Prisons & Sing Sing

Sing Sing

Sidey: Dan, it's prison week. Yeah. These are your norms. We don't have Riggs. That

Dan: is our sentence

Sidey: Yeah. We don't have Riggs. So no clever

Dan: Yeah, we're doing hard time without him

Sidey: don't have Chris either, so no, like, sexy- No ... cellmate to hang out with. We,

Dan: we can't even ask him to bend down in the showers to pick up the soap or anything,

Sidey: back on the islands today, tonight, probably now, so he couldn't make it tonight,

Dan: Hopefully he's got the bottle of Dani Olmo that we He won't be doing solitary if he can't get a

Sidey: raging. He will be doing solitary if we don't get the Olmo.

Dan: Olmo For, for regular listeners they will know that's the the mythical bottle of wine that we- Yeah we tasted and have been after ever since

Sidey: So it's just us two, and we're gonna talk about top five prisons. I kinda think we've done before, but even if we have, maybe something new will crop up. And then the movie Sing Sing- Yeah ... which I hadn't heard of before.

Dan: Which was by Domino

Sidey: Coleman. Yes.

Dan: Domino- Domina, Domino, Yeah, that

Sidey: Yeah, that guy. Yeah,

Dan: that guy. You've seen him before. But have you been watching anything else this week other than the, the homework, the necessary- Yeah ... the mandatory-

Sidey: Yeah, the-- I finished off Spider Noir. Oh, yeah. Okay.

Dan: Binged that quite quick, haven't you?

Sidey: Well, I watched some of it while I was away on it, so I downloaded it all to my iPad so I could watch it on the flights. But the flights weren't long enough to watch the whole series, so got back and I watched it on Saturday. I have a feeling that there was something else I started watching, but I can't remember. I finished Backrooms. It was silly, really. I preferred the the first half of the movie. Have you ever seen that? No. So there was a web series of it before it became a movie, and it was kind of like a- sort of X-Fi- X-Files level of creepiness, where it's just an endless sort of go into one room, there's another room. There's, like, weird furniture that's, like, halfway on the floor, halfway not.

Dan: Oh, I think I have seen a a trailer for it.

Sidey: Yeah. And then, then they made a movie out of it, and I don't wanna be that person who says, "I like the earlier stuff more," but I do like the earlier stuff more. This one they, they bring more into the sort of furniture side of it and yeah. It's all right. It's g- like, the production design's amazing, just the way that these rooms just go on and on forever. And apparently you would, you would definitely get lost if you were in there and there wasn't someone to, like, bring you back. You just would never find your way out. It's amazing. So that was cool. But that was it, I think. What about yourself?

Dan: I watched Death on the Nile.

Sidey: Oh, yeah. The Poirot- Yeah ... Kenneth Branagh- Yeah ... starring French- It's the third one, isn't it?

Dan: Yeah. I I thought I'd seen it, so I'd

Sidey: not

Dan: watched it, but then I was at a loss just going through different programs, and I thought, "Well, have I seen this?" And after watching the first five minutes where

Sidey: Probably just seen a version of it somewhere before Yeah. I, I'd lear- yeah,

Dan: yeah, exactly.

Sidey: French and Saunders are in it, aren't they?

Dan: Kenneth Branagh and Helena Bonham Carter are in it, aren't they? Yes. Yeah. Where I'd learnt the how, why he wears such a-

Sidey: Sorry, yeah, the mustache backstory ... striking mustache.

Dan: mustache, the mustache backstory. I realized, no, indeed, I have not seen this. So I, I sat and watched that. A- and I also I went into a bit of a YouTube hole, and I found out where gold comes from. Do you know where gold comes from?

Sidey: As in the precious metal? Yeah. No.

Dan: Have a stab at

Sidey: it. I, well, I don't... Like any element, well, I mean, just, just comes from existing, doesn't it?

Dan: it? It comes from space.

Sidey: Well, yeah. Doesn't, the same as anything.

Dan: But I mean, it's like the fact that it's not... It's alien to Earth. Like- Meteors ... gold is meteors that have been

Sidey: is only enough, according to Professor Brian Cox, who I'm gonna go and see live in October- Oh, heck. Yeah ... in the entire- Is

Dan: gonna do D Reeve?

Sidey: B, B movies? Well, yeah, I hope so. I wonder if he walks

Dan: He should come out for that, yeah, 'cause he owns it basically

Sidey: Yeah, the Oval, basically. There is only enough gold in the entire world to fill two swimming pools.

Dan: Two Olympic swimming pools. Yeah. That's right. Yeah, yeah. That's, that's as much gold that has- Yeah ever been mined- Yeah ... in the history of man. Yeah. And you think,

Sidey: it's so valuable,

Dan: know that, yeah ...and it's... Okay, it's time, 11 times denser than water,

Sidey: Yeah.

Dan: so that kind of swimming pool will be extra packed. But it's, it's still a, a crazy stat. And the fact that it comes from atoms being crushed together and then they've when supernovas have exploded and things, and it's found its way onto Earth it just blew my mind. Because I always thought it come from gold mine, like it was some part of the Earth crust, but actually it's not. It's- Yeah ... so-

Sidey: Well, that was

Dan: I, yeah, I went into that kind of world which was quite interesting. And I... What else did I watch? I started to watch a movie that we might end up putting forward for a,

Sidey: A Wolfie? Yeah. Okay.

Dan: a wolf week. The Wolf of Wall Street. I've, I've seen it before, but there was that, that particular scene where Margot Robbie comes into the party and and Donny's reaction to that it just got me chuckling over the weekend and I thought, "Did that really happen? I wanna go back and watch that." And yes, it did.

Sidey: Yeah. Very good.

Dan: Yeah, very good.

Sidey: Cool. Right. Shall we crack on and talk about prisons?

Dan: Yeah. Let's do, let's do this hard time.

Sidey: Right, go on, Dan. You, I guess, well, let's set the rules out. We'll probably nominate two each, and then we need one more-

Dan: I think that's fair. Yeah.

Sidey: You set the, you set the ball rolling then.

Dan: Well, I've... It, it's, it's a rich, it's a, it's a rich field

Sidey: a lot of crime out there

Dan: there's a lot of

Sidey: of prisons. There's a lot of crime out there.

Dan: One of the earlier films that I watched in my... You know, when you're really just starting to get into films- Mm-hmm ... and you're really thinking, "Oh, I've heard of this one." Yeah. It was a Daniel Day-Lewis one and with Pete Postlethwaite, and it was based on the true story of the IRA bombings- Yeah Back in the sort of '70s, '80s, I think it was. And, It was Irish Daniel Day-Lewis a- an Irishman who got coerced into confessing for a bombing that he didn't commit and got thrown into prison for it for years. He ended up doing 26 years, and it just made you made me as, as a young kind of man feel so angry about the injustice of it all really. And he was he wasn't a model citizen. He did petty robbery. I think he he might've robbed a prostitute or something like that, but he he didn't do the, the Guildford pub bombing in 1974, which killed several kind of people. But they, they ended up getting them all in there, and I think they were called the, yeah, the Maguire Seven. And this extended family including Pete Postlethwaite from Brassed Off and a few other kind of great movies are seen to be accessories to it. And eventually there's a lawyer who's working to t- to get the-

Sidey: To exonerate them ... the scene

Dan: again and to get exonerated because it's un- un- unsure Emma Thompson. And and then it was the questioning on behalf of the police as well with the four that were the kind of a- in- accused of it. Gerry Conlon was the, the name of the guy, and I remember actually him being released when I was a kid.

Sidey: Right.

Dan: And the story of, of it all being like, you know-

Sidey: when you get out after that-

Dan: Oh, you know, it, it... Well, he's, I think

Sidey: relieved to be out, but mega bitter about having been in ... I think his- I don't know, it'd be so weird ... his

Dan: dad actually died while he was inside as well, and he got a bit of trouble in there. It's a great movie. He got a... And Daniel Day-Lewis, you know, obviously

Sidey: just- He's like Meryl Streep for me. I just can't-

Dan: Oh, really? No, I really like him. I re- m- he did My Left Foot. He done loads of movies.

Sidey: that the one where he's a quadriplegic or whatever? Yeah, yeah. He would make ... He, he's so method, he would make people carry him around on set. Fuck off- Yeah with all that shit. Fucking hate all that. Yeah.

Dan: But it, it produced, like, the results, you know. And at one point I remember it sticks in my mind where there was actual gangsters or, or the, the villains, the IRA bombers that knew that he hadn't done it. Yeah. But they were in prison, and he was getting a tough time, like, you know, from other prisoners. And in the end, he, he c- I dunno whether he so- he never really sought protection. He never wanted to get involved too much in, in with them and e- everything. No. But

Sidey: or anything. They would look after him, yeah. But

Dan: he just went over to one of these guys, he's, who was owning the prison, like he was the, the top daddy. Yeah. And this Irishman just come over and he goes 22 Dock Street." And he just gave the address of his family, like, you know, of, of this tough guy's family. And that's all he did. He just gave the address to him, and then he knew that any more trouble, his whole family were gonna be blown up, like- Yeah ... you know, by the, So, and, and Gerry Conlon, who's, who's innocent of all these kind of really bad crimes and everything, is just sat back and they go, "Irish is all right. Irish is all right." You know, and then they just leave him alone again. So he never got any more trouble because all he had to do was just say, "I know the address of, of your family, where you live." Like, and that was, that was the IRA, IRA guys. So he, they, they knew that he was doing time and he was an innocent man, like, and they couldn't do anything to save him, but that was you know, a, a true story. Injustice. A struggle for, for truth and that kind of courage and resilience because as you say, the, the institutional failure, how'd you get through all that and come out. And they give him a few quid. Of course they did, sort of, you know, to to get on with his life and everything. But you take 26 years of the best of your life and,

Sidey: no amount of money's giving you that

Dan: amount of money you can have there's no amount of money,

Sidey: no amount of money. Right. How... But I guess, like, for, if you asked, like, if you were doing Pointless and you asked 100 people, "Name a movie, a prison movie"- Yeah Shawshank's

Dan: Shawshank's

Sidey: 100 out of 100. Yeah. Or certainly high 90s.

Dan: So it's

Sidey: So it's Shawshank State Penitentiary and we see Tim Robbins getting taken in there and amongst other inmates and the, the people who are the, the prisoners who have been in there a while all take bets on who's the first one that's gonna crack on the first night, new fish.

Dan: Yeah, it's horrible.

Sidey: And Red's Morgan Freeman's like, you know, it was always gonna be Andy Dufresne, and he doesn't crack. He never cracks. Mm-hmm. He never... He's, he's tough. He's a, he's fucking made of sterner stuff than that. And we see his life in prison and all the shit, all the, the antics he gets up to and all the tunneling that he also gets up to.

Dan: And, and yeah, I mean, well, he's, he's gang raped, isn't he? He's he's given a real hard

Sidey: take what I give you," he says to him ... and

Dan: I'd like to tell you that he fought 'em off

Sidey: he, but- Were they the sisters or something? Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: it didn't happen each time

Sidey: then he crawls through 50 foot of shit or something like that through the, through the sewer tunnels in the end, and then you see him, his arms aloft, you know, with the s- the rain washing down on him, and then he's in Mexico or wherever it is with his boat. But there's other things, you know, it's as hard a time as you could pretty much do. He does some solitary in there for some of the shit he gets up to playing the music or,

Dan: well, at one point he's nearly thrown off the roof, isn't he, by the prisoners

Sidey: "Do you trust your wife?" Yeah. And that guy, he was a real fucking asshole.

Dan: Yeah.

Sidey: And the warden of course as well, but he kills himself. He takes the cowardly way out. Salvation lay within, you know, 'cause that's where he stashes the thing in the book, in the good book. It's a Stephen King one, and then Frank Darabont, who made that, went and then followed that up with "The Green Mile," which is also a prison movie and also fucking excellent too.

Dan: King is just... His mind- Yeah is just,

Sidey: like,

Dan: unbelievable because it's not just the horror

Sidey: films. Mm. It's, it's

Dan: these edge-of-your-seat kind of thrillers and,

Sidey: I think "Shawshank" was quite notable 'cause it, it was a... It did nothing at the box office. It just kind of... It was probably too long for people at the cinema. It wasn't a Stephen King horror. People were like, "What is this thing?" And then as soon as it went

Dan: On

Sidey: On VHS ... on people watched at home- Yeah ... people were like fucking lapped it up. It was a huge, huge hit at home. Well- Yeah ... I

Dan: just like top of most IMDb charts

Sidey: Yeah ... for forever. It's got that real good feelgood vibe to it where there's, you know, two and a half hours of fucking misery really, but he, you know, he wins in the end. So that's, that's a good one.

Dan: The Birdman of Alcatraz.

Sidey: Alcatraz? Yeah Alcatraz even.

Dan: Alcatraz. I think he plays

Sidey: You been to Alcatraz? I've not.

Dan: to Alcatraz? I've not. No, I've not been to Alca- Alcatraz. I think I've looked at it as a kid across the,

Sidey: been to San Fran?

Dan: Yeah. Right. Been to San Fran,

Sidey: so, yeah. There was some bullshit chat that Trump's lot wanted to fucking get it going again, for me, like- Yeah, yeah it's just not gonna happen, dick.

Dan: But th- this was the old Burt Lancaster one. And I watched this again back when it first came out in 1912. No

Sidey: but it was set in

Dan: it was set in 1912. So you had this violent kind of notorious prisoner. And he went to Leavenworth Prison convicted for murdering a man. And a guard cancels a visit of his mother due to a violation or due to, to something he's done wrong. So, he does what any angry prison- prisoner gets when he can't see his mum. He stabs him and kills him. And he's he's sentenced to be executed then. But his mum writes to the president who commutes it to a life imprisonment.

Sidey: But

Dan: but the warden's like, " Well, okay, you might be alive, but I'm gonna make it the worst kind of-

Sidey: Mm

Dan: of your life." And he makes it solitary for him then. So he gives him solitary for the rest of his life. And one day he finds a little sparrow that's fallen from, in the nest, and he raises the bird until it's strong enough to- Mm ... kind of fly again. And he becomes an expert in birds and, and caring for them and everything. And i- in, in the end, he, he's kind of, transferred to Alcatraz, and he's gotta leave his, his birds behind. But, The Birdman

Sidey: of Alcatraz.

Dan: of Alcatraz.

Sidey: I remember the Clint Eastwood one, Escape From Alcatraz. Yeah. And there was that guy in the, in the film, the one that really sticks with me is he was,

Dan: wasn't the

Sidey: It wasn't the Birdman who actually, but it was another guy who was painting and something goes awry for him, so he just gets a big fucking knife and chops off his own fingers. Do you remember that scene? It's fucking awful. And then they, when they g- the other one was when they go to check everyone at night and Clint's got this almost like comedic, like fucking dummy that he's made of papier-mâché, a dummy of

Dan: "Ah." And he's

Sidey: back like, "Oh." Yeah. And he's just screwed out through the corner. And supposedly the waters are dead, dead treacherous around there, so they never, they never found him, never heard from him again. Assumed dead, but who knows?

Dan: knows? Never seen a body.

Sidey: No. Exactly. So we don't know. It also cropped up, and I wish Pete was here 'cause he's really good at doing the the voice of Sean Connery from The Rock. Oh. Womack. Yeah. Yeah. And Nic Cage and Sean Connery in a... Who's that w- Oh my God, who directed it? Riggs fucking hates him. Bay. Michael Bay, yeah. Yeah. But I think he actually likes that one. Yeah. And we reviewed it for the pod, so you can check that out. So Alcatraz, that's always gonna be in the conversation.

Dan: Yeah, for prisons.

Sidey: Yeah.

Dan: Did you ever see the the film Brubaker?

Sidey: No.

Dan: so this was the, the film with Robert Redford. And he goes into prison disguised as an inmate, but actually he's the new warden. Never. And he just wants to see what it's like. He sees firsthand all the corruption and how- Right ... badly they deal with him, the scams and,

Sidey: and

Dan: and when... I remember the, the scene where he's Taken out of prison out of being in a dark room. Like, they've stuck him in a dark room for weeks or days, and then it's the brightest part of the day, and they're bringing him out, and he's, he can't...

Sidey: Oh, his can't adjust. Yeah ... he can't even look. His eyes aren't

Dan: look. His eyes aren't adjusted. They're just stinging and everything. And later when he's warden, 'cause he reveals himself- Yeah ... and they're like, "Oh, fuck." Like, you know, "This is, this is bad." They know how bad they treated him. Yeah. They know, you know, how, He gives sunglasses to the prisoners that are coming out of that kind of block- Right ... just as he's a, he's a bit more compassionate. And he starts making you know, reforms and things like that. But yeah, he, he was apparently based on the real-life efforts of, of a prison warden who must have been

Sidey: to do it a different way ... you

Dan: trying to do it a different way back in the

Sidey: I did see there was a thing in the news in the last fortnight or so about... Do you remember that Anders Breivik, the one in Norway who- Yeah ... killed about 90-odd people?

Dan: yeah, yeah

Sidey: yeah. And they were talking about his prison conditions, and he's kept in a... He's solitary, but it's effectively almost like an apartment. So it's not treat him like as miserably and- It's,

Dan: a Swedish kind of...

Sidey: specialized for him, but they were saying there's just no point. You're not... You're never gonna achieve anything. You know, the amount of reoffending that people do if you just put into like miserable conditions with other miserable, miserable people, you know, what chance of... Not that, obviously not that Breivik's gonna be rehabilitated. He'll never be out. But other people, you know, you just- I don't know what the actual statistic is after the re- reoffending stuff, but if you just carry on doing what you're doing all the time with this shit, with this fucking misery- Yeah, no, I mean, s- like it doesn't work. Clearly. Clearly doesn't work.

Dan: Great Britain right now, we've got,

Sidey: i- it's

Dan: in the news, isn't it? Like, they're, they're letting out prisoners anybody who's not, not d- guilty of violent crime, and even to the point of manslaughter, where they're letting out the, the, the two of the guys that were involved in the murder of or the manslaughter of a police officer- Yeah and he got caught in the car door, and they just drove away. Fuck. And he ended up dying, this, this young police officer, and they weren't much older than him really, you know, all in their early 20s or something. But they're letting th-them out after half their sentence or whatever, and it's... They're up in arms. But the prison system is just completely at breaking point- Mm ... apparently. I mean, I think there's... You know, that's, that's wrong in my eyes that they'd, they'd let these two guys out that,

Sidey: one from a- ... didn't look

Dan: didn't look very kind of, sorry for what they'd done anyway.

Sidey: How about a TV one, from a TV series? Go on. It's completely preposterous in the best possible way. "Prison Break," did you ever watch that when it was on? Mm-hmm.

Dan: Mm-hmm.

Sidey: So the, the elder brother is in prison and the younger brother has himself incarcerated somehow knowing that he'll go to the same prison To the

Dan: same prison,

Sidey: prison, yeah ... and then whips off his shirt and he has the prison blueprints tattooed onto himself so that they can titular prison break Prison break ... and we get to meet all the really cool people in prison like T-Bag and Peter Stormare's in there. I can't remember his character. I think he was the maybe s- the sort of like ringleadery type dude. He was a big gangster or something like that. And I remember really enjoying season one and then something like that where it's so preposterous it should... I'm with Chris on these ones. This should have a short shelf life. Two- Don't drag it out. I think this had maybe five, six seasons. Five, I think- Five. And then he was number one ... of like being in prison, being out of prison on the run, back into prison. Like this is fucking ridiculous. So the stupidness is fun up until a point and then, you know, no, I'm out Scum I never saw this You never saw Scum? No So,

Dan: Ray Winstone, a young Ray Winstone. It's a-

Sidey: It's the Borstal

Dan: Yeah, it's borstal Yeah It's, it's a real jarring film. You know, it's, it's a real, ... There's not, there's not many laughs in

Sidey: this. No "

Dan: i'm the governor now." He gets two,

Sidey: It's the pool- Two or three- ... pool balls in there ... pool balls in a

Dan: sock- ... pool balls, yeah and starts swinging that around, and the,

Sidey: the prison

Dan: warden and guards are going, "Right, okay. You're in charge now." Because he knows they need a, a, a daddy. "I'm the daddy now."

Sidey: like- Keep everyone in line

Dan: to keep everybody in line." And Ray Winstone goes in there and he's taking no shit off no one. Yeah You know, he's, ... But it's, it's really kind of tough to watch, and it's yeah, uncompromising, as I would say. Midnight Express was another prison one that I watched when I was a kid about,

Sidey: that in transporting?

Dan: Hayes. He's an American college student caught smuggling drugs out of Turkey and thrown into prison. And it's yeah, it's, it's pretty,

Sidey: pretty

Dan: bad. I think at one point, I'm not sure if I'm getting confused here with another movie, but I think at one point they ... He's got some kind of contraband and they're looking for it. And what he's done, he's melted it around ... He's melted the candle around it- Oh, right so he's got all the wax, and they c- they're looking everywhere, but i- in fact he's, he's hi- hid the contraband- Genius, yeah ... yeah, in the in the, in this candle wax. But that was, you know, like or any of these Thai, Malaysian prison stories they're

Sidey: They're the place to be. We did the Thai one for, Yeah ... the pod, me. The Scouse guy who got done for drugs.

Dan: Ah, yes.

Sidey: Fairly grim

Dan: the kickboxing- Yeah ... kind of one. Yeah.

Sidey: that was pretty miserable. There is a couple of fictional ones I wanted to chuck in there. One is The Pit. Do you remember that, where that might be from? No. This is from the third of the "Dark Knight" ones, the Batman Christian Bale ones. Right. The third one is where Bane was from, and where Batman ends up when after he breaks his back and is chucked down there, and he has to rise up. Oh, yeah. He's got to- He literally, he rises. The Dark Knight- Yeah ... rises through the-

Dan: you've gotta jump over

Sidey: the last bit of leap of faith bit that you have to take, and they're chanting something. Yeah. It's just

Dan: Yeah, make it or,

Sidey: Make it or fake it or whatever. So he goes up through there. And the other one's Azkaban from the "Harry Potter" series. First of all, we get his godfather Sirius Black escapes out of there, and later on we see the Death Eaters break out Bellatrix and whatnot from... It's this mad... It almost looks like a letter M. But it's this crazy prison out into the sea where all the naughty wizards get sent. So yeah, a couple of fictional ones. And then another one that we've seen a million times, Stalag Luft

Dan: III. Right. That's

Sidey: III. Right. That's "The Great Escape." Say no more about that one. It's been done to death. After that, I'm just gonna... No, I've got a couple music ones then on nom.

Dan: Okay. Well, there's, there's a music one makes me think of, of San Quentin. Yeah

Sidey: folsom Prison Blues

Dan: that, that would be one of them. My nom would have to be, like, Devil's Island in Papillon. I knew

Sidey: I knew "Papillon" would be your nom. I can hear it, Yeah. It, it's

Dan: you got Steve McQueen and Dustin Hoffman set out there. And after a long kind of incarceration there Henri Charriere, played by Steve McQueen, has still never given up hope of being free. And he's watched the waves, and he watched the sets come in, and he goes, "The seventh one takes you out." And he gets his bag of coconuts, lobs them out onto the sea, and and then does this kind of 100-foot drop into the sea on the waves and and makes it out. And we know he makes it out because it was a true story, and he ended up writing Another story, Banco, after Papillon. But a, a hell of a story that, And they did remake it, and it wasn't too bad. Is

Sidey: Is that the Charlie Hunnam one?

Dan: Yeah. It wasn't too bad. It, it made me,

Sidey: hard

Dan: like, well, it made me think I didn't wanna see it, to be honest. You know? yeah yeah It, it was like leave that alone. You, you don't need to- Yeah ... to go back to that. But, I think because I played it down in my mind, it, it actually came out okay.

Sidey: So Papillon and A and Other. Got one more for us?

Dan: Well, I'll let you, you add one and then,

Sidey: my first... Well, some music ones, I mean, we mentioned Johnny Cash there. He famously did Folsom Prison Blues. Was that the live album one? In prison, the Folsom Prison, obviously. San Quentin and Elvis, of course, Jailhouse Rock. I Fought the Law by The Clash. I Fought the Law, yeah ... and John Lennon, Attica State, which references the Attica Prison riots. But my first nom, again, back to TV it's one of those, I'm gonna say British classics where it doesn't go on forever. There is not millions and millions of episodes, but they're all solid gold. The setting is HMP Slade Prison.

Dan: Ah, yes. Porridge.

Sidey: Norman Fletcher.

Dan: It's Andy Norman Fletcher. You get the,

Sidey: you get the the voiceover at the start where he's being sentenced and sent

Dan: prison. You've got no

Sidey: right, yeah. And that is, of course, Ronnie Barker playing Fletcher in Porridge. His cellmate is Lennie Godber, played by Richard Beckinsale, Kate's dad, and it actually is this time. And it's brilliant. You've got all the other great characters of Mr. Mackay and Mr. Barrowclough, the two screws, if you like. One's- Yeah ... dead soft and one's absolutely

Dan: Barrowclough... Yeah.

Sidey: Yeah. Well, the Mackay's fucking tough as old boots. Yeah. And then you kind of get to see how the rest of the, the prison system works. You've got the guy, the inmate who fucking runs the show is living a pretty cushy life, and then how everything else works. And through it all, you've got Fletcher just kind of like trying to stay out of trouble, wisecracking. I remember this very fondly.

Dan: Yeah. This I, I loved Porridge and yeah, obviously they did the films, they did the series,

Sidey: was Going Straight then after, wasn't it? With Fletcher out of Slade. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah, he had,

Sidey: know if that was quite so good

Dan: It, it, no, no, I think the, the series was just an absolute classic. One I watched when I was a kid and it was one of those films that, that really brought

Sidey: forth

Dan: the, the horrors of the Holocaust actually. It was Escape from Sobibor. I don't know if you've ever seen this film. I've probably not

Sidey: real laugh

Dan: since ... It, it's, it's not a laughy one. But it also had the most successful escape out of World War by Jewish people got out of these death camps and everything. But you saw what they were doing. You saw the, like the,

Sidey: tough going to put

Dan: it wa- I, you know, it was just on. I remember my mom and dad watching it, and we were only kinda young and watching it as well. And I think they just wanted us to ... They didn't say, you know, "Don't watch this." They weren't forcing us to watch or anything, but they weren't saying, "No, don't," because I think they realized, you know, this is It, it was quite true and, you know, historically factual to, to what had happened the film. But yeah, you, you had these people w- who obviously

Sidey: The, the

Dan: camp Treblinka had an escape and a similar camp in Sobibor. It would never do the same thing. They said they would, they would never get there. But they knew that they were only on borrowed time, so they kind of made a plan and- Mm ... and overran them and, and did it all. And, you know- Yeah ... seeing them just to go, "Fuck it. I mean, we're, we're, we're gonna rise up and,

Sidey: anyway, so- Yeah ... might as well try and do something, yeah. It,

Dan: it was ... And walking out the front door, saying, "We're gonna walk out straight out the fucking front door. That's how we're gonna do it." Like, you know, we're ain't tunneling out or shit like that. And yeah, it was about 300, I think escaped. But it was it was, it was a tough watch, and it was o- another one of those films that just sticks with you when you're when you're young to, to have seen it. But yeah, I, I could do with watching it again, but it was in my mind for this one.

Sidey: My other nom is gonna be... Well, the prison that featured in it is Glades Correctional Institution in Florida. And hero of the movie is a bank robber. He gets caught and sent there. And while he's in there learns about another big score that he might be able to, to do when he gets out. But he's not gonna sit in prison and rot, so they break out, and it's George Clooney, and they dig a tunnel under the, There's a, there's a gang of them, and they dig a tunnel under the fence and

Dan: Have they got the old black and white stripes on? Yeah.

Sidey: Jennif- Jennifer Lopez

Dan: Jennifer Lopez,

Sidey: just happens to be in the in the sort of parking lot area where they appear. And he grabs her and chucks her... He ends up in the boot of the car with her while the other guy drives off. And it's... I really like this film. It's really good. It's Steven Soderbergh movie, and it's Elmore Leonard's adaptation. And the film is great. Clooney's fucking brilliant in it, and Jennifer Lopez is fucking really good in it. And I always think, "Why don't you just stick to making, like, really good, really cool films?" 'Cause she can act a bit. She's pretty good. Yeah. And I think her musical career and her fucking whole ego went completely like unchecked, and she seems to me to be a total dick. And yet you could've, you know- You could, you could've been something ... turned out decent stuff- Yeah ... and you could have made decent, you know... So I

Dan: Bad choices by good-

Sidey: hot in this as well ... good actresses as well. And Clooney's sensationally hot in this as well. It's got Steve Zahn and, The other fellow that I can't think of his name is Luis something or other. It's also got Catherine Keener in who I always really had the hots for, and she's playing a magician's assistant in this. Yeah, it's so many good-looking people in it, but the film is also cool as fuck. So it's a strong recommend for Out of Sight. So my sort of porridge and Out of Sight, you've got Papillon and the Escape From-

Dan: From"- ... Sobibor.

Sidey: And we need A and other from, Somebody out there ... from a listener. Yeah. Sing Sing?

Dan: Sing Song Right.

Sidey: This movie, and you can watch this on iPlayer, 'cause that's where I watched it, is Sing Sing.

Dan: Yeah. It's

Sidey: 2023. Pretty

Dan: new in the world of films 'cause we're only in 2026 now.

Sidey: Yeah. And that name again, you couldn't get at the start, is Colm Domingo.

Dan: Yeah. He was one of the three tenors, wasn't he?

Sidey: Yeah. Well, the film starts and he's on stage, and he's perf- he is performing. He is performing. Yeah. And it's not immediately obvious that they're in prison at this point. He's, It's like all sort of lit blue-

Dan: lit from behind,

Sidey: and he's doing his performance to the,

Dan: is there

Sidey: and he seems like he's pretty good. Yeah. But it, it does turn out to be... And this is a, this is a true story, right? Yeah. This is adapted from- It's a documentary ... rehabilitation Through The Arts at Sing Sing

Dan: Yeah. Maximum security prison. And it's as, as you say, it, it... for the first few minutes you think they could be on Broadway, they could be at a, a, you know, a, a decent theater somewhere, but in fact soon they're being asked to do all the things that prisoners... to stand to attention, you know, Yeah. Yeah,

Sidey: yeah. They're- Make sure that, you know- This

Dan: you know-

Sidey: this is a proper prison

Dan: you've got your the space in between people and,

Sidey: and I think I'm right in saying that quite a few people in the cast are actual- They're actual- members of the- ... formerly- ... of the group ... incarcerated men. Yeah ... yeah, who are in the, this sort of troupe. A- alumni. Yeah. And so what it is, it's an all-male kind of drama thing where there's the guy... He's not a prisoner though, is he, the other guy? Is he a volunteer? The- The director dude ... the,

Dan: the director dude I think is somebody who comes in to help them.

Sidey: running this- Yeah ... this, And what it is is a, you know, a way to get these guys engaged and work together and do all this stuff. A little bit like they tried to do in

Dan: like they tried to do in Angels

Sidey: Angels with Dirty Faces with the, with the lads getting involved in team sport and trying to learn the rules around it. So this is trying to get them engaged in something rather than just, you know, what prison could be. Trying to do something positive. And so you get all these... And they're kind of a ragtag bunch of so different. I mean, there's one guy who's got tattoos, like, all over his head and all down his face. Yeah, like real, like- ... tribal tattoos- Yeah ... like, down his face. And these guys are in there for, you know, either drug dealing or violent crime or whatever it is. So there's a real, you know, different-

Dan: different- Murder Yeah. Well, yeah, what- whatever, whatever it is.

Sidey: But the, but Colman Domingo, he is, Divine G ... John Divine G. Whitfield, and he is in there for a crime he didn't commit.

Dan: Yeah, and he, he's got a, a real sense of purpose- Mm ... in this,

Sidey: a true believer in this acting life.

Dan: Yeah. He, he loves it. The, this is... He's good at it as well. Yeah And he's, he's writing stories himself. It's obvious that this group of men have been doing this for a little while together. They're quite comfortable within- Yeah ... their scene

Sidey: and,

Dan: and they're encouraging of each other as well.

Sidey: yeah, yeah. With the, It's a real good bonding experience for them all. They they're like a brotherhood, if you like. There's, there's him, and he's particularly close, I think it's his, his cell neighbor, Mike Mike. Yeah. And they chat to each other through the, through the walls. There's... They got a little window thing, so, you know, openings on the door

Dan: exactly. Chat

Sidey: They're, next- ... sort of shout out to each other ...they're next, to each

Dan: they're next to each other And they And Mike Mike's kinda got a shaven head with a little- Weird ...

Sidey: weird

Dan: like a Buddhist- He does ... tail at the back or something. He's got the... He, he looks like a, you know, a monk or something- Yeah ... a Buddhist monk. He's, he's,

Sidey: and you think if Divine G didn't have this, he would be a mess, I think.

Dan: Yeah. I mean, he's

Sidey: a good guy- 'Cause he's- ... isn't he? But he's-

Dan: 'Cause he's- ... isn't he?

Sidey: got... He's definitely got this feeling of injustice. He's saying he's not... He's didn't do it. So at least this gives him a purpose. But if he could do Shakespeare in every performance, you know, he certainly would. He's, he's a, a drama- He's a

Dan: thespian and he's, he loves walking the boards and, and although he doesn't outwardly say it, he likes the attention the other guys give him for being good. And and he helps them. He, he kinda goes, "Let me..." And he also with a directory, he knows that he's got some kind of influence and he's, he can interpret- Yeah ... what the director wants

Sidey: and, yeah. He's definitely taken on a sort of leadership role, 'cause obviously the director's not there day to day. He'll come in for their sessions, and he'll help them out. But,

Dan: and he's the, the, the star playwright and performer, and he's he's got depth and talent and and he also wants to prove his his innocence and get his freedom. And he, he's got a couple other little... You know, he, he's, he's educated man, so he's tries to get his you know, other people either involved in this program but also maybe helping them with their appeals and stuff

Sidey: like that. Yeah. But they, they're gonna need maybe new recruits.

Dan: There's a new production.

Sidey: They're gonna... They've just finished their last. We've just seen it. We've seen it at the very start of the film, and now it's onto the next thing.

Dan: And we know probably not this early on, but around this, it, they happen about every six months- Yeah these productions. So a couple a year.

Sidey: they're kind of scoping out this guy in the yard. He's called Clarence. Another Divine. And I think this is weird. They're, one's Divine G and one's Divine Eye Macklin. Yeah. And they see him shake down this guy.

Dan: Guy, White guy Yeah.

Sidey: "Where's this fucking shit? Where's my fucking money? Give me my money."

Dan: He's obviously giving him- Extra bags ... yeah, he's giving him something to hold, and then when he's giving it him back, he said, "That's not what I gave you." You know, " Where's my real shit? Where's my real... You're gonna hold me... You owe me $500 now. I don't give a fuck how you get it. Get me $500." And this guy's just like, "Oh, fuck." Like, "I'm in trouble here."

Sidey: get a hiding here if I don't... Yeah, so, so they, they clock him doing that. He's got no personality. And he doesn't strike you as the sort of person who would be up for joining an acting troupe. Like, he just

Dan: like But yeah, no, but he has put his name forward

Sidey: He's up for it, yeah. Sort of, but he's conflicted, I think, because if he's, if his homies, you know, in inverted commas, saw him-

Dan: commas, saw him- Yeah

Sidey: he would, that would not be, that would not go down well. So he's, he's sort of up for it, but also he's not all in just yet. So they, they kind of, they do that. It's almost like like a meeting, like an AMI, whether you will get a chance to speak, but they- Yeah ... this is where they, they sort of brainstorm ideas for the next production. And it's actually Divine Eye who says, "Well, fuck it, let's just do a comedy," you know? And,

Dan: they were gonna at one point do Divine G's written, he's, he's written a, a, a play, and he's kinda ke- you know. "Oh, no, no, don't do it." "Oh, go tell us. Tell us." And he goes, "Oh, actually that sounds okay. Yeah. Okay." And he, he's explaining how it going and then as they're about to go on with that Divine Eye goes, "Just no res- you know, respect for everyone, but I think something else completely different, this comedy." And it ends up being like-

Sidey: Well, he says- ... fucking hilarious ... he,

Dan: a bit of everything

Sidey: in here is hard enough, you know?" Yeah. "Let's give everyone a laugh." And they're a bit like,

Dan: "Yeah."

Sidey: "Yeah." Well, he's, Divine G's like, "I dunno, like, I'd just rather do, like, something serious." And they put it to a vote, and and they just, they just sort of brainstorm some ideas. And this is the, this is the performance that they actually did do in real life, and it's called,

Dan: but it's, it's just with... It's like an Egyptian

Sidey: Breaking ... It's the, it's called Breaking the Mummy's Code. Yeah. And the ideas that they shout out, oh it's all out. The, the idea is that they shout, and it's one of these things where there's no wrong ideas. It's gonna be a show involving time travel, ancient Egyp- a- ancient Egypt, pirates, cowboys, Freddy Krueger, and Hamlet. Yeah ... and so the director guy has the weekend, I think, after this to go and write it, and,

Dan: Which he does. He comes back with like 140 pages. Yeah. And he goes "Well, you know what? It's just started writing itself after a while, and you know, it's it's all there."

Sidey: all there." And

Dan: they, they cl- so he's not pleased, Divine G.

Sidey: No, he's raging 'cause he wanted to do a, he wanted to show his ac- his acting chops. Yeah. And he's annoyed that they're doing a comedy. He's even more annoyed when you then start seeing people trying out, that Divine Eye, who had suggested doing comedy, is only auditioning for the role of Hamlet,

Dan: The one serious part in it.

Sidey: So they sort of clash over that.

Dan: And he does say to him, "Well, why, why are you ... You know, you wanted a comedy. Why are you doing, going for the one serious part?" And he goes, "Comedy's hard, man." It's like, "Yeah, that's why I didn't fucking wanna do it." But

Sidey: "Yeah, that's why I didn't fucking wanna do it." But

Dan: they all kind of engage in the acting exercises led by the director.

Sidey: Yeah, I thought this was quite good, 'cause you see these sort of tough guys having to do all these-

Dan: Right. Walk

Sidey: might describe of, like, silly- Yeah they have to sort of be a bit daft, if you like, and do all these exercises where, you know, they're pretending to be this, that, and the other, which- Yeah ... certainly for Divine Eye- They're all laughing ... is, wouldn't come naturally

Dan: he... And he doesn't get involved in it to

Sidey: He doesn't ... he's not there, is he? They sometimes they just show the, show the shot of his chair, and it's empty. He hasn't turned

Dan: He hasn't turned up. He hasn't turned up, and he, he's he's not really able to,

Sidey: he can't throw himself into it just yet ... tap

Dan: the emotions But, Divine G kind of wants to help and he, he wants the, it to be a success even though it wasn't the, the bit that he did. He's gonna be a gladiator in it, and he just gets on board and goes, "Right, fuck it. I'll, I'll jump on board with whatever- Yeah ... anybody else is doing. I'm not gonna be like this is about me." And, and he, he goes forward with the piece. And running parallel to this is the fact that he's got a, a a hearing coming up.

Sidey: Yeah, clemency like an appeal coming up ... clemency hearing, yeah.

Dan: and he's fairly confident because he's got a,

Sidey: Someone's confessed ... a tape recording. Someone else has confessed to the, the killing that he's in for. And they actually... It's fucking horrible actually. They, they throw his acting, his interest in acting back at him to say, "Well, how, how can we believe you're genuine then?" And you're like, "Ouch."

Dan: he just can't even see. He goes, "Yo, well, you think I'm... No, no, I am, I am really sincere to you now," as he's talking to this three-person

Sidey: actually. But they

Dan: It's

Sidey: see how,

Dan: horrible, actually. But they wanna see how, how he reacts, I guess. You know? Yeah ... and the fact that the, the guy who's done the confession has died they can't further interview or verify just means that that confession becomes fuck all to them. And

Sidey: g-

Dan: knows b- through helping Divine Eye with his appeal and we know that if it's comes as the the reply comes back as thick as a book, you're there, you're fucked.

Sidey: You-

Dan: you're gonna be there for another f- few years. Yeah. If it comes back as thin as like a piece of

Sidey: paper- Stand approved. Bang, you're done ... you're out. Yeah.

Dan: you know, you, you're fine. And, and both these guys are going through their appeals at the same time, and as he's helping him with the acting, he's also helping him with the appeals. And

Sidey: as

Dan: he comes back, Divine G the acting superhero comes back and he gets this thick book w- of a reply. He knows

Sidey: that he's fucked. Well, he, he sort of hits rock bottom a little bit because there's a- Yeah ... sudden death of Mike Mike. He has a brain aneurysm. Yeah. Mike Mike. So Mike, you re- feel for him 'cause Mike Mike's gone who... And they were, they were super tight. They were next door cellmates and also in the, in the troupe, and they were... Anything to discuss, you know, it was always them chatting through. Yeah. So he's gone. He's had his clemency hearing rejected. He has a real fucking ding-dong with Divine Eye. They pulls him to one side in a room and he, and Divine Eye's like, "Don't ever fucking like bring me, you know, into a room like this- Yeah and threaten me," you know? He... And, and the problem with Divine Eye is he's not able to be vulnerable or do all this stuff because he's still got a kind of street mentality.

Dan: got the

Sidey: He's sort of thinking, "Well, what would my fucking mates think if they saw me doing this?" So he's not all in, but he does come round in the end and Divine Eye, like you say, is helping him with his own hearing. And they really, they, they have a few... They bump heads quite a bit w- th- there when they first meet each other, but they do develop a real bond, and Mike Mike passing away just reinforces that what they're doing here is not just putting on a performance. It's making connections, making bonds with your s- you know, your inmates, your fellow inmates- Yeah and making life in there just more bearable.

Dan: And you see these other guys in there who are hard men, who have done bad things. And they just don't wa- He g- One guy goes, that big guy, he goes, "I used to be like the lock man," or whatever it was. I don't know even know what that meant, but you, you got it to feel like he was the guy

Sidey: he certainly wasn't protesting his innocence. No. Whatever he was in for. He, he was... He said,

Dan: he was g- He said, you know, "I've seen people getting their, their throat slit right in front of me," and probably did it himself, and he said, "I just don't wanna go back to that," you know? "This is what we're, this is what we're trying to tap into here." And it's, yeah, th-they have their ups and downs and, and I say a little bit later on, we understand that these actors actually are, a lot of them are prisoners. They're

Sidey: legit. Yeah, yeah. From the- They're actually- They're from the thing. So what happens, what, whether, like, the real sort of drive of the plot is that Divine Eye's p- parole is denied. Divine... No, sorry, Divine G's- Divine G, yeah ... is, is rejected and Divine Eye's is approved. And it ends up with the combination of that and Mike Mike that Divine G just has a total meltdown. Yeah. It's a bit much, isn't it?

Dan: a

Sidey: he just, like, kicks the whole thing into touch and-

Dan: lost hope that any of it's gonna make a difference. Yeah. And he calls it out for what he has defended in the past to other people. "Look, this is shit, what we do in these costumes, this thing." Yeah. "This doesn't mean nothing. It's not gonna help." But they do understand that everybody's got their own issues and their own troubles, and they then let him back into the troupe before opening night.

Sidey: Yeah

Dan: and they go back and everybody reconciles. He apologizes and everyone assures him, you know, "You're welcome again." 'Cause they've all had their moments. They all know-

Sidey: Yeah, it's tough, innit?

Dan: what it's like.

Sidey: First of all... Well, they do the production of course, but then Divine Eye, he, he gets his date and he's released. And it's almost sort of bittersweet for him because he's changed- Yeah ... because of all this, and yet he's having to go back out into the world where he came from. Yeah. And yet,

Dan: And we know that his son is in prison now. Yeah.

Sidey: it's gonna be difficult for him to go back out because he's not the same. He can't- Yeah ... exist in the same way as he, he did, you know, pre being in prison.

Dan: in prison.

Sidey: And we go back, and it's a couple of years later that Divine G has granted his

Dan: I think it's seven years

Sidey: it's seven years. It's seven, is it?

Dan: which he... Because they just, they, they show like, Maybe they don't show that quite clearly afterwards, but doing a bit of research afterwards, it, it was, and you just see that they do these shows, and they just do this little montage of all these different shows and everything that comes through, and then eventually that thin kind of piece of paper comes through- Right ... and his his appeal is is recognized, and he, he leaves the prison, walks out, and he walks

Sidey: Divine Eye is there to greet him

Dan: walks down the around the s- like skirts the, the fence line, and there's nobody there just right outside. But as he, as he's still kind of wandering around the fence line of the prison and just looking into it and, and just sucking it in

Sidey: just sucking it in

Dan: and breathing it in, there's, there's Divine

Sidey: Eye. Small sob.

Dan: And he just gives him a big hug. Yeah. And you're just like, Fuck." You know, that's, He knows what it's been like, you know? Yeah. For, he, he knows better than anyone. He's there waiting for him.

Sidey: Yeah, so he must have done a f- fair old stretch then. Yeah.

Dan: And- And

Sidey: is that legit? He didn't do it. Are we, we ha- Are we... Do we know that for sure?

Dan: I, I believe he was, yeah, I believe he was, he was innocent. But

Sidey: Wow ... I

Dan: how

Sidey: you know, It's like Shawshank but with, with acting it,

Dan: it's all,

Sidey: it's all it's

Dan: it's all, you know, tough environments out, out there and you're never gonna be kind of the same. I don't know whether you know, he was, he was doing some bad shit, but he just didn't get...

Sidey: didn't get... He didn't

Dan: He didn't do that

Sidey: Yeah, you know? Yeah, he was in and aro- in and amongst it. Yeah, so breaking the mummy's code. What a f- what a Crash Bang Wall at what performance. Yeah. This was made for 2 million US dollars, and it took, what do you think?

Dan: you think? Oh, I think it must have taken more than, than two.

Sidey: You want it to take a lot.

Dan: I would say 20.

Sidey: No, it took 5.3- Oh, right ... according to

Dan: Okay, well still double the money, right?

Sidey: But you want it to take more because the the cast were given equity. They were all given... So one of the ways they rewarded people but also kept the budget low was to give them pay equity models so that they all got a share of how well- Right, right ... the film did. Yeah. So, I think that's pretty cool for, you know, some of these guys

Dan: of movie. And you saw right at the beginning where one of the guys came over into the the mess room and started speaking to Divine G.

Sidey: Yeah.

Dan: And he he goes, "Oh, you, you signed the book?" Yeah, yeah. That was actually the guy. That was

Sidey: Oh, that was him, was it? That's him. Right. Okay. Yeah,

Dan: So he just has a short cameo-

Sidey: him in there ...

Dan: to, to be in there. And yeah, the power of, of performance arts, I guess, again, with these extremely- We

Sidey: just need to give people,

Dan: people- ... dangerous criminals ...you

Sidey: know, a purpose or something in there so that it's not... You know, like we've mentioned before when we were talking about prisons, you know, giving these people something so that they, they have a purpose, they form a bond with other people. Just giving a bit of meaning and a bit of purpose is surely better than just-

Dan: Locking 'em up and- Locking 'em up

Sidey: them up and throwing away the key and all that sort of

Dan: and not trying

Sidey: to- Obviously there's l- you know, there's levels to it.

Dan: Well, it it was the director that I just thought, "What a hero." You know, th- this guy who goes into the prison. He's ... I think he'd been- Yeah, yeah ... there before himself. I

Sidey: think he done time. Yeah, he was probably reformed. But

Dan: course ... but

Sidey: he's, Yeah

Dan: you know, they've, they've all related in some way, but he's much further down the path and- Yeah he's kind of, you know, able to, to go and type up these things and work with these guys- Yeah ... and connect with them. And just have that totally non-judgmental attitude towards them and just... It's all about understanding, love, calm, ju-

Sidey: Brent his name was, wasn't it? Brent Brent Bure. Yeah. Legend. So I had not heard of this and I would not have seen it had it not been Nom's, but I'm very glad that he did. It was

Dan: that I did. It was good. It was a decent one, wasn't it? Yeah. A, a good pace. I think what, is it coming in at an hour and a half, two hours?

Sidey: It's one hour 45 minutes. It's an A24. We're distributed by A24. We've done quite a lot of their stuff. You can watch it on iPlayer. For me, it gets a strong recommend.

Dan: And, and for me too. Yeah a couple of decent prison movies this week. We had the mid-week of, "Hey, what do you want? What do you know? What do you say?" Angels with Dirty Faces, James Cagney, and and Humphrey Bogart. But this one in color,

Sidey: glorious Technicolor with- Made about, ... Coleman Domingo

Dan: 80 years later.

Sidey: He seems to be everywhere these days, Coleman Domingo, doesn't he? Yeah. Seen him in quite a few things.

Dan: had a, he's had a good run of it. Probably after so long of not being, you know, a hardworking actor who's not been famous and suddenly he's, he's famous overnight. Had

Sidey: a moment.

Dan: So

Sidey: that was a strong week. And I don't know 'cause it wasn't- It was a strong- ... gonna be your noms this week. It was, I think maybe Riggsby couldn't be here. So it's all up in the air, but we'll figure that all

Dan: were talking about a wolf week, but we'll see what comes.

Sidey: keep, that. Yeah, we'll see. But all that remains is to say Sidie signing out.

Dan: Dan's gone. Have a good week, y'all.