Midweek Mention... This Is England

This is England

Sidey: Rob, you're norms for England week because we are recording a day late-

Cris: Okay ...

Sidey: because there's an England fixture later on-

Cris: Yep ...

Sidey: which we're gonna watch. And this is our mid-week of This is

Pete: England. Mm. Can

Sidey: we just say, fucking hot.

Reegs: Yeah. It's gonna be like record-breaking temperatures this week, maybe even starting today or tomorrow. I think

Pete: we might have broken

Sidey: a record today. It did, it did break today, but it's gonna be like many degrees hotter tomorrow.

Reegs: So we're gonna be like when England play in a, in a tournament away- We got to get started early we're gonna be a bit, you know, slower, take our time.

Pete: Considered.

Reegs: Considered build-up. Yeah. Know when to use our bursts. So r- so

Sidey: because it's unbearably hot in the man cave, we are recording outside the man cave. You may hear some external factors.

Cris: The chir- chirruping of,

Sidey: of birds. I don't know if that, I don't know if that came out the last time we- It

Reegs: didn't. No.

Cris: No. No, it didn't really, no. It was, it was quite-

Sidey: So you won't, so ignore all that.

Cris: Just, just add some background stuff.

Sidey: Yeah. But we are talking about the film, it's a Shane Meadows one. It's the second Shane Meadows joint we did. We really liked... We loved Dead Man's Shoes, didn't we?

Cris: Yeah.

Sidey: Um, and so we're going for This is England. Um-

Reegs: I've done no research or watched anything, but this Shane Meadows has got to be one of the most like quintessentially sort of making films

Pete: about England. Yes. In fact, I've, I've read something as part of my experience for, for this week that he was... When he was at college and stuff, and he was like looking to break into... You know, he was writing some, some scripts, and he was, you know, getting involved in like production and things like that, and he was scratching his head about, you know, crazy things to do films about and so on. And then I think somebody that he either worked with or met or whatever said that sometimes the, you know, the best stories are just ones that have, you know, inspi- that you've experienced or that- Yeah you're inspired by things that have- Write your truths ... happened to you or around you or whatever. And I think if you actually look at all of his early work, um, there are elements of things that were actually sort of true, and this is probably the closest sort of thing to a biopic. Biopic is a bit of a stretch, but the, the, the main character, Shaun Fields is, is loosely based on Shane Meadows himself. Although I thought he was loosely based on Craven growing up as a racist in the, in the '80s.

Cris: Yeah.

Pete: He- What, in the '

Cris: 20s, you mean?

Pete: In the t- in the tw- Yeah, no, I was talking about the 1880s.

Cris: Right.

Pete: So yeah, this is essentially he is the, the lead character, although it's, it's, uh, adapted-

Sidey: Mm ...

Pete: quite a bit for, um- Yeah for, for, for the big screen. It's set, it's

Sidey: set in 1983 just after the Falklands has ended, I think.

Pete: Well, it's, it, it's- It's that- ... kind of dur- during, but-

Sidey: We get some newsreel footage of it. Um, and it becomes clear that the, the lad in it is 12. Um, he's lost his father in the Falklands, and we see him getting, he's getting a hard time at school.

Pete: Um- And rightly so because of his trousers ...

Sidey: it's, it's, and his shoes are really biff as well.

Pete: Yeah.

Sidey: It's, I don't know they actually tell you what, which town it is. It's an anonymous kind of town. Uh,

Pete: they don't, but it's, it's set, it's meant to be set in the Midlands. It's anonymous. I think Shane Meadows himself is from the Midlands. Yeah. It's- All of his stuff is set in-

Sidey: It's very anti-Thatcher, everything like that ... Cov But the period detail in it was fucking spot... I was recognizing stuff from my fucking house when I was growing up.

Pete: Yeah.

Sidey: And she looks like my mom's hair and the glasses, like fucking everything is sort of bang on.

Pete: That was the first thing that sort of... So I've, I have, I did watch this when it sort of first came out. I might have watched it a second time, but this was 2006. Is that right? Uh, I'm gonna say. So it's 20 years old. Yes, it is. Um, right. And, and I think this... So this is the first time I've watched it for at least a decade. And some of the... I obviously remembered the, the story and the, all the, like, the plot lines and stuff. Yeah. But the... I'd, I'd forgotten about the, you know, some of the smaller details, but the aesthetic was... That was one of the first things that struck me. Like the corner

Sidey: shop, all the products- Yeah ... in the shop. I was like, "Remember that drink?" And I used to go-

Pete: Yeah ...

Sidey: like buy ciggies for my mom and, you know, all, everything. Just remember, it was like- Yeah ...

Pete: oh my God, it's like fucking bang on. It is brilliant. It's, it's highly detailed. Like the playgrounds, the, you know, all the rooms that they go in and, um, you know, like the lounge of, of his house and everything. Yeah. It's all- So

Sidey: he's getting a hard time at school. He's quite little, and there's all of these other lads, and it's a... It happens to be a dress down day that he gets this hiding that sets it off in motion. And there's the guys dressed in their ska gear.

Pete: Yeah.

Sidey: And he's got his, like, probably charity shop clobber. Uh, he's got these bif kind of flares and some sort of shitty sandals and stuff, but his... So it's a single mom, you know, probably on a military widow's- Yeah probably like pension, I guess.

Pete: Yeah.

Sidey: Um- And

Reegs: he's a working-class feet boy.

Sidey: Yeah.

Pete: Very much so,

Sidey: yeah. And, um, he's sort of giving it... He's got a bit about him. He, you know, will answer back to people and stand up for himself, and the-this guy tells, says a joke like, um, "How many people can you fit in a Mini?" And he's like, "I don't know. How many?" And he's like, "Three in the back, two in the front, and your dad in the fucking ashtray." Oh my God. Oh my God. It's so bad. So he launches at him, and they have a fight, and he gets a bit of a pasting, and then he's sort of skulking his way home. And as he's going through this little kind of underpass thing, there's this group of skinhead lads. Um, and it's... They can recognize

Reegs: straight away- I just... Oh, sorry. I can't stop thinking about it, but I heard... 'Cause you were talking about all those people in a Mini.

Sidey: Yeah.

Reegs: Uh, I, the, um... I was watching a thing with my daughter the other day, and they said the world record for people in a old style Mini- Like Mini

Sidey: Cooper type thing?

Reegs: Yes.

Sidey: 22?

Pete: 17.

Cris: Yeah, I'm gonna- Preposterous. Preposterous ... I'm gonna say 12.

Reegs: It's twen- It's like 27, 28. What? One of those two. Yeah, I know. It's mad, innit?

Cris: It's not possible. Absolutely mad. Well, how big are these people, though?

Pete: You're

Reegs: mad. And how friendly?

Cris: Yeah.

Sidey: Um- And they recognize straight away that he's kinda upset. And the main guy, Woody's like, "Oh, what's up, fella?" You know, and he's, he's really friendly. And they are a friendly bunch. They're like up to high jinks. Well,

Pete: it- there's only really, like Woody, like Jill, uh, Joe Gilgun's- Yeah ... character who sort of takes pity. He's kind of like the leader of- Yeah ... of these guys. Leader of the pack. He, he sort of... The others kind of follow his lead, like- That was the

Reegs: guy who was in

Pete: Preacher. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's- He's really good ... he's brilliant. Yeah. He's great, yeah. Yeah, he's so good. But yeah, he kinda takes pity on, on, uh, on Shaun.

Sidey: And

Pete: s- He says, "

Sidey: Come and sit down." Yeah, "Come and sit down." "Have

Pete: a chat." "Oh, what's the matter, little man?" Have a chat, have a cup of tea. And all of that. And then they, they... the other guys start laughing at his flares and stuff, but he kind of like swats them down. But then Gadget-

Sidey: Gadget comes out of

Pete: the shop with his pie ... who's, who's the, the, I guess the incumbent butt of all jokes- Yeah like comes back with a pie and some beers for the boys and everything. And he sees an opportunity that there's, oh, there's someone lower than me in the like, in the food chain here. So he starts pushing Shane, Shaun around going, "Oh, you know, this, that's where I sit," even though it's like there's a massive long tunnel with like, with concrete si- like, steps sort of thing. And yeah, there's a, there's a bit of a, bit of a scuffle. Shaun kinda goes off, um, back home. He

Sidey: gets his arse and then he goes home and, and his mum's- calls him in and she can see he's got, like, a few marks on his face, and she realizes he's been in a scrap, and she's really worried about him. Um,

Pete: yeah, and it, I mean, he s- he says, he goes, "I've, I've been picked on three times today 'cause of my clothes." Once at, at the- outside the corner shop some kids had given him- Yeah ... a hard time, then at school, and then, um, and then by Gadget- Yeah ... you know, in, in the group, but. So the, the, you know, the, the clothing and his look and his image, like, is gonna be a theme in the film.

Sidey: But- And it's this lad playing Shaun, Thomas Turgoose.

Pete: Yeah.

Sidey: Oh, yeah. It's his debut performance.

Pete: Oh.

Sidey: And it's unreal.

Reegs: Unbelievable,

Sidey: isn't it?

Pete: Have you seen, have you ever seen the, the, like, the VT of his audition?

Sidey: No.

Pete: Basically, like, Shane Meadows, like, the- apparently there were other, like, way more capable trained child actors and so on, and apparently Shane Meadows just as soon as he saw him, he's like, "No, this is our lad. This, this is him." He did- Like, and he was, he's a bit raw- He

Reegs: did have

Pete: child performance- Yeah ... experience ... and it, 'cause like, what the, the, in, in the, in that audition, they basically sort of get him to, like, relax a bit, almost like the cameras aren't rolling, and they just see his, like, real character, and he's exactly like he is in the film. He's a bit, a bit cocky but something endearing about him- Yeah ... at the same time, and he's, he, you know, he's not frightened of people, um, and that, that comes across in, in his performance. How

Reegs: did he ever really escape this role, did he, like, in some ways? Like, from- I think

Pete: that he's, he's- ... starting his career as, like, iconic yeah, that's, he's gonna have type casting issues. Even when you saw him in, like, uh, years later in, um, Game of Thrones. Yeah. Like, straight away he was just, like, a, a walk-on pretty much in Game of Thrones. You're like, "Oh,

Sidey: it's, it's

Pete: Shaun

Sidey: from

Pete: This is England." Yeah. It's like he, he still looks exactly the

Sidey: same. How do they reconnect after he's ... as the chat with his mom? Where do they next meet?

Pete: Um, right, so Gadget comes and throws a stone at- That's right. Yeah ... a window, um, 'cause he feels bad- And he's got his weird ... and he's got all these, like, pots and pans- ... gear on ... and some weir- mad getup, and they're going out- They're going hunting hunting.

Sidey: Yeah.

Pete: Which basically involves going to, like, derelict houses with, like, hammers and, and, like, pellet guns- Sledgehammer and stuff, yeah ... and stuff and just trashing them. But,

Sidey: you know- That's, that is their level of, like, that's the level of hijinks that they get up to. Yeah. They're not- And there's fuck

Pete: all else to do as

Sidey: well yeah, there's, there's a really impoverished area. Yeah. So they go out and they do this, but they don't cause ... it's, I'm gonna say victimless crime. Do you know what I mean? They're boarded up. Yeah. And abandonment and then- It's just, like, silly shit. They're not actually hurting anyone. Per se it's not great obviously. Um, but they look after each other. They are a bit of a sort of surrogate family. Um, and then they start to get him into the whole scene, so he s- he starts to dress like them. He goes, he wants the Doc Marten boots. Um- Yeah ... he makes his mom promise that he's gonna get the boots, and she's like, "You're not having those. They're awful." And they have this interaction in the shop with the shopkeeper. "These ones are from London."

Pete: Yeah.

Sidey: It's like, "They're awful." Um, and then they, they go back to, um, the

Reegs: flats so they- You had

Pete: Doc Martens? Oh, I had, I had a few pairs of Doc Martens,

Sidey: yeah. Yeah, some, yeah. Didn't have the boots. I had just some shoes but, um- That's-- They're knocking about with the girls and whatever, and then they, they shave his head. They do say, "Yeah, is your mum gonna write?" "Yeah." "Sam, shave his head." And then he- he's got... I think he's got the trousers, the boots-

Pete: Yeah ...

Sidey: and I think he's even got the braces- Yeah,

Pete: he's

Sidey: got- ... over his T-shirt, and they're like, "Where's your shirt?"

Pete: Yeah. "

Sidey: You've gotta put your Ben Sherman on." He's like, "I haven't got one." They're like, "Oh, sorry, you have to fuck off." Ben Sherman, of course. He's like, "Oh, no." He's gutted, and they're like, "Wahey, got you a shirt." So they're really like, they're really in- Yeah ... looking after him and, like, bringing him into the fold. And then they're gonna have a party back at someone's gaff one evening where Smell is there.

Cris: Yeah.

Sidey: What a character.

Cris: Yeah. What a name as well.

Sidey: It's Michelle, but- Oh, right ... she has to explain it later on because they do become boyfriend and girlfriend, and she has to explain it to Sean's mum. So

Cris: But it, it rhymes with

Pete: Michelle.

Sidey: And she looks like Boy George, but as a girl. Right. She's got, like, completely white now- Yeah, she's got- makeup ... like, 'cause

Pete: it's... So they're all, like, the, the, the guys pretty much all dress like skinheads. Yeah.

Sidey: It's either like the Specials

Pete: or skinheads ... or like, you know, with, like, the ska 'cause even Milky, who's Black- Yeah ... he's, he's part of their group- Pork pie hat ... but he's, like, pork pie hat. It's more the kind of, like, the ska-

Sidey: Yeah

Pete: Look.

Reegs: And she's all what? Kind of New Romantic you

Pete: said. But she's, yeah, all, like, New Romantic.

Sidey: Yeah.

Pete: Um, yeah.

Sidey: Obviously, the music in the film is great as well.

Pete: Yeah.

Sidey: So they have a party.

Reegs: Yeah, no, what is the music? What, what, is it period music?

Pete: It's, it's like- It's so, so- ... it's, it's ska, a bit of, like, old school punk- Yeah a lot of, like, soul and- Yeah. Yeah. Oh,

Reegs: yeah.

Pete: Nice.

Sidey: Um, so at the party he says, "So do you wanna go out to the garden with me?" And there is, like, a quite a jarring looking age diff- I don't know what the age difference is between the two of them.

Pete: In real life it's four years. Right. So she was 17, and he was 13.

Sidey: Right. 'Cause they proper tuck.

Pete: Yeah, they have to, like, properly

Sidey: snog. They go into a shed, and they properly snog. And then she says to him, "Do you wanna suck my tit?" And he, and you can tell he's, like, really doesn't know what he's doing. He's, um, he's a bit embarrassed. Um, but when they go back into the gaff, this fucking massive dude just... Well, there's a knock on the door, and when they open the door, this fucking massive fella comes in with a machete going mental. And they're all like, "What the fuck?" Like, "Oh, sorry about the, the loud music." And he's like, "It's too fucking late for that." And he's swinging it round like a maniac. And then you see, um, Combo come in.

Pete: Stephen Graham.

Sidey: Stephen Graham's character- Yeah ... like hiding in the doorway, and he bursts in. It's all a big wind-up, and he's just come out of prison, and now he's back on the scene, and he... We d- we never find out, do we, what's happened? But he's gone to prison and not... So if s- Woody had done something as well.

Pete: Yeah. I think he'd taken, he'd taken the fall

Sidey: for- He's not grassed Woody up.

Pete: Yeah.

Sidey: So Woody feels like he owes him something, but he starts telling the story, and he immediately starts being racist, and everyone looks at Milky 'cause he's Black. And you can tell that's not, that's not what they're about.

Reegs: Yeah.

Sidey: They're, they're a tight-knit, close group of friends, and they're all mortified. And you can see Milky's face. He's like, "Oh, fuck." And no one knows what to do. And it- the film just takes... 'Cause it's been quite nice up to this point. Yeah. It's like about Sean finding this-

Pete: Yeah. Yeah, yeah ...

Sidey: like, "Oh, you're rooting for me. It's fine." Yeah. "You're, you're coming over now. It's great." And now all of a sudden you're like, "Oh, no." It

Pete: d- it does. So what it, what it does, a little bit like, I mean, A Room for Ro- Romeo Brass does it- Yeah ... and Dead Man's Shoes does it pretty much all the way through. It goes from almost like, you know, just like lighthearted. It's, it's j- at the beginning of it, it's just like a coming-of-age story sort of thing. Yeah, yeah. And then it just... He's so good at making you as the, the, the viewer feel really, really uncomfortable and like- Very dark ... just on the edge of your seat, and you, you- Check out ... you don't wanna watch, but you, you have to watch 'cause it's, it's-

Sidey: Stephen Graham is phenomenal in this

Pete: as well. Yeah. Combo. Bearing in mind, that was the first thing I'd seen him in since, uh, Snatch.

Sidey: Yeah.

Pete: When he was like, was it Tommy? Is his name. Yeah. Yeah. And, and obviously he had like the curly hair, and he was a bit of a... I did- I d- assumed he was a Cockney 'cause he's a Cockney in, in Snatch, and then he's there and he's like proper, like, Na- sort of, you know, his own sort of Scouse accent. But he's so fucking good in this

Reegs: scene as well.

Pete: Yeah.

Reegs: And I, I sort of think of him as an actor who's kind of got better over his career, but it's not true. He's just got more chances. He's always been good.

Pete: Yeah. He's always been good. Yeah, no, he's been good. But- Yeah, he's, he's found a platform for his- The levels- his ridiculous talent ... the levels of

Sidey: the performance in this.

Pete: Unbelievable, yeah.

Sidey: Incredible.

Pete: Yeah. And what- So he drops in- ... what, what he does, what he does do in, in that scene is, is... So Combo, he gives a little flicker of he's not all bad because at first you're like, "Oh, th- this guy's a wrong one," and he's like throwing around like racial slurs and stuff, and then he realizes. He's like, "Oh, fuck." And he's gone, "Oh, like, sorry, Milky, mate." And then-

Sidey: He doesn't really know what he's about. Yeah. And, and then he sort of-

Pete: He's all over the shop ... and then you kind of go- Absolutely ... and then you sort of like revert back. He say, "Oh," you know, "this Brown gentleman like came in, and he was-" Well,

Sidey: he is... Well, as the film shows us, he's, he's absolutely pathetic.

Pete: Yeah. He just, he's-

Sidey: Yeah, deeply insecure ... he's just a, like a fucking loser basically. Yeah. Um-

Pete: But dangerous.

Sidey: But he's a, a psychopath- Yeah ... like he's a fucking lunatic. So the next day they're in the cafe that they hang out with, and Convo comes in again. He says, "Wood, you know, Woody, I need to talk to you." And they're like, "Oh, what's this gonna be all about?" Um, and then they basically have to go back to, um, Convo's apartment for a, just a hangout or whatever, and he turns the situation around by saying, um, to Woody, "You're a fucking snake." And I'm trying to do his accent. Yeah. "You're a snake. You didn't... I said that fucking awful thing, and you didn't stand up for your mate." And he's like, "No, no, you're the piece of shit." Yeah. Yeah, you're the one. And he just manipulates. This is what he does, and he just sort of turns it all around.

Pete: That's like- He's, uh, he's, he's very... He's like, he's very charismatic still. Even though he's a, a wrong 'un and violent and everything like that, he... You can see how people would be, like, in awe of him.

Reegs: But they don't have, they don't have many

Pete: role models. No, there's no moral sort of guidance or, or stability in any of their lives. Or male role models in their lives. Yeah, exactly. So, s- so-

Sidey: So with that whole movement really, all the, what, the Brit- the National Front, the, the co-opted, they're all just

Pete: Preying, preying on ne'er-do-wells who, like, look- are looking for something to,

Sidey: you know- So while he's- Unite them basically ... like be around anything. Yeah. So while he's doing this thing about you're a snake, blah, blah, blah, he then gets into this spiel about them coming over here, taking our jobs, all this bullshit that you've heard, and he's- uses the Falklands War, you know, our lads going over there and giving their lives for this phony war. And then Sean's like, you can see him getting annoyed because he's lost his father- Yeah ... in this conflict, and eventually he snaps, and he's the one who actually's, uh, the only one who stands up to Combo

Pete: and

Sidey: actually starts, like, taking swings at him. And you can see- And Combo has, like, massive respect for him yeah,

Pete: you can imagine, like, the direction of that is, like, to, to Thomas Turgoose, because obviously Steven Gravess, he's not a big fella- No ... but he's an intimidating person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, like, actually go for him, try and knock his head off because he's swinging proper punches and- Yeah ... and St- like, you know, Combo's having to, like, deflect them, but he's like, "You know, what- what's, what's the matter, little fellow?" And all of that. He, you know- Yeah. And then he- He breaks down as well ... he immediately, once he finds out, he goes, he goes, "Oh, my dad died in the Falklands." And then he's like, oh, he- He uses that ... apologizes, s- squats down, and then immediately changes and becomes, like, you know, like he's comforting him and everything and, and immediately within- But he uses that as well 20 seconds, he uses that to sort of turn around and all- That's what, "That's what I'm talking about, lads." Yeah. This is the people are, uh, Brits coming over- Puts him up on a pedestal, yeah ...

Sidey: da, da, da, da, da. Um, so this is the direction of travel, and he basically at this point says, "You're either," you know, "You're either with me or you're against me. Who's, who's joining us? We're gonna go and-

Pete: Yeah ... meet this fella." Um. Yeah, and like, and Wo- Basically Nigel

Sidey: Farage but-

Pete: Wood- Woody , yeah. Woody gets up and, and goes off, and so do a few, few of the others. Milky's one of them as well, but it just divides the, the group immediately.

Sidey: What's the one who stays? Is it, um, Pukey or

Pete: something? Pukey, yeah. That's J- like, Jack O'Connell. What's he? The actor.

Sidey: I think.

Pete: He's, he's been in quite a few things. He was in- Is that the

Cris: SAS guy? The- Yes. Yeah. Oh, he's good. I like him. He's a

Pete: SAS rugby hero. Yeah. He's brilliant in that.

Cris: He was in that. He was in, uh, the Amy Winehouse movie. Yeah. He was in a few. Yeah, I like him as an actor. And again, this is- He's really good ...

Pete: this, I mean, we'll probably talk about it more towards the end, but this is... that's another, like, de- debut- Yeah, yeah ... performance from a young actor that has gone on to pretty big things.

Sidey: So yeah, like Lol, all the girls basically fuck off. Yeah. Um, Woody, Milky, um- But Gadget, Pukey, Sean, um, they stay with Banjo and Combo

Pete: Yeah

Sidey: who, who takes them off to this National Front basically meet to hear this guy just spout out all this fucking racist bullshit- Yeah ... about these people taking your jobs

Pete: and stuff like that. And it is, it's Frank Harper's the actor. Yeah. He's another, like, Shane Meadows collaborator. Yeah. He's in A Room for Romeo Brass. He's, he's the one that he's dogging uh, Lock, Stock.

Sidey: Yeah,

Pete: yeah, yeah. That one, yeah.

Cris: Oh, yes. The b- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... he's, he's in Football Factory as well. The

Pete: geezer,

Cris: yeah,

Pete: yeah. Yeah. And again- Yeah ... you know, you can s- s- like, you know, c- because he doesn't, he's not all like... He hasn't got a shaved head. He's wearing a suit, and he's got like- Yeah ... his hair's grown out- He's like a bit of a Jag and glasses. He turns up in a Jag and everything. He seems like a presentable guy. More well-to-do, yeah. You know, the, the propaganda and everything and, and all these people in the, uh,

Sidey: you know. He's literally, but he gets them all to sign up, you know, and they're all well into it. They stand up and they're applauding, and they're like loving his fucking bullshit. Um, and then they start doing all the graffiti. You see the way they spelt National Front, right?

Pete: Yeah. N- N-A-S-H-N-I-L, N-I-L as Gadget. Nashnil.

Sidey: Right.

Reegs: These are not educated people.

Sidey: No. No, they're easily led, I would say.

Pete: Yeah.

Sidey: But even on the way back from that, Pukey was like, he's saying to Gadget Really into all this. Like he has, he straight away has second thoughts about it. He's

Reegs: like- It's a powerfully simple idea though, isn't it? To hate the foreigner. But he

Sidey: was the

Reegs: one- '

Pete: Cause you don't need to blame them for your life But the, but the way, the way this guy's, the, the way this guy sort of pitches it, he sort of starts off softly. He's like, he's going, "If people wanna come to this country and contribute and, and, you know, and- That's

Sidey: how

Pete: it looks ... and integrate and everything like that, then, then brilliant, you know. It's a great country, and we should welcome them and everything." And then- He

Sidey: doesn't even believe that, I don't

Pete: think No, I don't think so. But it's, it's a way of softly rather than just coming ... 'Cause he's obviously gotta win these people over, so he sort of almost comes in sort of gently. Yeah. And people go, "Oh yeah," 'cause like, I believe everything's set, although I know that, that family down the road and they're all right. But it's, that's his, that's his way of saying like, it's okay to like them-

Sidey: Yeah

Pete: but, but anyone else, anyone who's not contributing or anything like that, you, we wanna like stand up to them with violence and, and, you know, aggression, so.

Sidey: Yeah. He gives, um, Combo gives Sean a gift of, uh, St George's Cross, doesn't he?

Pete: No. Um, uh, he's, he's taken it from, from there 'cause he's like, "Oh, I've got a surprise for you, Combo." He gets

Sidey: the- It's the b-b- ... No, s- Combo gives it to Sean. He says, "I got you something. It's in the, uh-

Pete: No, 'cause there's, so he, as Combo's driving, he's like, "Oh, the-" In the glove compartment ... like Sean's got it, and no, Sean's, Sean gets it out the back and goes, "Oh, oh, don't look, don't look," like as he's getting it out.

Sidey: Yeah.

Pete: So you see they, they basically nicked it from this National Front meeting so, so that he can impress Combo.

Sidey: We get a little montage of them walking down the street and, uh- You gotta have a montage ... and, um, he's even sort of training Sean about how to walk and how to say like, "Fuck off you," you know, and then drop in racial slurs. Not gonna say obviously. Um, and then there's, he's had, he's had previous in this corner shop before, but before he was just like reading comics, not paying for them, and the shopkeeper was getting a bit pissed off at him and just, you know, kid stuff. But now he, he's just walks back in, in his full skinhead gear and he says, "I'll have 100 fags, you know, 10 beers, two bottles of wine, bottle of whiskey." And the guy's like, "We not have that. You're 12." And he's like, "Get me the fucking drinks." And he's, he, he's just going- Given a load of beers ... all of a sudden he's just been practicing what come down. He says it, so the shopkeeper goes and tries to throw him out, and at that point Combo comes in with the machete again and they just rob the guy, you know- Yeah in broad daylight and just threaten him with, you know, like horrendous violence if he says anything They go-- Well, he sees, um He ends up seeing... Well, he's, we've seen him look at Lol a few times

Pete: Well, they, they... I think just before that they turn up at, at Mel's birthday pa- at Smell's birthday party, and again, it's, it's like it divides

Sidey: the room- Is that where he, is that where he quizzes Milky about where he, where he r- where, what he considers himself?

Pete: No, that, that was, that was the- Is that- ... that was the original one. That was when he was al- that was when he spat on the floor and drew the line. But, you know, he's, he said, like, "You, you, you consider yourself English or Jamaican?" Jamaican. Yeah. He says English after a long pause- Yeah ... 'cause I think he, he knows what the right- Yeah what, what the answer should be. Yeah, and then they, they, there's the birthday party thing, and again, it divides the room. But I noticed like, um, a couple... 'Cause again, a couple of the girls, so there's Lol and her two, sort of two sisters, I think Trev and Kelly. Yeah. And the two of the u- two of the younger girls stay, again, 'cause they're a little bit more sort of impressionable, and they're kind of like a little bit like in awe of Combo and how sort of charismatic he is and everything. But then, yeah, the next, next scene it cuts to, um, Combo just kind of like waiting.

Sidey: He's watching Lol-

Pete: Yeah ...

Sidey: outside the cafe, and he's been looking at her a few times. Um, and eventually he, he collars her as she's going to work. Um, says, "Can I just need two minutes? Just need two minutes." She's like, "I ain't got fucking two minutes." But eventually she, uh, you know, just stay, and he presents her with this box that he's made for her while he's been inside. And they've had a, they've had a night in the past before he went into prison, and he said, "That was the best night of my life," you know, "I fucking love you." It's like, it was awful. Like I was 16, I didn't wanna fucking do it, you know? Yeah.

Pete: She said I was like smashed off my head

Sidey: and- There's no... There's nothing between us, like he- '

Pete: Cause she's Woody's girlfriend. Yeah.

Sidey: Yeah. And, um, he's, he's fucking devastated. And, um, when she gets out of the car, this bit of acting is like fucking 10 out of 10. He's like properly trying not to cry and just sobbing, like even when he loses... And you see the guy's just fucking weak. Not weak as in... But he's just as vulnerable- Yeah ... and just as fucking, like the same as everyone. He...

Pete: Yeah. I mean, he's laid himself bare for this girl- But, but when he can't- ... and she's just hardly

Sidey: rejected him when he, when he's- Yeah. Yeah. He just responds- Because he was probably Thomas

Reegs: when he was younger, right? Yeah. He was-

Pete: Yeah.

Sidey: Um, so he's absolutely devastated, and that's gonna lead to some fucking, like, hideous consequences for other people.

Pete: Yeah. Yeah. So then again, so the next scene, um, Combo then he's waiting for- Milky just waiting for Milky. He's walking past with a, with like a girlfriend. 'Cause we've seen Milky, he's

Sidey: like blazing quite a lot.

Pete: Yeah. M-Milky loves a, loves a J. Um, so to console himself, and, and, and this is it, y- like I, I never really understood whether this is all completely set up. I think there's, there's, it's nods to that because Banjo seems to be on board when, when things sort of play out later on. But, so anyway, he kind of talks, he, he talks Milky into like getting an ounce and, and even says like, "Listen, get an ounce, I'll give you half." Mm-hmm. Uh, and then he invites him round. So there's this, um, that fucking weird Meggie. It like, there's like an older guy who isn't even dressed like a skid anyway. He just seems to hang around with him, but he's like sat in the corner. There's Banjo, who's like Combo's, like pal from prison.

Sidey: Gadgets completely spangled ...

Pete: gadget, gadgets like wiring everywhere Um, and then Milky and Combo. And then you, you almost see, 'cause they're putting on records and they're smoking joints, and then they're like Combo and Milky are, are bonding, and it seems completely genuine. They're talking about, you know... And, and Combo's even like praising Milky. He's like, "Look, you know, like the stuff you wear, the music you listen to, that's, that's like, that's the roots that I got-" That's solid. Yeah ... "that were introduced to me-" Yeah ... at the beginning of this whole kind of movement, and that, that's what this is about. And you're, you're one of the, like the true-" Yeah ... "like originals." And, and he's, he's giving him a load of praise. And Milky's like, see he's completely relaxed and into the, you know, into the vibe and everything, and, and his guard is, is, is completely down. So he then starts talking about his family and all his, his uncles that co- and his, his parents and his uncles that came over from Jamaica. How he's got like seven or eight unc- uh, uncles and aunties, 20-odd cousins. How, you know, all the food that they have at Christmas, and that there's al- Yeah. They're- No matter what, there was always- They're like- ... food on the table and everything. And y- you don't know Combo's backstory, but you can just see him all of a sudden is, uh, again, in brilliant acting- Yeah 'cause all he's doing is, is just on his face.

Cris: Yeah.

Pete: You can just see him sort of like turning and, and becoming more and more like bitter and- He's jealous ... and angry with every word- Yeah ... that, that Milky's saying because he's jealous. He's like, and he starts saying, "Oh, yeah, you had everything, didn't you? Like, you had it, you had it all. You know, like, you know, you're lucky, aren't you? You know, what a perfect life you've got," and stuff. And he starts becoming a bit tense, and he sort of like, he gets up and then like turns round and stands over him and calls him the N-word, like to challenge him and to insult him, but challenge him to see what he's gonna do about it. And, and Milky just sort of smiles back at him because you can see Milky kind of resigns to the fact that, "I thought actually you were a bit ingenuine there, and we, we could actually-" Yeah. "... like get on." Yeah. Um, and because he smiles at him, it riles him even more, and then Combo just absolutely batters him. Like properly fills him in. Yeah. Sean has to- I think, I think they mentioned he went in, he was in a coma or something.

Sidey: Sean has to watch it.

Pete: But... And, and Sean has to watch it, but then this is where that Banjo is, like Combo's mate, grabs Sean and just pins him down so that he can't do anything about it. Yeah. Like Meggy, who's an old, silly old twat, and he's absolutely spangled anyway. Yeah. Like, uh, Gadge's already gone home with Me- with Smell, I think. So yeah, th- they have to watch it all unfold. Um, Meggy goes, Banjo like takes him outside or whatever. Sean's been chucked outside. And then immediately Combo kind of like turns round, he's, he's shouting at, at Milky whilst he's unconscious, like lying on the floor. And then you, you see him, he, he just like stops and looks, and obviously he's, he's starting to collect his thoughts- Realizes what he's done ... and looks at what he's done, and he starts like crying and going, "Oh my God, what have I done? What have I done? I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry." And he, he's like... And he goes back outside where like Sean's sort of cowering in a cupboard, I think, and he's like going like, "H- help me." And, and what they do a few times here is whenever there's like serious sort of like tension and really uncomfortable watching, they sort of like play... You can hear the dialogue- A bit, but they play kind of like-

Sidey: Yeah, the music- ...

Pete: foreboding- Yeah ... like sort of music over the top of it just to... I don't know whether it's to cut through the tension a bit or, or, or heighten it. I don't, I really don't know, but it's, it's, you know, it's, it's like... Um, you can't take your eyes off how, you know, striking it all is.

Cris: Okay.

Pete: It's, uh... Yeah, it's a brutal, horrible scene. And it, it's, it's basically pretty much like right towards the end of the film because you then see Shaun. They, they... Shaun and, uh, Combo take Milky to hospital.

Sidey: Yeah.

Pete: Um, you then see Shaun sort of at home in his room and he's, he, you know, he's, he's questioning everything. Yeah. And the mum comes in and she tells him, "Oh, look, Mil-," you know, they say Milky's gonna be okay, and so on. And then you just see, uh, Shaun just walking along some, you know- Beach some like moors or whatever, and then go and grab- Yeah ... his St George's flag and throw it in the sea. Yeah. Um, and that's pretty mu- that's it really, isn't it?

Sidey: Yeah. So that version of England, the bullshit kind of racist National Front version throws it away.

Pete: Yeah.

Sidey: No interest in

Pete: it. Yeah.

Reegs: So when we're talking about This Is England, it's sort of pretty depressing, but were there maybe some sort of hopefulness at all?

Pete: I di- I think, uh... So, so has anyone seen any of the series that follow this? I haven't. No. Like, honestly, I, I c- I can't tell you how good they are. And, and what you get... So it's, it's all the same characters. Yeah. It's all a few years on.

Cris: Yeah.

Pete: It continues the stories, and it just builds the, the world of the- So kind of- A bit bigger. It's about three years later, isn't it? All the same. So, so then the... So this was set in '83. There's, there's This Is England '86, '88 and '90.

Sidey: Yeah.

Pete: And they're all like miniseries of three or four episodes, and it just starts sort of building out like the individual characters as well. It's, it's all the same characters.

Sidey: Oh, wow.

Pete: And it... They're, they're unbelievable. And, and what, what they do... And, and I, and obviously watch this again, knowing what the, you know, like what the sort of the end game is for all of the, of the characters and so on. And Combo is, is one of those characters that a little bit, I don't know, like in a very different way, a little bit like fucking like Walter White or whatever. It's kind of like y- you, you hate him for a load of stuff that he's done, and you, and you know he's the bad guy, and you shouldn't be rooting for them. But then there's all these... He has these massive like redemptive arcs that sort of- Yeah ... you know, keep or a pl- uh, like a storyline within the whole s- series. Uh, all I'll say... I won't say anymore, just watch them because they are- I'm gonna watch them. I'm gonna go back and watch them all again after, after watching this 'cause it's so, so good.

Sidey: Yeah. It's... Well, Thomas Turgoose, Stephen Graham is like

Pete: unbelievable.

Sidey: Yeah. Unbelievable performances.

Pete: Yeah.

Sidey: But, um, like obviously as a 12-year-old, or were you saying he's 13? I

Pete: think he's 13. Yeah.

Sidey: Playing a 12-year-old.

Pete: Yeah.

Sidey: Incredible. But Stephen Graham is just like- Yeah ... knocks it out of the park. He's so fucking good.

Pete: Yeah. I

Sidey: really like, um, Shane-

Pete: Yeah. This was- This, and this, this launch, 'cause it was, it was bigger. Like you could, you know- Bigger ... obviously he'd had, um, Romeo and Grass and Dead Man's Shoes before that, and this was like the biggest budget thing that he'd done. And I think it really took off and, and it, and it launched so many careers, like Lola, is it Vicky McClure? Like she's in- been in loads of stuff. Yeah. Joe Gilgun's been in loads of stuff. Troy McClure. Troy McClure . Troy McClure, that like Jack O'Connell. There's, there's l- tons of them, even like the, the, the sister, even the, the sort of like- Sister the minor characters in, in this- Yeah ... they get bigger in, in the, the miniseries that follow and then- Yeah ... they go on to have like massive careers.

Reegs: But- It's a bit depressing how like he's talking about what happened in '83- It's happening now ... in the picture, but it's just, you know- The same ... you look at it the lens of when it was made in 2006, it was still the same, and you look at it now in 2026, it-- and it's still the fucking same. I thought- Some of the racist rhetoric has kind of changed its language a little bit- Yeah ... but it's still the same thing.

Pete: Yeah. Exactly right. I d- I was thinking that as I was watching it, going like, "This, this is mad," 'cause it's, it's meant to be like however many fucking years ago that was. I can't work it out. It's ridiculous. Yeah. And yeah, we're, we're still there in, in, you know, the same place. It goes- And it go- it, it just goes in cycles.

Sidey: Yeah.

Pete: And it'll always be, you know, those, those political sort of undercurrents. But the ... Yeah. Th- this is ... I, I, I don't know if it-- I can't tell you whether it's better than Dead Man's Shoes or not. I'm not sure. Dead Man's Shoes is a 10 out of

Sidey: 10. I bet they're from different kind of movies.

Pete: They are very different, but you know- They're both- ... this is at least a nine out of 10 for me. Yeah. It's, it's outstanding performances, everything.

Sidey: Would you say it was a strong recommend?

Pete: Yes.

Cris: Strong