Prisons & Sing Sing

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Dan, it's prison week. Yeah, your norms. We don't have Riggs. That is our sentence. Yeah, we don't have Riggs, so no clever injury. Yeah, we're doing hard time without him. And we don't have Chris either, so no like sexy to hang out with. We can't even ask him to bend down in the showers to pick up the soap or anything. He's back on the islands today, tonight. Probably now. So he couldn't make it tonight.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Hopefully he's got the bottle of Danny Olomo that's a little bit more. Fucking amazing. He will be doing solitary if we don't get Danny Olmo. For regular listeners, they'll know that's the mythical bottle of wine that we we tasted and have been after ever since.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

So it's just us two, and we're going to talk about top five prisons. I kind of think we've done before, but even if we have, maybe something new will crop up. And then the movie Sing Sing. Yeah. Which I hadn't heard of before. Which was by Domino Coleman.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Yes. Domino Domino, Domino Yeah, that guy. That guy. You've seen him before. But have you been watching anything else this week other than the the homework? The necessary mandatory.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Yeah, the I finished off Spider Noir. Ah yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

You binge that quite quick, haven't you?

SPEAKER_03 1:25

Well, I watched some of it while I was away on that. So I downloaded it onto my iPad so I could watch it on the flights, but the flights weren't long enough to watch the whole series, so got back and I watched it on Saturday. I have a feeling that there was something else I started watching. I can't remember. I finished Backrooms. Silly really. I preferred the first half of the movie. Have you ever seen that? No. So there was a web series of it before it became a movie. And it was kind of like a sort of ex-Files level of creepiness, where it's just an endless sort of going to one room, there's another room, there's like weird furniture that's like halfway in the floor, halfway not.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Oh creepy.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

Yeah. And then then they made a movie out of it. And I don't want to be that person who says, I like the earlier stuff more, but I do like the earlier stuff more. This one, they they bring more into the sort of furniture side of it, and yeah. It's alright. It's got like the production time's amazing, just the way that these rooms just go on and on forever. And apparently you would you would definitely get lost if you were in there and it wasn't someone to like bring you back, you just wouldn't ever find your way out. It's amazing. So that was cool. But that was it, I think. What about yourself?

SPEAKER_02 2:38

I watched Death on the Nile. Oh, yeah. The Poirot, Kenneth Branagh, yeah. It's the third one, isn't it? Yeah, I I thought I'd seen it, so I'd not watched it, but then I was at a loss just going through different programmes and I thought, well, have I seen this? And after watching the first five minutes where probably just seen a version of it.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Yeah, I I'd learn yeah, exactly. Um saunders are in it, aren't they?

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Yes, yeah. Where I'd learnt the how why he wears such a striking mustache, the mustache backstory. I realised, no, indeed, I have not seen this. So I I sat and watched that. And I also I went into a bit of a YouTube hole and I found out where gold comes from. Do you know where gold comes from?

SPEAKER_01 3:25

As in the precious metal.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

No. Have a stab at it. Well, I don't know, but it's like any element just just comes from existing, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 3:37

It comes from space. Well yeah, it doesn't that's the same as anything.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

But I mean it's like the fact that it's not it's alien to Earth. Like meteors is meteors that have been.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

There is only enough according to Professor Brian Cox, who I'm gonna go and see live in October. Oh that in the Is he gonna hide D wing? Well yeah, I hope so. I wonder if he walks out to the game. It should come out for that, yes. Because he owns it, basically. There is only enough gold in the entire world to fill two swimming pools.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Two Olympic swimming pools, that's right. Yeah, yeah. That's that's as much gold that has ever been mined in the history of man. Yeah and you think it's so valuable, I guess. And it's okay, it's time eleven times denser than water, so that kind of swim pool will be extra packed, but s it's still a a crazy stat. And the fact that it comes from atoms being crushed together, and then they've when supernovas have exploded and things and it's found its way onto Earth, it just blew my mind because I always thought it came from gold mine, like it was some part of the earth crust, but actually it's not. It's yeah. So that was interesting. I uh yeah, I went into that kind of world, which was quite interesting, and I what else did I watch? I started to watch a movie that we might end up putting forward for a wolf eight, yeah, uh a wolf week, the wolf of Wolf Street. I I've seen it before, but there was that that particular scene where Margot Robbie comes into the party and and Donnie's reaction to that, uh, it just got me chuckling over the weekend, and I thought, did that really happen? I'm gonna go back and watch that. And uh yes it did. Yeah, very good.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

Cool, right. Shall we crack on and talk about prisons? Yeah, let's do let's do this hard time. Right, go on, Dan. You I guess well, let's set the rules out. We'll probably nominate two each and then we need one more. I think that's fair. Yeah, you set the ball rolling then.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

Well, I i it it's it's a rich it's a it's a rich field. There's a lot of crime out there and lots of prisons. Um one of the earlier films that I watched in my you know, when you're s really just starting to get into films and you're really thinking, oh, I've heard of this one. It was a Daniel Day Lewis one and with Pete Possalthwaite, and it's based on the true story of the bombings back in the sort of 70s, eighties, I think it was. And it was Irish Daniel Day Lewis, an Irishman who got coerced into confessing for a bombing that he didn't commit and got thrown into prison for it for years. He ended up doing 26 years, and it just made you me as as a young kind of man feel so angry about the injustice of it all, really. And he was he wasn't a model citizen, he did petty robbery. I think he he might have robbed a prostitute or something like that, but he he didn't do the the Guildford pub bombing in 1974, which killed several kind of people, but they they ended up getting them all in there, and I think they were called the yeah, the Maguire Seven, and this extended family, including Pete Posseldwaite from Brastoff and a few other kind of great movies, uh are seen as to be accessories to it. And eventually there's a lawyer who's working to to get the scene again and to get exonerated because it's un un unsure, Emma Thompson. And and then it was the questioning on behalf of the police as well, the four that were the kind of uh accused of it. Jerry Conlin was the the name of the guy, and I remember actually him being released when I was a kid. Right. And the story of it all being like, you know, it's weird when you get out after that.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

Oh you know, it well he's I think we were relieved to be out but mega bitter about him been in.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

I think his dad actually died while he was inside as well, and he got a bit of trouble in there. It's a great movie. He got uh and Daniel Day Lewis, you know, obviously just it's like Mel Street for me, I just can't. Oh really? No, I really like him. He did my left foot, he done loads of movies.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

Is that the one where he's a quadriplegical? Yeah, yeah. He would make it so method he would make people carry him around and say, fuck off all that shit.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

Fucking hell. But it it produced like the results, you know. And at one point I remember it sticks in my mind when there was actual gangsters or or the the villains, the IRA bombers that knew that he hadn't done it, yeah, but they were in prison and he was getting a tough time, like, you know, from other prisoners. And in the end, he he I don't know whether he sort he never really sought protection, he never wanted to get involved too much in with them and everything. But um he just went over to one of these guys who was owning the prison, like he was the the top daddy, and this Irishman just came over and he goes 22 Dock Street and he just gave the address of his family, like you know, of of this tough guy's family. And that's all he did. He just gave the address to him, and then he knew that any more trouble, his whole family were gonna be blown up like you know, by the so and and Jerry Conlin, who's who's innocent of all these kind of really bad crimes and everything, is just sat back and they go, Irish is alright, Irish is all right, you know, and then they just leave him alone again, so he never got any more trouble because all he had to do was just say, I know the address of your family where you live. Like that was that was the IRA guys. So he they they knew that he was doing time and he was an innocent man, like, and they couldn't do anything to save him. But that was, you know, uh a true story, injustice, the struggle for for truth and that kind of courage and resilience, because as you say, the the institutional failure, how'd you get through all that and come out?

SPEAKER_03 9:48

And they give him a few quid, of course they did, sort of, you know, to to get on with his life and everything, but you take twenty-six years of the best of your life and how about I guess like for if you asked like if you're doing pointless and you asked a hundred people, name a movie, a prison movie. Yeah. Shawshank's gonna name it's a big thing. Probably a hundred out of a hundred, yeah, or certainly high nineties. So it's Shawshank State Penitentiary, and we see Tim Robbins getting taken in there, and amongst other inmates, and the the people who are the the prisoners who have been in there a while all take bets on who's the first one that's gonna crack on the first night. New fish. Yeah, it's horrible. And that Red's Morgan Fearman's like you know, it would always gonna be Andy Duffering. And he doesn't crack, he never cracks. And he's a frame. He never he's he's tough. He's a he's fucking made of sterner stuff than that. And we see his life in prison and all the shit, all the uh the antics he gets up to and all the tunnelling that he also gets up to.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

And and yeah, I mean, well he's he's gang raped, isn't he? He's he's given a real hard. Um and I'd like to tell you that he fought him off and he but Well they're the sisters or something.

SPEAKER_03 11:05

Yeah, it it it didn't happen each time. And then he crawls through fifty foot of shit or something like that, to the to the sewer tunnels in the end, and then you see him with his arms aloft, you know, with the s the rain washing down on him, and then he's in Mexico or wherever it is with his boat. But there's all the things, you know, it's as harder time as you could pretty much do. He does some solitary in there for some of the shit he gets up to, playing the music or well at one point he's nearly thrown off the roof, isn't he, by the prisoners when you're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Do you trust your wife?

SPEAKER_03 11:36

And that guy, he's a real fucking asshole. Yeah. And the warden, of course, as well, but he kills himself, he takes the cowardly way out. Salvation lay within, yeah, because that's where he stashes the thing in the book, in the good book. It's a Stephen King one and then Frank Darabon who made that then followed that up with the Greenmark, which is also a prison movie and also fucking excellent.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Stephen King, he's just his mind is just like unbelievable because it's not just the horror films, it's it's these edgy you seat kind of thrillers and I think Shorshank was quite notable because it was a bit it did nothing at the box office.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

It just kind of it was probably too long for people at the cinema. It wasn't a Stephen King horror, we were like, what is this thing? And then as soon as it went on, people watched it home and people were like fucking lapped it up and it was a huge, huge hit at home.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Well, just like top of most IMDB charts for forever.

SPEAKER_03 12:26

It's got that real good feel-good vibe to it where there's you know two and a half hours of fucking misery, really. But he you know he wins in the end, so that's that's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

The bird man of Alcaraz, even Alcaraz, I think he plays for. You've been to Alcatraz? I've not no, I've not been to Alcat Alcatraz. I think I've looked at it as a kid across the You've been to San Fran. Yeah, been to San Fran.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

So there was some bullshit chat that Trumps lot wants to fucking get it going again. Like Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

But th this was the old Burt Lancaster one, and I watched this again back when it first came out in 1912. No. But it was set in 1912, so he had this violent kind of a notorious prisoner, and he went to Leavenworth prison convicted for murdering a man, and a guard cancels a visit of his mother due to a violation or due to to something he's done wrong. So he does what any angry prison prisoner gets when he can't see his mum, he stabs him and kills him, and he's he's sentenced to be executed then. But his mum writes to the president who commutes it to a life imprisonment, but the warden's like, Well, okay, you might be alive, but I'm gonna make it the worst kind of of your life, and he makes it solitary for him then, so he gives him solitary for the rest of his life. And one day he finds a little sparrow that's falling from in the nest, and he raises the bird until it's strong enough to kind of fly again, and he becomes an expert in birds and and caring for them and everything, and in in the end he he's kind of transferred to Alcatraz, and he's got to leave his his birds behind. But Birdman of Alcatraz.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

I remember the Clinton Eastwood one, Escape from Alcatraz. Yeah. There was that guy in the in the film, the one that really sticks with me is he was it wasn't the birdman of Alcatraz, but it's another guy who was painting, and something goes awry for him, so he just gets a big fucking knife and chops off his own fingers. Do you remember that scene? It's fucking awful. And then when they the other one was when they go to check everyone at night and Clint's got this almost like comedian like fucking dummy that he's made about being macheted or dummy. Oh yeah. And then he's just screwing out through the corner. And supposedly the waters are dead, dead treacherous around there, so they never they never found him, never heard from him again, presumed dead, but who knows? Who knows? Never seen a body. No, exactly. So we don't know. It also cropped up, and I wish Pete was here because he's really good at doing the the voice of Sean Connery from The Rock. Uh uh. Walk. Womack. Yeah. Nick Cage and Sean Connery in uh who's uh oh my god, who directed it? It's Riggs fucking hates him. Bay. Michael Bay, yeah. But I think he actually likes that one. Yeah. And we reviewed it for the pod, so you can check that out. So Alcatraz that's always gonna be in the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

Yeah, for prisons. Uh Did you ever see the film Brew Baker? No. Um so this was the the film with Robert Redford, and he goes into prison disguised as an inmate, but actually he's the new warden. Oh right. And he just wants to see what it's like. He sees firsthand all the corruption and how badly they deal with him, the scams, and um and when I remember the the scene where he's taken out of prison out of being in a dark room, like they've stuck him in a dark room for weeks or days, and then it's the brightest part of the day, and they're bringing him out and he's he can't you know he can't even look, his eyes are adjusted, they're just stinging and everything. And later when he's wardened, because he reveals himself and they're like, Oh fuck, like you know, this is this is bad. They know how bad they treated him, they know, you know, how he gives sunglasses to the prisoners that are coming out of that kind of block, just as he's a he's a bit more compassionate and he starts making, you know, reforms and things like that. But yeah, he he was apparently based on the real life efforts of of a prison warden who must try to do it a different way.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

See, there was a thing in the news in the last fortnight or so about do you remember that Andras Brevik, the one in Norway, who killed about 90 or people? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were talking about his prison conditions and he's kept in a he's solitary. But it's effectively almost like an apartment. So it's not treat him like as miserably it's a sweet. And it's not obviously just like specialised for him, but they were saying there's just no point, you're not you're never gonna achieve anything, you know. The amount of re-offending that people do, if you just put into like miserable conditions with other miserable miserable people, you know, what chance of not that obviously not that Brevitt's gonna be rehabilitated, he'll never be out, but other people, you know, you just I don't know what the actual statistics are for the re-offending stuff, but if you just carry on doing what you're doing all the time with this shit, with this fucking miserable It doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Great Britain right now, we've got it it's all in the news, isn't it? Like they're they're letting out prisoners, anybody who's not guilty of violent crime, and even to the point of manslaughter, where they're letting out the the the two of the guys that were involved in the murder of or the manslaughter of a police officer and he got caught in the car door and they just drove away and he ended up dying, this this young police officer, and they weren't much older than him, really, you know, all in their early twenties or something, but they're letting net hit them out after half their sentence or whatever, and it's they're up in arms, but the prison system is just completely at breaking point, apparently. I mean, I think there's you know, that's that's wrong in my eyes that they'd they'd let these two guys out that didn't look very didn't look very kind of sorry for what they'd done anyway.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

How about a TV one from a TV series that's completely preposterous in the best possible way? Prison Break, did you ever watch that when it was on? Um So the the elder brother is in prison and the younger brother has himself incarcerated, somehow knowing that he'll go to the same prison. To the same prison, yeah, and then whips off his shirt and he has the prison blueprints tattooed onto himself so that they can titular prison break. Prison break. And we get to meet all the really cool people in prison, like teabag and Peter Stormar's in there. I can't remember his character. I think he was the maybe the sort of like ringleader-y type dude. He was a big gangster or something like that. And I remember really enjoying season one, and then something like that, where it's so preposterous, it should I'm with Chris on these ones. This should have a short shelf life. Don't drag it out. I think this had maybe five, six seasons, five, I think. Right. And it needed of like being in prison, being out of prison on the run, back into prison. Like, this is fucking ridiculous. So the stupidness is fun up until a point, and then you know, no, I'm out. Scum.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

I never saw this. You never saw scum, too. Ray Winston, a young Ray Winston, it's a it's the Borstel one. Yeah, it's Borstal. It's it's a real jar in film, you know, it's it's a real there's not there's not many laughs in this. I'm the governor now, he gets two um four balls in a sock and starts swinging that around. And the the prison warden and guards are going, right, okay, you're in charge now, because he knows they need a a a daddy. I'm the daddy now, like to keep everybody in line. And Ray Winston goes in there and he's taking no shit off no one. You know, he's but it's it's really kind of tough to watch and it's yeah, uncompromising, as I would say. Midnight Express was another prison one that I watched when I was a kid about Billy Hayes, he's an American college student caught smuggling drugs out of Turkey and thrown into prison, and it's yeah, it's it's pretty pretty bad. I think at one point, I'm not sure if I'm getting confused here, with another movie, but I think at one point they he's got some kind of contraband and they're looking for it. Uh what he's done is melted it around he's melted the candle around it, so he's got all the wax and they c they're looking everywhere, but in fact he's he's hide hid the contraband yeah, in the in the in this candle wax, but that was, you know, like all any of these Thai Malaysian prison stories there.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

Yeah, the place to be. We did the Thai one for the pod, me, the Scouse guy who got done for drugs. Ah yes, fairly great. Um the kickboxing kind of one. Yeah. Yeah, that was pretty miserable. There is a couple of fictional ones I wanted to chuck in there. One is the pit. Do you remember that where that might be from? From the third of the Dark Knight ones, the Batman, Christian Bell ones, the third one is where Bane was from and where m Batman ends up when after he breaks his back and is chucked down and he has to rise up. Yeah, he's literally he rises. The Dark Knight rises too. You've got to jump over the There's the last bit of leap of faith bit that you have to take and they're chanting.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

It's just like, yeah, make it or or jump it.

SPEAKER_03 22:10

Make it or fake it or whatever. So he goes up through there. And the other one's Asgaban from the Harry Potter series. First of all, we get his godfather, Sirius Black, escapes out of there, and later on we see the Death Eaters break out, Bellatrix and whatnot from it's this mad, it almost looks like a letter M, but it's this crazy prison out in the sea, where all the naughty wizards get sent. So yeah, a couple of fictional ones, and then another one that we've seen a million times, Stalogluft 3. Right. That's the great escape. Say no more about that one, it's been done to death. After that, I'm just gonna no, I've got a couple music ones then on.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Okay, well, there's there's a music one that makes me think of of San Quentin. Yeah, Folsom Prison Blues. That that would be one of them. My nom would have to be like Devil's Islands in Papillon. I know it would be all right. Yeah, it it's and you've got Steve McQueen and Dustman Hoffman set out there, and after a long kind of incarceration there, Henri Cherie played by Steve McQueen has still never given up hope of being free, and he's watched the waves and he watched the sets come in, and he goes, The seventh one takes you out, and he gets his bag of coconuts, lobs them out onto the sea, and and then does this kind of hundred foot drop into the sea on the waves and and makes it out, and we know he makes it out because it was a true story, and he ended up write another story, Banco after Papillon, but a h a hell of a story that and they did remake it, and it wasn't too bad. Like the Charlie Hunnam one. Yeah. It wasn't too bad. It it made me hard. Like well, it made me think I didn't want to see it, to be honest. You know, it was like leave that alone. You you don't need to to go back to that, but I think because I played it down in my mind, it it actually came out okay. So Papier and AN Other got one more for us? Well, I'll let you you add one and then my first well, some music ones.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

I mean we mentioned Johnny Cash there, he famously did Folsom Prison Blues. Was that the live album one? In prison, for the Folsom Prison, obviously. San Quentin and Elvis, of course, the jailhouse rock. I fought the law by the clash. And John Lennon, Attica State, which references the Attica prison riots. But my first nom, again back to TV, it's one of those I'm gonna say British classics where it doesn't go on forever. There is not millions and millions of episodes, but they're all solid goals. The setting is HMP Slade Prison. Ah, yes. You get the voiceover at the start where he's being sentenced and sent off to that is of course Ronnie Barker playing Fletcher in Porridge. His cellmate is Lenny Godburg, played by Richard Beckinsale, Kate's dad, and it actually is this time. And it's brilliant, you've got all the other great characters of Mr. McKay and Mr. Barraclough, the two screws, if you like, one's yeah dead soft and one's absolutely fucking Baraclough. Yeah. Yeah. Mackay's fucking tough as all things. And then you kind of get to see how the rest of the prison system works. You've got the guy, the inmate who fucking runs the show, is living a pretty cushy life, and then how everything else works. And through it all, you've got Fletcher just kind of like trying to stay out of trouble. Wise cracking. I remember this very fondly.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

Yeah, this I I I love Porridge and yeah, obviously they did the films, they did the series.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

That was going straight then after it, wasn't it? Fletcher out of Slade.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:59

I don't know if that was quite so good.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

No, no, I think that the series was just an absolute classic. One I watched when I was a kid, and it was one of those films that that really brought forth the the horrors of the Holocaust, actually. It was Escape from Sobador. I don't know if you've ever seen this film. I've probably not seen it. Got out of these death camps and everything. But you saw what they were doing, you saw the like the tough go. You know, it was just on. I remember my mum and dad watching it, and we were only kind of young and watching it as well, and I think they just wanted us to they didn't say, you know, don't watch this. They weren't forcing us to watch it or anything, but they weren't saying no don't because I think they realized, you know, this is it was quite true and, you know, historically factual to to what had happened in the film. But yeah, you you had these people who obviously the the death camp at Trablinkard and Escape and a similar cap in Sobador, he would never do the same thing. They said they would they would never get there, but they knew that they were only on borrowed time, so they kind of made a plan and and overran him and and did it all. And you know, seeing them just to go, fucking I mean, we're we're we're gonna rise up and we're dead anyway, so we'll try and do something. Um it was and walking out the front door, saying we're gonna walk out straight out the fucking front door. That's how we're gonna do it. Uh you know, we ain't tunneling out or shit like that. Um and yeah, it was about 300, I think, escaped. So it was it was it was a tough watch, and is what another one of those films that just sticks with you when you're when you're young to to have seen it. But yeah, I I could do rewatching it again, but it was in my mind for this one.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

My other norm is gonna be well, the prison that features in it is Glaze Correctional Institution in Florida, and uh hero of the movie is a bank robber who gets caught and sent there, and while he's in there, learns about another big score that he might be able to do when he gets out. But he's not gonna sit in prison and rot, so they break out, and it's George Clooney, and they dig a tunnel under the there's a there's a gang of them, and they dig a tunnel under the fence and they've got the old black and white stripes on the floor. Yeah, Jennifer Jennifer Lopez uh just happens to be in the in the sort of parking lot area where they appear and he grabs her and chucks her. He ends up in the boot of the car with her while the other guy drives off. And it's I really like this film, it's really good. It's Steven Soderbergh movie, and it's Elmore Leonard's adaptation, and the film is great, and Clooney's fucking brilliant in it. And Jennifer Lopez is fucking really good in it. And I always think, why don't you just stick to making like really good, really cool films because she can act a bit, she's pretty good. And I think her musical career and her fucking whole ego went completely like unchecked, and she seems to me to be a total dick, and yet you could have you know you could turn out decent stuff, you could have made decent, you know. So I feel bad choices by good hotness as good as Clooney's sensationally hot in this as well. It's got Steve Zahn and the other fellow that I can't remember think of his name as Louise something or other. It's also got Catherine Keener in who I always really had the hearts for, and she's playing a magician's assistant in this. Yeah, it's so many good-looking people in it, but the film is also cool as fuck, so it's a strong recommend for out of sight. So my serious Porridge and Out of Sight, you've got Papillon and the escapek from Sobador. And we need AN Other from Out There. Yeah. Right, this movie, and you can watch this on iPlayer, because that's where I watched it, is Sing Sing.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Yeah, it's 2023. Pretty new in the world of films, because we're only in 2026 now.

SPEAKER_03 30:05

Yeah, and that name again you couldn't get the start is Coleman Domingo.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Yeah, he was one of the three tenors, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_03 30:14

Yeah, well, the film starts and he's on stage and he's perform he's he is performing. He is performing. And it's not immediately obvious that they're in prison at this point. He's it's like all sort of lit blue.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

Lit from behind on stage and he's doing his performance.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

The audience is there. And he seems like he's pretty good. Yeah. But it it does turn out to be and this is a this is a true story, right? Yeah. This is adapted from documentary. Rehabilitation through the arts at Sing Sing.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

Yeah. Maximum Security Prison. And it's as as you say, it it for the first few minutes you think they could be on Broadway, they could be at a uh you know, a a decent theatre somewhere, but in fact soon they're being asked to do all the things that prisoners to uh stand to attention, you know, make sure this is you know you've got your the space in between people and I think I'm right in saying that quite a few people in the cast are actual members of formerly incarcerated men.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

Yeah, who are in the this sort of troops uh alumni. Yeah. And so what it is, it's an all-male kind of drama thing where there's the guy he's not a prisoner though, is he? The other guy is he a volunteer? The The director dude. The the director dude, I think, is somebody who comes into helping. He's running this this and what it is is uh, you know, a way to get these guys engaged and work together and do all this stuff. A little bit like they tried to do in Angels with Dirty Faces with the with the lads getting involved in team sport and trying to learn the rules around. So this is trying to get them engaged in something rather than just you know what prison could be trying to do something positive. And so you get all these, and they're kind of a ragtag bunch of so different. I mean, there's one guy who's got tattoos like all over his head and all down his face. And these guys are in there for, you know, either drug dealing or violent crime or whatever it is. So there's a real you know different. Murder.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Yeah, whate whatever whatever it is.

SPEAKER_03 32:17

Uh but Coleman Domingo, he is the John Divine G. Whitfield, and he is in there for a crime he didn't commit.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Yeah. And he he's got a a real sense of purpose in this. He's a true believer in this acting problem. Yeah, he he loves it. This is he's good at it as well, and he's he's writing stories himself. It's obvious that this group of men have been doing this for a little while together, they're quite comfortable within their scene and and they're encouraging of each other as well. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

It's a real good bonding experience for them all. They they're like a brotherhood, if you like. There's there's him and he's particularly close. I think it's his his cell neighbour, Mike Mike. Yeah. And they chat to each other through the through the walls. There's they've got little windowy things, you know, openings on the door where they're chat at each other. They're next to each other and they do make it.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

Mike Mike's kind of got a shaven head with a little like a Buddhist tail at the back or something, he's got the he he looks like a you know, a monk or something, Buddhist monk.

SPEAKER_03 33:17

He's he's And you think if Divine G didn't have this, he would be a mess, I think.

SPEAKER_02 33:22

Yeah, I mean he's a good guy, isn't he?

SPEAKER_03 33:24

But he's Well, he's definitely got this feeling of injustice. He's saying he's not he's didn't do it. So at least this gives him a purpose. But if he could do Shakespeare in every performance, you know, he certainly would. He's he's a a drama.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

He's a proper thespian and he's he loves walking the boards, and and although he doesn't outwardly say it, he likes the attention the other guys give him for being good and and he helps them. He he kind of goes, let me and he also with a director, he he knows that he's got some kind of influence and he's he can interpret what the director wants and he's definitely taken on a sort of leadership role because obviously the director's not their day-to-day.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

He'll come in for their sessions and he'll help them out.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

But And he's the the the star playwright and performer and he's he's got depth and talent and and he also wants to prove his his innocence and get his freedom and he he's got a couple other little you know, he he's he's an educated man, so he tries to get his you know other people either involved in this programme but also maybe helping them with their appeals and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

Yeah. But they they're gonna need maybe new recruits. There's a new production. They're gonna they've just finished their last we've just seen it, we've seen it at the very start of the film, but now it's on to the next thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

And we know probably not this early on, but around this, it they happen about every six months, these productions. A couple of years.

SPEAKER_03 34:49

So they they're kind of scoping out this guy in the yard, he's called Clarence d another divine, and I think this is weird. They one's Divine G and one's Divine I Macklin. Yeah, and they see him shake down this guy. White guy. Yeah, what's this fucking shit? Where's my fucking money? Get me my money. He's obviously given an axe.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Yeah, he's giving him something to hold, and then when he's giving it back, he said, That's not what I gave you. You know, where's my real shit? Where's my real you're gonna hold me? You owe me five hundred dollars now. I don't give a fuck how you get it, get me five hundred dollars, and this guy's just like, oh fuck, like I'm in trouble here.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

Yeah, so so they they caught him. Um and he doesn't strike you as the sort of person who would be up for joining an acting troop.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

No, but he has put his name forward for it.

SPEAKER_03 35:40

He's up for it, yeah. Sort of but he's conflicted, I think, because if he's if his homies, you know, in inverted commas saw him, yeah, he would that would not be that would not go down well. So he's he's sort of up for it, but also he's not all in just yet. So they they kind of they do that, it's almost like a meeting, like an aim at whether you will get a chance to speak, but then this is where they they sort of brainstorm ideas for the next production, and it's actually a Divine Eye who says, Well fuck it, let's just do a comedy, you know.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

Well they were gonna at one point do Divine G's written, he's he's written a uh a play and he's kind of key, you know, oh no, no, don't do it. Oh we're gonna tell us, tell us, and he goes, Oh, actually, that sounds okay, yeah, okay. And he he's explaining how it's going, and then as they're about to go on with that, Divine Eye goes, just no res you know, respect for everyone, but I think something else completely different in this comedy, and it ends up being like, Well, he says life in here is hard enough, you know.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

Yeah, let's give everyone a laugh, and they're a bit like, Yeah, well, he's a divine G is like I don't know, like I just rather do like something serious. And they put it to vote and and they just they just sort of brainstorm some ideas, and this is the this is the performance that they actually did do in real life, and it's called It's it's just it's like an Egyptian. It's breaking it's the it's called Breaking the Mummy's Code. Yeah. And the ideas that they shout out, the the ideas that they shout, and it's one of these things where there's no wrong ideas. It's gonna be a show involving time travel, ancient Egypt, ancient Egypt, pirates, cowboys, Freddie Krueger and Hamlet. Yeah. And so the director guy has the weekend, I think, after this to go and write it.

SPEAKER_02 37:23

Um which he does, he comes back to like 140 pages, yeah, and he goes, Well, you know what, he's just started writing itself after a while, and you know, it's it's all there. And they they cla so he's not pleased, Divine G.

SPEAKER_03 37:36

No, he's raging because he wants to do it, he wanted to show his act his acting chops. Yeah. And he's annoyed that they're doing a comedy. He's even more annoyed when you then start seeing people trying out that Divine I, who would suggest doing comedy, is only auditioning for the role of Hamlet, the one serious part in it. So they sort of flash over that.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

And he does say to him, Well, why why are you you know, you want a comedy, why are you doing going for the one serious part? And he goes, Comedy's hard, man. It's like, yeah, that's why I didn't fucking want to do it. But uh they all kind of engage in the acting exercises led by the director.

SPEAKER_03 38:15

Yeah, I thought this was quite good because you see these sort of tough guys having to do all these zombies describe of like silly, they have to sort of be a bit daft, if you like, and do all these exercises where you know they're pretending to be this, that, and the other, which certainly for divine eye wouldn't come naturally to him. And he doesn't get involved in it. He's not there, is he? They sometimes just say that they show you the shot of his chair and it's empty, he hasn't turned up. He hasn't turned up and he he's he's not really able to throw himself into it just yet.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

Tap into the emotions. But uh Divine G kind of wants to help and he he wants the it to be a success, even though it wasn't the the bit that he did, he's gonna be a gladiator in it, and he just gets on board and goes, Right, fuck it, I'll I'll jump on board with whatever anybody else is doing. I'm not gonna be like this is about me, and and he he he goes forward with the piece. And running parallel to this is the fact that he's got a uh a hearing coming up like clemency hearing, yeah. And he's fairly confident because he's got a fate recording.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

Someone else has confessed to the the killing that he's in for and they actually it's fucking horrible actually, they they throw his acting, his interest in acting back at him to say, Well, how how can we believe that you're genuine then?

SPEAKER_02 39:39

And you're like, he just can't he just can't even see it, he goes, Yeah well you think I'm no no, I am I am really sincere to you now as he's talking to this three person. That's pretty horrible. Um But they want to see how how he reacts, I guess, you know, and the fact that the the guy who's done the confession has died, they can't further interview or verify just means that that confession becomes fuck all to them. And ego he knows b through helping Divine I with his appeal, and we know that if it comes as the the reply comes back as thick as a book, you're there, you're fucked, you you're gonna be there for another f few years, if it comes back as thin as like a piece of paper, you're out, yeah, you know, you you're fine. And and both these guys are going through their appeals at the same time, and as he's helping him with the acting, he's also helping him with the appeals. And as he comes back, Divine G, the acting superhero comes back and he gets this thick book of a reply, he knows that he's fucked.

SPEAKER_03 40:54

He sort of hits rock bottom a little bit because there's a sudden death of Mike Mike. He has a brain aneurysm.

SPEAKER_02 41:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:01

So Mike, you feel feel for him because Mike Mike's gone who then they were they were super tight. They were next door cellmates and also in the in the troop, and they were anything to discuss, you know, it was always them channel through. So he's gone, he's had his clemency hearing rejected. He has a real fucking ding-dong with Divine Eye that he pulls him to one side in a room, and he and Divine Eye's like, don't ever fucking like bring me, you know, into a room where he has to threaten me, you know. And and the problem with Divine Eye is he's not able to be vulnerable or do all this stuff because he's still got a kind of street mentality. He's sort of thinking, Well, what would my fucking mates think if they saw me doing this? So he's not all in. But he does come round in the end, and Divine Eye, like you say, is helping him with his own hearing. And they really they they have a few they bump heads quite a bit there when they first meet each other, but they do develop a real bond. And Mike Mike passing away just reinforces that what they're doing here is not just putting on a performance, it's making connections, making bonds with your you know, your inmates, your fellow inmates, and making life in there just more bearable.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

And you see these other guys in there who are hard men who have done bad things and they just don't want one guy goes that big guy, he goes, I used to be like the lock man or whatever it was. I don't know if you know what that meant, but you you got it to feel like he was the guy who He certainly wasn't protesting his innocence. No, he was he said, you know, I've seen people getting their their throats slit right in front of me and probably did it himself and he said, I just don't want to go back to that, you know. This is what we're this is what we're trying to tap into here. And it's yeah, but they have their ups and downs and and I say a little bit later on we understand that these actors actually are a lot of them are prison.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

They're legit, yeah, yeah, they're from the they're from the thing. So what happens what whether like the real sort of drive of the plot is that Divine Eyes parole is denied, Divine No, sorry, Divine G is is rejected, and Divine Eyes is approved, and it ends up with the combination of that and Mike Mike that Divine G just has a total meltdown. Yeah, so just like kicks the whole thing into touch.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

He's lost hope that any of it's gonna make a difference, and he calls it out for what he has defended in the past to other people. Look, this is shit, what we do in these costumes, this thing, this doesn't mean nothing, it's not gonna help. But they do understand that everybody's got their own issues and their own troubles, and they then let him back into the troop before opening night. Yeah. And they go back and everybody reconciles. He apologises and everyone assures him, you know, you're welcome again. Because they've all had their moments, they all know what it's like.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

First of all well, they do the production, of course, but then Divine Eye he gets his date and he's released. And it's almost sort of bittersweet for him because he's changed because of all this. And yet he's having to go back out into the world where he came from. Yeah. And yet And we know that his son is in prison now. It's going to be difficult for him to go back out because he's not the same. He can't exist in the same way as he he did, you know, pre-being in prison. And we go back and it's a couple of years later that Divine G is granted his power.

SPEAKER_02 44:47

I think it's seven years up. Yeah, which they just they they show like maybe they don't show that quite clearly afterwards, but doing a bit of research afterwards, it it was and you just see that they do these shows and they just do this little montage of all these different shows and everything that comes through, and then eventually that thin kind of piece of paper comes through and his his appeal is is recognised and he he leaves the prison, walks out and he walks. Looking down and he walks down the around the s like skirts the the fence line and there's nobody there just right outside. But as he as he's still kind of wandering around the fence line of the prison and just looking into it and sucking it in and breathing it in, there's there's divine small sob and he just gives him a big hug and you just like fuck fuck, you know. That's he knows what it's been like, you know. He he knows better than anyone and he's there waiting for him.

SPEAKER_03 45:48

Yeah, so he must have done a fair old stretch then. Yeah. And is that legit? He didn't do it. We we h we do we know that for sure?

SPEAKER_02 45:59

I I believe he was yeah, I believe he was he was innocent, but I don't know how, you know, it's like Shawshanger was yeah. It's all uh it's all, you know, tough environments out there and you're never gonna be kind of the same. I don't know whether, you know, he was he was doing some bad shit but he just didn't get he didn't do that bad shit.

SPEAKER_03 46:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so breaking the mummy's code, what a p what a uh crash band wallet, what a performance. Yeah. This was made for two million US dollars and it took what do you think? T I think it must have taken more than than two. You wanted to take a lot. I would say twenty. No, it took five point three according to double the money, right? But you wanted to take more because the the cast were given equity. They were all given so the one of the ways they rewarded people but also kept the budget low was to give them pay equity models so that they all got a share of how well the film did. So I think that's pretty cool for you know some of these guys.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

And you saw right at the beginning where one of the guys came over into the the mess room and started speaking to Divine G. Yeah. And he I goes, Oh, you you signed the book?

unknown 47:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

That was actually the guy. That was the short cameo to to be in there.

SPEAKER_03 47:32

And Yeah, the power of of performance arts, I guess, again with these extremely We just need to give people you know, a purpose or something in there so that it's not you know I'd like we've mentioned before when we were talking about prisons, you know. Giving these people something so that they they have a purpose, they form a bond with other people, just giving a bit of meaning and a bit of purpose is surely better than just locking them up and throwing away the key and all that sort of shit. Obviously there's l you know, there's levels to it.

SPEAKER_02 48:06

Well, it it was the director that I just thought, what a hero. You know, the this guy who goes into the prison, he's I think he's been there before himself. I think he's gonna be a very good thing. Yeah, he was that he he's um you know, they've they've all related in some way, but he's much further down the path and he's kind of you know able to to go and type up these things and work with these guys and connect with them and just have that totally non-judgmental attitude towards them and just it's all about understanding, love, calm.

SPEAKER_03 48:43

Brent his name wasn't it? Brent Buell Legend. So I had not heard of this and I would not have seen it had it not been NOMS, but I'm very glad they did. It was good.

SPEAKER_02 48:56

It was a decent one, wasn't it? Yeah. A good pace, I think. What is it coming in an hour and a half, two hours?

SPEAKER_03 49:01

Yeah, it's one hour forty-five minutes. It's an A24, we're distributed by A24. We've done quite a lot of their stuff. You can watch on iPlayer. For me, I guess a strong recommend.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

And and for me too. Yeah, a couple of decent prison movies this week. We had the midweek of Hey, what do you want, what do you know, what do you say, Angels with Dirty Faces, James Cagney and and Humphrey Bogart, but this one in colour round about Coleman Domingo. Eighty years later.

SPEAKER_03 49:38

It seems to be everywhere these days, Colin Domingo, doesn't he? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

He's had a he's had a good run of it. Probably after so long of not being, you know, a hard working actor who's not been famous and suddenly he's he's famous overnight.

SPEAKER_03 49:53

So that it was a strong week. It wasn't strong week.

SPEAKER_02 50:04

We were talking about a wolf week, but we'll see what comes. We'll keep that.

SPEAKER_03 50:07

Yeah, we'll see. But all that remains is to say tidy signing out.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

Dad's gone. Have a good week. Y'all, I think.