Midweek Mention... Saipan

INTRO: Saipan

Dan: We are recording

Sidey: We are now recording, yeah. Outside? We're outside and

Dan: Is it the first time we've ever recorded outside?

Sidey: it is, yeah.

Dan: I mean, we've recorded in a few different locations over the years. Um-

Cris: But never outside.

Sidey: But

Dan: outside. I've... We've been at Sidewell Towers.

Sidey: Yeah.

Dan: The Man Cave, obviously, has been a, the steady venue for the past few years. Where else have we done?

Cris: Project 52.

Dan: Project 52, yeah.

Cris: done that.

Dan: We've been away on tour

Sidey: did one in Pete's, um, spare roomy thing, his garage annexy thing. Okay, yeah.

Dan: we've done online

Sidey: We did loads of online in,

Dan: But the first time outside in the,

Cris: the,

Dan: Man Cave Manor really, in the, uh-

Cris: In the Man Cave Garden, yeah

Dan: in the garden, where we've got a giant echium with, I don't know, a million bees. Yeah. And Sadie's got his Save the Bees T-shirt on, which is particularly apt. Yes. Um, are we all rocking Casios? I know you've got an

Sidey: No, I've

Cris: my smartwatch

Sidey: today.

Dan: on. I've got my smart watch on today. I've gone for the GBD500. Um, but it's glorious actually. We've had the hottest day of the year- Yeah ... 34 degrees.

Cris: I've been to the... I've been at the beach today.

Dan: Too hot? No. No. No.

Cris: No. Loving it. Yes, man. Oh, look, I'm from Romania, right? We've... Uh, I've been here for what, 12, 13 year, or... 12, 13 years now, right? We don't have proper summer in Jersey. When we... Like, rarely, right, a full summer. Back home, we have four... I have four seasons. You have cold in the winter, snow. You get spring, proper spring. Then you get summer, scorching. Then you get autumn, leaves go, and rain, and all that. And then, and it goes again. In Jersey, you get six months of rain and wind.

Dan: Yeah.

Cris: Now that it's this glorious sunshine and we can wear flip-flops and just

Dan: Yeah, no, I'm not, I'm not complaining about it, but-

Cris: says, "Oh, it's too hot," look, I get it, you have to, you have to go to work. You have to... But guess what? So do people in Spain. So do people in Morocco. So do people in Italy. So do people in Portugal. When we go on holiday to Portugal, we think, "Oh my God, it's lovely." Yeah. Because you don't have to go to work. You're just on

Dan: holiday. Well, it's been particularly nice 'cause it is a bank holiday weekend. Exactly. Um, and we've obviously had a lot of the, the football on, which we're not gonna p- talk about too much

Sidey: in-

Dan: in regards to um, the sad, sad times of the mighty, mighty Hammers being relegated to divisions below us. Um- I

Cris: see you've even taken the two hammers off the outside bar.

Dan: was... Yeah, that wasn't me. Um, but yeah, it's all a signal, isn't it- Yeah ... to sad times. Um, this movie that we're reviewing, Saipan, I mean- Yeah ... sad times in Irish football in many ways.

Cris: ways. Yes, I would say so.

Dan: I watched the, um, the trailer of this Saipan, so this is the story of- Well,

Cris: nearly nominated it a couple of

Dan: times. Yeah. Well, I- So

Cris: why I thought I'll just put it on so

Dan: I'd seen it. Um- we

Sidey: in the run up to the World Cup. We're in the run

Dan: up to the World Cup.

Sidey: apt.

Dan: Um, the England squad- Mm-hmm ... just got- Yeah ... announced. The Romanian squad didn't have to get announced. No.

Sidey: Republic are in it, aren't

Dan: No. Um, we've got the, the, the Scots are the only team that made it, I think-

Cris: Yeah. And

Dan: home nation ... nation, St. George.

Sidey: And the winner, the, the eventual winners, yeah. The home. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so this is... Most people... Well, if you follow football you'll, you'll have known this story, I suppose, if you're a certain

Dan: certain age. Yeah, and if you like Steve Coogan, you may have been aware of the fact that he made this film recently

Sidey: Yeah. T- this is 2025. It's Saipan, and it is the story of the Republic's build-up to Japan and Korea.

Cris: Yeah, 2002 World Cup.

Sidey: And the bust-up between Roy Keane and Mick McCarthy.

Cris: How do you pronounce the actor's name?

Sidey: I was gonna ask exactly that.

Dan: Is

Cris: it... Because it's Eanna, but... Or

Sidey: Ian? Is it Ian-na? Ian? Yan- Yana? E-A-N-N-A. But there's an accent

Cris: But there's an accent on the E.

Sidey: At first, um- I apologize

Cris: to any Irish

Sidey: people. Well, just call him Roy Keane, 'cause I didn't know how to pronounce him either. Um, at, at first, when I first saw him on the screen, I was like, "Oh, don't like him as a, as a Roy Keane proxy. He doesn't... He's not doing it for me." But he grew... He really did grow for me. Yeah. When he started getting angry, then he, he was, he was good. Yeah. Um, so we get... First of all, like, they, they tell you straight away, 'cause you get a load of newsreel footage about the incident. The actual, you know, when the news broke at the time. Yeah. It's the real stuff, uh, interspersed with some other stuff. Um, but essentially telling you that there's, there's a bit of fallout, and Roy Keane's, like, been the World Cup off. The biggest tournament you can play in as a footballer.

Dan: At the peak of his powers, really

Sidey: Yeah, yeah. And he's jibbed it.

Cris: Well,

Sidey: in,

Cris: in very simple words, yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Sidey: And...

Dan: but we, we're gonna now explore the reasons why But it goes all the way

Sidey: It goes back.

Dan: Yeah

Cris: When he's playing in a field in

Sidey: in a street. So that shitty old football that we all used to kick around in the street. Yeah, yeah. It's got virtually no leather on it, or no plastic left on it, but you're still just kicking

Cris: going with it,

Sidey: whenever, you can. he's,

Dan: he's in the streets in Cork. He's playing football on his own with his friends. Um, and yeah, we, we know how this is gonna end, but we're gonna delve into a little bit of the motivation, the story of, of Roy and what led to this moment where he ultimately decided he couldn't operate

Sidey: Yeah. First of all, it's, it... first sort of interaction is not even with Roy, but it's, it's to do with the politics of football, of club football and international football 'cause M- it's M- Mick and his coach, Mick

Dan: Mick McCarthy Mick,

Sidey: Mick, yeah yeah. And they're in the car, and, uh, Sir Alex phones up, and they're both like, "Oh, fuck," you know? So you can tell that the power dynamic because they're, they are playing second fiddle to Sir

Cris: To Sir Alex Ferguson, yeah

Sidey: And he says... he's just, like swearing at them, berating them straight away like, "This is a fucking shambles. You're a pair of fucking idiots. Uh, Keane's not fucking playing." And they're like, "Okay. Well, we, we're willing to have a discussion about it." He's like, "Fuck off. He's not playing." And basically just hangs up on them. They're like, "Okay." "

Dan: Oh, yeah." Well, this was it. He's injured, he says. And,

Sidey: Yeah. He said, "Would you like us to send, um, someone over to assess him on, uh, you know, from our side?" He goes, "Oh, yeah, that'd be fucking great." "Send someone over to Manchester United. Fuck off." Yeah

Dan: Fuck off." Yeah, they're having none of it. And-

Cris: I'm not gonna lie, the, this, the- It's very English whoever did the voice for Alex Ferguson sounds exactly like him

Sidey: It does say at the start of the film that some of the stuff you're seeing is as reported. Other stuff, they've completely invented characters for it. But I definitely think that this would have

Cris: This would have probably

Sidey: definitely would have

Dan: th- this would've happened, because-

Sidey: imagine there'd be a lot of A- Alex Ferguson would be making a lot of these sort of phone calls.

Dan: Yeah,

Sidey: Giggs, every time Giggs was supposed to play for Wales,

Dan: notorious for not letting his, um, his best players go on international duty, particularly when there were friendlies or they had any kind of niggles, because he was selfish in the sense that he wanted Manchester United to, to win all their games and- They're

Sidey: playing for wages, blah, blah, blah,

Dan: blah ... they're playing the wages, and normally they're competing at the top end of the table for something as well. So Keane's got an injury, and um-

Sidey: um- Well, basically it means he's laid up at home, watching. It's this final qualifying game against Iran. Yeah.

Dan: And he's listening to the, the- Just the chat.

Sidey: Just the chat. His, and it- The chat ... all the chat is wrong. He's like, "No, we're not going there for a point."

Dan: he's shouting it, isn't he? Just

Sidey: going- He, he can't believe. They, they're all saying, "Oh, all we need is a point to qualify." And he's like, "No, you play to win." Yeah. He can't, he cannot get his head around anything other than you give everything for the win. So he's, straight away he's got the arse with the game that he's not even playing in. But it's his country and he wants them to qualify. So they, they go a goal down, and he can't watch

Dan: he can't watch.

Cris: Yeah, he goes in the garden, his missus goes out after him, and she's just like... She, she makes it like... I can't remember-

Sidey: not good. It's not good, Roy.

Cris: not good. It's not good. You're gonna have to go to Saipan." And he's like, "Oh, fuck, I knew it. I... What? What? I have to go to Saipan?"

Dan: But I think they... Did they lose the game?

Sidey: They lost one-nil. The results went the

Dan: went their way. They

Sidey: Yeah. And then McCarthy had then post-match was saying stuff like, "Well, it doesn't matter how you get there. No one cares once you kick the first ball." But Keane cares.

Dan: Like, he's Yeah "

Sidey: No, it's... That's bullshit."

Cris: yeah, because the, the... He's like, "Oh, we, we, we need to get to, to look at the, the people. Congratulations to the team and all that." And Keane's like, "Yeah, but we lost." Yeah. Like, "Well, yeah, but you know..." And, and, and Mick McCarthy just keeps banging on about it, and he's like, "We lost. The results went our way. We lost the game. Well, what are we talking about?"

Dan: And anybody who doesn't know Roy Keane, I mean, he's still on the TV now as a pundit, and his, his standards haven't dropped, even in punditry, in comparing, um, teams' performances and their desire to win. Uh, he, he- Which is

Cris: to say that he's not always right

Dan: He's not always right, but he, he would never say that as well. For, in his mind, he is always right, and he is always a, a kind of point o- a, a winner's point of view- Yeah ... from it. You know, there is no second place. You must prepare or you prepare to fail, all those kind of things.

Sidey: So we, we get a, a countdown, don't we, every so often- Yeah ... on the screen. It's like 20 days to go. Yeah. Blah, blah. So they, they, they go off, but there's a f- there's a sort of few phone calls that go off and, um, it's like, you know, everything has to be just right. You know, we want... We're not going away for a kickaround. This, this is proper, you know? So we get a little snippet of the facilities that they're going to, and there's stones on the pitch or very little grass on

Cris: the guy that's there, he just... There's... When they, when they call him, he's-

Sidey: He goes, "Oh, shit."

Cris: Oh, shit. Well, he's... Yeah, he's just, like, surrounded by girls and bottles of champagne and-

Dan: and- The Irish have been, um, living in a reputation of, you know, everybody loves the Irish. Everybody has a great time with them. They know how to party. They have a good time and everything, and the players have kinda taken a sense of that party atmosphere a little

Sidey: bit- They don't think they're gonna win it- And they're like- ... so they might as well enjoy

Dan: humiliate themselves ... we're not in it... We, being there is- Is the win ... you know, is the win. Yeah. Let's enjoy it. Let's make sure ev- you know. Whereas Keane is actually thinking, "No, we can win this." Like, "I've never been in a competition I don't think we can win. If we prepare right, we should be going- Yeah ... as far as we possibly can." Um, and-

Sidey: and- And what, what is also galling him, I don't know if he's said it yet- But Jack Charlton was the previous manager that had- Yeah taken to a World cup, and now it's Mick McCarthy, who he both he considers to be English, which they are. Well- But Mick

Dan: was. He played for England. Um-

Sidey: McCarthy had at least played for Ireland as well, and

Dan: as well ... through his grandmother and, yeah. His great-grandmother or something. Yeah. I think he had an Irish set-up.

Sidey: he has an Irish cell. Yeah,

Dan: yeah.

Sidey: So that, that's kinda calling him, but then basically we're gonna g- we're gonna get all the way out there. W- but eventually, like, Keane turns up on the, on the team bus, and he straightaway says, "Lads, the work starts now." Yeah. Yeah, 'cause they're all singing anyway. He's like, "No, no, this is it now," and he sort of blanks Mick McCarthy on the way in. Um, and then they fly out, and they're still laughing and joking on the bus. Keane's got his headphones on just trying to, like,

Dan: Get in the zone

Sidey: So- Just trying to not get pissed off, I think. Um, and then when they do eventually get out there, it is a total fucking shambles. Well,

Cris: joke. Well, especially because they get there, and then they don't see the football pitch initially, but it's like, "Oh, lads, tomorrow there's no..." And he kinda hears the whispers of, "We don't have any balls, and we don't have any equipment."

Sidey: don't have any footballs.

Cris: We don't have any footballs and we don't have any kit Well,

Dan: it's a brilliant scene when he goes into the sauna, and Mick McCarthy's in there. And he goes in after the training session, and he says, "Well, yeah, it's, you know, it's not the best pitch. It's a fucking rockery out there, and we haven't got any footballs. And yeah, it would be better if we had balls." Like-

Sidey: it'd be better if we had balls, like." And he says, "Do you talk to Sir Alex like this?" And he goes, "Yeah, I, I would speak my mind, yeah." But he probably- And- ... doesn't have problems like this at

Cris: then they turn the camera and there's two fat blokes just there in the sauna with them.

Dan: just looking at them. Yeah, and they get

Sidey: But I mean, you wouldn't expect that from a Sim one trip. No. Let alone- No ... an international team going to a World Cup. I mean, it's a total fucking shambles. And, and it's- The accommodation is shit. The food is shit.

Cris: This is 2002. Yeah.

Dan: Cheese sandwiches.

Sidey: Dark Ages. This is modern football. This is not 1978- Yeah ...

Cris: Yeah. 2002 in Korea and Japan, Saipan is, is, is, you know, it's a tourist place.

Dan: No, sports science is out the bag by now, you know? Uh- True. Of course ... cheese sandwiches aren't, like, the fuel that you need for 90 minutes of

Sidey: So that's, that's obviously, like, a massive sore point, but also the way the team has conducted themselves. He has a word with one of them at breakfast. He said, "Have a word with the boys because you should be coming down wearing your kit." They're all in, uh,

Dan: Standards. Standards,

Sidey: He goes, "Yeah, we wanna, wanna look like a team, act like a team." And the guy's just looking at him like he's got two heads. He's just

Cris: Especially McAteer. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah, so one, uh, there's, that's it. There's a couple of players, including, um, Jamie McAteer

Sidey: he's got, like, poached egg on toast, where he's got... This... McAteer's got, like, a pla- massive plate of pastries.

Dan: Pastries and, and donuts and, and pancakes and things. But he's also, um, not Irish born. He's, he's qualified to play for Ireland through a grandparent and things. And at one point Keane goes into, um, the, this team meeting, and it might be a little bit later on, um, in the film, but he really lets Mick McCarthy have it in both barrels, and he pulls up the fact that he ain't... And I think he loses a few of the players here

Sidey: because- Well-

Cris: bit towards

Sidey: that's at the end 'cause he said it to the journalist. He said it a- and she said she wouldn't publish it till after the w- the tournament. But he... So he quits now. I di- I'd forgotten about this, or didn't even know this. He, he quits first- Yeah ... and there's a big falling out. A, a big falling- 'Cause he said- But they're able- "I

Cris: miss home. Yeah. This is not the environment I want to be in. It's hot. We don't have footballs. We, the lads are pissing me off. Everything is below standards.

Sidey: And they, they were able to... A lot of guys, with a lot of convincing, make him, convince him to stay. And they... Actually, Fergie, Fergie phones him and says, he says, "You know, you, you'll be... You'll regret it if you come home.

Dan: It's the World Cup, Roy

Cris: "Think

Sidey: about your family. They're gonna get a load of fucking pelters, you know. You should stay." And so he, he does actually, not necessarily tail between his legs, but he agrees to stay on, as long as probably certain conditions are

Cris: they do have a nice little thing with all the lads when they do the cloche thing with the food. When he normally orders eggs on, on toast, and then they get the... He lifts the cover and it's

Dan: and- and there's cheese sandwiches ... yeah, they take the piss and he can take a joke and- And

Cris: and he can take the joke, so it's quite, that's quite funny in a way, but-

Dan: And kinda training eventually has some balls in that they improve a little bit and there's a, there's a little kind of, you know, green shoots of improvement there. But, um, it's still not at the

Cris: all this, there's a wedding happening at the venue that, like, this is a hotel where-

Sidey: it's- It's not, it's not closed off just

Cris: they still have people coming in for weddings and celebrations and stuff. In and out all the time. And, and some of the players get invited to the wedding, and they're just there drinking with the people that have the

Dan: Yeah. We're two weeks- And- ... before kickoff or, or something in the

Cris: the World Cup for the World Cup. So there's stuff like that happening-

Dan: The Irish are having a ball though, aren't they? Yeah.

Cris: and every

Dan: And the manager doesn't care.

Cris: yeah,

Dan: He's in... He's there having a

Cris: there having a drink with them ... he's there having a drink with them. Yeah. So it's, for, for him to look on the balcony and just see the tables laid out and people partying and that, and

Sidey: He's basically gone again, hasn't he? He's like, "We are just gonna make fools of ourselves." So he, he ends up just sitting on his own. And a, a journalist that we've seen a few times- Yeah,

Cris: this lady

Sidey: journalist comes along and she, she sort of says, "Oh, all those other journalists are idiots but you can trust me." You know, and he starts speaking to her. He says, "Look, you can say what you want. I'm not gonna... I won't publish anything till after the tournament." So we don't see what he says,

Dan: but we

Sidey: about it the next team meeting because then Mick McCarthy stands up and says, um, "Right. Boys, something's happened."

Dan: something's happened." Well, he, he shows the newspaper, doesn't he?

Sidey: out, and he reads out a few of, um, Keane's comments, which are fucking scathing about his fellow, you know, his teammates. Yeah. Um, and he just stands up and says, "You should have this, we should have this conversation, man, you know, behind closed doors." He says, "No, no, you've said it publicly, so, you know, we're gonna have it out." And, um, Keane says, "Fine, I stand by everything I said. I'm- I've got nothing to apologize for. Everything I said in there is true." And then he really loses it. He calls him a fucking cunt. Yeah. Um, it is super

Dan: g- I- I mean, this, this is where, uh- And

Sidey: And I do believe that this is probably how it went

Dan: it went down

Cris: Yeah. So this, this is where, uh- And I do believe that this is probably how it went down Well, that's what they said, that the, that you can shove your

Sidey: apparently the

Cris: an expression that he

Sidey: actually used. He's

Cris: He's like, "I never trusted you, you're a cunt, and you can shove your World Cup up your bollocks."

Sidey: player, you're a no good coach, and honestly you're a no good person. And then I think it was Niall Quinn's like, "You're out of order." And he's... 'cause I think he was about to chin him so- Yeah

Cris: So apparently, apparently those were his exact words, apparently

Dan: Well, Niall Quinn was recently on The Overlap. Um, I don't know if any of this got brought up. I didn't actually watch the episode. But I, I assume that they're still good mates, and he was able... 'Cause obviously since then he went back in, in a assistant manager capacity to, um-

Cris: Well, Niall Quinn was, uh, uh, president or something else- Yeah Sunderland when he was manager at Sunderland. Yeah. So, so they, they've-

Dan: they've- They've

Cris: ironed out the details, I think

Dan: made, um, made amends i- in that, and I think it was one of, you know, Niall Quinn was obviously another... Because not all the Irish lads were... Well, no one was at the level of Roy Keane, but n- not all of them were even in the Premier League or, um-

Sidey: how they got, they got knocked out in the quarters on pens to Spain, so they were doing all right

Cris: They weren't a bad team,

Dan: is it. We, we do get to see Roy in the shower

Sidey: Yeah, you see his dick. Yeah. It's got mighty piece. Nice

Cris: pipe

Dan: him And,

Sidey: Yeah. And, um,

Dan: then we get to see him just k- sort of contemplating, um, you know, the decision he's made. But he's a very strong character and he won't ever admit that he's wrong. He goes back on

Sidey: you think he was wrong? Right, was he right or was he wrong?

Dan: Well, he was wrong, wasn't he? I mean, it wasn't that he was wrong in, um, what he was saying. It was a bullshit set up for the, um, no footballs and lots of the infrastructure that they had to... Yeah, totally, totally he's right on that. But out of his control, all he can do is control on what he can control. He can let his viewpoint be known, and he can try then and drive the team on despite those kind of things and say, "We need to learn from this." And then after the tournament, give both barrels to, um- He wants ... to anybody and everyone and say- Yeah ... we got to the quarterfinals, we got to the semifinals with him. Or, you know, even if they won it, say, "Despite all this, we won it. We were lucky." You know, all, all the rest of it. He had all

Cris: rule number one, this is a team sport Yeah. Yeah You can't be selfish like that in a team sport. It doesn't matter if you're the best player or the worst player, what everyone says in a team sport is you're as good as your weakest player. If your best player is so angry and so opinionated to not try to raise the level of everyone else- I, I, I, again, I like him as a pundit, and I think he's quite funny, and he's, you know, not everyone's cup of tea. But from that point of view, he never played at a World Cup. A, a player so good. Mm. It doesn't matter. It's like Ryan Giggs, the same like all the... He didn't have a great team. He di- If he was Italian, he probably would've won the World Cup twice. He was Irish.

Sidey: Yeah.

Cris: Irish. We have this e- expression back home where you should see the length of your nose. You're Irish. It doesn't matter how good you are. Y- y- you could bring Zidane to the, the Irish.

Dan: And the, the- He's

Cris: one player

Dan: the thing what we'd say about-

Cris: the standards of self, but that's a bit selfish because it's a, it's 11 players plus another six on the bench.

Sidey: Yeah.

Dan: What we'd say about Keane as well is, you know, argui- arguably the best midfielder of, um, in the world at that, at that time, and we had some great midfielders. Not to compare him, you know, apples with apples here, because he was different to a Zidane. He was different. But what he was good at was getting the best out of other players. He was the best out at getting the most out of his teammates, and probably that team needed a Roy Keane figure more than, than ever, because he had that drive, and he could allow them to be their best selves. And they went on, actually did it despite him, um, because as you say, getting to the quarterfinals, getting knocked out by Spain, who, um, who were a top quality team.

Cris: They were a good team, Spain, yeah

Dan: no disgrace. Not the team that went on to, um, to dominate,

Cris: Spain. It wasn't that, but it was still a good team. You know, Raul, Pierro, they, they, it was a-

Dan: Yeah, no. They

Cris: were- ... you know, it was a solid team

Dan: getting knocked out on penalties is, is unlucky, right? You know, it's a bit of a lottery when it, it comes down to it, who, who can hold their, their nerve the best. I've seen the Irish, um- I think it was beating Romania on penalties. Yeah, 1990.

Cris: Romania one time. Yeah, 1990. Yeah. O'Leary, and yeah. Yeah. "What's O'Leary doing taking a penalty?" Yeah. That was the commentary. That was the Irish commentary. Yeah. "That's David O'Leary. What's he doing taking a penalty?" Well, he's

Dan: bending it in the corner- Yeah ... and sending

Cris: and he- That's what he's known for

Dan: Yeah, I remember that. Um, and so, um, Roy goes home. He's, he's on the plane, he's getting interviewed. He's,

Sidey: We do get to see the real sort of snippets of his interview, and he says, "Look, you know, I said what I said. I stand by it, but there was only ever gonna be one winner, and that was Mick. So here I am."

Dan: I am." Yeah. Sort

Sidey: sort of a bit like,

Dan: It, it, it seemed tinged

Sidey: a tinge of regret ... to be regretting it. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. Um, because, right, you know, it is the World Cup, and if he'd had just been able to keep his, you know, tongue

Cris: And towards the end there's another one where Mick calls him.

Dan: him.

Sidey: Yeah. He said, "Do..." Uh, he said, "Well, I've asked you. Do you wanna play?" And he's like, "No. No, not... Can't

Cris: And he, he, he kinda goes again, almost half-heartedly. Yeah. But still almost... I wouldn't have done

Dan: But they'd have put him back on a private jet and flown him back

Sidey: said they had a jet fueled up and waiting on the runway to take him back out, and,

Cris: And he's like, "Do you wanna come back and play?" "Nah."

Sidey: "No."

Dan: he's that kind of character, Roy

Sidey: No, he's never gonna, he's never

Dan: made the decision, he's like, "No, not gonna do it." And he's probably thinking, "Well, I wouldn't have picked up a medal anyway." But what he would've done

Sidey: would have been- I don't know. If you're watching your, your team go out against Spain on pens, you think, "I could have made the difference in that game."

Dan: Oh, he could have done,

Sidey: For sure. Um, but what about the movie? Did you enjoy the movie?

Dan: I did enjoy the movie. Um, I thought, like you, wasn't convinced in the first few scenes that Roy Keane, the actor, was, um, all that he was cracked up to, but absolutely won me over. I thought Steve Coogan was really funny, and, um- He

Cris: sounded like Mick McCarthy as well

Dan: And,

Sidey: I didn't like him in this Really?

Dan: but... Oh, did you not?

Sidey: I thought they made him out to be a real fucking drip, whereas I thought he would be... I thought it'd be, like, two alphas, like, really going. He seemed like- No ... he

Dan: He's- he was, very submissive to- he was very,

Sidey: a back seat to Keane ... a lot of

Cris: And to the Federation. Yeah.

Dan: I- Um,

Sidey: so I d- I wasn't won over with Coogan in this. But the

Dan: Mick McCarthy is, is kind of that dour, you know, he was like, "No." You know, "No." You know, "No, that's not it."

Cris: it." Oh, yeah, he can.

Dan: with his... Was it Sandra, his wife, or- Yeah Susan, you know? And she, it... They would just end up talking about the bulbs in the garden, and the fence needed

Cris: the windows and painting the... yeah

Dan: That just brought it, you know, that reality of all this h- high, um, news and, and big kind of stories and everything, uh, high profile, um, was just actually, you know, he's just a, a northern lad. Um, and he had that kind of... He brought them together. He, he did really well with a team that actually overachieved, um, considering the size of the nation, the players they had, and the, the kind of start that they- The quality ... they went through. But

Cris: kind of improve. But

Dan: I have total sympathy as well for somebody from Roy Keane, who's come from a team who has everything, you know, the sports scientists, the food, the preparation at United and all the rest of it, and he's coming, and they're, they're playing on, like, rocks, and they haven't even got footballs

Sidey: I mean, how can you not have footballs?

Dan: it's a

Cris: That's... I, honestly, I don't get it. H- whoever,

Dan: I...

Cris: um, Romania is not the most advanced nation in the world. We didn't make it to the 2002 World Cup, but we made it to '94, which was, you

Sidey: he took some footballs with

Cris: When Jersey and footballs were the issue. We had footballs there in America.

Sidey: if Jersey go away, they'd have footballs. Do you know what

Cris: when, when- Yeah ... Jersey plays in with the Marathas or the Bulls, the Jersey Bulls, right, they play in the 10th division or 11th division in the pyramid of English football. They go to England to play every other week.

Dan: Well- we go- They get bulls with them we go to Sim One, like, you know, and, uh, our local team, more on the ones. Um, you've got a football, um-

Sidey: It's, it's quite key

Dan: it's quite key i- in games. So, uh, sympathy for Keane, think he's probably, um, regrets it more than any other player who actually did go there, um, had a few beers, and maybe only got to the quarterfinals. I think still Keane regrets it more by not going, um, at all.

Cris: he claims he doesn't, but again- I, I think- Would you believe

Dan: from him?

Cris: I think- Would you say... I, I thought it was filmed quite dark, though.

Dan: I

Cris: I don't know if that was on purpose or not.

Sidey: Mm.

Cris: But even when the, the... It's maybe where, how, how I've seen it, because I've seen it on the plane. I've seen it on my-

Sidey: Oh, okay. Yeah ... on the plane.

Cris: and, uh, the, the way it's been shot, even the images in the daytime, it just looks, like, dark.

Sidey: Quite dark, yeah.

Dan: yeah. Uh,

Cris: I don't know if, if that's on purpose or if it's just the lighting.

Dan: Well, o- o- one of the, the things that I liked about the film, it didn't select a side so much as allow you to select your side. It, it tried to deliver it as balanced as possible. So it told the story as, as a fact there, and this is what we know, and they embellished some areas of course, but they weren't for me going, "McCarthy was right," or, "Keane was right." Yeah, yeah, yeah. They just-

Cris: You make your

Dan: mind up ... which is why I thought it was a good question, Sidey, sort of what do you, what do you think of who is right and who's wrong? Because the film didn't answer that for me. It was no definitive

Sidey: Kevin Kilbane, who was sat next to Keane when he started going off, um, he publicly called the film cartoonish and said there were too many inaccuracies, and recommended the audience know what really happened before watching. So it's casting a bit of doubt on it, but I'm pretty sure Keane did fuck a loses,

Cris: Oh,

Sidey: his

Cris: definitely that, yeah.

Sidey: Oh, I think that, yeah.

Dan: Yeah. Maybe it wasn't, it wasn't close to the... what he actually said.

Sidey: So what do we think?

Dan: Strong recommend for me.

Cris: yeah. Strong, strong

Dan: It's a goal!