Midweek Mention... Memories of Murder

Memories of Murder

Sidey: [00:00:00] this is the start of Dan week. Yeah. It's not a themed week about Dan- No ... but it's your choices.

Dan: Correct. Um, I thought it was about time we did a South American film again, so we went South Korea.

Sidey: Yep. Yep. Bong Joon-ho. Yeah.

Dan: Um- We've done

Sidey: Parasite.

Dan: Well,

we all went out for a big

Sidey: one.

That was right after lockdown, wasn't it? Yeah. It was the, the first outing. We went to the Savoy Hotel.

Reegs: We did. That was great.

Sidey: cinema thing

Dan: Memories of Murder was his 2003 kinda neo-noir crime thriller. Breakout. Breakout. Um,

Sidey: breakout

Reegs: and- So prior to, a long time prior to Parasite- Yeah ... Snowpiercer, I think was his.

Okja we did for the pod.

Sidey: Oh, yeah. Um- This is kind of loosely based, inspired by real... 'Cause it's a serial killer film. Yeah. A real serial killer, um- Events ... what happened

Reegs: in- In South Korea. [00:01:00] Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Sidey: The Hwanggseong serial murders. All right.

Dan: A- and it's kinda set in and around the, the late '80s, um, when South Korea was still under military rule.

Um-

Reegs: Okay ... and- And we explored that in some other movies that we've watched, right? Yeah. Um, I'm thinking of that one that Chris had us watch that was about the fall of South Korea in

Sidey: Oh, yeah. That was really good

Reegs: Um, so we know a little bit about the history there.

Sidey: We're all over- And, and this was- We're all over

Dan: was- South Korea

this was set out in the sticks. So

Sidey: is a rural, um, police cop squad. Mm-hmm. Um, perhaps not, um- equipped technically and experience-wise for a serial killer investigation because they find the first body turns up-

Dan: Well, it,

it it starts, doesn't it- It does ... with a guy on the back of a- Tractor ... a tractor.

Sidey: Tractor Boys.

Dan: Having a cigarette, just you're thinking, "Oh, where he's going?" It's just between two rice paddy, um- [00:02:00] He's the police cop

he's the police cop, and he's just cruising down, and he's terribly relaxed about everything. Um, and- There's

Sidey: a body in a kinda drainage, um, flue channel type thing, and the crime scene's already been, like, completely mangled.

There's farmers there. There's kids playing around. They c- would they shout after him like, "Shitcar," or something? Yeah. They, like, give him abuse. And then they find one basically clear, um, footprint, and as he's trying to, like, clear the scene, he's like, "Right, you lot fuck off. You get back. You get back." Uh, the tractor just goes towards it, and he's like, "No, no, no, no, no."

The tractor just goes over this one bit of evidence. Oh. So it's, like, a total flummox.

Reegs: Oh. There's people

Dan: are picking up clothes in the field and just, like, swinging them over their heads and things that had obviously been ripped off this, um, this poor young girl who, um-

Sidey: been r- it's a rape

Dan: yeah.

Reegs: It's, it's- Oh,

Dan: a rape-murder. Um, and they are, um, just not equipped or [00:03:00] anywhere near, um, able to, to do what needs to be done, and

Sidey: You get the feeling and, and they kind of show you that if something has gone down, they'll just find someone and-

Cris: he

Reegs: has this-

Sidey: them like

Reegs: has

Cris: thing at the beginning with the-- I can't remember if he tells the police commissioner or someone in the room when he's in,

Sidey: Is it the short guy?

Cris: No. I don't know. Yeah, there's the police commissioner where he's like, "Oh, I've got a sixth sense. I know, uh,

Sidey: it's all on hunch, isn't it?

Reegs: Yeah. He's like,

Cris: know already.

My gut tells me." He's like, "Well, look at those two. One is the killer. The other one is the brother of the victim. Which one is which?" And he just looks. You can see he looks. Hmm. As in, as if he would just

Sidey: doesn't need evidence. Yeah. He's just got a gut. He have a good feeling for it.

I can

Dan: by the look of their eyes,

Reegs: Okay

Dan: Um, and that will come back over the, the course of the film a

Cris: Because then we-- I think the next scene is when the, the guy's walking on the

Reegs: I don't need evidence, basically. Pretty much. And

Dan: got a gut feeling. The guy

Cris: walks from the, on the street, and [00:04:00] he's... After the first, uh, killing.

And there's a woman that walks in front of

Sidey: Yeah, you think he's stalking

Cris: Yeah. And they-- she's really panicking. He's there trying to help her, and then it turns out that they have a, he has a fight with this police officer from the rural area, and then it turns

Reegs: out- Well,

Sidey: has such a freakout, she kind of falls down into a ditch, doesn't she?

And he goes to help her, but she's panicking, and it looks like, you know, we've just had one- Yeah ... fatality. Yeah. It looks like... And it, it turns out this is the, this, is this the guy from Seoul? Yes. Yeah. So this is the more experienced policeman that's getting bussed in to sort of support them and help them out.

Okay. Um, but he's giving a fucking right dusting up. He

Reegs: up.

Dan: he comes in off, off, like, the top ropes, like of

Sidey: he does. He does a flying

Dan: flying kick ... of a flying kick into him, and he kicks him down, and he punches him. And then eventually, next sort of scene, they're driving along in the car, and he says, "Well, you know, you should've said something."

He goes, "Like, you bloody didn't give me any chance to say anything. Like, I'm, I'm just trying to find the way how to get to you, and you sh- what's your first reaction? It's just nuts, like, you know, that you're coming in with this flying [00:05:00] kick." Um, but they're trying to fabricate evidence and, and having really violent methods i-

Sidey: in how they're doing it.

Well, there's, the, first of all, there's the- And then- ... there's a, there's an MO. The killer's got an MO. He, um, he will bind the women in a certain way with their bra, I think, or- Yeah,

Dan: their brassiere

Sidey: So the hands behind the back, and then he puts their knickers over their head, um, rapes them, um, and they're always-

you know, it's just like, there's other things as they, the investigation comes out that it takes them ages, doesn't it? What, I think the lady figures out, out about the song. There's certain other things that they just don't fucking have a clue about. Um, so they, they clash because the, uh, the original f- um, detective, uh, that's Park, isn't

Reegs: they have things like forensics and stuff or- No.

Sidey: only up to a point. They c-

Cris: have only the autopsy, the autopsy people, but...

Sidey: So they, they, they test for semen and that, that

Reegs: they'd be, it

Cris: this is

Reegs: And this is in the '80s, right? That,

Sidey: that has to be sent to the US.

Cris: is in the '80s, so th-that

Sidey: Yeah

Cris: you have to remember

Dan: They've [00:06:00] heard of the technology, but they haven't got any of that kind of,

Sidey: But I thought that Asians would be like well ahead on the

Cris: Not back then.

Reegs: Semiconductors, that's their

Dan: of... But,

Reegs: Yeah, but, um-

Sidey: but they clash, don't they? 'Cause Park is, like we said, he's just like, "Well, I think it's blah," and you know, "So therefore that's good enough." Whereas this other guy's like, "No, no, we need like procedure and evidence and, you know, like an audit trail of stuff."

Yeah. So they just clash and like pretty violently

Dan: they also need somebody who to pin this on, and they f- they find a young disabled, um, man, um- Kwang-ho. Yeah, Kwang-ho, who's, um, who's got a scar, and he's, um, he's got his name, Park, through, um, a lady friend that he goes to visit and says, "Oh, well, sh- he was always hanging around, um, saying that that girl that died was pretty."

And that's enough for him to- Yeah

Reegs: kind of- The hunch is enough

Dan: hunch is enough. The hunch is enough. He finds him playing arcade games. That's it.

Sidey: less than a hunch, it's just convenient.

Dan: It's just convenient, and he's a re- it's, you... If, if you thought at this [00:07:00] point, oh, this... He's k- he's a kind of, you know, he's just a bit incompetent.

He's trying his best, though. He's... You, you're looking for, uh, someone to, you know, the detective to like. Um, and we've seen him in other things, haven't we? Um,

Sidey: Is he in

Dan: way- Have you not seen this one? Yeah. The way, the way that he goes to treat this, this young disabled guy without any, um, evidence, he's just an asshole.

He's just a real asshole, and he's... They're, they're just trying... Him and his partner, um, was it K- Yong-koo? Um, just try to, um- Beat a

Cris: beat him

Dan: out of him ... beat a confession out of him. And telling him what to say. He's putting the recorder on stop, pause. "No, you meant this, didn't you?" Start up again. Tell him he's getting it wrong

Sidey: tied her up with the thing. And yeah, yeah. And it's- Oh ... like, it's grim. It's really awful. Yeah. What,

Reegs: what have we seen of the killer so far? Nothing. Nothing really. Nothing. No. No. Okay. We do

Sidey: see, it's quite, it's quite good in here, with the next victim kind of running along.

Reegs: Yeah. But [00:08:00] when, when we're seeing these things, are we just what? He's in shadow or something or-

Sidey: No, it's really good 'cause he... It's, um, the woman's sort of running along, and it's raining. Um-

Cris: always raining when these

Sidey: clear this is his pattern. The woman tends to be wearing red, it's raining, and then there's something else that comes along.

Um, but the, the only time we ever actually see... We don't see the murder, we just see her get grabbed as she's running along, like looking behind, look behind, and the guy just jumps out. And you just see a-

Cris: from the rice paddy, he

Sidey: from the right ... from the right pa- yeah. You see his face and you go, "Whoa."

And, uh, yeah, it's quite creepy. Uh, more, more so for her, I'd imagine. Yeah. Yeah.

Cris: And then again, there's, there's another one discovered, and there's another... And, and now the pressure increases, but there's also the pressure from the public because the father of this kid is, like, beside himself. "It's not him. He didn't do it."

Dan: my son's innocent. He's, he's been strung up for this. He's been taken down."

Sidey: The guy from Seoul is like, "He- this guy's not capable. Like, he's just not-" Yeah. "He's just... Look at him. There's just [00:09:00] no way."

Dan: this was a complex kind of murder Well, he,

Cris: "Look at his fingers." He had, like, stumpy- Right ... you

Reegs: know-

Sidey: wouldn't be able... 'Cause there's a specific, it's like a triple knot. There's a

Cris: with a knot that basically he ties their hands and their legs behind their back, and it's like a three-way knot.

He's like, "Look at his hand and his fingers. He will never be able to do that." Plus, on this, that, whatever. So he has- Yeah ... he has a lot of holes in their theory. Yeah. And they're just sat there with this guy- kid upside down-

Sidey: they string him up ... hanging upside down-

Reegs: in his pants.

Cris: and they're like, "So what? You're telling me he's innocent?"

He's like, "Yeah, f- let him go." It's

Sidey: But

Reegs: they do

Dan: take him into the forest where it happened, get him to start digging and say, "What are you doing?"

He goes, "Oh," and he's just laughing, you know, 'cause he's, he's not, um... Let's say he's, nobody's looking out for him, very vulnerable, and he's, he thinks it's a game, you know. "Oh, just digging." He goes, "No, we're digging your grave," like, you know, and he gets all scared. They're saying, "Look, we know that you did it."

And he starts giving him, them information that- He probably has

Sidey: something

he,

Dan: which proves that he must have seen it. For them, it, it proves that he did it, that [00:10:00] they're on the right hunch-like. Yeah ... you know. But i- he, he's kinda talking in the third person, "I saw," and then he did this, and then he did that, and he gives details that only somebody- He

Reegs: was

Cris: saw him ... she was tied like this. She had her knickers on her head, but it wasn't like, "I put the knickers on her head."

So...

Dan: Yeah. So, um, he, he knows something, but it's, they're certainly, you know, just trying to pin everything onto him. Um, but he does eventually, um, the,

you

Sidey: there's the final-

Dan: sense kind of prevails, and they realize it, it's not him.

Sidey: Yeah, and the final piece of the kind of, um, killer's ritual i- is a song, and it's Kwon Kyok, the female officer who re- deduces this.

There's a, there's a request line, and there's this really obscure song gets requested on the same night that all these-

Reegs: the killings have happened

Sidey: yeah ... murders have happened. So now they're, they're listening out. And there's later on where they're all having a barney in the, um, thing, and she's like, "Stop, stop, stop."

The song's on. They're like, [00:11:00] "Fuck." Yeah. Something's happening. There's gonna be another one in there. The, the guy looks out the window and he's like, "Fuck, it's raining." You

Dan: so.

And she's totally underappreciated. She's probably the best one of the lot, to

Sidey: she's the only one

Dan: the only one- Even the guy from Seoul isn't knocking it out the park, is he? He, he's better.

Well,

Sidey: he starts to fall into their ways, isn't he? Yeah. 'Cause it, there's a role reversal when they, they s- think they might have the guy, don't they? Yeah. Later on. There's a guy that

Cris: they,

Sidey: that they're taking shelter at one point for some rain, and t- and there's two girls, just, like, real dead young schoolgirls going past, and they're like, "Come and, uh, just get in here for a minute," 'cause it's, like, hideous storm.

Um, and they start talking about, um, this story that they've heard about a guy who lives under the well or something in the, at the back of the school, and he's the one who's been doing all this killing. So they look into that. Um, and they, eventually they find a survivor- Yeah ... of, um, this guy who maybe it was his first go and he wasn't quite at it.

And, um, someone's got away, still, like, [00:12:00] horrifically traumatized, and they're able to get a few more details. They don't know

Cris: The hands are soft.

Sidey: got soft hands is the thing. Yeah. Yeah. Um-

Reegs: so he doesn't work in the fields So it's not labor And

then

Sidey: he's not a laborer, no.

Reegs: they go

Cris: back to the two village ones.

They go back to the forest just to kind of go back to the crime scene. Then they hear a noise, they hide. The sole guy comes in, he hi- he hears another noise, someone else comes in, and you see a guy, he comes in, takes a pair of,

Sidey: He pulls a bra out

Cris: He takes a bra out of his pants. He puts it on the floor.

Sidey: know is what is used to tie

Reegs: Yeah ... the girl. There

Cris: how

Sidey: like, "Oh, here we go." He

Cris: his pants down. He's wearing

Sidey: Women's knickers ... pink, pink knickers-

Cris: women's knickers, and then he starts having a tug.

Sidey: He just lays out some pants and a bra and he

Dan: In the field. Yeah ... fucking off. And the, all the police are looking at him.

Sidey: just some guy who's got a weird thing.

And then,

Reegs: And then, is that it? Honestly. And then,

Cris: Yeah.

Two people walking-

Reegs: in and- They run after him in the forest

that's

amazing

Sidey: breaks a twig, and then he looks around and he's like, "Uh," and runs off. And they're like, "He obviously [00:13:00] doesn't wanna get pinched for having a wank in a..."

Dan: the..." But they do, they do find him, and, um,

Sidey: It's a really long chase.

It's really good.

Cris: and- And they start torturing this guy as well.

Dan: Yeah. They p- they try and pin it on him, but, uh, neighbors

Reegs: the bra thing would make you a little bit, um-

Sidey: And then- Yeah. I mean, I mean the first thing you're like, "Uh-oh." And then he's like, "Well, no, obviously I didn't wanna get caught wanking in a field."

Yeah. And he is- It's embarrassing

Dan: you realize that his wife is really ill. He's looking after her.

He's probably just gone there for like the kids are at home. They live in like a, a one room. He's desperate to

Cris: what he said. He's like, "I've got my wife and kids at home. I can't do that at home." And when you... When they, the police goes to his house, it's basically a studio.

And mind you, this is rural Korea, but it looks shit. Yeah. Yeah. Like really

Dan: He's got a few, he's got a few sort of porno mags and, and things. Yeah. Um, but, um, not anything else that would indicate that he's the, the killer. But they still, you know, really beat the shit out of him and, um- They're

Reegs: clueless.

They're not chasing evidence really

Sidey: They, [00:14:00] they do. They, well, they've- They're

Dan: trying to beat

Sidey: it out of him ... they've found out

Dan: he's ready to admit it, to be honest, after the beatings. Yeah. He's going, "Oh,

Reegs: people will say

Sidey: Like people say. They,

Dan: Oh, I did that. Yeah, sorry I did that.

Yeah, yeah."

Sidey: But they do find out that it's, it's gotta be some guy, probably, probably a professional guy who works in an office 'cause he's got these soft hands and, and they do... Uh, the, the trail eventually will lead them to this clerk. Yeah.

Um-

Cris: Well,

the song plays, and then they call straight away to the radio station because the only way to request is through a card. Yeah. Through a signed card with a name and an address. Okay. You can't just call. It wasn't that

Reegs: easy. So he left himself a very unique calling card.

Sidey: Literal calling card, yeah.

Yeah.

Cris: Yeah.

Reegs: Yeah.

Dan: And when they went round to his house, um, he's, he's smarter than any of the others. Like, he just will not admit this. He's not having

Reegs: And they've got nothing.

Sidey: doesn't he? He just, he's very,

Reegs: They've got nothing except the phone, the, the music

Dan: military. Yeah. And- He's also former military.

Yeah. And they- In the army and- A- and he knows and, and people know that the cops [00:15:00] beat confessions out of people, and he says, "You're not gonna do it out of me." Like, you know, you're not... And he really does convince you that

Sidey: he- There is no evidence

Dan: no evidence. It, it, it may not be h- So It may not be him.

Sidey: coincidental

Reegs: of just beating the shit out of people are not gonna work on this guy. No. He's not intimidated

Sidey: in any- But the, the,

Reegs: guy from Seoul- And he can defend

Sidey: who's the one who's come in to bring some method and some, you know- Mm. He's starting to fucking lose it. He, he really believes that this, this is the guy. Um, but it's circumstantial. He's just, he just requested a song. So what? He just likes that

Reegs: It's not enough evidence on its own. It's, it's particularly,

Dan: um, bad at, um, at one point where, um, there's a- another murder and it's of a girl that the guy from Seoul has, uh, a young schoolgirl and he's put a plaster on her or something and you've realized that you're gonna see that plaster on a dead body in a little while's ti- time.

Um- Yeah ... and he, he properly loses it after this. This is all in and around, um, the, [00:16:00] the, um, original, um, like culprit or the original l- guy who got accused, the vulnerable guy. He puts a, a piece of wood with a nail through one of the detective's legs that's been beating him up.

Sidey: There's a massive brawl, isn't there?

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Big brawl. Um, and he just freaks out. Um, and he ends up whacking, um, this guy and it's got a nail in it.

Sidey: A rusty nail, I think. Yeah. They,

Dan: they, um, they run after him. Um,

Sidey: he ends- 'Cause they, they do think-

Dan: He knows

Sidey: something ... he's seen it. He probably, you know, 'cause he just hangs around, he sort of lurks around 'cause he doesn't have anywhere to go or whatever, and he's seen something and they need to get some detail out of him but after he's done this he runs off, doesn't he?

Dan: Yeah, and he ends up getting hit by a

Sidey: He gets mowed down.

Reegs: right. Blimey.

Dan: so that line of inquiry is gone as well. The guy who got the, um, the guy who got the, the bad leg, um, he's...

The next day he's pushing, um, the, the car along the road and [00:17:00] everything. It's not starting and, um,

You

know, I saw and they look at it. Anyway, he ends up losing his leg- Oh right ... because,

Sidey: His trademark was to

Dan: Do like

Sidey: She was like 12 or something. That

Reegs: him. Oh,

Sidey: sort of- Yeah ... yeah, his violent trait. She was like losing his leg.

Dan: Um, and still the murders go on and still the, um, the,

Reegs: murders there been now?

Dan: So four. Four.

Reegs: Four. Okay.

Dan: Um, and

Reegs: So have we got any insight into his...

Is his motivations at-

Sidey: No, that's the thing about him.

He's just a dude. He's got n- he's

Cris: quite stoic as well. He works in a control room at the factory.

He doesn't really give anything away. He goes and eats by himself. He just sits there. He's very handsome.

Sidey: We don't know anything about what is motive other than he's just fixated on power trip over women.

Yeah. But he's just completely ordinary guy. He's- And this is the thing ... no other

Cris: On the night that he, he's under surveillance, and on the night that he's out for dinner, uh, our guy from Seoul is watching him.

He falls asleep, and he just sees him going in the, in a [00:18:00] bus, and his car won't start, and that's the night where he kills that young girl.

Dan: The schoolgirl with the plaster.

Reegs: after that

Cris: they go to the funeral, and he just loses it. And he's like, "I know who did it. It's that guy." And he... Because, uh, uh, meanwhile, they have a DNA sample from a sperm, and he, they said the only way we can get this is if we send it to America.

Reegs: Yeah.

Cris: And every day or every other day, they keep calling

Sidey: waiting.

Waiting, waiting,

Cris: "Have we got this DNA sample? Can we get this DNA sample?" He goes and goes to his house, picks the suspect up, beats him up, and-

Sidey: He throws him down on some train lines. Yeah. And I thought he was gonna, like, leave him to another one to get hit by a train. Yeah. But he, he pulls the gun on him, and he's gonna execute him.

This is the guy from Seoul, who's the one that's supposed to be the- Yeah, yeah ... the, the legit policeman. And the original one- And the other guy, role reverser, comes down. He's like, "No, no." And he's like, "I've got this, I've

Cris: got this." I've got the results,

Sidey: the results, and the results are inconclusive.

Ah. So they've still got fuck all. And,

Reegs: what the fuck?

Sidey: mate, he still [00:19:00] pulls the gun on him again. You think, "Oh, he's actually gonna fucking do it. He's gonna execute him."

Dan: He does. He shoots, he shoots, but he,

Sidey: but he- He shoots. The- 'cause he's-

Dan: misses

Sidey: Park's let him go, and he's sort of gone down the tunnel a little bit.

Yeah. And he sh- he shoots, misses him, or maybe hits him, but he still gets away. Um-

Cris: he's got his hands at the behind his back with the handcuffs. Yeah. But he just gets away.

Reegs: Okay. Um, so- What, with, with his hand- the

Sidey: that's it. It's unresolved. It is

Dan: It's unresolved, and then it goes-

Sidey: bit ends.

It goes, it jumps to 2003. Park, um- 10 years later ... maybe because of that, is no longer a detective. He's married with kids, and he's a salesman. Yeah. Um, and he's commuting, and he stops off at the, um, the site of the original... Not the original murder, but the original one that started the, the drainage

Reegs: The trai- Yeah, yeah.

Sidey: And he just goes, and he sort of looks in there again, and it's, you know, this sort of thing obviously eating away at him, and he's just sort of looking and he's like, "Phew." And a little kiddie comes along and says, "What are you doing, mister?" Um, he's like, "I'm just looking for something, but probably nothing there."

And she says, "Oh, I've saw another guy [00:20:00] here not so long ago." Um- And he's like, "All right."

Reegs: All right. Who was that?

Sidey: yeah. What was he doing? And she said, "Oh, he said he, he'd been here, he'd done something here a long time ago." And he's like, "Oh, w- fucking hell, what does he look like?" She's, "Well, just-"

Reegs: Just some dude Just a normal guy, yeah.

Sidey: a normal guy, yeah. And that's it. And he just stares. It's a, a just a blank sort of stare right into the camera, and he's just, like, lost, like-

Dan: Guy's still

Reegs: Still no closer to finding him.

Yeah. They beat up a load of people. So many, so many mistakes made. People died. So many- People maimed.

Dan: got away with murder.

Reegs: And a guy got away with murder and carried on. He's,

Sidey: In real life, um, through advances in, um, DNA and all that sort of stuff, they did catch the guy, um, Lee Choon-jae. Um, he later confessed, hopefully not through violent, uh, coercion- Yeah, hopefully not ... um, to multiple murders.

Um, but the statute of limitations had expired for these crimes.

Reegs: Serious? So-

Sidey: Yeah.

Reegs: the [00:21:00] statute of limitations- So he got away ... is there a statute of limitations on murder in, in England? I don't think there

Sidey: I wouldn't have thought so, no. I don't think so. But, um, yeah, apparently, uh, in, but there, so it says.

South Korea.

Reegs: South Korea. Wow. Fuck me.

Sidey: So it's fucking bleak.

Reegs: like Yeah. And this time- How many did he do?

Sidey: do? Uh, I don't know the real life guy- Real life ... 'cause we don't know, 'cause he, uh, he identified some,

Reegs: Did he carry on in, through the '80s and '90s

Dan: it's said that he confessed to ki- killing 14 people. Um, and, um-

Reegs: that's more than you

Dan: Yeah. Um, I, I announced that a man, Lee Chun-jae, had been identified as suspect in the killings. Um, and yeah, he's, he was, um, multiple rapes as well

Sidey: Wow.

Reegs: blimey.

Sidey: So they do... Obviously the, the crimes, and obviously that's,

Dan: like,

Sidey: really horrendous, but they play the police force almost for laughs at times. Yeah.

Like really dark- Yeah ... black humor of, like, these guys are just complete [00:22:00] goons.

Reegs: Like, Yeah ...idiots.

Sidey: Um, the way they, um- speak to each other the way they carry

Cris: the

Reegs: way they act is just,

Cris: is not, is, I don't

Reegs: know ... you know,

Sidey: they're constantly getting, like, trouble off the captain 'cause they're just fighting all the time, and he says, "Right, next time you fight, I'm gonna..."

And,

Dan: And the, and the captain ain't no, like- Tiny

Sidey: guy.

Reegs: They're like what? Like macho meatheads basically just going around just kicking the shit out of

Sidey: anything that moves. 'Cause they, they've, they've probably never had a-

Dan: they've never had be- these

Sidey: never had a murder before. They're just- Yeah ... dealing with, like, drunks and stuff, which they would just slap

Reegs: he really made it sound like Hicksville from the beginning when he's going out on the tractor and

like, like- you say, the crime

Sidey: the grounds ... it's, it's very rural setting, yeah.

There's a couple of taverns and, you know, a few bits- That's it ... but there's not much going... This is '80s South Korea, imagine. You know, it's not booming technology yet.

Reegs: And,

Dan: booming technology yet. And, and very sort of human characters in the sense that, you

know,

people that you can imagine them in these little towns, um, having that kind of attitude to just [00:23:00] get the job done.

At one point they're celebrating, they wanna get their picture in the paper. I've just gotta see, um, you know, somebody. He watches somebody, um, with the, let's say, the red underwear guy. Um, and he prote- he sees that he's got the red underwear, but he wants to still give the impression that I can just tell by looking in somebody's eyes.

So he gets them to line up. He knows which one it is, and he just goes, "You." Like, you know, um, and he pulls up his underwear. "Yes." And they're kinda celebrating again that they've got the guy. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, um, time after time they, they just use brutality and, um, a- and it's incompetence as well, 'cause all the, the crime scenes are

Reegs: are just

Dan: too many people around them.

Um, it looks absolutely nuts. Um, but yeah, I, I quite enjoyed it. It was well-directed and, um, and I like the actors. It wasn't my favorite Korean film of all time [00:24:00] though, if I'm gonna be honest, in, in the sense that some of those ones I just think, wow, that's complete head spin and I'll, I've watched that again and again.

Um, and obviously this guy is, uh, you know, an Oscar-winning director, um, and has made some, you know... Parasite obviously was all out of his mind and, and, and fantastic. Um, there wasn't a lot to like about the characters maybe again. You know, those films that I didn't really like anybody within the whole film again.

You know, you'd laugh at them- No ... and everything. You just couldn't... So- It's

Sidey: the lady in

Dan: The, the

Sidey: who actually shows

Cris: her, she gets treated so badly by the rest of them because they're in such a man-oriented world that whatever she says, they're like, "Oh yeah, go give us some more rice. Ha ha."

It's, it's just like she comes up with all these ideas or she'll tell them, "Oh, whenever it rains, this song plays and look at the records." And they're like, "Records. No, it has to be..." It's, it's just

Reegs: like-

Dan: Yeah. Um, is it, [00:25:00] uh, Song Kang-ho, um, is the, um, the actor that we've seen in other Korean films, I think Parasite as well, um, who is brilliant as the, the, the detective and the, the lead guy.

But, um, as I say, not a hugely... I wanted to like him in the beginning, but until then he started just doing some horrible, brutal shit-

Sidey: He never... He... Well, he stops the guy getting killed at the very end, but other than that-

Dan: as you say that- ... he's a total- That, yeah, there, there's that. He's, he's bad, but he's not that bad.

There's just a, a, a kind of a line. He... At one point he buys, um, the, the disabled guy some Nikes, and he goes, the guy goes... He's beaten him up. He's, he's done horrible things to him, like, and, and accused him of murder and trying to get him to confess to it, and he goes, "Look, I bought you some new trainers 'cause your old ones, like, they stunk."

And, um, and he tried to use his old trainers and put into the mud and make a- Create ... a u- create a, a new footprint- Yeah ... that we could say, "Look, your footprint was at the scene." Like, you know. Yeah. Um, and he goes, the, [00:26:00] the other, uh, the Seoul guy goes, "They're not even Nike. They're Nice." They're You know, it's... He said, "You've cheaped out on him." Like, you know. Um, uh, yeah. So there were bits of, uh, humor and black humor in it a- and that, but, um, it was what? Two hours?

Sidey: Just a shade over two hours, yeah.

Dan: a shade over- Yeah ... over two hours.

Cris: you like this? I was very confused about this film, I have to be honest.

Because exactly what you said, is this is a serious... And, and the, the, the suspense bit and the murder bit and, and when this lady go... Like the women, the, the very few scenes where they show where the women are stalked and something happens to them, they're actually... It's like tense music and it's and you're quite on the edge of your seat.

And then on the other side, it almost looks like a parody. Mm. It's almost like a slapstick

where, where they- It's like- ... they, they run after, uh, the suspect and they get in each other's way and there's a cart and, you know, it's just like even when they're investigating, half of the time is surely it's, it's more almost like surely that guy, [00:27:00] even anyone can see that that's not the guy, you know?

Mm. And things like that. So it's almost like a confusing way and it's way too long. Two hours is... You shouldn't wait for two hours to, to get to that ending.

Dan: Where it g- where it gets to the ending where he, you know, they obviously don't catch the guy. I watched it with, uh, with the missus, and she just,

like,

she just slumped, you know.

Oh, no. No, she was not happy

Reegs: with that at all. Well, then that's two endings this week that then are gonna be a bit- Yeah ... interesting to talk about. Yeah.

Sidey: Um, I did enjoy it. Um, it is a bit... It is a little bit too long. It does drag a little bit. Um- And I was waiting, I w- I was waiting for a more clear resolution as well.

I thought, or I thought they were just gonna execute. I did think they might kill that guy at the

Cris: Or the train hits him or, you

Sidey: I was thinking that the guy was gonna go full psycho and tie him to the, to

Reegs: To the tracks,

Sidey: to the tracks maybe or something like that. Um-

Reegs: It is interesting 'cause it not, wasn't at all then really about the serial killer, it was about the culture of police- Yeah,

Sidey: and I had actually no idea watching it [00:28:00] that it was based on real

Reegs: Yeah. And also you have to remember this

Cris: a language that none of us has any idea of any s- word or any sound,

Sidey: like- I get drawn into that as well. I get drawn into like listening to it and going, "God, I can't identify anything."

Cris: you have to rely on the subtitles, and you c- have to read everything.

Whereas if you, uh, l- watch a film in Spanish or in French or whatever, you might at least know a couple of things or- Yeah

Sidey: you know- We did

Cris: it's a different culture, even from their gesture and their mannerism, you still don't really know.

Reegs: You lose a lot of subtlety

Sidey: just- We did not-

Reegs: the transl- Yeah ... this lost in translation

Sidey: caught up with any subtitle dramas this week though. It was all- Okay.

Subtitles were fine. Yeah.

Reegs: that was clear, yeah.

Sidey: But I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. It w- it was made for just a little bit under two, no, 3 million.

Reegs: This was on ITVX, wasn't it?

Sidey: Yeah. Yeah. And the main was on Channel 4. Um- Wasn't Clear buying it? ITVX. Have they bought it? Yeah, yeah, I heard that, yeah. Uh, 2.8 million this cost apparently, dollars.

Mm. Um, and it's done over 12 million-

Reegs: Yeah. I,

Cris: I thought it would make money. [00:29:00] It's, it's not... Look, it's not bad, it's just a little bit lopsided in, in-

Sidey: could tell like it's one of his early films and he's refined it, you know, as his, his craft has gone on. But still I think this is good and I, I was- Yeah, it's well-directed

I would give it, I would give it a strong recommend personally. Strong recommend. Yeah.

Cris: yeah, strong.

Reegs: Yeah.

Memories of Murder

Sidey: [00:00:00] this is the start of Dan week. Yeah. It's not a themed week about Dan- No ... but it's your choices.

Dan: Correct. Um, I thought it was about time we did a South American film again, so we went South Korea.

Sidey: Yep. Yep. Bong Joon-ho. Yeah.

Dan: Um- We've done

Sidey: Parasite.

Dan: Well,

we all went out for a big

Sidey: one.

That was right after lockdown, wasn't it? Yeah. It was the, the first outing. We went to the Savoy Hotel.

Reegs: We did. That was great.

Sidey: cinema thing

Dan: Memories of Murder was his 2003 kinda neo-noir crime thriller. Breakout. Breakout. Um,

Sidey: breakout

Reegs: and- So prior to, a long time prior to Parasite- Yeah ... Snowpiercer, I think was his.

Okja we did for the pod.

Sidey: Oh, yeah. Um- This is kind of loosely based, inspired by real... 'Cause it's a serial killer film. Yeah. A real serial killer, um- Events ... what happened

Reegs: in- In South Korea. [00:01:00] Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Sidey: The Hwanggseong serial murders. All right.

Dan: A- and it's kinda set in and around the, the late '80s, um, when South Korea was still under military rule.

Um-

Reegs: Okay ... and- And we explored that in some other movies that we've watched, right? Yeah. Um, I'm thinking of that one that Chris had us watch that was about the fall of South Korea in

Sidey: Oh, yeah. That was really good

Reegs: Um, so we know a little bit about the history there.

Sidey: We're all over- And, and this was- We're all over

Dan: was- South Korea

this was set out in the sticks. So

Sidey: is a rural, um, police cop squad. Mm-hmm. Um, perhaps not, um- equipped technically and experience-wise for a serial killer investigation because they find the first body turns up-

Dan: Well, it,

it it starts, doesn't it- It does ... with a guy on the back of a- Tractor ... a tractor.

Sidey: Tractor Boys.

Dan: Having a cigarette, just you're thinking, "Oh, where he's going?" It's just between two rice paddy, um- [00:02:00] He's the police cop

he's the police cop, and he's just cruising down, and he's terribly relaxed about everything. Um, and- There's

Sidey: a body in a kinda drainage, um, flue channel type thing, and the crime scene's already been, like, completely mangled.

There's farmers there. There's kids playing around. They c- would they shout after him like, "Shitcar," or something? Yeah. They, like, give him abuse. And then they find one basically clear, um, footprint, and as he's trying to, like, clear the scene, he's like, "Right, you lot fuck off. You get back. You get back." Uh, the tractor just goes towards it, and he's like, "No, no, no, no, no."

The tractor just goes over this one bit of evidence. Oh. So it's, like, a total flummox.

Reegs: Oh. There's people

Dan: are picking up clothes in the field and just, like, swinging them over their heads and things that had obviously been ripped off this, um, this poor young girl who, um-

Sidey: been r- it's a rape

Dan: yeah.

Reegs: It's, it's- Oh,

Dan: a rape-murder. Um, and they are, um, just not equipped or [00:03:00] anywhere near, um, able to, to do what needs to be done, and

Sidey: You get the feeling and, and they kind of show you that if something has gone down, they'll just find someone and-

Cris: he

Reegs: has this-

Sidey: them like

Reegs: has

Cris: thing at the beginning with the-- I can't remember if he tells the police commissioner or someone in the room when he's in,

Sidey: Is it the short guy?

Cris: No. I don't know. Yeah, there's the police commissioner where he's like, "Oh, I've got a sixth sense. I know, uh,

Sidey: it's all on hunch, isn't it?

Reegs: Yeah. He's like,

Cris: know already.

My gut tells me." He's like, "Well, look at those two. One is the killer. The other one is the brother of the victim. Which one is which?" And he just looks. You can see he looks. Hmm. As in, as if he would just

Sidey: doesn't need evidence. Yeah. He's just got a gut. He have a good feeling for it.

I can

Dan: by the look of their eyes,

Reegs: Okay

Dan: Um, and that will come back over the, the course of the film a

Cris: Because then we-- I think the next scene is when the, the guy's walking on the

Reegs: I don't need evidence, basically. Pretty much. And

Dan: got a gut feeling. The guy

Cris: walks from the, on the street, and [00:04:00] he's... After the first, uh, killing.

And there's a woman that walks in front of

Sidey: Yeah, you think he's stalking

Cris: Yeah. And they-- she's really panicking. He's there trying to help her, and then it turns out that they have a, he has a fight with this police officer from the rural area, and then it turns

Reegs: out- Well,

Sidey: has such a freakout, she kind of falls down into a ditch, doesn't she?

And he goes to help her, but she's panicking, and it looks like, you know, we've just had one- Yeah ... fatality. Yeah. It looks like... And it, it turns out this is the, this, is this the guy from Seoul? Yes. Yeah. So this is the more experienced policeman that's getting bussed in to sort of support them and help them out.

Okay. Um, but he's giving a fucking right dusting up. He

Reegs: up.

Dan: he comes in off, off, like, the top ropes, like of

Sidey: he does. He does a flying

Dan: flying kick ... of a flying kick into him, and he kicks him down, and he punches him. And then eventually, next sort of scene, they're driving along in the car, and he says, "Well, you know, you should've said something."

He goes, "Like, you bloody didn't give me any chance to say anything. Like, I'm, I'm just trying to find the way how to get to you, and you sh- what's your first reaction? It's just nuts, like, you know, that you're coming in with this flying [00:05:00] kick." Um, but they're trying to fabricate evidence and, and having really violent methods i-

Sidey: in how they're doing it.

Well, there's, the, first of all, there's the- And then- ... there's a, there's an MO. The killer's got an MO. He, um, he will bind the women in a certain way with their bra, I think, or- Yeah,

Dan: their brassiere

Sidey: So the hands behind the back, and then he puts their knickers over their head, um, rapes them, um, and they're always-

you know, it's just like, there's other things as they, the investigation comes out that it takes them ages, doesn't it? What, I think the lady figures out, out about the song. There's certain other things that they just don't fucking have a clue about. Um, so they, they clash because the, uh, the original f- um, detective, uh, that's Park, isn't

Reegs: they have things like forensics and stuff or- No.

Sidey: only up to a point. They c-

Cris: have only the autopsy, the autopsy people, but...

Sidey: So they, they, they test for semen and that, that

Reegs: they'd be, it

Cris: this is

Reegs: And this is in the '80s, right? That,

Sidey: that has to be sent to the US.

Cris: is in the '80s, so th-that

Sidey: Yeah

Cris: you have to remember

Dan: They've [00:06:00] heard of the technology, but they haven't got any of that kind of,

Sidey: But I thought that Asians would be like well ahead on the

Cris: Not back then.

Reegs: Semiconductors, that's their

Dan: of... But,

Reegs: Yeah, but, um-

Sidey: but they clash, don't they? 'Cause Park is, like we said, he's just like, "Well, I think it's blah," and you know, "So therefore that's good enough." Whereas this other guy's like, "No, no, we need like procedure and evidence and, you know, like an audit trail of stuff."

Yeah. So they just clash and like pretty violently

Dan: they also need somebody who to pin this on, and they f- they find a young disabled, um, man, um- Kwang-ho. Yeah, Kwang-ho, who's, um, who's got a scar, and he's, um, he's got his name, Park, through, um, a lady friend that he goes to visit and says, "Oh, well, sh- he was always hanging around, um, saying that that girl that died was pretty."

And that's enough for him to- Yeah

Reegs: kind of- The hunch is enough

Dan: hunch is enough. The hunch is enough. He finds him playing arcade games. That's it.

Sidey: less than a hunch, it's just convenient.

Dan: It's just convenient, and he's a re- it's, you... If, if you thought at this [00:07:00] point, oh, this... He's k- he's a kind of, you know, he's just a bit incompetent.

He's trying his best, though. He's... You, you're looking for, uh, someone to, you know, the detective to like. Um, and we've seen him in other things, haven't we? Um,

Sidey: Is he in

Dan: way- Have you not seen this one? Yeah. The way, the way that he goes to treat this, this young disabled guy without any, um, evidence, he's just an asshole.

He's just a real asshole, and he's... They're, they're just trying... Him and his partner, um, was it K- Yong-koo? Um, just try to, um- Beat a

Cris: beat him

Dan: out of him ... beat a confession out of him. And telling him what to say. He's putting the recorder on stop, pause. "No, you meant this, didn't you?" Start up again. Tell him he's getting it wrong

Sidey: tied her up with the thing. And yeah, yeah. And it's- Oh ... like, it's grim. It's really awful. Yeah. What,

Reegs: what have we seen of the killer so far? Nothing. Nothing really. Nothing. No. No. Okay. We do

Sidey: see, it's quite, it's quite good in here, with the next victim kind of running along.

Reegs: Yeah. But [00:08:00] when, when we're seeing these things, are we just what? He's in shadow or something or-

Sidey: No, it's really good 'cause he... It's, um, the woman's sort of running along, and it's raining. Um-

Cris: always raining when these

Sidey: clear this is his pattern. The woman tends to be wearing red, it's raining, and then there's something else that comes along.

Um, but the, the only time we ever actually see... We don't see the murder, we just see her get grabbed as she's running along, like looking behind, look behind, and the guy just jumps out. And you just see a-

Cris: from the rice paddy, he

Sidey: from the right ... from the right pa- yeah. You see his face and you go, "Whoa."

And, uh, yeah, it's quite creepy. Uh, more, more so for her, I'd imagine. Yeah. Yeah.

Cris: And then again, there's, there's another one discovered, and there's another... And, and now the pressure increases, but there's also the pressure from the public because the father of this kid is, like, beside himself. "It's not him. He didn't do it."

Dan: my son's innocent. He's, he's been strung up for this. He's been taken down."

Sidey: The guy from Seoul is like, "He- this guy's not capable. Like, he's just not-" Yeah. "He's just... Look at him. There's just [00:09:00] no way."

Dan: this was a complex kind of murder Well, he,

Cris: "Look at his fingers." He had, like, stumpy- Right ... you

Reegs: know-

Sidey: wouldn't be able... 'Cause there's a specific, it's like a triple knot. There's a

Cris: with a knot that basically he ties their hands and their legs behind their back, and it's like a three-way knot.

He's like, "Look at his hand and his fingers. He will never be able to do that." Plus, on this, that, whatever. So he has- Yeah ... he has a lot of holes in their theory. Yeah. And they're just sat there with this guy- kid upside down-

Sidey: they string him up ... hanging upside down-

Reegs: in his pants.

Cris: and they're like, "So what? You're telling me he's innocent?"

He's like, "Yeah, f- let him go." It's

Sidey: But

Reegs: they do

Dan: take him into the forest where it happened, get him to start digging and say, "What are you doing?"

He goes, "Oh," and he's just laughing, you know, 'cause he's, he's not, um... Let's say he's, nobody's looking out for him, very vulnerable, and he's, he thinks it's a game, you know. "Oh, just digging." He goes, "No, we're digging your grave," like, you know, and he gets all scared. They're saying, "Look, we know that you did it."

And he starts giving him, them information that- He probably has

Sidey: something

he,

Dan: which proves that he must have seen it. For them, it, it proves that he did it, that [00:10:00] they're on the right hunch-like. Yeah ... you know. But i- he, he's kinda talking in the third person, "I saw," and then he did this, and then he did that, and he gives details that only somebody- He

Reegs: was

Cris: saw him ... she was tied like this. She had her knickers on her head, but it wasn't like, "I put the knickers on her head."

So...

Dan: Yeah. So, um, he, he knows something, but it's, they're certainly, you know, just trying to pin everything onto him. Um, but he does eventually, um, the,

you

Sidey: there's the final-

Dan: sense kind of prevails, and they realize it, it's not him.

Sidey: Yeah, and the final piece of the kind of, um, killer's ritual i- is a song, and it's Kwon Kyok, the female officer who re- deduces this.

There's a, there's a request line, and there's this really obscure song gets requested on the same night that all these-

Reegs: the killings have happened

Sidey: yeah ... murders have happened. So now they're, they're listening out. And there's later on where they're all having a barney in the, um, thing, and she's like, "Stop, stop, stop."

The song's on. They're like, [00:11:00] "Fuck." Yeah. Something's happening. There's gonna be another one in there. The, the guy looks out the window and he's like, "Fuck, it's raining." You

Dan: so.

And she's totally underappreciated. She's probably the best one of the lot, to

Sidey: she's the only one

Dan: the only one- Even the guy from Seoul isn't knocking it out the park, is he? He, he's better.

Well,

Sidey: he starts to fall into their ways, isn't he? Yeah. 'Cause it, there's a role reversal when they, they s- think they might have the guy, don't they? Yeah. Later on. There's a guy that

Cris: they,

Sidey: that they're taking shelter at one point for some rain, and t- and there's two girls, just, like, real dead young schoolgirls going past, and they're like, "Come and, uh, just get in here for a minute," 'cause it's, like, hideous storm.

Um, and they start talking about, um, this story that they've heard about a guy who lives under the well or something in the, at the back of the school, and he's the one who's been doing all this killing. So they look into that. Um, and they, eventually they find a survivor- Yeah ... of, um, this guy who maybe it was his first go and he wasn't quite at it.

And, um, someone's got away, still, like, [00:12:00] horrifically traumatized, and they're able to get a few more details. They don't know

Cris: The hands are soft.

Sidey: got soft hands is the thing. Yeah. Yeah. Um-

Reegs: so he doesn't work in the fields So it's not labor And

then

Sidey: he's not a laborer, no.

Reegs: they go

Cris: back to the two village ones.

They go back to the forest just to kind of go back to the crime scene. Then they hear a noise, they hide. The sole guy comes in, he hi- he hears another noise, someone else comes in, and you see a guy, he comes in, takes a pair of,

Sidey: He pulls a bra out

Cris: He takes a bra out of his pants. He puts it on the floor.

Sidey: know is what is used to tie

Reegs: Yeah ... the girl. There

Cris: how

Sidey: like, "Oh, here we go." He

Cris: his pants down. He's wearing

Sidey: Women's knickers ... pink, pink knickers-

Cris: women's knickers, and then he starts having a tug.

Sidey: He just lays out some pants and a bra and he

Dan: In the field. Yeah ... fucking off. And the, all the police are looking at him.

Sidey: just some guy who's got a weird thing.

And then,

Reegs: And then, is that it? Honestly. And then,

Cris: Yeah.

Two people walking-

Reegs: in and- They run after him in the forest

that's

amazing

Sidey: breaks a twig, and then he looks around and he's like, "Uh," and runs off. And they're like, "He obviously [00:13:00] doesn't wanna get pinched for having a wank in a..."

Dan: the..." But they do, they do find him, and, um,

Sidey: It's a really long chase.

It's really good.

Cris: and- And they start torturing this guy as well.

Dan: Yeah. They p- they try and pin it on him, but, uh, neighbors

Reegs: the bra thing would make you a little bit, um-

Sidey: And then- Yeah. I mean, I mean the first thing you're like, "Uh-oh." And then he's like, "Well, no, obviously I didn't wanna get caught wanking in a field."

Yeah. And he is- It's embarrassing

Dan: you realize that his wife is really ill. He's looking after her.

He's probably just gone there for like the kids are at home. They live in like a, a one room. He's desperate to

Cris: what he said. He's like, "I've got my wife and kids at home. I can't do that at home." And when you... When they, the police goes to his house, it's basically a studio.

And mind you, this is rural Korea, but it looks shit. Yeah. Yeah. Like really

Dan: He's got a few, he's got a few sort of porno mags and, and things. Yeah. Um, but, um, not anything else that would indicate that he's the, the killer. But they still, you know, really beat the shit out of him and, um- They're

Reegs: clueless.

They're not chasing evidence really

Sidey: They, [00:14:00] they do. They, well, they've- They're

Dan: trying to beat

Sidey: it out of him ... they've found out

Dan: he's ready to admit it, to be honest, after the beatings. Yeah. He's going, "Oh,

Reegs: people will say

Sidey: Like people say. They,

Dan: Oh, I did that. Yeah, sorry I did that.

Yeah, yeah."

Sidey: But they do find out that it's, it's gotta be some guy, probably, probably a professional guy who works in an office 'cause he's got these soft hands and, and they do... Uh, the, the trail eventually will lead them to this clerk. Yeah.

Um-

Cris: Well,

the song plays, and then they call straight away to the radio station because the only way to request is through a card. Yeah. Through a signed card with a name and an address. Okay. You can't just call. It wasn't that

Reegs: easy. So he left himself a very unique calling card.

Sidey: Literal calling card, yeah.

Yeah.

Cris: Yeah.

Reegs: Yeah.

Dan: And when they went round to his house, um, he's, he's smarter than any of the others. Like, he just will not admit this. He's not having

Reegs: And they've got nothing.

Sidey: doesn't he? He just, he's very,

Reegs: They've got nothing except the phone, the, the music

Dan: military. Yeah. And- He's also former military.

Yeah. And they- In the army and- A- and he knows and, and people know that the cops [00:15:00] beat confessions out of people, and he says, "You're not gonna do it out of me." Like, you know, you're not... And he really does convince you that

Sidey: he- There is no evidence

Dan: no evidence. It, it, it may not be h- So It may not be him.

Sidey: coincidental

Reegs: of just beating the shit out of people are not gonna work on this guy. No. He's not intimidated

Sidey: in any- But the, the,

Reegs: guy from Seoul- And he can defend

Sidey: who's the one who's come in to bring some method and some, you know- Mm. He's starting to fucking lose it. He, he really believes that this, this is the guy. Um, but it's circumstantial. He's just, he just requested a song. So what? He just likes that

Reegs: It's not enough evidence on its own. It's, it's particularly,

Dan: um, bad at, um, at one point where, um, there's a- another murder and it's of a girl that the guy from Seoul has, uh, a young schoolgirl and he's put a plaster on her or something and you've realized that you're gonna see that plaster on a dead body in a little while's ti- time.

Um- Yeah ... and he, he properly loses it after this. This is all in and around, um, the, [00:16:00] the, um, original, um, like culprit or the original l- guy who got accused, the vulnerable guy. He puts a, a piece of wood with a nail through one of the detective's legs that's been beating him up.

Sidey: There's a massive brawl, isn't there?

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Big brawl. Um, and he just freaks out. Um, and he ends up whacking, um, this guy and it's got a nail in it.

Sidey: A rusty nail, I think. Yeah. They,

Dan: they, um, they run after him. Um,

Sidey: he ends- 'Cause they, they do think-

Dan: He knows

Sidey: something ... he's seen it. He probably, you know, 'cause he just hangs around, he sort of lurks around 'cause he doesn't have anywhere to go or whatever, and he's seen something and they need to get some detail out of him but after he's done this he runs off, doesn't he?

Dan: Yeah, and he ends up getting hit by a

Sidey: He gets mowed down.

Reegs: right. Blimey.

Dan: so that line of inquiry is gone as well. The guy who got the, um, the guy who got the, the bad leg, um, he's...

The next day he's pushing, um, the, the car along the road and [00:17:00] everything. It's not starting and, um,

You

know, I saw and they look at it. Anyway, he ends up losing his leg- Oh right ... because,

Sidey: His trademark was to

Dan: Do like

Sidey: She was like 12 or something. That

Reegs: him. Oh,

Sidey: sort of- Yeah ... yeah, his violent trait. She was like losing his leg.

Dan: Um, and still the murders go on and still the, um, the,

Reegs: murders there been now?

Dan: So four. Four.

Reegs: Four. Okay.

Dan: Um, and

Reegs: So have we got any insight into his...

Is his motivations at-

Sidey: No, that's the thing about him.

He's just a dude. He's got n- he's

Cris: quite stoic as well. He works in a control room at the factory.

He doesn't really give anything away. He goes and eats by himself. He just sits there. He's very handsome.

Sidey: We don't know anything about what is motive other than he's just fixated on power trip over women.

Yeah. But he's just completely ordinary guy. He's- And this is the thing ... no other

Cris: On the night that he, he's under surveillance, and on the night that he's out for dinner, uh, our guy from Seoul is watching him.

He falls asleep, and he just sees him going in the, in a [00:18:00] bus, and his car won't start, and that's the night where he kills that young girl.

Dan: The schoolgirl with the plaster.

Reegs: after that

Cris: they go to the funeral, and he just loses it. And he's like, "I know who did it. It's that guy." And he... Because, uh, uh, meanwhile, they have a DNA sample from a sperm, and he, they said the only way we can get this is if we send it to America.

Reegs: Yeah.

Cris: And every day or every other day, they keep calling

Sidey: waiting.

Waiting, waiting,

Cris: "Have we got this DNA sample? Can we get this DNA sample?" He goes and goes to his house, picks the suspect up, beats him up, and-

Sidey: He throws him down on some train lines. Yeah. And I thought he was gonna, like, leave him to another one to get hit by a train. Yeah. But he, he pulls the gun on him, and he's gonna execute him.

This is the guy from Seoul, who's the one that's supposed to be the- Yeah, yeah ... the, the legit policeman. And the original one- And the other guy, role reverser, comes down. He's like, "No, no." And he's like, "I've got this, I've

Cris: got this." I've got the results,

Sidey: the results, and the results are inconclusive.

Ah. So they've still got fuck all. And,

Reegs: what the fuck?

Sidey: mate, he still [00:19:00] pulls the gun on him again. You think, "Oh, he's actually gonna fucking do it. He's gonna execute him."

Dan: He does. He shoots, he shoots, but he,

Sidey: but he- He shoots. The- 'cause he's-

Dan: misses

Sidey: Park's let him go, and he's sort of gone down the tunnel a little bit.

Yeah. And he sh- he shoots, misses him, or maybe hits him, but he still gets away. Um-

Cris: he's got his hands at the behind his back with the handcuffs. Yeah. But he just gets away.

Reegs: Okay. Um, so- What, with, with his hand- the

Sidey: that's it. It's unresolved. It is

Dan: It's unresolved, and then it goes-

Sidey: bit ends.

It goes, it jumps to 2003. Park, um- 10 years later ... maybe because of that, is no longer a detective. He's married with kids, and he's a salesman. Yeah. Um, and he's commuting, and he stops off at the, um, the site of the original... Not the original murder, but the original one that started the, the drainage

Reegs: The trai- Yeah, yeah.

Sidey: And he just goes, and he sort of looks in there again, and it's, you know, this sort of thing obviously eating away at him, and he's just sort of looking and he's like, "Phew." And a little kiddie comes along and says, "What are you doing, mister?" Um, he's like, "I'm just looking for something, but probably nothing there."

And she says, "Oh, I've saw another guy [00:20:00] here not so long ago." Um- And he's like, "All right."

Reegs: All right. Who was that?

Sidey: yeah. What was he doing? And she said, "Oh, he said he, he'd been here, he'd done something here a long time ago." And he's like, "Oh, w- fucking hell, what does he look like?" She's, "Well, just-"

Reegs: Just some dude Just a normal guy, yeah.

Sidey: a normal guy, yeah. And that's it. And he just stares. It's a, a just a blank sort of stare right into the camera, and he's just, like, lost, like-

Dan: Guy's still

Reegs: Still no closer to finding him.

Yeah. They beat up a load of people. So many, so many mistakes made. People died. So many- People maimed.

Dan: got away with murder.

Reegs: And a guy got away with murder and carried on. He's,

Sidey: In real life, um, through advances in, um, DNA and all that sort of stuff, they did catch the guy, um, Lee Choon-jae. Um, he later confessed, hopefully not through violent, uh, coercion- Yeah, hopefully not ... um, to multiple murders.

Um, but the statute of limitations had expired for these crimes.

Reegs: Serious? So-

Sidey: Yeah.

Reegs: the [00:21:00] statute of limitations- So he got away ... is there a statute of limitations on murder in, in England? I don't think there

Sidey: I wouldn't have thought so, no. I don't think so. But, um, yeah, apparently, uh, in, but there, so it says.

South Korea.

Reegs: South Korea. Wow. Fuck me.

Sidey: So it's fucking bleak.

Reegs: like Yeah. And this time- How many did he do?

Sidey: do? Uh, I don't know the real life guy- Real life ... 'cause we don't know, 'cause he, uh, he identified some,

Reegs: Did he carry on in, through the '80s and '90s

Dan: it's said that he confessed to ki- killing 14 people. Um, and, um-

Reegs: that's more than you

Dan: Yeah. Um, I, I announced that a man, Lee Chun-jae, had been identified as suspect in the killings. Um, and yeah, he's, he was, um, multiple rapes as well

Sidey: Wow.

Reegs: blimey.

Sidey: So they do... Obviously the, the crimes, and obviously that's,

Dan: like,

Sidey: really horrendous, but they play the police force almost for laughs at times. Yeah.

Like really dark- Yeah ... black humor of, like, these guys are just complete [00:22:00] goons.

Reegs: Like, Yeah ...idiots.

Sidey: Um, the way they, um- speak to each other the way they carry

Cris: the

Reegs: way they act is just,

Cris: is not, is, I don't

Reegs: know ... you know,

Sidey: they're constantly getting, like, trouble off the captain 'cause they're just fighting all the time, and he says, "Right, next time you fight, I'm gonna..."

And,

Dan: And the, and the captain ain't no, like- Tiny

Sidey: guy.

Reegs: They're like what? Like macho meatheads basically just going around just kicking the shit out of

Sidey: anything that moves. 'Cause they, they've, they've probably never had a-

Dan: they've never had be- these

Sidey: never had a murder before. They're just- Yeah ... dealing with, like, drunks and stuff, which they would just slap

Reegs: he really made it sound like Hicksville from the beginning when he's going out on the tractor and

like, like- you say, the crime

Sidey: the grounds ... it's, it's very rural setting, yeah.

There's a couple of taverns and, you know, a few bits- That's it ... but there's not much going... This is '80s South Korea, imagine. You know, it's not booming technology yet.

Reegs: And,

Dan: booming technology yet. And, and very sort of human characters in the sense that, you

know,

people that you can imagine them in these little towns, um, having that kind of attitude to just [00:23:00] get the job done.

At one point they're celebrating, they wanna get their picture in the paper. I've just gotta see, um, you know, somebody. He watches somebody, um, with the, let's say, the red underwear guy. Um, and he prote- he sees that he's got the red underwear, but he wants to still give the impression that I can just tell by looking in somebody's eyes.

So he gets them to line up. He knows which one it is, and he just goes, "You." Like, you know, um, and he pulls up his underwear. "Yes." And they're kinda celebrating again that they've got the guy. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, um, time after time they, they just use brutality and, um, a- and it's incompetence as well, 'cause all the, the crime scenes are

Reegs: are just

Dan: too many people around them.

Um, it looks absolutely nuts. Um, but yeah, I, I quite enjoyed it. It was well-directed and, um, and I like the actors. It wasn't my favorite Korean film of all time [00:24:00] though, if I'm gonna be honest, in, in the sense that some of those ones I just think, wow, that's complete head spin and I'll, I've watched that again and again.

Um, and obviously this guy is, uh, you know, an Oscar-winning director, um, and has made some, you know... Parasite obviously was all out of his mind and, and, and fantastic. Um, there wasn't a lot to like about the characters maybe again. You know, those films that I didn't really like anybody within the whole film again.

You know, you'd laugh at them- No ... and everything. You just couldn't... So- It's

Sidey: the lady in

Dan: The, the

Sidey: who actually shows

Cris: her, she gets treated so badly by the rest of them because they're in such a man-oriented world that whatever she says, they're like, "Oh yeah, go give us some more rice. Ha ha."

It's, it's just like she comes up with all these ideas or she'll tell them, "Oh, whenever it rains, this song plays and look at the records." And they're like, "Records. No, it has to be..." It's, it's just

Reegs: like-

Dan: Yeah. Um, is it, [00:25:00] uh, Song Kang-ho, um, is the, um, the actor that we've seen in other Korean films, I think Parasite as well, um, who is brilliant as the, the, the detective and the, the lead guy.

But, um, as I say, not a hugely... I wanted to like him in the beginning, but until then he started just doing some horrible, brutal shit-

Sidey: He never... He... Well, he stops the guy getting killed at the very end, but other than that-

Dan: as you say that- ... he's a total- That, yeah, there, there's that. He's, he's bad, but he's not that bad.

There's just a, a, a kind of a line. He... At one point he buys, um, the, the disabled guy some Nikes, and he goes, the guy goes... He's beaten him up. He's, he's done horrible things to him, like, and, and accused him of murder and trying to get him to confess to it, and he goes, "Look, I bought you some new trainers 'cause your old ones, like, they stunk."

And, um, and he tried to use his old trainers and put into the mud and make a- Create ... a u- create a, a new footprint- Yeah ... that we could say, "Look, your footprint was at the scene." Like, you know. Yeah. Um, and he goes, the, [00:26:00] the other, uh, the Seoul guy goes, "They're not even Nike. They're Nice." They're You know, it's... He said, "You've cheaped out on him." Like, you know. Um, uh, yeah. So there were bits of, uh, humor and black humor in it a- and that, but, um, it was what? Two hours?

Sidey: Just a shade over two hours, yeah.

Dan: a shade over- Yeah ... over two hours.

Cris: you like this? I was very confused about this film, I have to be honest.

Because exactly what you said, is this is a serious... And, and the, the, the suspense bit and the murder bit and, and when this lady go... Like the women, the, the very few scenes where they show where the women are stalked and something happens to them, they're actually... It's like tense music and it's and you're quite on the edge of your seat.

And then on the other side, it almost looks like a parody. Mm. It's almost like a slapstick

where, where they- It's like- ... they, they run after, uh, the suspect and they get in each other's way and there's a cart and, you know, it's just like even when they're investigating, half of the time is surely it's, it's more almost like surely that guy, [00:27:00] even anyone can see that that's not the guy, you know?

Mm. And things like that. So it's almost like a confusing way and it's way too long. Two hours is... You shouldn't wait for two hours to, to get to that ending.

Dan: Where it g- where it gets to the ending where he, you know, they obviously don't catch the guy. I watched it with, uh, with the missus, and she just,

like,

she just slumped, you know.

Oh, no. No, she was not happy

Reegs: with that at all. Well, then that's two endings this week that then are gonna be a bit- Yeah ... interesting to talk about. Yeah.

Sidey: Um, I did enjoy it. Um, it is a bit... It is a little bit too long. It does drag a little bit. Um- And I was waiting, I w- I was waiting for a more clear resolution as well.

I thought, or I thought they were just gonna execute. I did think they might kill that guy at the

Cris: Or the train hits him or, you

Sidey: I was thinking that the guy was gonna go full psycho and tie him to the, to

Reegs: To the tracks,

Sidey: to the tracks maybe or something like that. Um-

Reegs: It is interesting 'cause it not, wasn't at all then really about the serial killer, it was about the culture of police- Yeah,

Sidey: and I had actually no idea watching it [00:28:00] that it was based on real

Reegs: Yeah. And also you have to remember this

Cris: a language that none of us has any idea of any s- word or any sound,

Sidey: like- I get drawn into that as well. I get drawn into like listening to it and going, "God, I can't identify anything."

Cris: you have to rely on the subtitles, and you c- have to read everything.

Whereas if you, uh, l- watch a film in Spanish or in French or whatever, you might at least know a couple of things or- Yeah

Sidey: you know- We did

Cris: it's a different culture, even from their gesture and their mannerism, you still don't really know.

Reegs: You lose a lot of subtlety

Sidey: just- We did not-

Reegs: the transl- Yeah ... this lost in translation

Sidey: caught up with any subtitle dramas this week though. It was all- Okay.

Subtitles were fine. Yeah.

Reegs: that was clear, yeah.

Sidey: But I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. It w- it was made for just a little bit under two, no, 3 million.

Reegs: This was on ITVX, wasn't it?

Sidey: Yeah. Yeah. And the main was on Channel 4. Um- Wasn't Clear buying it? ITVX. Have they bought it? Yeah, yeah, I heard that, yeah. Uh, 2.8 million this cost apparently, dollars.

Mm. Um, and it's done over 12 million-

Reegs: Yeah. I,

Cris: I thought it would make money. [00:29:00] It's, it's not... Look, it's not bad, it's just a little bit lopsided in, in-

Sidey: could tell like it's one of his early films and he's refined it, you know, as his, his craft has gone on. But still I think this is good and I, I was- Yeah, it's well-directed

I would give it, I would give it a strong recommend personally. Strong recommend. Yeah.

Cris: yeah, strong.

Reegs: Yeah.