragons then immediately when she watches something that she enjoys, just say, can we watch number two? And just so happens. There are three movies and they are really good.

These are Dreamworks. The animation is really good in the film. And I would say that that still carries on into this because I think this was the next thing that came out. And this, I didn't actually look, I should have done, but I think this came out in between some of the movies.

Reegs:It must've done. It

Sidey:because he's still dead young enough

Reegs:for me.

This was utterly baffling the way this started, because it completely assumed you knew who everybody was. So it feels like it must have been coming off the back

Dan:well, I, I, I D I did, I

did start you off on

Sidey:Christmas special, isn't

Dan:Yeah, it was, it was the gift of the night fury. Which I think was the

Sidey:toothless, the main dragon is a night fury. He's the only surviving night

Reegs:And he's got a disability.

Sidey:Yes. Which is caused by hiccup,

Reegs:which is Jay bear's show. There's quite a good cast in this Jay Baer show. He

Sidey:I was going to say the voice acting talent in this is great. And it carries on from the film.

Dan:do hiccup,

you know, and see it was very

okay. It's not, it's not really me. No, that was good. I had a really good are Claire. She, You gotta be, you gotta be kidding.

me man.

Sidey:film. So I suppose this must have come up after the first boom, he captures toothless and causes the damage to

He can retract them.


Sidey:He had caused the damage to his tail

Dan:Yeah. So without the backstory, of the dragons. Oh,



because I didn't,

Reegs:it made it less interesting.

Interestingly dad. Yeah. When you don't know who anybody is or why they're doing anything or, you know,

Sidey:what we were talking about, the, the, the voice, the talent, Christopher mins, plus his fish legs. Jonah hill is not loud. TJ Miller is tough. Not Kristen wig is rough, not

Reegs:Kirsten week. Chris,

Sidey:Kristen. K R I S.

Reegs:K I


didn't know

Reegs:Isn't it.

Sidey:KR. Kristin.

Reegs:O C K R. Kristen. Kristen wig. Kristen wig,


Dan:you want to come on and tell us how you

say your


please. Do

Reegs:They're they're celebrating snuggle tog, which was just Christmas. Wasn't it? Without father Christmas. Yeah. And Gerald Butler is Brian Blake.

Sidey:Yes. That, that Vikings who have dragons is what it all boils down to.

Dan:They never used to have dragons

They used to fight against dragons

Reegs:they trained them.

Dan:but then they found, yeah, Going back. hiccup found a way in which they could Time them, train them

and become friends with them and realized they


Reegs:do the impression again, we must keep dogging.

Dan:I'll I'll I'll I'll save it. I'll save it to a layer.

Sidey:something happens and all of the dragons leave.

Reegs:Yeah. Yeah. They just, they do. They just upped sticks and go

including toothless

Sidey:Well, he's already. Out for a flight with hiccup, they go out for

Reegs:he drops his hat,

Sidey:He drops his helmet in the water. He, no, you should always take care of your helmet. And they get caught up in this mass migration of all the

Dan:form of dragons

Sidey:They do that sort of thing in the film, quite a lot, where you get all these dragons flying at the same time. And they, it really looks fucking spectacular, very, very well done.

Dan:When you see it in real life

Sidey:yeah, it's even better, but they didn't why sort of getting out, they didn't look to me like they cut of corners just cause this was a TV special.

It still looks the business.

Dan:Oh, they've standard? Stop hold. Yeah.

Sidey:Yeah, but they basically track the Dragon's down and just having kids,

Reegs:Yeah. We didn't see the shagging. Did we, we just see the,

Sidey:there was no sort of real drama at all. It just turned out that they were having kids.

Dan:or they go to an island to have their children Or that lay their eggs.

What the the Vikings don't know, having never seen this before, is that the eggs that have been left over in the village in

what it's called it's called a Burke.

Reegs:cause that amused me buck.

Well it's nice Yeah,

Dan:but Burke island. But the place,

Reegs:yeah, nobody gets called a Burke anymore. Burke.

Dan:No, they don't. Yeah. It's been dead. that

word is, was terrific as it used to



Sidey:let's see, legs has sort of kept his dragon away.

Dan:Yeah. he's tied him up. He's tied up meat dog. Cause

Reegs:What was he going to do with

Dan:He just doesn't want to ever let him go. When he

saw the other drug is going Egypt, didn't want to let

him go.

Reegs:it's a bit like Sloss from the Goonies,


is how they find out.

that the they've gone off

Sidey:Well, he thought that meatloaf was a boy.

It turned out to be a girl.

Reegs:Are they all girls or the dragons?

Dan:don't know. There may be kind of both ways.

Sidey:Well, considering they've trained them, they didn't seem to know anything about their mating or, well, it must have been because they didn't know anything about their, how they might, or what happens with these eggs because the eggs were exploding.

They basically destroyed the whole town, the village by sort of stashing these eggs

Dan:surprising people with eggs that they thought were just going to acutely

crack open. their shell

Sidey:massive grenade.

Dan:But yeah, they, they did a lot

more damage in that.

Reegs:We haven't talked about the subplot really.

So to toothless has what's the guy's name? They've all got fucking ridiculous names in this like fish Canton hiccup. There you go. So hiccup hiccups made the special like metal fin. Four toothless then toothless is fucked off before all this. Right. And then he comes back at the end and you find that he was off looking for his element.

Wasn't me. That's what he was doing. He was looking for his pick

Sidey:just out onto his head. He, so he has the toothless has the tail disability and hiccup has a missing leg.

Reegs:Does he? Oh man. I'm so woke. I didn't even notice

Sidey:he used when he clips into the saddle or whatever it is on.

Reegs:Jimmy saddle

Sidey:Yeah. On toothless that activates his tail fin thing to pop out,

Dan:Until he designs.

one that doesn't require him to be sat on it.

And then he's

affected, we've given him his freedom.

And there you go.


subjugated, they doesn't want his freedom and he's fucked off. Yeah,

Sidey:It does disparate, but he only uses that tail fin to be able to find the helmet.

Reegs:Yeah. So the subplot, I found it, I did find the subplot of the boy in his missing helmet and the helmet being returned to him, quite touching, I have to say.

And the relationship between toothless and the hiccup is a nice one. I don't like the date. I genuinely miss that. He didn't have that. He was missing a leg. They

Sidey:It's like a hook. He's got a metal appendage. It's got her, the clasps into the,

Reegs:So do they in the movie, do they bond over their

Dan:Well in the first one he lost his leg

Reegs:at the same time as tailfin, as what is his

Dan:the same in the same film.

Sidey:they they have to sort of go over it together.


Sidey:and he's hiccup is the sort of young. So the son of the the chief


Sidey:and all his

Dan:who's an absolute unit. He's an absolute,

kind of, he's a proper bike. And when you think Viking, chief, you think this guy and hiccup is a slip

of a lot, really?


And in the crew there's, Astraea, who's really narky and quite rough and violent and funny.

You got. Fish legs. He was a massive dude, but a bit sort of, of a NOV snot that is really rowdy and a bit of a sort of gazer. And then you've got the two twins are always up to no good. And it's a, it's a good gang and hiccups sort of seems like the young quiet one, but he is the one who has to grow and show all the leadership cat characteristics.

So the films are really good. There's another series which my daughter was super fucking obsessed with, which is how to train your dragon race to the edge. There's about seven series of that. We've seen about three times through. They're also really good

Reegs:Are they all set in a Viking

Sidey:Yeah. Yeah. This one though I'd say was less good because it's a gentle kind of Christmas special and there are no real stakes in this.

Reegs:Christmas specials are always a bit one and done in the episode as well.

There's not

Dan:to be

fair, I could have chosen any of these. I

mean, when

we when we, put it out, we chose, we chose to a franchise

there Well, at least you watched it. I guess


yeah. I thought these were fantastic. On the first time I saw them and I take your point, you know, there, there are better

version and

there's lots I haven't seen, but I,

liked, I really liked them and they have, the books are really good as well.

So there's, these are based on a book.

Reegs:quite like if mine got interested in,

Sidey:All I'm saying about this particular episode is that this isn't the one that will hook you in. It's probably not the best example of

Reegs:I can tell you that none of them will hook me in, but


Dan:you learn a lot.


Sidey:the kids, maybe my, my daughter fucking loves it. It's been completely binned off, you know, how they go from like like it has to be watched at all times of the day too.

It's gone with an instant something else, but she still listens to the audio books every night. And she did use her birthday money to buy all the toys. Let's say she's fucking really into it. And for something that's on the tele, when it's on in the background, this is one of the better ones for me.

Dan:Yeah I, I can, I can dip into this

and I can, I

can quite enjoy, I think because of


the detail they've

gone into

in the dragons and

the different types of

dragons and


different things that they do

and the imagination there

is just fantastic. And we

had books for Christmas

and things. So when you go, they've got

all the history

Sidey:of, yeah. They really do try and build up the law around it all. And there's a lot of wealth building. There's different kingdoms and it's kind of like kitties game of game, game of Thrones, I suppose. Is this all right? You can get on with it.

Reegs:but yeah, probably we'd quite like to get on with it. But I haven't.

Sidey:only if the kids are watching it.


Sidey:I would say the movies are excellent. I mean, movies are

Reegs:I mean, as a sort of 43 year old man coming at this for the first time, not knowing anything else about it, it lit the animations really good.

The voice cast is really good. There was some interesting stuff going on with toothless and hiccup and meet lugs and all the other room. But it was baffling. It really was.


I can, I can see that

as as

coming through. I didn't. As a say, choose probably the best episode to hook

you into

into it, but it'll give you a flavor and


Reegs:Flavor is salty

Dan:Solti right?

Sidey:Well that good. Huh? Another podcast in the can. That was really quite good. And some good nominations. Dan, thanks for that. Pete is obviously not here tonight, but he has given me his nominations for next week when he will be back with,

Dan:should we decide to take them after we hear them.

Sidey:Well, let's, let's have a thing after I've told you top five, we're keeping it basic is top five DeNiro films, My mind, all that down to scenes. I don't know if that makes any difference. The mid week we're going to go for slamming salmon. That was a listener request.


Sidey:A movie. We're going to go for Moonlight. I don't know. That's why I'm saying we'd like to do this a real piece. So, so Moonlight and then disenchantment season one episode one for the kids.

Reegs:So the Matt groaning thing. Okay.

Dan:No Nice choice. Pete.

Sidey:Sounds pretty sounds pretty good. Good

Dan:week of viewing. I've wanted to see

Reegs:I think this is probably Pete Peter's best ever contribution

Sidey:Not being announced

Reegs:this week, those nominations and not being here.

He did do a blog. It was very good. I have to say,

Dan:the website.

Sidey:Yeah, it is on the website. Baghdad's

Reegs:I was going to see if I was going to ask Dan, I was going to say, I'll offer you a tender, if you could tell us the website

Dan:I would've gone

for that.

I could do, I could do. Yeah. Maybe if

Sidey:of course subject for mine, but I haven't got around to writing it. It's been a bit fucking chaotic at the moment.

Dan:I would like that I'd like to. I really

appreciate the, the listeners putting in that one

actually for is to watch

that slam in salmon.

I'm going to look forward

Sidey:that. I've never heard of it. It's Michael Clark Duncan, isn't it? Yes. I like him.

Dan:Okay. I'm going to give that a go this

week and if anybody else has got some, then let us know.

Sidey:Yep. Do you get in touch with us on a said website also? We're always on Twitter. Knocking about on there, come and chat to us. All that remains is to say Sadie signing out.

Dan:Dan's gone.