Midweek Mention... Angels With Dirty Faces

SPEAKER_01 0:12

What do you say? What do you know?

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Yeah. This is a movie you've mentioned a few times in top fives and whatnot down the years. Yeah. Angels with Dirty Faces, see? Angels with Dirty Faces. Jimmy Cagney, see? Yeah, Jimmy Cagney, it's got Bogey in there as well as the main guy. O'Brien. Yeah. I'm trying to think of another O'Brien, the one from Star Trek Next Gen. His great, great, great grandma. And I don't know if I'd recognise it, but Amy Ann Sheridan. Yeah. She's a babe. She is a babe. She's a terrible babe. Yeah. We start in the but this is old Vice and Oldie, right? 938. 938. Were you at the premiere old gags for it? It's directed by a guy called Michael Curtis with Zed, who then did Casablanca with Bogey as well. Yeah. So they must have struck up a bit of a thing. So yeah, it's an it's an oldie and they talk old timey. We get a sort of shot of the the town where they live, don't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:10

But it it it pans down into what is a a typical bustling street, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

I was trying to work out from the film where when it was set.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Chicago, I think it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

So is this during it's during Prohibition, isn't it? Yeah. And the depression and all that sort of stuff. Because we see the kids we start off by seeing Rocky Sullivan and his mate, Jerry, they're on a kind of fire escape sort of balcony, and there's three girls walking towards him, aren't they? That's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

And they they're giving him some chat and then they they Don't look up, don't look up and he he says, Keep going along, pigles it.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

And she says, he pulls her hat down over her head.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

How dare you speak to me like that? And yeah, he pulls her hat.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

They're all scruffy. I think he's got just a length of rope to like a belt to keep his trousers up and stuff. So you could tell that there's this like pretty impoverished. Wrong side of the track kind of kids and up to no good. They're getting into high jinx, but then they they go down to the the rail yard, don't they? And they this is where all the all the freight that comes in and they're peering through cracks in different containers, and they find one that they can get into and it's just got fountain pens, I think.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yeah, it's got loads of something they can nick, and they and he's he said, Oh, it's a pity they're not full of coal, because you know, you can nick coal to keep you warm. And he's saying, Well, you can take that and you can sell that, see, and you can do it, see?

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Don't be a sucker, see. Rocky's certain is his name's William Sullivan, but he's n his they name him Rocky, and he's he's definitely the sort of the ringleader of the the two. But it's not like Grand Larsnik yet, but they they basically but they're able to, I think, break the lock or just very easy, very easily get into the cart. And they're in there and they rumbles. Um almost immediately there's a guard, just like a security guard just drapes around and he hears the commotion and he looks in and starts blowing his whistle to attract the local gendarmerie. And they say, Right, you know, we're they're they are literally like stuck in there. So the only thing they can do is make a break for it. So they bolt out of there as quick as they can, kind of push everyone over and leg it as quick as they can. And as they hens are falling out there, yeah, yeah, they drop all their stolen goods.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

But as Jerry gets they get around the corner, Jerry gets to this sort of small kind of well he falls, yeah, he falls on the train tracks like he cuts his his face, and we see that scar then through the film as he grows up. Rocky helps him up and picks him up and they run off, and another and the train just goes past him. You think, oh, if it's a long train, they're getting away, but it's not a long train, it's just a short one. And they manage to catch him up.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

They vault over a fence in small. Jerry does. Jerry gets there first and he gets over, and as Rocky's trying to get over, the police catch up with him and they they take him in. And then we get like a real quick montage of like it's really quick of his sort of charge she petty larceny straight into grand larceny.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Well, I think he goes petty larcen larceny, and then he gets done for assault inside. Yeah. And so he gets another he gets two years for the petty lacing. He gets another three or four for that, and it in the end, it's it's been a long stretch. He's done.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

But he's the first one because he's a he's a teenager. So the first one he goes to reform school, doesn't he? And it doesn't do anything for him. So he ends up doing well, three three stretches that we know about, and he's just become a complete gangster. He's just like he's done. Is it now that he's done he's d there's something that that's gone on that he's owed a hundred grand for.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Well, there's a there's a little of this mon montage, and actually we see that he he gets off with a couple of Yeah, bribed juries, I think. Bribe juries, and he's got off with a couple of big scores, and one of them was manslaughter. Rocky goes for the.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

We see them blow up a we blow up a building, they try some bombs out of a coverage.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

We also see like show girls and champagne and and betting and everything, and he's had a bit of this, yeah. And then it goes to him doing another stretch, and he's sat opposite then Humphrey Bogart and Frasier, his lawyer, and he's saying, Look, we should, you know, share this, and he goes, No, no, it doesn't take two of his Rocky. You do the stretch, I'll keep the hundred grand safe and we'll be proud of it all.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

When you get out, you'll be looked after.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Oh, I I'll I'll do that. And so then we come back three years later.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Yeah. He's come comes back to town. Is it straight away where he's looking for a a place to stay? Yeah, he's going back to the old neighbourhood. And he doesn't realise it, but when he goes into this these digs, there's some young lad there, and he says, Oh, the woman across there will show you up to the room, you know, show you where you can stay. And it's the pigtails from earlier, but he doesn't quite twig straight away. Well, she's grown into this beautiful babe, and she kind of knows who he is. And the place where he's staying, it's a total dump. I mean, it's absolutely mingling.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Well, that's it, it's just rooms, isn't it? He go he goes up there in the as she shows him the room, she pulls down the hat, slaps him in the face, and says, 'I've been waiting fifteen years to do that.' And he sits down on the bed, which kind of collapses.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Yeah, she sort of storms up and he has a little chuckle about it. No hard feelings.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

And he's yeah, he's like a cheeky chappy gangster, and he starts looking around the old town and the old his old haunt where he grew up on Dock Street, and there's another load of young kids there, isn't there? They're the dead end kids, I think they're they're called.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

And right, I've got all their names because they're fucking Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

So there's about six or seven of them. And they're all what he used to be, him and Jerry. You know, they're in that same kind of hideout that he used to hide out with Jerry, and they're up to no good. They're you know, stealing fruit and veg and chocolates from vendors. He they're they're just winding up the police, throwing tomatoes and things and pretending everything's all innocent and turning their heads.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Soapy, swing, bim, pasty, crab, and hunky are the dead end pieces. Yeah. Um I forget which one is the sort of de facto ringleader of them, but he he does have a little bit because when she says oh, it's five bucks for the room or something like that, he just pulls out an enormous fucking wall of cash. She doesn't actually clock it, she doesn't see it really. No. And he's just like, There you go. But they they nick some money off him, don't they?

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Well that yeah, they nick his wallet, they see him as a mark, and they come up to him and they bit a jostlin just outside his house, yeah. And he kind of just laughs to himself and he goes clearly. He goes down to where he knows they are, and this hideout where it's an old boiler room or something. Yeah, and as they're dividing up the money, he kind of pretends to get a gun in his pocket, yeah. And he's he's threatening them and frightening them and saying you can't do that. Please, mister, don't, don't. And in the end, he he just ends up giving them a few tips on how not to get caught next time and tells them, Yeah, I'm Rocky, and they're like, Why they can't do it. They think he's a celebrity, yeah. It's like me and the hero.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

He's it's like messy for them. Yeah, they're absolutely fucking how come can you believe it? They see him as a way out of of this life. Because they're all like he was when he was young, they're dirty, they're you know, street kids, they don't see any sort of way out of legit way of getting out of this.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Well, they mentioned more than once in the in the film how it would take them, like my old man or my my mum, it would take them a week or a month to earn this money that they've got so easy just from and he says, I'll tell you what, go and get some beers, go and get some beans, and we'll go up to have a proper feast up in my room. And that's when I think they nick it all though, don't they?

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Yeah. Swell of them's got them all under his shirt, but it's a comedy amount of stuff. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

He goes, Oh, this is just just uh you know, he they can't help themselves. He has been in, I think, at this stage to go and see his old pal Jerry already.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

His his yeah, because Jerry's become the local priest.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

And he does go and see him, and then Jerry comes to visit, comes to see him again, where the lads are around at his room and they're having dinner.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

And he can see how they idolise him and they listen to him. And Jerry hasn't had that much success with him. He's done all the work he can to try and keep him on the right side of the tracks.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

Yeah, he's got like community kind of sport, and he's trying to get them into basketball to get a bit of stuff about like following rules and you know, having a bit of team sport and and looking out for each other in that sort of sense. And but because Rocky's kind of into it, he says, Yeah, you know, we'll go down with a big time.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Oh, you couldn't beat him anyway. But you're a dollar to a nickel, you'll get every you know, you all have uh you'll get beat. And they're like, Oh, we wouldn't we wouldn't get beat. Well let's do a bit of practice first, though. So they're all running down to to practice, and Jerry the priest is just like, you know, those boys idolise you, you've done a good thing. Come down one, you come down and and see how they get on. And they have this game against another load of kids. Uh so wild. And absolutely running with a ball, punching people in the face, hitting the ball, tripping them up, no kind of rules, and they end up getting beat. Actually, Rocky takes the the whistle and he starts beating them up. Beating them up because their discipline's so bad, he's saying, You can't do that, and right, and I want the money afterwards, give me those nickels, and they one of them tries to play him with a slug, doesn't he? And he's like a bit of lead instead of a coin. And he goes, Go on. And they they finally got a little bit of enthusiasm for the game, and somebody's noticed him that they actually care for and go, Yeah, let's do this. So there seems to be hope for for them. They all really just love him.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Yeah, so it's it becomes clear to Rocky when he gets what he's come back for is his hundred grand.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

And imagine a hundred grand in 1938. Yeah, it's a serious wedge, especially in the in in that economy. Yeah. He they rather than pay him, you know, Bogart's where'd you see Bogart as a villain? They uh they're gonna have him killed. There was never a thing of you go to prison and keep quiet, we'll give you, it's just no, you go to the time, we'll kill you when you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

The business is absolutely booming. He he sees that Bogart has got a partner, another partner who's got part of the business, yeah, and it's it's drinking, it's dancing, it's gambling, and Rocky's thinking, yeah, this is good. I'll tell you what, I'll I'll take my hundred grand. And he seems to be okay with that, but he wants, he goes, and and a cut in the business. And he goes, Well, you know, I want half of your side of the business. And he goes, Well, I'm not the boss, the other guy's the boss, and he goes, Max the boss, and he goes, Huh, I don't want Max, I want half of yours. That's what we agreed on. And he goes, I just like did three years in prison for you. You were investing our hundred grand in this business, you've become a uh you know, successful. I want just what's mine. And they go, sure, sure, but you're right. As soon as he's out the door, they don't see it that way, and they try and have him bumped off.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Yeah, which and he smells a rat, so in in retaliation, he actually kidnaps Fraser. Yeah. What are you saying? What are you null? They've also got a bit like on Dodge Wars, there's a a ledger with everything detailed in there. So he swipes that and now he can.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Now he understands he's got 280 grand in here, he's got sixty-five grand in there, he's got another hundred and fifty in this one. Right, yeah. You've done okay. I'm I'm taking half of what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Yeah, so to let him so to let him go, they pay him, but they also tip off the feds.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

And he knows He's he's quick enough though to stuff that in an envelope, give it to Soapy or one of one of the lads. One of the fucking hide, don't look at he said, Don't open that, but hide it in the boiler house and I'll see you after. So then he's he's reading a detective comics book or something. Yeah. When there were a magazine, when when the police c so so far as I mean, one of the the kid he gives it to is actually on the stairs when they walk past him. Yeah. And then he's just he's just so like nonchalant when they come in and he's just like, I'm reading your life story. See?

SPEAKER_01 13:30

He's just throwing the gun outside.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Yeah, they turn the place upside down. I mean, even the bin is turned up. All the drawers empty out the floor, but they can't find anything, so there's no case, they've got no way of proving.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

And uh that's right, and they they take him down and he's he's kind of let off, and it makes the papers again, and it's almost like, well, we all knew he was guilty, but the police have had to let him go, and he's also got off with the Fraser kidnapping because they've had to say Oh, it's a mistake. It's a mistake. And they're all the police are all in the pockets of the gangsters who are hoping the police were gonna do the dirty work for him because he's got these ledgers, then they know that he can bring down the names um and the people and all the money of the whole corrupt city.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

So he goes to see the dead end boys. Yeah. They've buried the the letter in a like a hole in the wall and covered it with r with the rubble. And they get it, they give it to him, and he gives them a load of cash. I think he empties his wallet out and gives them a spit that and like fifty dollars each. Well then they they all get fifty apart from the leader who gets a ton. And then Jerry gets wind, then the priest that they're down the local pool hall just getting fucking pissed. They're getting absolutely pissed. They've got new all of them got a new suit on with like the old hats and all the rest of it, and they're playing buying they're buying drinks for everyone, they're absolutely living large, and that's when they're saying, Oh, this is like a year's wage for my old man and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Why why aren't you down, you know, why aren't you playing basketball and uh back in the gym and he goes cash in my pocket? I don't wanna, I don't want to and he ends up actually lamping one of the the guys in the bar, not the young lads.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Uh it's one of the gamblers that they like turn for count or something because they even and even one of the kids says, you know, every gambler dies broke, so they're just gonna live fast while they can. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

And now it's Well the the the the net is closing in on Rocky, basically, because he's he's up to you know, you know, his his eyeballs really.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

No, what it's it's Jerry that turns, isn't it? Jerry's after he's had enough of it. After he's seen the lads like this, and he knows where they got their money from and he knows how corrupt it all is. So he he effectively starts poorly named in in this day and age of the reform party, and he's gonna go up against them and he's making all these public statements outing people as being the enemy, as being go see the newspapers, they won't back him eventually. They drive it's this is the sort of area where they drive around in cars with loudspeakers, just you know, just churning out the messages. And so Frasier and Mac say to Rocky that this guy's gotta fucking go, like we can't have this guy go around shouting all our business out. And Rocky's like, Listen, I'll get him to stop. And they say no, they explicitly Fraser's like, No, we've got to kill this guy, and he's like, No way. So he's still loyal to his mate from back in the day. It's like, let me try, there's gotta be another way. One thing for sure, though, is you're not fucking killing this guy. You're not killing him, like sending him out. Yeah, okay, yeah. Fraser's like, Yeah, so there's definitely another way. You fuck off for a bit and we'll sort it out. And he tricks him, but they kind of look the other way and he opens the front door, but he kind of nicks into the bathroom, which is right next to it, and they think he's left, and they just blurt out, Yeah, we'll kill him like this, and we'll do that, and he's just listening. And he just what it just kills him. It just when he when he walks out of the bathroom and they see him there, they're all surprised. Matt pulls the gun and he's he's quicker. He just shoots him straight away. And then you don't see I didn't think that you actually saw on screen that he killed Bog, you see him cowering Frasier.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Bog Bogart sort of runs a little bit around, doesn't he? And he runs into the next bar and he's kind of shoots him through the bar.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

He kills people through the wall in the bar because it's it's like a mirror and it's yeah, like you say, it's into the bar, and he's just the way he shoots is so erratic, he's like throwing his hand around. And but yeah, a few people get caught in the crossfire and kills.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

It's just carnage and it's not.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

And you think, well, you're fucked now, Rocky, because you'd stolen some stuff before. Now there's at least three people dead.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Yeah, and and more to come.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Yeah, there's straight away people who are on the wire, the police are like, shoot out at the blah blah club, they're straight down there, and he's trapped now. He's he's just always trying to escape through the fire escapes up onto the roofs, he's just shooting fucking anything. He picks up a load of bullets that one fills his pockets and he's just fucking shooting everything. I think he kills a couple of police.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Yeah, he kills a couple of police. He's absolutely fucked now, and he's yeah, he's just shooting anything that moves, they're shooting back at him, and he won't give up until Jerry comes out. He realises. Yeah, they have your classic kind of hostage situation, yeah. They've got smoke, tear gas, tear gas in the and Jerry says, Look, I'll go and get him out. And they let him go in the police. He says, Come on, they're gonna shoot you, shoot holes in your Come out with me, and he he waves the white flag and he says, He's coming down with me.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

He is hit, isn't he, Rocky?

SPEAKER_01 18:10

And he well, he gets hit because he he wanders off with him and he goes, Sorry I had to do this, but now you're my hostage. And then he he kind of takes him to outside and pushes him down and runs off down an alley, and there he gets shot in the leg. Yeah. And eventually they catch up with him, and he's still just wise cracking and saying, spitting and punching and and all the rest of it. He's he's anything but intimidated or scared, and he's just going down in a blaze of glory. And then it just kind of goes through a montage of the police Well, this is not gonna be a couple of years now. This is you kill police, it's a death sentence. He he they talk about how he's obviously Jerry's been into him and said, Look, help me take down this whole racket here. Like, you know, it's not just you, take down the and so the corruption starts getting brought to the surface, and through the trial, a load of other people are gonna get brought to justice as well. But he's looking at the chair. Yeah, he's gonna he's got sentenced to death. He shot a load of people, and it wasn't just other gangsters, it was the police. Once you start taking out police, you're really struggling. So Jerry has something big to ask. And this is it, is it's 20 minutes to go.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

He's like he's clocks that these lads, and by extension, all the young people and everyone that idolises this kind of lifestyle, this sort of gangster life.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Thousands, if not millions, of people across the country. You know, this is this is a case that's caught the the nation. He's like the Bonnie and Clyde, the you know, the Robin Hood who robs from the rich to give to himself.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

So what he's asking, Rocky, is if you can show Turn yellow. Show that you're scared, sh you know, beg for whatever. Well he asks him, doesn't he?

SPEAKER_01 20:07

He goes, Are you scared? And he goes, I ain't scared, I ain't scared. I'll I'll go and ask him and say, I'm gonna sit down in that chair and say, short back inside, please. I'm just gonna be and he's going, I don't want you to do that.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

I want you to The kids need to see that you're scared and that you don't want it.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Why would it be like they're gonna follow you? Yeah. They're gonna but if they can see that you're it's the bravest thing you'll ever do because it'll only be me, you and God that will know. And he's like, I'm not gonna do that. And he goes, please, and he no, I'm not gonna do that. And he goes, Right, will you walk me down there? And he goes, Yeah, and he goes, I just don't want to hear you saying a prayer for me or anything and he goes, Okay, you won't hear me Say a prayer for a boy who couldn't run as fast as I could.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

But when it comes to it for all his bluster and bravado, he does fucking Yeah, he puts it on. He puts on the Does he put it on or is it legit?

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Oh no, he it's he puts it on. You reckon? Yeah, 100%. 100% he puts it on. This isn't he he's gone all the way, he's so cool up until there.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

He's just mate.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

He's done it for the mate and for the boys. He knows, yeah. No, that's the whole kind of part of the film for me, and I think that's why this film is remembered as otherwise it's it's a good film, it's otherwise, you know, great parts and and obviously big stars in it and things, but it's the ending that I think everybody recognises as something very that twist where he the the bravest kind of gangster who gives zero fucks for any of it, he puts on being a coward so that those other kids won't follow him because he knows deep down inside He dies.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

He dies, but also hit the mythology of his Gangster life dies within. So they can hopefully see that and not take the same path.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Yeah, no, I think without Jerry going down and asking him, he's he's not even he's not even in his mind. But as he takes that walk, he thinks this is the one last thing I can do to square myself with a guy upstairs and and also with my mate here, which he's always been looking out for. Because they genuinely, you know, like each other. And he always has hope, doesn't he? That he's he's got a good bone in his body and he can be turned into good. I mean he he b he does have a bit of a courtship with Yeah, there was a bit of romance there, but she never sets her up with and he goes, I'll get you in here. And she has already had a gangster type of husband who's died.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Yeah, that's really good. It's really good. I hadn't seen it before. So first time for me. Oh really. I can see even my missus was doing something on the computer and I could see she'd got drawn into watching it as well, so she was she was really enjoying it. No, strong, really strong. It got three Oscar nominations as well. Yeah. Ten years into the Oscars at this point. The best actor noved for James Cagney, best director and best story as it was back then. But did he didn't win. He didn't win before. Well certainly James Cagney didn't win.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Noms were but I like James Cagney. I mean he's one of those actors my dad liked, and he would always say, Oh, James Cagney, you know. And he did White Heat as well, which is another uh look at me, Ma, top of the world. You know, he's got a great line in in great lines, and he did Cockadoodle Dandy as well, I think it was. It was like a musical, multi-talented, you know. These it was a it was a song and dancer, really. So it was it wasn't just these gangster films, he was absolutely like Gene Kelly like. He was he he had all the moves.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

And you know what this obviously famously inspired Angels with Filthy Souls. Right, okay, what it's a fake movie based on this, which is what Macaulay Culkin uses in Home and Love. Oh, right, yeah. But that's the same stuff as well.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Yeah, you're only gonna do it. Yeah, that's how they talk in this, yeah. Yeah, for that old timey speech as well, I think it was a real classic example of that. So I think it's the first James Cagney one we've done on the pod. Oh no, we did the multisfocus. We did the multisfocus. We've had a lot of.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

This was pre-like superstar Bogart.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Yeah, that's right. I mean he was second Billy in here rather than all his other films where it had gone out on the on the top. But yeah, it was a I mean occasionally they'll show it on Prime and everything and and BBC i Player. I got it on Prime that you can see off.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

I was surprised.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

For some reason, jeez.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

I don't know why, I was thinking about Citizen Kane for some reason. Because they'd had loads of fur sight with the camera moving. And this is 1938, and the first shot you see of the town of the s the sort of streets where they grew up, the camera's right up top, and it kind of swooped it kind of moves right down. This is like quite advanced for for back then. For back for the first. Because I was you know, if you think of I suppose you'd the twenties for you know first of all. But you would basically just film static, almost like filming a fucking theatrical production, you know. But this was the camera was moving around and a lot and it was a lot of different scenes, a lot of different locations. So I was quite surprised by how how well it looked. It held up really well. The the the language that they use obviously places it appropriately where it's set, and it just sort of made me chuckle at first, but they're there, you know, it's that almost like sort of stereotype overdue. Um this was strong. A really strong recommend for me. Excellent. Go out and watch it.