Midweek Mention... It's Coming Home

SPEAKER_01 0:11

It's coming home.

SPEAKER_04 0:14

I see I C H Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Hashtag ICH. It changed to regular programming. Yeah. Because the World Cup has taken over a bit.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Well it has, isn't it? I mean it's been a little bit. It feels that way for the first time in a long time. I felt like we might have a chance in actually getting to a the final of the World Cup.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

It's becoming a bit of a regular thing for England now to achieve in tournaments, right? The semi-finals and they made the final of the Euros, obviously. Yeah, two finals of the Euros and a World Cup semi.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Yeah. Reading there's like an article on the BBC about it. About the few tournaments beforehand, and the change has been quite marked. Because obviously we got done by the Icelandic. Yes, well that was the That was a real low point. Well, we didn't even qualify for the Euros in 2008.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

The Wally with the Prolly. Yeah. Well, we ended up like there was a time in the England uh team that certainly the inter-club rivalry was so um dominant that the team the players themselves didn't seem to get along. Um well they talked about that openly, yeah, didn't they?

SPEAKER_02 1:29

The Gerards and whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

They would have their time as lunches at the 15 tables and they wouldn't mingle.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

It's taken ten years or longer for them to start talking about it. And it's probably it's a good reason why that generation that had decent players didn't get the colour. They didn't get past the quarter.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

The golden the golden on the doing inverted conference thing didn't get past the quarter final, which is fucking shocking.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

And then we had, you know, the the players that weren't doing that well, and actually it seemed like turn up for England was a bit of a hassle and getting in the way, and and it they weren't really playing for pride. And it took someone like and I wasn't his fan, but it took someone like Gareth Southgate to putting the pride back into like something to play for again, didn't he?

SPEAKER_00 2:09

I think there's a few other things. Club managers didn't want them to go. Fergie would have like brainwashed all those players to make them hate it. Um there's no one playing now, there's other teams that were better, there's no one playing now as good as you dance. So I think the standard is generally a little lower.

SPEAKER_04 2:26

It's not only that, the what the way they've done it, and you see it with um the way England's done it was probably one of the first countries that have done it with promotes from within. Because Southgate was working already the other federations, he was on with the other 21s, he knew the players from there and he promoted the mounts and the all these uh Rashford, all those kind of that he had at the youth team, he promoted all of them because they were already mates and they already knew each other and they they almost went past the rivalries. Whereas before it was let's say Rio and Lampard was were at West Ham together, but when they went to Chelsea and United, yeah, I think they weren't mates anymore.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Greg Dyke Lowell took over behind the scenes and then they put in the elite player performance.

SPEAKER_04 3:08

Yeah. Yeah, which is the same like Clairefontaine, the same like the Us English.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

The St George's thing centre, yeah. So they had the centre of excellence and quite a few of the squad, Elliot Anderson, I think Saka and a few others have all come through that. So you put the building box in place and you can have.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

He was instrumental in choosing the England manager at the time, which was Slithgate. He was at one of a three-man panel, I think. Choosing Southgate. He scored a belcher against Brazil, remember? He did, yeah, yeah. Beauty. I mean, wow, score against Brazil, Jersey boy. Brilliant. Um but then you know, fast forward, Southgate probably never had the tactical now to get over the line.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Um a little bit too conservative, maybe. I'm not sure if it's not the tactical now, so I just think maybe in the crunch moments it felt like he picked the wrong team, especially in the final. Yeah. Italy was the one. Italy was the chance.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Spain were better than us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Italy at home. I mean, they hadn't they haven't qualified before before that at all. Same in the last 20 years.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Spain, you go into the game as underdogs against Spain, so you can you can kind of live with that results. Disappointing people. But the Italy was. But Italy was the one you had the real good chance. And you had the one il up as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Yeah, and Croatia.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Yeah. But the difference now is that Tuchel seems to have built on that, and he's got a team now that reflects the identity of some of the best things about English football at the moment. Intensity, you know, defensive security. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Positive substitutions instead of game changes. Holding what you've got one nil up, let's go and put uh let's go and be a problem for the other team, and he'll go and phone positive.

SPEAKER_04 4:50

He's also a good proven manager. I know he's German and England is you know never being coached by anything, any other Sved. Oh no, but yeah, sorry, but but you know what I mean. So so you had those ones that even Capello that were you brought them in and they were they turned out to be not good because they didn't really understand the English culture. Whereas this guy, he has managed in England, and he managed brilliantly at Chelsea when the club was up for sale, there was the embargo, there was this, that, and and he was a brilliant manager for that. And when they brought him in, they under he understood what he needs to do. And I think the FA pretty much understood, look, what you want to do, you do it. And if it goes wrong, it's on you.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Yeah. And that's how the managers should be given a job, you know, because they're the ones that ultimately are you know gonna be judged if they do well or if they don't do well, they're the one you know, so you can't tie one hand behind his back. And to be fair, I don't think they did against for Southgate. I think they let him do his way and they give him an extra contract, didn't they? And he did brilliantly, he did far better than I thought he would do. They didn't actually rate him as a very good manager. He'd never won anything with Middlesbrough. No, he's not won anything.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

He's not taking a job since.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

No, he's not but he was able to put pride into the show, and maybe at that time that was the most important building block that he could do. And then you've got players like Kane who have just, you know, gone better and better, and he's got this youth coming through, he's got a a lot of but he's also got a sharp tactical plan as well, and you see that because his I hadn't really heard from him before, but the guy that they wheel out at half time has he's meant to be really clear.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

He's good, he's sharp what he says. Like obviously he has to be careful what he says at half time in a World Cup game, but it's always pretty incisive.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

But he's not that careful, yeah. I I like the way that he he I like the cut of his gibb. I like the way that he speaks. I tell you the other thing that I like, and I know it's an unpopular decision and viewpoint. Oh, you can talk about the hydration break it was. It's the hydration break. I like him. It has done us some favours. It's done us some favours. But it killed us against Norway. If we'd have had Southgate, I don't think that's a because it's a tactical break, right? You know, it's not just a drinks break, it is It's an advert break. And I know that it's an advert break as well. But they're all the reasons I don't like it.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

I mean, there's lots of reasons, but they did need it for the proper for the the sort of hydration reasons in Miami, or the other games.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

When you get to my age, you need the toilet 20 minutes in the middle.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Yeah, I need it now.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

So it's um doing a hydration break isn't so bad for me. But there aren't many 75-year-olds playing in England. No, there's not, you know, that's why we're you know, um I don't mind it.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

But truth be told, we've had moments in this World Cup where we haven't set the world alight particularly. We've just done enough. Well, Croatia is our best game. For a half. For a half, yeah. And we've dug in in other games. The Mexico game was brilliant because it was real backs backs against the wall. Ten men. We you know, we got to then it, you know, things went against a little bit, but we dug in. But the other games we've done just enough.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

So you hope we'll raise it again.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Well, we're sort of beating our opponents at their level, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:53

So yeah, I was saying it down is what Simwan do. We just play it like whatever just subconsciously you go, well, we're playing the top of the best in the world, so we'll have to play well. We're playing someone's bottom league. We'll play, you know, we you just subconsciously just drop down.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

That's is it Panama and and Ghana? We left well, Panama we left it very late. Yeah, Ghana we nearly.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

That was the witch doctor, though. Congo game is very awful as well.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Congo game is great.

SPEAKER_04 8:19

I don't know what you say that. I obviously I'm not British or English, and I although I'm a fan now, I'm I'm fully committed. I'm on the bandwagon. It's coming out. But just from a neutral point of view, if I would think like randomly like that, if you would have to play against England, England is not Spain or France for that matter, where if you sit deep and you frustrate them, you still can't cut you still can't keep them out because their players are so brilliant and they've got these little tricks. England has good players, and some of them, especially Kane and Bellinger, they could walk into pretty much every team in the world. But England doesn't have traditionally, historically, in the future, they don't have people say cole Palmer or Foden. I still think there's no one at the level of a Pedri or uh, you know, players like that that you can you can play and they'll find a pass or or messy or you know, that they'll get a through ball and you're in and you're done, just through the middle. England is more direct and crash backwards. It's more it's more attack, but in a I don't know, more linear way rather than a technical.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

Yeah, it's very vertical, get the ball up the pitch quick, you know, which is play the percentages, cross it from the right.

SPEAKER_04 9:32

But what you do have is those two players that at any time they can give you a goal or two goals. Yeah. Both Bellingham and I listened to a guy on the Athletic this morning, and he was like, if you look at Bellingham, he's uh a midfield player, but he his in contribution is not really in midfield. He his contribution is in the box. Roger. In and around the box. He's not in in he's a goal-scoring midfielder, but it's not really a midfielder. You're not gonna see him taking the ball and driving too much with it or playing slick passes. He's not that.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

I find it's quite interesting that him and Kane don't end up in the same spot, really, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Because uh he'll kind of go late. Kane will make the first move and he'll just go to wherever Kane isn't. Yeah, I think Kane generally would like to go near post.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Well, they can't leave Kane alone, so they'll they he'll take one or two defenders with him, and Ju's clever enough to look at that and then go in in the space, and the other players are clever enough to say, right, there's two players on Kane, I'll chip it to the back. Unless it's Maduweki, and he ain't clever in it. But our tactics is is kind of suck them in and blow them out, you know. It is is we're talking about football. Yeah, I think so. Um it is kind of bring the players towards us, you know, go very deep, have five, six of their players commit, and then a quick ball over the top, and then we catch them on the break and we we attack it at a pace. The goal that we scored, Bellingham's um goal where Rice uh is it Pickford's bowled it out to Rice. Rice has gone forward into Saka. Into Saka and then it Bellingham's headed, I think that was Megan.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Similar can uh the Norway game, they wanted to get it into midfield and then quickly switch play out to wide players. Oh, it's sure, sure, sure.

SPEAKER_04 11:13

Last year before the Argentina game because fullbacks are white. The fullbacks are not great for Argentina, and they're not quick either. Yeah. So whoever's gonna play, England has great options.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

He's gotta start Saka, surely. Madweke is such a such a legend.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

I'm gonna say he's probably gonna start Madweke again. I think he will. He's all direct. He's also got definitely the concept that you know, I know it's a bit cringe because Arsenal fans are talking about it, but starters and finishers, like he's definitely got that, you know, let Madweke run the fullback tired for a bit and then bring Saka. Even if he's clueless. Yeah, let him run it. Because he's pacey as fuck, so just make him go up and down that wing as many times as he can.

SPEAKER_04 11:49

He's uncomfortable. You can you imagine? I I'm not I've never played on the right back or left back, but whenever I ended up in that position, I got every time I got rinsed because the white players are quick and I was never quick. So I might just look at them and they're already in behind.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

He might play Jared Spence because of his pace. If if they play Alvarez, he's got pace, and probably you know, they were going to be fine, didn't they?

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Chatters uh that it'll be Reese James send him in if um if Rice is Rice will be fine.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

I think he will be he'll be absolutely fine.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

But he was r fumes from the start.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

He was he was like a man who had had an illness. Three days in bed, yeah. Yeah, and he gave everything, but he didn't even seem like the quality of the ball, and he just goes to show, didn't it, how much that takes out of you in that heat as well, at that level. He couldn't even seem to you know take a corner. He was running around, he was doing all the hard stuff.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

But he needs to be at it because it's gonna be messy in that position, dropping, walking around, suddenly going, and you need to be asked.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

I hope I hope he is so he can feel I gave it my best and I was at my best to test myself in the case.

SPEAKER_04 12:55

Well, yeah, because what Argentina wants, and and the only way England's gonna lose this game, I really think England's gonna be 2-3-0 up cruising in the game. I was gonna ask you.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

I was gonna ask you for your previous.

SPEAKER_04 13:06

I really think so, and I I think this is gonna be the easiest game for England. Only only if they play at a fast pace in a high tempo. If they get caught in Argentina's premiere and it's aircon stadium, so they should be able to. You know what's gonna happen in Argentina. They're gonna be basically what they're gonna do is Paraguay versus France. They're gonna be shithouses, they're gonna be pulling you.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

But England are okay with that. They've shown already, because it was like that in the Mexico game, right? I mean, that was just filth from the start.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

The RGs are better and and more more. But the good thing is the cards have all been cleared, so we don't have to worry about yellows. Yeah. So as long as it's not against the red, we're all right.

SPEAKER_04 13:43

I think that's what I mean. And and that's m that's my point. If if if England gets at them and they run them, like proper run, and that's why I was saying that Madueque is probably gonna start, because he's probably gonna use the freshest and the the most quick or rapid players to start and to just push them, push them, push them, then because the Argentina, the big bonus for England is they went 120 minutes as well. Yeah. Yeah. So They were lucky. Yeah, but but look, you can argue with England that they touched the cable. Did it? I sure can't work if it has.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

It looked to me like it did, I thought, from the replays, but this is the thing, you can't run it well.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

That's why I can't really tell, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:22

And if you can't tell it looks like the flight of the ball changes, that's why. I don't know. But anyway, it look it's done now, right? It's done, and you're you're through. The Argentinians is done, they're through, they beat the Swiss and all that. But for me, that's the secret in high tempo, they won't be able to keep up with it. What's your score prediction? 3-0 England. What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Yeah, go on, 3-0 England. No, I can't see England keeping a clean sheet, so 3-2.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

3-2. No way are we gonna be that comfortable. It just isn't gonna happen. I fucking hope you're right. But what what do you think? 1-0 or 2-1 England.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

I think it's 2-1 England. Okay. It may take extra time for us to get there. This is a team you should beat. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

This is another team we should beat. Every team that's gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

It's a World Cup semi-final like what Messi as well does. It's easy. Even at as old as he is, if he decides to show up and just do his thing, it's virtually unstoppable, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Have you seen the uh the thing of um is it Dr. Evil or who is it? But it's with um Minnie Me. Uh, and uh it's like Big Dan Byrne when Messi's fucking voice.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

I don't fancy Dan. I love I've loved it, I've really enjoyed Big Dan Byrne. It uh sort of people up.

SPEAKER_04 15:36

I don't really fancy him against Messi, no. Yeah, I don't think he's gonna start at a left back with with Messi on the right wing. I'm not saying that, but and I I'm you know, I'm not um as much as I love Dan Byrne because I'm a Newcastle fan, but the the this the the idea for me is I think it's gonna be easy for England because again, every team that England has played until now, they were the better team. If you look at like both teams, they're a better team. Messi had 37, 38. Look, he's a great player, he's always been a great player, he's always gonna be a great player.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

If you tell me that Messi's gonna destroy England, I can't say No, I no, but it's not like it's out of the question either that he could just have a half where he just plays unbelievable and bags two or three goals.

SPEAKER_04 16:14

I think those I think those days are gone.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

You think those days are gone? Yeah. Yeah, maybe. Well, let's see.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

So confidence is high.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Confidence is high. Uh, do you have you got a goal score for his in your in your prediction? First goal is going to be a defender, Consal or John Stone.

SPEAKER_04 16:30

Someone else has to score for England in this game.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Who do you if he's gonna get a goal? Gonna get a goal. Maybe the first goal. I'm going Gordon. Gordon or Kane.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

I'm going Gordon's score and Romero's get booked in the game, England go through, get that on, bet builder.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yeah, that is a good bet. Um the spur's connection.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

He's such a hooligan, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

I think Rice is gonna come up Trumps with a goal at the end.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Rice on his right foot, curling it into fast anch.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Um anyway, let's see if we're right. We can listen back to this and uh strong recommend. Strong recommend.

SPEAKER_04 17:06

Eight o'clock UK time.