Midweek Mention... Face/Off

Face Off

Jonathan:

Part one of what I can only assume was a targeted trolling of me, this week's content, Pete. Is that any, any shred of truth to that?

Peter: A little bit. Yeah.

Jonathan: So this is an, a Nicholas cage, not exclusively Nicholas cage joint, but

he's in it face off

Peter: is in it. Yep. And it, it was, I think it, what it we'd we'd had a departure from the themed weeks, so I wanted to return and return with a vengeance and, and that's, that's the road I went down this week. So for the midweek

Simon: why, why face off just outta of interest, out of all, is it your top cage movie or cuz he could have had con air or, you know, if he had

Peter: so I think that there's, this is probably widely considered to be like. A trilogy of like iconic cage films. And they would be con air the rock and this one, and we've already done the rock. And I think that was my nomination as well, but that's more because of Sean.

But, and con air, I just knew that I couldn't put side through the, the bunny in the box scene, so I

Jonathan: well, we did,

Peter: unknowingly, but but yeah, with, with face off. I remember seeing it years and years ago and thinking it was ludicrous, but fucking brilliant. Brilliant because of how ludicrous it was, but kind of not taking itself seriously, but still being,

Simon: treating the premise seriously enough, even though it's completely outlandish. So not buying, you know, not ridiculing itself and yeah. Anyway.

Yeah. Should we, should we get crack in with this then or John w 19 97 97 movie.

Peter: Mm-hmm

Simon: It wants to lead us out.

Daniel: Well, how did it start res what's the opening opening scene there because you're normally good at

Simon: well, it's pretty, it's pretty memorable. Isn't it? We've got twinkly sort of dramatic music. And then we're looking at a carousel children laughing, John Travolta, kissing.

What I hope is his son, but you never can tell in Hollywood

Daniel: you've. You've got Nick cage, who what's his name?

Peter: cast Troy

Daniel: Troy castor. Troy. So he's.

Travolta in the line of sight here. And he actually holds as it circles round because the, the sites go on the boy and he doesn't want that. And he waits until. His backs to him and he shoots him in the back.

Of course the bullet goes right through. That's the opening, isn't it? Yeah

Peter: Yeah. Yeah.

It's quite a,

it's opening. It is a brutal, it is a brutal opening.

Simon: It's pretty melodramatic. It's slowmo. We've had already a little scene of, of Travolta and his son bonding where he runs his hand down his face in a thing that is repeated throughout the

Peter: a thing. I, I think it's, it's, it's kind of already apparent that this is some sort of like flashback or memory or something like that because it's, it's sort of like

Daniel: soft

Peter: colored and like you say, in slowmo and there's.

Simon: there.

Peter: There's

Jonathan: there's tons of slowmo

Peter: Yeah But not

Simon: w staple, isn't

Peter: not sort of like slowmo for dramatic effect. Just

Jonathan: kind. What is, what is the hand down the face thing?

Cause when it happened, it hit the Mises turned to me and went don't fucking do that. Well,

Peter: Well, no, obviously, no it's for people who love each other. So it's, it's like, it's just

Simon: a, I wouldn't like

Peter: of affection.

I mean, I don't do it, but like a, you know, a little, might a little stroke down the

Jonathan: literally like smearing something down their

Peter: it's their thing.

Jonathan: Weird. It's really weird.

Peter: and, and it, obviously it forms a bit of a, it's a plot device for later on

Daniel: my butt and then

Peter: yeah,

Jonathan: get that. Yeah. Dirty Sanchez.

Peter: scratch and sniff.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a feature, but it is, it's a bit of a plot device for later on as well. So it might have been written in retrospective. Perhaps anyway, six years on. Yeah. And there's some chal music. Yeah. And this is the first of many ridiculous mega acting

Simon: some mega acting don't we? And we get a meme basically because when he squeezes the choir girls' ass he makes this face that has become a meme basically now. but

Peter: singing hallelujah. And he's almost like climaxing as he's like joining in with it. And but just before that we've seen him like arming a bomb of some description.

Yeah. Quite

Simon: a Siggy as well while he was doing it

Peter: as well. Why smoking a ciggy arming a bomb. That's how much of that's the international sign of a badass right there.

Simon: Yeah. He's an inter he's a terrorist.

But you don't really ever find out what cause he's fighting for or who he's working

Jonathan: men just wanna watch the world burn.

Yeah

Simon: I guess.

Peter: Yeah. And you know, you know, he's a badass because in the, the

Jonathan: got bad.

Peter: Yeah, no, he hasn't got much of a badass haircut. It's a bit of a.

Jonathan: Oh. I thought the like hairline and fringe was pretty

Daniel: bad, dumb and

Peter: No, I thought it was a bit kind of like monkey almost not, not monkey. I mean, monkey

esque. Yeah.

Because he just recently sort of subscribed to the clergy.

Yeah. And he was like, trying to fit in with that. Maybe could be.

Simon: could be

Peter: but yeah, you, you find out you for definite that he's about us cuz in the next scene there's like an airport kind or an air, an aircraft hang. Scene. And he, someone, one of his Heman brings him out a big box of drugs. I nice. Which has got like, you know, all the different drugs, because that's what you do.

You carry

Daniel: chicklets those little, those little chewing gum things,

Simon: that was clearly a cage touch that I think, and, and in

Daniel: four or five. What looked to be terribly rolled joints and and a few kind of coins and, and stuff or pills and blue pills and red pills

Simon: and his iconic gold guns.

Daniel: Yeah,

Jonathan: The studio says oh, the, the passengers are here.

I'll have to go. And she sort of welcomes them on board and she then sits on his lap and I like, how far was that gonna go? Because it turns out she's undercover. Yeah. So was she gonna blow him

Simon: Yeah, I wonder that tongue. Yeah,

Jonathan: Yeah. Cause it was full on. I thought they were gonna fuck, like she was committed to her undercover.

Role, she was gonna fuck him.

Simon: We're only sort of five minutes into the movie and cage is now sexually assaulted two women which is quite interesting. Yeah. Meanwhile Sean Archer, John Travolta is hot on his collar. Isn't he? He's, he, he wants him and he knows that polls, Troy cast his brother as chartered this aircraft and he knows that Polyx doesn't fly without castor.

So he knows that they'll be.

and they track him down.

Jonathan: Yeah. And

Daniel: And everyone goes,

Simon: kicks off. This is a great scene.

Daniel: there's a

Jonathan: chicken with the

aircraft

Daniel: on the, on the runway. Yeah.

Peter: And

then with a helicopter.

Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah. But there's a great scene where they're they're he goes from chicken to swerving around and chasing.

Yeah. And he leans the, he opens, you know, they doors armed to automatically whatever the fuck they say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And dangles the women out the FBI and says one of yours. Yeah. And just fucking guns her down and then throws her on the floors. Fucking brutal.

Simon: the fluid. Yeah, it

Daniel: Yeah, it is. I thought the the tires were gonna roll over

Jonathan: She never, she never danced again.

Peter: we're in no doubt at this point that, that he is he's the Badie

Simon: Badie eventually the plane that he's on. Yeah. Travolta gets a helicopter on it and the plane gets crashed into a warehouse. And then Troy comes out blazing, leaping in slow motion. Classic John woo style hero poses for Archer Polyx is taken down Casta, Troy escapes into the shadows and he goes to, to find him.

And eventually there's like a shootout next to a running jet engine. Mm. And they each only have a bullet left. Yeah. It's all high stake

Peter: is high stakes, but at this point caster, Troy has revealed that there is a bomb.

Before Archer can capture him and, and extract that information from him. He gets like blown down this kind of like weird

Jonathan: He gets knocked in front of the jet engine. Yeah. And gets, gets

Simon: Not before a good bit of classic cage, mega acting where he's he's he knows that he's down, he's got, I'm heading for the big RA babies. Like,

Peter: And then he's like pretending to like cry and beg for his life while he's reaching for another gun. Yeah,

Daniel: Yeah, it was interesting. Cuz the I looked up about this film and the scene where he pushed a gal from the, yeah, the plane is actually it wasn't in the script and. So he really, yeah. Yeah. He just went full, full method there, like, you know, and he does that a few times.

He does that a few times in this film. A lot of people will hide that fact nowadays, but

Jonathan: it's frowned of him really? He's frowned. Yeah.

Peter: Yeah. They don't do that anymore, but

Jonathan: perhaps they should

Peter: you learn from these

Daniel: sort of, yeah. Yeah. That's it. But

it's an

Simon: So anyway, Troy is incapacitated, eventually faces in the shadows. You can't see him. And then back at Arch's house, his daughter is Dominic Swain. She's been suspended for being a goth,

Jonathan: basically.

Simon: And starting a fight with someone

Daniel: guilty.

Peter: that's a good enough reason. I think

Simon: she's like struggling to find her identity, but she's about 20 and she's behaving like a 12 year old.

Peter: Well, they've given her a guy's name. Jamie. Jamie. Yeah.

Jonathan: she's like a Hollywood version of a goth as well. I think it's not like, she's not like Robert Smith.

Peter: quite hot.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Joan Allen's there. She's also really horny Eve.

Simon: Eve. Yeah. His wife,

Jonathan: John Travo was pretending to be straight as usual.

Simon: Yeah. Archer gets a slow clap back when he comes back to

Jonathan: he's not keen on

Simon: he's a real Dick about it. Yeah. He gets like a slow clap for finally capturing castor Troy.

Daniel: And he, he kind of rammed it back in their faces. And this is for all the,

Simon: to the agents who died.

Jonathan: Yeah. Which is kind of right. He's right. To do that.

Peter: Yeah. I mean, let's right. The, the context here is that this is six years after the the opening kind of flashback scene.

So this is like six years.

of

Daniel: him still Chas looking

Peter: chasing Troy and looking for, you

Jonathan: someone's, someone's left them a bottle of champagne and he says, well, we'll have a drink to X, Y, and Z. Who've all snuffed it. But then after that, and then when things escalate, he's got a pretty cavalier attitude to people's life, especially during the breakout, we we'll get onto it.

Simon: I do like that. He has a drink and he looks at photos of his dead son, and then he presses a button to dramatically close the case, even though all they've done is take him into custody.

It is like quite a long way in the judicial process to go before you can see

Daniel: he has that kind of over, he just pinches his forehead. Doesn't he? And just right. Well, that's it. That's all done now. Story's over. We're all going home. We're expecting credits to

Peter: says to it wife it's over,

Daniel: but no, it's not over. It's not

Jonathan: categorically, not over.

Daniel: because it's only like 20 minutes in

Peter: There's they find a disc.

Simon: Yeah. Well it's Hollis Miller is CCH pounder,

Jonathan: It was, it was a zip drive. Remember them?

Peter: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do remember zip drives. Yeah.

Jonathan: Like a big fat floppy disc.

Simon: they say this bomb? Right? I wrote it down because I didn't understand it.

It will have a fallout worse than Gulf war syndrome,

Jonathan: which isn't an Airborn thing. No. Cause it was based on the drugs that they gave him.

Simon: yeah. like post-traumatic stress and stuff. So.

Okay. You said

Jonathan: Yeah. Okay. Um but it saided like a mile like the blast radius was a mile or something. Take out a few blocks. People would die. Presumably.

Simon: Yeah. So we've got this bomb.

We don't know where it is. We know it's gonna go off Casta. Troy, the only man who knows about it or is he no is incapacitated, but the other person who knows about it, they think is Polyx. Yeah.

Daniel: His brother.

Simon: Yeah. Yeah. And they prove that Troy is being kept alive in a vegetative state. When they go to see him. Did you see this by stabbing a cigarette out on him?

which seems a bit,

Daniel: yeah.

Jonathan: It's the, it's the only known medical way.

Simon: yeah. To test it. Yeah. And then Kofi,

Daniel: this was back in the nineties.

Simon: Yeah That is how he did things then. Yeah. Kofi's been in trouble this week. I think he can do physical alterations and transformations. They explain in about three minutes.

Peter: This is Dr. Malcolm Walsh.

Daniel: I

Simon: he built his friend Lu his ear

Jonathan: That's right.

Simon: was shot

Daniel: me looking at this back in the day, you would've gone well, that's ridiculous. But nowadays you think, I think they're doing that now. They, they like beyond it

Jonathan: face full face transport was five years after this film. Right. And the guy lost his face in a dog attack the same year as this film coincidence. I don't think so.

Simon: not, it's not a coincidence. The explanation of the process is just fucking amazing. They're just like, oh, we're gonna take your face. And then we're gonna take this synthetic like skull that we've made, then you're gonna overlay in that. By the other time, we're gonna put this face in the water over here.

Then we've got some microphone to change your voice. We're also gonna do some body transformation. Alright.

Peter: And

take and take some of his chest hair out

Simon: Yeah. And what I think is it really necessary for him to have a haircut while they're doing the surgery

Daniel: There was

Simon: Cause she comes in and they're

Peter: the same time,

Simon: stylist like, listen,

Daniel: to get the Tony and guy going there that, that late hour,

Peter: if I was in there having all of this work done, like having a breast reduction done or something like that, I'd probably go, you might as well just cut my hair while

you're there.

Yeah.

Saves the bother of booking. One that

Jonathan: we've not said is the only way, the only possible like plausible way that they can gain any Intel about the location bomb is to swap their

Simon: Yes

Peter: Yeah. It's Not

interrogation or

Jonathan: nowadays. They were just waterboard him.

Peter: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But that that's inhumane where it's putting out cigarettes on people that are in, in custody and comas.

It reminded me, I can't remember that I've written down like TRANSPORATION or whatever ends morph verification or whatever

Jonathan: Trans oh, from team America,

Peter: team America where they, they adapt his features. You still not seeing that though?

Have have to watch it. We have to watch it at some time.

Daniel: Isn't it?

Simon: It makes

Peter: but it's, it's unbelievably funny, hilarious puppets. Okay. It's brilliant.

Simon: kind of ends up being, you know, like a little bit like a body swapping comedy, like freaky Friday,

Jonathan: I did think that the faces, when they put them in the water, that would really good.

Yeah. But the other bit, when they just like laser a bit and then their face just come off, like it's only attached

Peter: got like a sucker thing that goes

Jonathan: but

but, the skin on your face is only just attached, like around the, the, the, the

Peter: Yeah. You don't have

Jonathan: comes off dead easy.

Peter: Yeah. After that,

Simon: whole bit is like, as, as an ex example of filmmaking, it's brilliant because they just present you with this utterly ridiculous, but plausible within the logic of this world scenario and you just, and they explain it in about three minutes and then they just do it while they're explaining

Peter: I think if you're gonna, if you're gonna turn this film Mo if you haven't already turned it off because you can't stand Nicholas's cage then, but you you're turning it off because, oh, this is now getting ridiculous.

This is the point at which you're gonna turn it off. If you've got this far and you're gonna carry on. I think you you're strapped in for the rest

Daniel: clues. The title though, isn't

Simon: Yeah.

Peter: Yeah. Well, yeah, but it could have just been two people facing

Jonathan: that's. Yes. Which is why this, they left the forward slash it's phase forward slash off.

And the studio said, no, get rid of that. And John was like, no, because people would think it's a hockey film.

Peter: Wow. Okay. right.

Jonathan: why that's there

Simon: Face off.

Peter: Yeah. So Archer, and this is where he gets confusing when talking about it. So Archer as Troy

Jonathan: Mm.

Peter: is now he gets put in the maximum security prison that polls Troy is being held in.

Yeah.

Jonathan: In the city. Mario

boots

Simon: Yes. Yeah.

Jonathan: yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. recycled them. It was nice to see. And obviously he needs to get the information. He.

Pretend to be castor Troy to the brother. Who's the only other person who may know where this bomb is.

And after a few little scuffles, including one big fight in the, in the mess room. Yeah. He, he thinks he's got it. He, he goes, and he says, oh, well, it's in the, what was it in the, the DC kind of convention

Simon: Convention center enter LA convention

Daniel: you very much. Smugly goes. And backing through his cell where visitor comes.

Simon: I mean, but in that though in that scuffling stuff, you get two really cool moments cuz you get cage pretending to be John DTA, pretending to be Nick cage. Yeah. And you get Also like the utterly baffling moment where they try to ring tension out of the fact that polls might immediately suspect that Casta, Troy is not that's right.

Who, yeah, this guy's faces like straight away. It's like, oh, that is the most plausible thing I can think

Daniel: ible thing. Cause what's just happened while, while this is happening in a jail, it kind of cuts doesn't it? And it goes back to the fact that caster Troy is woken up.

Jonathan: He is an undertaker. He just bowl upright. Like where's my face going.

Simon: Yeah.

Daniel: He, he, he takes it reasonably well.

Peter: Well, he's kind of like going a little bit, but yeah,

Daniel: but he pulls the boys in, who brings the doctor to perform the, the surgery to

Simon: It is the only logical thing to do. Isn't it

Peter: he needs a face and there just happens to be like, Sean arch is lying there.

Simon: and he should also get the full physical transformation and the haircut and

Peter: why not?

Daniel: And then go and turn up at the prison just to rub it in, which is when Nick cage,

Peter: hang on. Let's let's not skirt over the, the, like Troy's transformation into Archie.

You got the bit where. they, they come in and he's like smoking. Yeah. Like, ah, like, I mean,

Daniel: oh no. I mean, that is gonna come because you see it more

Simon: but not,

Peter: yeah, no, this, this is before he is gone into the prison. This is like before he is had Archer's face put on, but he's smoking without a face.

Simon: Yeah.

Daniel: Oh,

Peter: and,

and,

and he kind of like, and, and at one bit you don't see, you see it from the back, but he like puts his finger against his skin and you hear like a, sort of a squelchy noise and then he pulls out this blood there and then the fella comes in. The, the doctor comes in. And he comes right up to him and you don't see it full on, but you see like the reflection in his glasses or whatever of his like faceless face.

Yeah. Which is all pretty gruesome. And makes me feel a little bit queasy.

Jonathan: don't they kill him.

Can't they kill the

Peter: Yeah Yeah. They burn

Jonathan: delete all the records of,

Peter: burn him and a couple of other people, there was like some burden

Simon: the beginning as well. It's Travolta tells that doctor. Oh, I want you to replace the scar. That was back when, when this is all over, it's just funny because this guy dies then. And then he tells the same, a completely different doctor at the end about that scar again.

And they don't have the guy go, what are you talking about? Cuz I, yeah, I wasn't there.

Daniel: no, he just goes, I don't want it anyway. Doesn't

Peter: you can, if you can suspend your disbelief.

Simon: Oh no, you don't. I fucking love this movie. so I know I'm like pulling apart how ridiculous it is. Yeah. But it is absolutely brilliant.

Peter: So yeah. As you, as you say, Dan, so that. That the, the, you know, Archer as Troy has, has done what he needed to do. He's extracted the location of the bomb. He's gone into the, to the, to a room like a holding cell or whatever, feeling, pretty pleased with himself, cuz it's it's over.

And now he can just go back to, to life as, as normal. But he can't because Troy as Archer,

Daniel: thi this for me was the best scene in, in the whole film. And I. Certainly. Okay. You can look at some of the actions, shots and go that's, that's amazing. But these two facing off in that first, because I really sort of Nick cage of all people really pulling in that kind of just.

How gutted he looks like, you know, just how just bro confused and broken, like the, and at the same time, Travolta like a, a lion, just kind of walking around him, enjoying every single minute

Peter: Cause like Travolta has now got to like dial in a load of mega acting. Yeah. For the, for the most part of the remainder of the film.

Daniel: you know, there's a, there's a few, there's a few things that volt was still D I mean, I, I really enjoy watching him as, as an actor.

And I went through like lots of films where he didn't really hit it off for him. But even then just within a film, I'll see something I like about volt, a smile or a away he moves or something or a way he delivers a line. It still makes me think, oh, he is, you know, I'll watch it. If he's

Peter: gives it the, see anything you like.

Yeah. Yeah. With his, with the wedding ring.

So it's, I know side's smiling over there anyway. So now

Simon: well now it gets really hard in my notes. I didn't know who to

Jonathan: who to

Simon: who was

well, yeah. I didn't know who, how to classify. Who was, who like, because

Peter: I've written Troy's Archer and Archer as Troy.

Simon: All right. Okay. But sometimes when you're watching you forget, like you look at cage and you're like, is that Travolta?

Oh, no, it's not because they're doing impressions. It's good. yeah. Anyway so castor who is now arch?

Goes

off to, he goes back to sort of

Jonathan: well effectively rapes

Simon: thingy's wife.

Jonathan: Yeah. She's so hot.

Simon: Yeah. And he does look at, he describes her ass as a peach, like he did earlier and he fill her up and she hasn't had any loving in a long time.

So, and later she says, oh, I lived this man and wife with him for a week.

Peter: yeah.

like, it was really tender.

Simon: Yeah.

Daniel: And yeah.

Peter: Yeah. But I mean, I think it's what what's been apparent in previous scenes is that there's, there's been some tension in the relationship for, for obvious reasons. I mean, they've gone through a fucking severe trauma.

Yeah. And then obviously his life, you know, Travolta or Archer, the original Archer's life has been. You know, getting, you know, at least like capturing Troy, making him pay for his crimes and stuff. So that's obviously taking a massive burden on the relationship with the, with the wife, with the

Simon: Yeah.

Peter: And now Troy's Archer is rocking up and sort of like, well, first of all, he drives straight past the house. Yeah. Cause as you would but then he like comes in,

Jonathan: well, that's on the anniversary of

Peter: yeah, yeah, yeah, no, the next day, the next day is,

Jonathan: Is that his

Peter: Yeah. The next day is, is, was their son's birthday, but.

but he, he makes absolutely no attempt to behave. Like Sean Archer had been behaving.

Jonathan: He's not a full, chill hasn

Peter: I guess he's dialed it down. He's not, he's not being a

Daniel: complete,

he's trying to get away of it

Jonathan: like cast of Troy is a deranged maniac, so he's not able to be a family man that easily. It's not, doesn't come naturally

Peter: suppose he's managed to dial

Simon: at one point it looks like he's trying to fuck his own daughter. So when you say, be a family, man.

Jonathan: Well, that's, that's keeping it

Simon: cause they have a ciggy together, don't they? And they chill out. I love this stuff. Like, you know, they're in each other's shoes, they improve each other's lives.

Cuz it happens with cast Troy as Archer or whatever Archer is cast of Troy later. You know, that's John woo is interested in all this character stuff that you were talking about. Peter is he is all the big stuff as well. That's what makes this movie like really excellent. Yeah. So polls gets set free by Archer for turning state's evidence.

So it's and what hunky

Daniel: he gets, he who's the

the,

cop, the captain that comes in, he says, it's not like you to do a deal Archer.

And then he gives him a helping hand with a heart attack that he's he's having. So it just helps his career progress progress a little

Simon: Well, he's already,

Peter: later in the film, but that's the director.

Daniel: Oh,

Simon: that's the director Laro I think is he's

Peter: director. Laro

Daniel: around the time that he's given his brother a pardon? Isn't it.

And they're having the conversation with him

Simon: and he's time man of the year, the head of a cover operation. what

Peter: well what he does because he rather, because he, he sees an opportunity. Troy has Archer sees an opportunity to, to be like, you know, fucking untouchable by, he then goes off to the LA convention center, whatever the hell it is. And diffuses the Bob tells all like the bomb squad guys to get out like, oh, just give us a moment.

I think he maybe likes another C. He

Simon: a folding of his jacket that is very knit cage, like yeah, like really deliberately

Peter: and diffuses the bomb. So the bomb really was like, it was, it was a, a literal device, but also a plot device. Yeah. Because I'm expecting, you know, at some point in a film like this, you think, or that, that that's, it, the film is gonna be about stopping the bomb going off forever.

But you know, the, the guy who, who set it armed, it is the one who just switches it off. Like pretty calmly, even

Jonathan: though two seconds to go yeah.

Peter: three seconds to go, but then takes all the, the applaud dates

Daniel: and

no nobody questions. The fact that, that bomb. I know we just have to. To suspend belief again. But you know, because those guys were just saying with like two minutes to go in the big kind of bomb suits, who they say, no, this has got triggers all over here.

He's like, nobody

Jonathan: leave it to me last,

Simon: Yeah.

Daniel: leave it to, I'll do it with two seconds to SP they must have

Peter: and have a cup of tea and

Daniel: I just got lucky.

Jonathan: but things, things get extra weird. Because Gina Han turns up yeah. With a child. Haircut and appearance are very similar to, to, to John Travolta's dead kid. Yeah. So that's not at all creepy. No.

Peter: That might become

Jonathan: really fucking weird at the end. Yeah.

yeah.

Peter: Yeah. So Troy's Archer likes to celebrate all of this stuff, goes back and, and does Archer's wife again and then inside the prison, that's when you have like the, the escape, which was pretty kind of convoluted and clumsy, it didn't seem like a foolproof way.

I mean, he's, he's worked out the only time that you're gonna ever have your boots taken.

 it's very much based on luck. This,

Jonathan: but they always are.

Peter: goes into the, into the room where they're getting basically like lobotomized

Simon: something. Yeah.

Peter: And just so happens that the fella that's been being lobotomized ahead of him is someone that he knows.

Or I think he like Troy fucked his wife and his daughter or

Jonathan: sister that's. Right. Yeah.

Peter: like that. And so he uses that to, to

Daniel: leverage. Yeah. Yeah.

Peter: And then it's a bit of a, like you say, yeah, there's, there's some collateral damage there. There's some, some genuine like prison wardens get off

Jonathan: So he's gone from like pouring one out for all the, the dead homies, the CIA, but now he's just like, you can all die.

Simon: it's part of his survival mode. Now it's part of his journey into Casta, Troy as well. He's becoming the thing he despises you see?

Jonathan: it's layered

Simon: more as well. There's more

Peter: like an onion. Yeah. Yeah.

Simon: And when he does eventually escape after the, the lobotomizing place, he finds that he's on an oil rig in the middle of nowhere.

Dun

Peter: You say you're middle of nowhere, but this is my preferred fourth time going through it is the first time I've noticed it as he jumps off, you can see. So he's not, he's not that far from the coast. So who

Daniel: that with the first shot, doesn't it? That it's surrounded by sea, but actually when he jumps forward, lands a mile of two off.

Yeah.

Simon: he phones.

When he gets to land, he phones his wife and he tries to warn the Archer.

he says he is, and she hung hangs up the phone, but you can see immediately she's thinking I haven't had this good in you. So

Daniel: I knew something was up

Simon: Cage hides from the police, but of course he's white in America. So. Fine. It's fine. Then not even looking for him. Are they?

Peter: but he goes to the, the house of his like henchman,

Simon: the guy earlier who'd said to him, how's your son is

Peter: Oh yeah. Cheers for that. Yeah. Who is the, also the brother of

Simon: Gina Gerian

Peter: Gershwin or

Simon: whatever Yeah

Peter: and Right.

So anyway, they go

Simon: they bring him his drugs and he has a SUPA Dean and flips out into mega acting again.

Peter: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. That is good. And then he wakes up and then we have the scene with Gina Gershwin sort of like basically telling him at that point that Adam. Is his son. Yeah. Yeah.

But obviously it's not his son cuz he's

Jonathan: not him. Yeah. Yeah.

Peter: So now Sean Archer realizes

she

Jonathan: didn't suspect that they'd swap faces. She's like an idiot. Cause everyone else that's the first thing they thought

Peter: are straight on. What, what

Simon: Dickhead

Peter: medicine again? Dick head . Yeah.

then there's

Simon: well uh back at Archer's house Danny Masterson from that seventies show or whatever it

Jonathan: Oh, yeah.

Simon: comes along and tries to molest his daughter.

Jonathan: It's a lot of like kid fucking and stuff going on.

Simon: Yeah. Yeah. And Travolta is having none of it. He's like, I'm the only one who's allowed to sexually assault people around here.

Peter: You mean Troy as

Simon: you mean

Peter: Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Daniel: he, he. Smashes a window, drags him out there and beating his shit out of him.

Simon: So that improved that relationship

Peter: Well, it does. Yeah. Yeah. This is how you, this is how you really bond with

Daniel: Well, he gives her a knife after that,

Simon: well, he gives a good bit of victim blaming first as well, because he basically says, oh, you dressed like a slot. You deserved it. Didn't it. When, when she comes in

Jonathan: and then he gives her a switch blade and says, next time, stab him in the leg.

Peter: are all like Sage

Jonathan: twist it. Doesn't stop bleeding. Yeah. Sage advice. Yeah.

Peter: advice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. The house, the FBI come and like led by Troy as Archer come to basically like obliterate the entire house, bearing in mind that this.

This is cast Casta. Troy, who is leading this attack. This is his like, like mate is like henchman. Yeah. A bird who he's like fucked. He doesn't know he is got a son with, but still like an old flame and all of his, like, like mates and like girl, like girls and stuff like that. And he's ah, just fucking take them

Simon: I just imagine like arches, like second in command going boss. Do you reckon we should like maybe go in a bit stealthy or nah, fuck it.

Let's just go and kill everyone.

Peter: It's. But no, no, they, it is like full kind of like SWAT team coming in through every angle. And yeah, it's an absolute blood bath.

Simon: Yeah.

Jonathan: Pollocks dies.

Doesn't

Peter: poll

Simon: stars. Oh, there's windows breaking. There's bodies flying. There's people being shotgunned as like, as shot as they're being repelling down, they're getting shotgunned.

There's people like spraying Uzis across the floor all the while Adam, the kid is listening to somewhere over the rainbow by Olivia Newton,

Daniel: Yeah

Peter: yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's kind of playing at some points of it where it

Daniel: there's a few hero runs and, and

Simon: it's brilliant. Yeah,

it's

Daniel: Yeah. Pollock dies through the glass window at the, the top smashing through the glass roof.

Peter: Archer as Troy's fault, cuz he's chasing him

Daniel: and then slow

Jonathan: slow motion for

probably

Daniel: yeah, they definitely slowed it down a little bit. But then he, he's kind of mourning the death of him and another cop comes around and says, what are you so upset for?

That's you know, he just turns

Jonathan: around. Have you swap faces with someone?

Daniel: Just

shoots. Yeah.

Simon: yeah. Shoots him. Yeah. And then it's like a showdown and they're in this room where it's like an atrium with columns and they're hiding behind it. Travolta's running really fast in a circle round. it's like when you think about it. Yeah,

Peter: Yeah.

Simon: And then eventually there's like a mirror and a partition

Peter: a what

Jonathan: mirror,

mirror?

Peter: a mirror.

Jonathan: And uh

Simon: And he's saying, I dunno what I hate wearing most your face or your body. And then he says he enjoys boning his wife, but let's swap back. And then they, they,

Peter: goes, and then he says like, and then it's like, or plan B, let's just kill each other.

Simon: Yeah. And then they turn back and they both look into the mirror at the thing they hate most in the world. The thing that's, you know, these two

Daniel: is

Simon: spirits in war, very poignant. Yeah. Yeah. And they shoot big shoot out.

Peter: Yeah. And

Daniel: Big I miss from, yeah.

Peter: That's

when it goes goes back to the, to the headquarters and that's where Troy's arch. Like off the, the, was it the general with the, with the heart attack?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

yeah, And so now then it, it gets a little bit,

Jonathan: well, they got on boats and

Peter: well, so so, it is decided

Simon: so it is decided oh no no no but

Eve gets in on it. This is great because he tells her the only thing couldn't fake was the blood and she's a doctor. And so she. Jabs him while he is sleeping, takes a blood sample from him and then tests.

So she knows. Now,

Daniel: She didn't get a test from the other guy though. Did she? But she just knows. She

Peter: no, he cuz he broke a MI, he broke a picture and like cut his hand. He had blood all over him anyway. So he's left some of his own blood and then she extracts some

Jonathan: did you notice his glycohemoglobin levels in the

Simon: Were they very high?

Jonathan: They were over 6.5%, which means he was probably diabetic.

Nice little nice little detail in there

Peter: Yeah. Another thing to worry about

Daniel: was that

Simon: was that Travolta? I could imagine Travolta being diabetics. Good character. Is that shaming him? No, I just, he looks kind of he's Scientologist. Didn't he? So, diabetic. Think so Yeah

Peter: the fuck are you going with this?

Simon: yeah.

So yeah, now she knows that actually Nick cage is her husband.

Peter: Yeah well, it's decided, and even though she's, she's on board with that, but she, she knows. This can't just be like a quick reveal, but it's all decided by everybody that are the funeral. That's where it's all gonna

Simon: go. Yeah, it's gonna

Peter: gonna, that's definitely, everyone's gonna be there. And this is where it all needs to happen for dramatic

Daniel: on the beach,

Simon: The kids have all been squirrreled away. Haven't they.

Peter: Yeah. And again, another big shootout, lots of shootouts and, and, and face offs in

Simon: doves in this bit. Doves,

Jonathan: Yeah. That's a staple that the staple

scenes

Daniel: was one of those.

You had to turn the sound down, cuz it just all went crazy. It just, and then you'd have to the version. I did, didn't have the words

with

Peter: Same, same. I didn't have words.

Daniel: was playing with the volume, a lot of this film

Jonathan: whereas was on prime must have had. Yeah.

Peter: Yeah. Didn't have, I didn't

Simon: no, it didn't have words, actually.

I didn't. Yeah. There is a terrific sequence with boats, all practically done, smashing into each other. Yeah. Fight between it ends with the big fall where it become clear too

Jonathan: Yeah, I was gonna say,

Simon: different men.

Jonathan: it was just two white guys and, but nothing like the two leads, like

Simon: like that. And this beer even it's okay. You know, it's

Jonathan: Was,

Daniel: was a

stunt man, practical effect though.

Jonathan: virtually everything in this is

Daniel: The face

Peter: exactly Everything in

Jonathan: Like the face is coming

Peter: skiing in his bros. Like there's a guy actually

Simon: didn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Peter: sped it up a bit, but that was like, that looked sort of, yeah.

Simon: Yeah. he grabs the girl what's her name? Jamie in the end. And then he, like, he calls her peaches and licks her

Peter: Oh

yeah This is all before the speed boat that's before the speedboat stuff. Yeah. The speedboat is the finale that they, they crash onto the beach and that's when they have the final thing with the harpoon.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Peter: Yeah Troy is Troy's Archer starts like trying to, he knows he's he's done for, so he starts trying to like, just figure his own face and stuff.

Daniel: I thought that was a great touch

Simon: ride baby again.

Daniel: Yeah. I

Peter: And and then he eventually lets go and harpoon dead and all the, like the feds show up, but they've already had a tip off from me cuz they just take a word for a face value

Daniel: and yeah.

And they just, he goes, hi Archer. And he's just so happy that they recognize him for him. Yeah. And within moments more good news, cuz Eve they're saying they're flying in the doctor from Washington and he can do the full you're gonna be as good as ever.

Simon: This is the one, a completely different doctor that he says don't, don't put the scar back. And I really wanted him to say, what are you talking about?

you didn't tell

Jonathan: me. But yeah, they do like, then you get,

Peter: might have been in his

Jonathan: Is it is it immediately like back to the house? Everyone's really happy he walks through the

Simon: it is immediately

Jonathan: like PTSD or any like, yeah, like horrendous, like

Daniel: well, we're back almost into that soft

Jonathan: and not just mega happy is like, guess.

I've got a kid that looks like our kid and we can just, we can go back to how it

Simon: the

Jonathan: you know,

Simon: fuck. Yeah. It's amazing. Isn't it? It's amazing.

Daniel: go back end the, yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing. That bit was just, yeah, the most ridiculous out of all the film. Really? I

Peter: quite, it was

Simon: quite, it's incredible.

Daniel: trying to, they're just trying to tie up all

Jonathan: just imagine his messages, response being like. What the fuck we doing?

Peter: what are you doing?

Jonathan: Like breaking down in floods of tears and

Peter: on board with it.

It's our sound. I've got a brother. Yay. Yeah. Bizarre. Like it is a bizarre, I mean, that's the end, isn't it?

Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah.

Peter: it's a bizarre film. It's a bizarre concept. It's a cool concept, which I think you said at the beginning, it's like, some of it is, you know, ridiculously over elaborate, but in terms of like an action film, but with a, a I guess like what, how, whatever you wanna call it, like concept it's. Yeah, I think

Jonathan: once you, once you're on board with the concept, then, you know, if you just, it

Simon: it, it

Peter: get as ludicrous as you want.

Simon: it was originally more of a sci-fi type movie, but they put it back into the, what was then the modern day, but kept the sort of overall sci-fi element

Jonathan: it was gonna be um a and

Peter: sly.

Simon: Yeah. Imagine that I don't been something wouldn't

Peter: for that because of their ability to mega act, but not quite as much as, as cage. And it turns out to ter as well.

Simon: He's really

good in this.

Peter: I read that Michael Douglas was an executive producer on this

Jonathan: His, yeah. I clocked his name again. I didn't know whether it was this, that

Peter: he was, yeah, it was the Michael Douglas and legend has it, that this was the inspiration for the, I think it's Hong Kong film infernal.

But the guy who like

Jonathan: no, that would've been that would've

Peter: that's, that's what I read.

Simon: that was infernal affairs. They remade as

Peter: the departed they departed. Yeah. But I, well, we, we could fact we can fact check that quite easily, but I read, maybe our researcher can find out what year infernal affairs

Jonathan: I'm gonna go eighties for

Peter: my Okay.

Jonathan: But I could be wrong. It's always the first

Simon: This is great, man. It treats its premise. Ridiculous premise respectfully. It gets you in. It's got great stunts. It's one of my all time. Favorite Nick cage performances

Peter: 2002 infernal affairs. So, yep. And, and the guy who, who sort of directed that wanted to. Like can wanting to sort of like dumb down the actual face swapping stuff.

So just use it as like, you know, infiltration of each other's like bits and bobs. Yeah. Yeah. It is. That's why informal affairs is shy and this is amazing. I've never seen it and the department is good, but yeah, like, like you say, does everyone want the good news? There's a sequel coming

Simon: up. I know.

Jonathan: know, I know that they were, they were, I mean, arguing about it for a long

Peter: Yeah, apparently this is recently as last month. Well, well, I'd heard that they're trying to get cage back for it. Because he's kind of like what's the word in some dairy girl or whatever, again, in

Jonathan: well, he never really went away, Pete.

Simon: Mm.

Peter: Well, anyway we can address that in a, in a later episode. Yeah. It's meant be like an immediate, like, full, like proper sequel, not like gone off at another tangent or anything.

So what did we think?

Daniel: Yeah, well, it's, it's a big old action movie. Isn't it? You to be in the right mood? Uh This is probably I enjoyed it. I did enjoy watching it last night. It was. Probably my dose now for, you know, I don't need to watch face off again, probably for another 10 years or something, you know, it's but I watched it enjoyed it last night.

It is ridiculous, you know? But it's as action film goes big old mega acting films go. It's pretty decent, you know, it's, it's better than the average. It's not gonna blow your away and say, oh, that's a fantastic film, but there's always loads happening, even if it's just you moving up and down with the remote, with the volume.

Peter: and res you've already nailed your colors to the mast.

Simon: I'll watch again. Now

Peter: Yeah. yeah, I I'm. I'm there with you res. And so had you seen this before?

Yes.

Jonathan: Yeah Had seen for, yeah.

around the time it was released? I saw

Peter: enjoy it the first time? And did you enjoy it this time?

Jonathan: I remember think it was okay. This time, like really enjoyed the ness. So my interest curve, like right at the start of the first 45 minutes hour, like right at the top and then just like dwindled the way towards the end.

Yeah. Too much. Like the slow motion shit was really getting on my nerves. Yeah. And it was just like a little bit too long.

Peter: Yeah. It is

Jonathan: And I don't, I don't really, I, I probably. Explicitly said, I don't like Nick cage at some point on this podcast, but I've met. I've like really warned him, but I don't like Trata. So I find him, I find him hard to

Peter: Oh, well that, that next week's nominations are gonna be.

Jonathan: uh I just don't like him as a, like's not to say I don't enjoy his films, but I just think he's a prick. So I do bring that baggage with me when I watched something. So it was okay. I did enjoy it, but I like Dan. I would need to see it again ever.

Probably Twice as enough.

Peter: Good film.

Yeah.

Simon: Saudi's picked another fight with a celebrity.

Jonathan: and, and Scientology. Yeah. And that was you saying they've all got diabetes.