Midweek Mention... Saipan

SPEAKER_01 0:12

We are recording. We are now recording, yeah. Outside. We're outside and recording. Is it the first time we've ever recorded outside, is it? I mean we've recorded in a few different locations over the years. But never outside. But never outside. We've been at Sidewall Towers. Yeah. The man cave obviously has been a a steady venue for the past few years. What else have we done? Project 52. Project 52, yeah. We've done that. We've been away on tour. We did one in Pete's spare room anything, his garage annexes. We've done online. But the first time outside in the in Man Cave Manor, really, in the um in the garden. Where we've got a giant Echium with I don't know, a million bees. Yeah. And Side's got his Save the Bees t-shirt on, which is particularly apt. Yes. Are we all walking Cassios? I know you've got an F. No, I've got my I've got my smartwatch on today. I've gone for the GBD500, but it's glorious actually. We've had the hottest day of the year, 34 degrees.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

I've been to the I've been at the beach today.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Too hot?

SPEAKER_02 1:33

No. No. No. Loving it. Yes, man. Oh look, I'm from Romania, right? We've uh I've been here for what 12-13 years. We don't have a proper summer in Jersey. When we like rarely, right? A full summer. Back home we have four I have four seasons. You have cold in the winter, snow, you get spring, proper spring, then you get summer, scorching, then you get autumn, leaves go and rain and all that, and then and it goes again. In Jersey, you get six months of rain and wind. Yeah. Now that it's this glorious sunshine, and we can wear flip-flops and just Yeah, no, I'm not I'm not complaining about it. Whoever says, oh, it's too hot. Look, I get it. You have to you have to go to work. But guess what? So do people in Spain, so do people in Morocco, so do people in Italy, so do people in Portugal. When we go on holiday to Portugal, we think, oh my god, it's lovely. Yeah. Because you don't have to go to work, you're just on holiday.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

But it's been particularly nice because it is a bank holiday weekend. Exactly. And we've obviously had a lot of the the football on, which we're not going to talk about too much in regards to the sad, sad times of the mighty, mighty hammers being relegated to divisions below us. Um I see you've even taken the two hammers off the outside bar. That was yeah, that wasn't me. But yeah, it's all a signal, isn't it, to sad times. This movie that we're reviewing, Saipan, I mean it's sad times in Irish football in many ways. Yes, I would say so. I watched the the trailer of this Saipan, so this is the story. Well, you nearly nominated it a couple of times.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Yes. So that's why I thought I'll just put it on.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Well, I'd seen it. Or in the run-up to the World Cup. We're in the run-up to the World Cup. The England squad just got announced. The Romanian squad didn't have to get announced. No. Um Republic are in it on the No. We've got the the the Scots are the only team that made it, I think. Yeah, and uh Home Nation. St. George.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

The winner the the eventual winners, yeah. Yeah, the home of yeah, whatever. Okay, so this is uh most people well if you follow football, you'll you'll have known this story, I suppose if you're a certain age.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Yeah, and if you like Steve Coogan, you may have been aware of the fact that he made this film recently.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Yeah, so this is twenty twenty-five. It's Saipan, and it is the story of the Republic's build-up to Japan and Korea. Yeah, 2002 World Cup. And the bust up between Roy Keane and Mick McCarthy. How do you pronounce the actor's name? I was gonna ask exactly that.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

It's because it's Ina, but Ian? Is it Ian?

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Ian Yana E-A-N-N-A. But as an accent on the E.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

I apologise to any Irish people.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Well just call him Roy Keane, because I don't know how to pronounce him either. At first, when I first saw him on screen, I was like, mm, I don't like him as a as a Roy Keane proxy. You grew into it. He really did grow. Yeah, he did. When he started getting angry, then he he was it was good. Yeah. So we get first of all, like they they tell you straight away because you get loads of news real footage about the incident, the actual, you know, when the news broke at the time, it's the real stuff. Interspecially some other stuff, but essentially telling you that there's there's a bit of fallout and Roy King's like been the World Cup off. The biggest tournament you can play in as a footballer.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

At the peak of his powers, really.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's gibbed it.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Well i in in very simple words, yes, yeah. Yeah. And but we we're gonna now explain.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

But it does start the reasons why it goes back when he's playing in a field. It's in a street that shitty old football that we all used to kick around in the street. Yeah. It's got virtually no leather on it or no plastic left on it, but he's still going with it.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

He's in the streets in Cork, he's playing football on his own with his friends, and yeah, we we know how this is gonna end, but we're gonna delve into a little bit of the motivation, the story of of Roy and what led to this moment where he ultimately decided he couldn't operate.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Yeah, first of all, it's it we first sort of interaction, it's not even with Roy, but it's it's to do with the politics of football, of club football, and international football, because it's Mick and his coach Mick McGill. It's still Mick's, yeah. And they're in the car and Sir Alex phones up and they're both like, oh fuck, you know, so you can tell that the power jump now because they're a they are playing second fiddle to Sir Alex Ferguson, yeah. And he says he's just like swearing at them, berating them straight away, like this is a fucking shambles, you're a pair of fucking idiots. Keen's not fucking playing. And they're like, Okay, well, we're willing to have a discussion about it. He's like, fuck off, he's not playing. And basically just hangs up on them, they're like, Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Well, this was it, he's injured, he says.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

And um would you like us to send someone over to assess him on you know from our side? He goes, Oh yeah, that'd be fucking great. Send someone over to Manchester United, fuck off.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah, they're having none of it.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

And I'm not gonna lie, the the whoever did the voice for Alex Ferguson sounds exactly like him.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

It does say at the start of the film that some of the stuff you're seeing is as reported, other stuff they've completely invented characters for it. But I definitely think that this would have definitely definitely would have happened. This would have passed us out because you imagine there'd be a lot of Alex Ferguson would be making a lot of these sort of phone calls. Yeah, Alex Ferguson. Every time Giggs was supposed to play for Wales.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Notorious for not letting his his best players go on international duty, particularly when they were friendlies or they had any kind of niggles because he was selfish in the sense that he wanted Manchester United to to win all their games.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

They're playing the wages, blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

They're playing the wages, and normally they're competing at the top end of the table for something as well. So Keene's got an injury, and which basically it means he's laid up at home watching it.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

It's this final qualifying game against Iran. Yeah, and he's listening to the the Just the chat. Is it all the chat is wrong? He's like, We're not going there for a point.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

He's shouting it, isn't he?

SPEAKER_00 7:43

He's just going to He can't believe they're all saying all we need is a point to qualify, and he's like, No, you play to win. Yeah, he cannot get his head around anything other than you give everything for the win. So he's straight away the arse with the game that he's not even playing in. But it's his country and he wants them to qualify. So they think they go a goal down and he can't watch.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

No, he goes in the garden, his missus goes out after him, and she's just like she she makes it like I can't remember. It's not good, it's not good, you're gonna have to go to Saipan. And he's like, Oh fuck, I knew it. What? Well, I have to go to Saipan.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

But I think they've did they lose the game? They lost one results when they went their way.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Yeah, so then McCarthy had then post matches saying stuff like, Well, it doesn't matter how you get there, no one cares once you kick the first ball, but Keene cares, like he's like, No, it's that's bullshit.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Well, yeah, because uh the it's like oh we we we need to get uh to look at the the people, congratulations to the team and all that. And Keene's like, we lost. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but you know, and in and Mick McCarthy just keeps banging on about it, then he's like, We lost, the results went our way, we lost the game. Well, what are we talking about?

SPEAKER_01 8:44

And anybody who doesn't know Roy Keane, I mean he's still on the TV now as a pundit, and his his standards haven't dropped even in punditry in comparing teams' performances and their desire to win each other doesn't sound always right. He's not always right, but he he would never say that as well. In his mind, he is always right, and he is always a a kind of point of a winner's point of view from it. You know, there is no second place, you must prepare or you prepare to fail, all those kind of things.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

So we we get a countdown down every so often on the screen, it's like 20 days to go. Yeah. So they they they go off, but there's a f there's a sort of few phone calls that go off, and it's like you know, everything has to be just right, you know. We're not going away for kick around, this this is proper, you know. So we get a little snippet of the facilities that they're going to, and there's stones on the pitch, or very little grass on the wall.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

Well, the guy that's there, he just there's when they when they call him, he's He goes, Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Well he's yeah, he's just like surrounded by girls and bottles of champagne and the Irish have been living in a reputation of you know, everybody loves the Irish, everybody has a great time with them, they know how to party, they have a good time and everything, and the players are kind of taking a sense of that party atmosphere a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

They don't think they're gonna win it, so they might as well enjoy themselves.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

We're not in it. We being there is you know, is the win. Let's enjoy it, let's make sure, you know. Whereas Keene is actually thinking, no, we can win this. Like, I've never been in a competition, I don't think we can win. If we prepare right, we should be going as far as we possibly can. And what what is also galling here?

SPEAKER_00 10:36

I don't know if he's said it yet, but Jack Charlton was the previous manager that the Technical World Cup, and now it's Mick McCarthy, who he both he considers to be English, which they are. Well, Jack McCarthy played for England. But Mick McCarthy had at least played for Ireland as well. Through his grandmother's stepmother or something. I think he had an Irish setter. Yeah. Yeah. Um yeah. So that that's kind of calling him. But then basically, we're gonna get we're gonna get all the way out there. Well, eventually, like Keane turns up on the on the team bus and he straight away says, lads, the work starts now. Yeah, because they're all seeing it anyway. He's like, No, no, this is it now. And he sort of blanks Mick McCarthy on the way in, and then they fly out and they're still laughing and joking on the bus. Keane's got his headphones on, just trying to like ignore it. In the zone. Just trying to not get pissed off, I think. And then when they do eventually get out there, it is a total fucking shambles.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Well, especially because they get there and then they don't see the football pitch initially, but it's like, oh, that's tomorrow. Uh there's no and he kind of hears the whispers of we don't have any balls and we don't have any equipment. I don't have any footballs. We don't have any footballs and we don't have any kit.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Well, it's a brilliant scene when he goes into the sauna and Mick McCarthy's in there, and he goes in after the training session and he says, Well, yeah, it's you know, it's not the best pitch. It's a fucking rockery out there, and we haven't got any footballs.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

And yeah, it would be better if we had balls, like And he says, Do you talk to Sir Alex like this? And he goes, Yeah, I'd I would speak my mind. Yeah. Yeah. But it probably doesn't have problems like this.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

And then they turn the camera and they still phantom blogs there in the sauna window.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Just looking at them and they get out of it.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

But I mean, you wouldn't expect that from a Sim One trip. No. Let alone an international team going to a World Cup. I mean, it's a total fucking shambles. The accommodation is shit, the food is shit.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

This is 2002. Yeah. Cheese sandwiches. This is not the dark ages, it's just modern. It's not 1978. Yeah. Right? Or or or 68. Yeah. 2002 in Korea and Japan, Saipan isn't is it's you know, it's a tourist place. Not backwards.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Sports science is out of the bag by now. Yeah. Cheese sandwiches aren't like the fuel that you need for 90 minutes of football.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

That's obviously like a massive sore point, but also the way the team has conducted themselves. He has a web with one of them at breakfast. He said have a web with the boys because you should be coming down wearing your kit. They're all in a display. Standard, standards. Yeah, we want to want to look like a team, act like a team, and the guys that's looking at him like he's got two heads is just like. Especially Mackiteo.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Yeah, so one there's that's it. There's a couple of players, including McAtee. He's got like post egg on toast, right? He's got this McAteer's got like a plate a massive plate of pastries. Pastries and and donuts and and pancakes and things, but he's also not Irish born. He's he's qualified to play for Ireland through a grandparent and things. And at one point Keene goes into the this team meeting, and it might be a little bit later on in the film, but he really lets Mick McCarthy have it in both barrels, and he pulls up the fact that he ain't and I think he loses a few of the players here because it's a bit towards more time.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

That's that's at the end, because he said it to the journalist, he said it, and she said she wouldn't publish it until after the what the tournament. But so he quits now. I don't I've forgotten about this, or didn't even know this. He he quits first, yeah, and there's a big falling out because he's out of the way.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

This is not the environment I want to be in, it's hot, we don't have footballs, we the lads are pissing me off, everything is below standards.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

And that they're able to a lot of guys with a lot of convincing make him convince him to stay. And they actually Fergie, Fergie phones in and says, says, you know, you'll be you'll regret it if you come home and boy. Think about your family, they're gonna get a load of fucking pelters, you know, you should stay.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

And so he he does actually not necessarily tell between his legs, but he agrees to stay on as long as probably certain conditions of and they do have a nice little thing with all the lads when they do the cloch thing with the food where normally all those eggs on toes, and then they get the he lifts the cover, and there's a load of sandwiches and the channels.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Yeah, they take the piss and he can take it. And he and he can take the joke, so it's quite that's quite funny in a way, but and kind of training eventually has some balls and that they improve a little bit, and there's a there's a little kind of you know, green shoots of improvement there, but still not between all the.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

This is a hotel where it's not closed off just for the yeah. They still have people come coming in for weddings and celebrations and stuff, and and some of the players get invited to the wedding, and they're just there drinking with the people that have the wedding.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah, we're two weeks before kickoff or or something in the world. Before the World Cup.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

So there's stuff like that happening. The Irish you're having a ball lower. And and every night and the manager doesn't care. Yeah, he's in he's there having a drink. So it's for for him to look on the balcony and just see the tables laid out and people partying and that and he's basically gone again, hasn't he?

SPEAKER_00 15:34

He's like, We're just gonna make fools of ourselves. So he he ends up just sitting on his own and a journalist that we've seen a few times comes along and she she sort of says, Oh, all those other journalists are idiots, but you can trust me, you know.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

And he starts speaking to her, he says, Look, you can say what you want, I'm not gonna I won't publish anything until after the tournament. So we don't see what he says. But we hear about it at the next team meeting because then Mick McCarthy stands up and says, Right, boys, something's happened. Well he he shows the newspaper, doesn't he? He's gonna put a newspaper out and he reads out a few of Fakine's comments, which are fucking scathing about his fellow teammates. Yeah. And he just stands up and says, You should have this, we should have this conversation, man, you know, behind closed doors. He says, No, no, you've said it publicly, so yeah, we're gonna have it out. And says, Fine, I stand by everything I said. I'm I've got nothing to apologise for, everything I said in there is true, and then he really loses it, he calls him a fucking cunt. Yeah, it's it's fucking aggressive. I mean, this this is where And I do believe that this is probably how it went down.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

You can shove your wall cup up your bollocks is apparently an expression that he actually used. He's like, I never trusted you, you're a cunt, and you can shove your wall cup up your bollocks.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

You're no good player, you're no good coach, and honestly, you're no good person. And then I think is it Nial Quinn's like, you're out of order, and then I think he was about to chinish. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

So apparently, apparently those were his exact words. Apparently.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Well, Niall Quinn was recently on the overlap. I don't know if any of this got brought up. I didn't actually watch the episode, but I assume that they're still good mates and he was able because obviously since then he went back in in a assistant manager capacity to Well Niall Quinn was president or something else in Sunderland when he was manager or something. So they they've obviously made made amends in that, and I think it was one of you know Nial Quinn who was obviously another because not all the Irish lads were well, no one was at the level of Roy Keane, but not all of them were even in the Premier League or But then they showed yeah, they got they got knocked out in the quarters on pens to Spain, so they were doing all right.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

This is it.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

We we do get to see Roy in the shower.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Yeah, he sees Dick.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

He's got a mighty peace. Nice pipe on him. And and then we get to see him just c sort of contemplating, you know, the decision he's made, but he's a very strong character and he won't ever admit that he's wrong. He goes back on.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Do you think he was wrong? Right was he right or was he wrong?

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Well, he was wrong, wasn't he? I mean it wasn't that he was wrong in what he was saying, that it was a bullshit set up for the no footballs and lots of the infrastructure that they had done. Yeah, totally, totally he's right on that. But out of his control, all he can do is control on what he can control. He can let his viewpoint be known and he can try then and drive the teen on despite those kind of things and say we need to learn from this, and then after the tournament, give both barrels to to anyone and everyone, and say, Yeah, we got to the quarterfinals, we got to the semi-finals with him, or you know, even if they won it, say despite all this, we won it, we're lucky, you know, all the rest of it.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

He adds and also rule number one this is a team sport, yeah. Yeah, you can't be selfish like that in a team sport. It doesn't matter if you're the best player or your worst player, what everyone says in a team sport is you're as good as your weakest player. Yeah, if your best player is so angry and so opinionated to not try to raise the level of everyone else I look, I I again I like him as a pundit and I think he's quite funny, and he's you know, not everyone's cup of tea. But from that point of view, he never played at the World Cup. A player so good, it doesn't matter, it's like Ryan Giggs, the same like all the he didn't have a great team. He did if he was Italian, he probably would have won the World Cup twice, but he was Irish. We have this expression back home where you should see the length of your nose. You're Irish, it doesn't matter how good you are. You could bring Zidane to the the Irish, and there's only one player. The thing what we would say is to set the standards of self, but that's a bit selfish because it's a it's 11 players plus another six on the bench. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

What we'd say about Keene as well is you know, argu arguably the best midfielder of in the world at that at that time, and we had some great midfielders, not to compare him, you know, apples with apples here, because he was different to a Zidane, he was different, but what he was good at was getting the best out of other players, he was the best out of getting the most out of his teammates, and probably that team needed a Voiking figure more than than ever because he had that drive and he could allow them to be their best selves. And they went on actually did it despite him, because as you say, getting to the quarterfinals, getting knocked out by Spain, who who were a top quality team. They were a good team, Spain, yeah. It was no disgrace, not the team that went on to to dominate the Spanish.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

It wasn't that, but it was still a good team. They were Raul, Vierro, they it was a Yeah, no, they were they were a fantastic team, and getting knocked out on penalties is is unlucky, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:39

You know, it's a bit of a lottery when it it comes down to it, it's who who can hold their nerve the best. I've seen the Irish, it was beating Romania one time. Yeah, 1990.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

O'Leary and yeah. Yeah. What's O'Leary doing taking a penalty? Yeah. That was the commentary. That was the Irish commentary. Really? That's David O'Leary. What's he doing taking a penalty? He's bending it in the corner, and he knocked Romani out.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Yeah, I remember that.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

And so Boy goes home, he's he's on the plane, he's getting interviewed, he's we do get to see the real sort of snippets of his interview, and he says, Look, you know, I said what I said, I stand by, but there was only ever going to be one winner, and that was Mick. So here I am. Yeah. It's sort of a bit like maybe a tinge of regret, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Yeah, because right, you know, it is the World Cup, and if he'd have just been able to keep his you know, tongue in the room.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Towards the end, there's another one where Mick calls him.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Yeah, he says, Do you I said, Well, I've asked you, do you want to play?

SPEAKER_02 21:33

And he said, No, no, no, can't play. And he he he kind of goes again and almost half-heartedly, yeah, but still almost I wouldn't have done that.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Well, they'd have put him back on a private jet and flown around.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

So they said they had a jet fueled up and waiting on the runway to take him back out. And he's like, Do you want to come back and play? No.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

But he's that kind of character. No, he's never gonna he's never gonna get back to the decision. He's like, nah, not gonna do it. And he's probably thinking, Well, I wouldn't have picked up

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Medal anyway, but what he would have done was you watched your team go out against Spain on Penn, do you think I could have made the difference in that game?

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Oh, he could have done, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

But what about the movie? Did you enjoy the movie?

SPEAKER_01 22:10

I did enjoy the movie. I thought, like you, wasn't convinced in the first few scenes that Roy Keane, the actor, was all that he was cracked up to, but absolutely won me over. Steve Coogan was really funny and uh he sounded like Mick McCarthy as a big thing. I didn't like him in this.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

I thought they made him out to be a real fucking drip. Whereas I thought he would be I thought it'd be like two alphas like really going. He seemed like he was very substantial. He was very, very. So I d I wasn't one over with Cooking this.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Mick McCarthy is is kind of that dower, you know, it wasn't. You know, no, that's not it. And there was a few scenes with his was it Sandra, his wife, or Susie, you know, and she it they would just end up talking about the bulbs in the garden and the fences, cleaning the windows and painting. It just brought it, you know, that reality of all this high news and and big kind of stories and everything. High profile was just actually, you know, he's just a a northern lad and he had that kind of he brought them together. He he did really well with a team that actually overachieved considering the size of the nation, the players they had and the the kind of start that they went through. But I have total sympathy as well for somebody from Roykin who's come from a team who has everything, you know, the sports scientists, the food, the preparation at United and all the rest of it, and he's coming and they're they're playing on like rocks and they haven't even got footballs. I mean, how can you not have football?

SPEAKER_02 23:50

It's it's a I honestly I don't get it. How whoever I Romania is not the most ad advanced nation in the world. We didn't make it to the 2002 World Cup, but we made it to '94, which was sure you took some footballs with you. We had footballs there in America. I'm sure if Jersey go where there's a football stuff, yeah. You know, when when when Jersey plays in with the Maratis or the Bulls, the Jersey Bulls, right, they play in the 10th division, 11th division in the pyramid of English football. They go to England to play every other week. We get balls with them.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

We go to Simp 1, like you know, and our local team uh more than the ones. You've got a football. He's quite key in games. So sympathy for Keane, I think he's probably regrets it more than any other player who actually did go there, had a few beers, and maybe only got to the quarterfinals. I think still Keane regrets it more by not going.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

Well, he claims he doesn't, but again, would you believe that? I think would you say I I thought it was filmed quite dark though. I don't know if that was on purpose or not. But even when the the is maybe where how how I've seen it, because I've seen it on the plane, I've seen it on my tablet on the plane. And the way it's been shot, even the images in the daytime, it just looks like dark. Quite dark, yeah. I don't know if that's on purpose or just the lighting.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

W w one of the the things that I liked about the film, it didn't select a side so much as allow you to select your side. It it tried to deliver it as balanced as possible. So it told the story as as a fact there, and this is what we know, and they embellished some areas, of course, but they weren't for me going McCarthy was right or Keane was right. They just you make a right. Which is why I thought it was a good question, Sidey. Sort of what do you what do you think of who was right and who's wrong? Because the film didn't answer that for me. It was no definition.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Kevin Kilban, who was sat next to Keane when he started going off, uh he publicly called the film cartoonish and said there were too many inaccuracies and recommended the audience know what really happened before watching. So it's casting a bit of doubt on it, but I'm pretty sure Keane did fuck and lose his losers.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

So what do we think? Strong recommended.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Strong. Strong.